Postcodes for everyone in Ireland by 2008

Cabaal

So listening to the radio this morning and it seems the Communication Minister wants to introduce postcodes in Ireland in 2008, even though An Post say its not needed. (wtf?)

While I can understand that breaking Dublin, Cork and Galway etc into smaller blocks by using postcodes could be usefull am I the only one who thinks its needless for most of the rest of the country?

Maybe its just the fact I like Ireland not having postcodes, it makes us different

fjon

Just think how easy it will be to fill out online forms!
An Post may say they don't need it, but there are other companies out there that are doing similar jobs to An Post (Couriers for example) who would really benefit from this.
The address:

Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary

Might be ok for An Post who use local postmen, but would be much more difficult for a courier to find. Or even an ambulance for that matter.
I say bring them on - long overdue.

aldous_huxley

Nice to see us join the rest of the developed world on this. I think it is necessary - moreso for urban areas now - but from a futureproofing point of view.
An Post don't want to do it cos they dont want the hassle of setting it up - or the cost.

sprinkles

I can see it now,

So where are you from?

BT342ER

Oh! Do You know Johnny? He lives near there

fjon

Yeah, let's hope they don't adopt the stupid British postcode system. It would be a lot easier to have for example, postcodes like 1001 and 1002 for Dublin city centre.

Tobias Greeshman

I can certainly agree with the arguement for the larger cities being separated with Post Codes, but for the rest of the country, surely all this is likely to do is to confuse everyone. Surely if An Post say its not needed, maybe they're just right, since there the ones who'll be using them.

BuffyBot

While I can understand that breaking Dublin, Cork and Galway etc into smaller blocks by using postcodes could be usefull am I the only one who thinks its needless for most of the rest of the country?

Yeah, because doing it for some places and not for others makes a lot of sense. If it's going to be done, do the whole country and get it done with.

egan007

Dempsey is a dick - he looks for something that is not broken and attempts to fix it - just to be seen to be justifying his job.

Blisterman

Dublin's already split up into d2, d13 etc. Why do we need this? Are they just gonna do that with the other counties?

RobertFoster

There's certainly some confusion when ordering online - "What do you mean you've no house number or street name or postcode!?"

Canis Lupus

fjon wrote:

Just think how easy it will be to fill out online forms!
An Post may say they don't need it, but there are other companies out there that are doing similar jobs to An Post (Couriers for example) who would really benefit from this.
The address:

Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary

Might be ok for An Post who use local postmen, but would be much more difficult for a courier to find. Or even an ambulance for that matter.
I say bring them on - long overdue.

True but:
Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary
TP326AB

Still won't explain to a courier that your house is the white one with the big windows and you have to turn left after the bridge and right past the stone gate.

Post codes are only workable for a city street with house numbers. Not the country

Stix

The reason An Post do not advocate the introduction of postcodes nationwide is due to their monopoly. All the major players (such as DHL, UPS, FedEx) have computer logistic systems based on postcodes. Without postcodes it is impracticle for them to operate. Their computers recognise alphanumeric entries. Of course the systems would recognise placenames too but in many rural communities, addresses become colloquial. So a place between Ballygobackwards and Killabog might be known as Lynch's Meadow loacally, but the sophisti-ma-cated do-whacky can't account for this, or other local knowledge. An Post, thru all it's years of widsom, have come to know these areas, where as the competition would find it difficult to operate. Do we intorduce the postcodes and subsequently competition into the market, or do we allow An Post to continue to hold it's monopoly ?

the_syco

After lots of sacking, and the first year of not making a loss in a bit, along comes some smeg with an idea to waste that money.

=-=

Oh, and it'll be that some will have 5000 people per post code, some will have 2 + a pig.

Clinical Waste

Canis Lupus wrote:

True but:
Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary
TP326AB

Still won't explain to a courier that your house is the white one with the big windows and you have to turn left after the bridge and right past the stone gate.
Post codes are only workable for a city street with house numbers. Not the country

Maybe country people could start using street signs and house numbers?

Canis Lupus

Clinical Waste wrote:

Maybe country people could start using street signs and house numbers?

If your making a joke then

If you're not making a joke then your idea is most definitely not a workable one.

Blisterman

You mean, houses in the country don't have numbers? Thats ridiculous. How do you find people's houses, from addresses.

Stix

Postcodes usually only cover up to 12 houses maximum. So even with houses that arent on a street or have numbers, (ie those in fields past stone gates) they will be easily located. In fact a post code in a rural area may only refer to one or two houses. This couple with the householders name will make it highly workable.

Canis Lupus wrote:

True but:
Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary
TP326AB

Still won't explain to a courier that your house is the white one with the big windows and you have to turn left after the bridge and right past the stone gate.

Post codes are only workable for a city street with house numbers. Not the country

Gurgle

They've been banging on about this for years, as if it was the most complicated thing ever to figure out.

wtf is wrong with something nice and simple, using area codes / car reg or something.

segadreamcast

It's funny. I believe it was on Saturday afternoon that I read an article about how little mail is sent in Ireland per head. This was, apparently, due to our lack of junkmail which was - in turn - due to our lack of postcodes, thus making it more difficult for 'direct mail' firms to target consumers.

I predicted on that day that a proposal would be put forward to introduce postcodes by the end of 2005 and - much earlier than I expected, I admit - here we are.

Having said that, ignoring the direct mail reason cited above, I do think it makes sense to divide the country into postcodes as in Dublin, despite D5 etc - these areas are generally rather large and often somewhat illogical in a sense, thus, proper postcodes might make more sense.

I presume we would then dispose of D11, D9, D12 etc?

billy the squid

Wonder how long it will take the poshies to moan about being put in the wrong postcode, or being put in the same postcode as a corpo estate.

segadreamcast

billy the squid wrote:

Wonder how long it will take the poshies to moan about being put in the wrong postcode, or being put in the same postcode as a corpo estate.

Bingo. There's your main problem. It's inevitable that the house which I live in will be lumped in with Ballymun or Finglas but...*shrug*... it's not as if I'll be selling the house, so it's hardly a problem for me - however, I can see many not being overtly thrilled about the prospect.

Chalk

itll just be crap anyway and you all know it.

for example -
wexford town would be WX01 or whatever and anything outside would WX02.

theyll do that for the whole country to separate towns from the countryside.
makes no difference to anyone, except we have postcodes that conform to the international standard

Blisterman

The english ones are a bit stupid. They're really hard to remember.

billy the squid

Ballymun 90210

Dublin 26 er, I mean Dublin 6W will have to go. wasn't it the yuppies wanted a low post code as higher ones were below their status.

yossarin

i call #0001

fjon

billy the squid wrote:

Wonder how long it will take the poshies to moan about being put in the wrong postcode, or being put in the same postcode as a corpo estate.

Bye bye D4
Although currently this is also the case - Irishtown and Ringsend share the D4 postcode with Donnybrook, Sandymount and Ballsbridge. Killiney is right next to Ballybrack...

billy the squid

might also have to do with helping all those decentralised civil servants feel more at home out in the sticks. having an office in an area with a postcode.

Although currently this is also the case - Irishtown and Ringsend share the D4 postcode with Donnybrook, Sandymount and Ballsbridge. Killiney is right next to Ballybrack...

but I don't think Ballybrack is in D4 far as I know ballybrack doesnt have a post code. its just Ballybrack County Dublin.

Alun

Canis Lupus wrote:

True but:
Seamus O'Mahoney
Pine Cottage
Co. Tipperary
TP326AB

Still won't explain to a courier that your house is the white one with the big windows and you have to turn left after the bridge and right past the stone gate.

Post codes are only workable for a city street with house numbers. Not the country

But given a properly indexed GPS satnav system he'll be able to type in TP326AB and get to within shouting distance of the place without having to ring anybody up at all.

Plus may I point out that they have post codes in the US which, as I recall, contains quite a lot of "country".

rugbug86

Alun wrote:

But given a properly indexed GPS satnav system he'll be able to type in TP326AB and get to within shouting distance of the place without having to ring anybody up at all.

Plus may I point out that they have post codes in the US which, as I recall, contains quite a lot of "country".

we had satnav in a hirecar in america and it was brilliant. think the postcode thing would be an asset to us. pizza will arrive quicker

fjon

A post-code system based on GPS co-ordinates idefinitely the way to go. Very little maintenance involved after the initially mapping. Once a new village/ town springs up it can be slotted into an existing co-ordinate grid. The grids can be as big or small as needed.
But of course seeing as An Post are going to have a big part in the implementation they will probably use a postman's walking route as the basis for the postcodes.
Some more info HERE. The Word doc has some interesting things in it.

Canis Lupus

Stix wrote:

Postcodes usually only cover up to 12 houses maximum. So even with houses that arent on a street or have numbers, (ie those in fields past stone gates) they will be easily located. In fact a post code in a rural area may only refer to one or two houses. This couple with the householders name will make it highly workable.

Do you live in the country? Taking where I live I cannot see in a million years how a postcode system would make it easier to locate a house.

To answer Blistermans question if you need to find a house you call em and ask them for specific directions

Or you ask someone everyone knows everyone in the country

Tar.Aldarion

Canis Lupus wrote:

Do you live in the country?

Or you ask someone everyone knows everyone in the country

tis' true me lad

and to the guy that said how do you find peoples houses from the address lol!

Blisterman

Well I understand you can find the road from a map, but without numbers, how are you supposed to know which part of the road, they're on?

Mossy Monk

i like this idea (if its done correctly)

DHL always have problems finding my house in Dungarvan

fjon

Blisterman wrote:

Well I understand you can find the road from a map, but without numbers, how are you supposed to know which part of the road, they're on?

GPS co-ordinates - it's that simple!

Canis Lupus

fjon wrote:

GPS co-ordinates - it's that simple!

Are there sat nav programmes which include all the little byroads for places like Kerry or even remoter places up the west coast?

Tar.Aldarion

Blisterman wrote:

Well I understand you can find the road from a map, but without numbers, how are you supposed to know which part of the road, they're on?

you get off your lazy ass and "say excuse me where is the ole' petersons place" to a local plus it's usually an phost we will be getting our mail from and they will know which house anyways.

fjon

Canis Lupus wrote:

Are there sat nav programmes which include all the little byroads for places like Kerry or even remoter places up the west coast?

Yes, kind of...
Discussion about this very topic going on here.
While the mapping may not be 100% perfect now, it will be by 2008.
Also, note that even without the mapping GPS is still usable.
I use a GPS for geocaching regularly and have no basemap. I have driven to many arse-end-of-nowhere places with my receiver and have not ever had any problems because I don't have a map. Sure, it does make it easier, but is not stricly necessary. If you give me the co-ords for your house then I can find it - map or no map. And postmen/ couriers/ pizzamen should be able to do the same

DublinWriter

Blisterman wrote:

The english ones are a bit stupid. They're really hard to remember.

You find six digits hard to remember?

The reason they're like that is that you can locate a house almost within 50 meters using the British system.

But what will happen here is that:

a) The Government will throw circa €50 million at some lame big 5 consultancy to work out how to implement the postcodes

b) The Unions won't like it and will probably take industrial action

c) The EU will implement a unified post code system within the next 10 years, making the new Irish one obsolete

*sigh*

toiletduck

i like the idea but as has been mentioned the gov will probably fu(k it up

Wertz

DublinWriter wrote:

You find six digits hard to remember?

The reason they're like that is that you can locate a house almost within 50 meters using the British system.

But what will happen here is that:

a) The Government will throw circa €50 million at some lame big 5 consultancy to work out how to implement the postcodes

b) The Unions won't like it and will probably take industrial action

c) The EU will implement a unified post code system within the next 10 years, making the new Irish one obsolete

*sigh*

Yup. Was about to pst the same thing. Thjis will be handed over to some "think tank" at considerable expoense to the tax payer....mulled over for 18 months then implemented arse-about-face and go the way of the electronic voting system, which this minister also had responsibility for.

Yes we probably do need a code system, but we definitely don't need to spend god knows what on implementing it. Will it speed up An Post's delivery timesd? I doubt it. They'd prolly use it as an excuse to throw another 5 cent onto the cost of a stamp...

Alun

I'm not sure whether the system will necessarily speed up An Post's delivery times, local posties usually know everyone on their round anyway, but remember that there are a lot of people who need to find addresses who maybe don't have the degree of local knowledge that the average postman does like couriers and delivery men for example.

Cabaal

Wertz wrote:

Yup. Was about to pst the same thing. Thjis will be handed over to some "think tank" at considerable expoense to the tax payer....mulled over for 18 months then implemented arse-about-face and go the way of the electronic voting system, which this minister also had responsibility for.

..and we all know how much that system is was used

Will it speed up An Post's delivery timesd? I doubt it. They'd prolly use it as an excuse to throw another 5 cent onto the cost of a stamp...

Of course they will, after all they'll have to get money to update all their eqipment so it can deal with the new postcode system

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Sleipnir

Come on, this is Ireland which means that after a few years of "consultation" and "public debate" each house in the country will get a 142 digit alphanumeric code, which the public will only be able to get after making a submission to the data protection commissoner and then Comreg. Oh, you'll have to pay of course.

But you'll need to know your postcode before you can do that.

It doesn't really matter, we'll all ignore it anyway!

crang

Absolute madness. Waste of money

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Wertz

ziggy67 wrote:

Where is the cost? It will make sorting more efficient, saving money

Ah such innocence. Nothing is that simple when it comes to changing the seemingly simplest of things here, especially since the tiger reared it's head.
I'm not arguing that we don't need them...we probably DO need them, but not at the expense of what it will inevitably end up costing...which is ultimately paid for by Mr and Mrs Taxpayer.

Horsefumbler

won't have to make up postcodes when ordering online anymore then...

Blisterman

Will you have to put them on? For example, if I knew my friends house number and street, would I still be able to put that on an envelope and send it to him.

antoinolachtnai

Basically, the issue in Ireland is that there are a lot of ambiguous addresses. They are ambiguous for a number of reasons - lack of street names/numbers, a number of streets, townlands and towns with the same or a similar name, and so on.

As defined by the Universal Postal Union (UPU), a postcode is a ‘unique, universal identifier that unambiguously identifies the addressee’s locality and assists in the transmission and sorting of mail items’. That's what the benefit the postcode will bring.

The postcode doesn't in itself solve all the problems associated with deliveries and locating addresses. However, it makes it much easier for operators and third party solution providers to resolve these problems.

I've been somewhat involved in this process - weblog post here - http://www.eire.com/blogarchives/000230.html .

Best,

Antoin.