Southside DART closure

Victor

http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/timetable_and_route_news.asp?action=view&news_id=447

Extra bus services for closure of DART from June 2005

Weekend closure of DART Southside Stations From June Bank Holiday to September 2005

Bus Service doubled in Bray Area

Dublin Bus are pleased to announce that services on routes 7, 45, 84, 46A and 145 will be doubled every weekend for the duration of the above works.

This enhanced service operates on the above routes between the hours of 0700 and 1900 to ensure that all customers will be accommodated.

In addition a new weekend service will operate from the Post Office, Dalkey to the City Centre (Burgh Quay) on the hour every hour in both directions between 0900 and 2100. This route operates as 7D and does not conflict with the normal Monday – Friday service

Additional Supervisors have been allocated to the affected routes.

Dublin Bus commuter tickets are valid on the enhanced services.

Click on PDF file below for further details.

PDF Document

http://www.irishrail.ie/dart/home/

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=51

Remainder of project
When the Northside works have been completed, remaining work will include the installation of new sidings at Fairview Depot to cater for the expanded fleet, and remaining access facilities at southside stations.

From the beginning of June 2005 to 10/11 September, remaining accessibility works on the Southside will be undertaken, affecting weekend services.

Final works including substation commissioning, and additional sidings at Fairview to cater for the expanded DART fleet will then be completed by the end of 2005, with the overall project set to be completed on time and on budget.

Iarnród Éireann apologises to customers for disruption resulting from this important investment project, which will allow the DART to cater for its record and growing number of customers into the future.

Creamy Goodness

what improvements are they going to make?

was it just me or was i riding the bus more often on the weekends last summer aswell?

Victor

They are completing last years work where they didn't have planning permission to install lifts at some stations (Blackrock and Killiney come to mind).

Chalk

pity they didnt do it for the northside

Victor

Most Northside stations have or don't need lifts (they have ramps).

RuggieBear

well that's just ****ing marvellous....Bray tourist industry is goin to take a second summer of devastation.

Creamy Goodness

RuggieBear wrote:

well that's just ****ing marvellous....Bray tourist industry is goin to take a second summer of devastation.

well at least on the bank holidays they'll be less dub's on the beach we will be able to walk down the promenade with ease

still though if it was any other country they'd probably do this work at night

Victor

Cremo wrote:

still though if it was any other country they'd probably do this work at night

They do, they work from Friday night through to Sunday night, 5-6 shifts in two days.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

Cremo wrote:

well at least on the bank holidays they'll be less dub's on the beach we will be able to walk down the promenade with ease

still though if it was any other country they'd probably do this work at night

tbh, i can't stand the ****ing dublin scum coming out as soon as it's sunny but the kiosks and the bars and rest of the town do benefit from the ****ers

Chalk

Victor wrote:

Most Northside stations have or don't need lifts (they have ramps).

that info you posted is about bus services from what i can see.

Winters

There are signs on a lot of darts telling of the closures inorder to imporove "Accessibility".

They are doing this on the northside with having to rebuild the ramps on both Killester and Harmonstown as they were to steep.

I cant see it taking too long though to make these changes, they are mostly small things like lifts and such.

Chalk

there have been no weekend darts for the past 10 months or so on the northside but there were no extra buses put on.

John R

Chalk wrote:

there have been no weekend darts for the past 10 months or so on the northside but there were no extra buses put on.

Yes there were.

Chalk

where?

my bus service has been cut.

Davey Devil

Extra Buses me arse. They said the same thing last summer but how come everybus I got was packed before we even reached Shankill. I also heard from someone in Irish Rail that the reason they have to come back out this way is cause they did fùck all work in first six months of the closure the last time. Another summer of bull****e.

MrPudding

Solitaryman666 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

They are. What Victor says is what is happening here, in Ireland. Now. They also work all night during the week, from last DART to first DART the following morning (well they did during the last upgrade work anyway.)

MrP

dregin

Yeah, I've seen guys working at Lansdowne station at 2 in the morning in the past.

penexpers

Davey Devil wrote:

Extra Buses me arse. They said the same thing last summer but how come everybus I got was packed before we even reached Shankill. I also heard from someone in Irish Rail that the reason they have to come back out this way is cause they did fùck all work in first six months of the closure the last time. Another summer of bull****e.

That's false. They didn't get planning permission for some of the accessibilty works on the Southside as An Taisce objected to quite a few of them.

LegacyUser

iarnróid eireann are muppets.

Gillo

paperclip wrote:

iarnróid eireann are muppets.

The work has two main objectives A; the extend platform lenght to accomadate trains with more carriage's 9don't want to state the obvious, but that'll allow for more commuters) and B; the improve wheelchair accessabliity.

It's a case of improving the service; if they didn't people would still be calling them muppets.

Trojan

I also call bull on the alleged "extra bus services".

Zulu

gillo wrote:

The work has two main objectives A; the extend platform lenght to accomadate trains with more carriage's 9don't want to state the obvious, but that'll allow for more commuters) and B; the improve wheelchair accessabliity.

It's a case of improving the service; if they didn't people would still be calling them muppets.

They are muppets. It's a disgrace.
Firstly: they could put on more trains. Most other european have suburban trains that are 3-4 carrages. They should just increase the frequency.

Secondly: why does this work have to be done at the weekends? Why not station by station, and/or at night? It's a fu(ken shambles is what it is.

Iarnróid eireann are a national disgrace.

Zulu

Trojan wrote:

I also call bull on the alleged "extra bus services".

Oh, and as for the "extra" bus service. Absolute crap, unless you are calling a secret bus from Tara Street to Portmarnock every 3 hours and service.

MarkoP11

All the overhead wire had to be replaced too as had all the insulators that takes time. There was a legal requirment to replace this wire before it became too worn. This is why the project got moving with little notice

Have a look at suburban trains elsewhere and you will see 8 if not 12 coaches being common place, the 6 coach set up unable to cope

The signalling system limits the number of trains to 12 per hour in each direction, the level crossings make any improvement beyond that difficult, and remember Maynooth, Drogheda, services have to share the same tracks

Due to planning holdups caused by appeals by An Tasice to An Bord Pleanala there are further closures, if you really want to give out go after them

MrPudding

Zulu wrote:

They are muppets. It's a disgrace.
Firstly: they could put on more trains. Most other european have suburban trains that are 3-4 carrages. They should just increase the frequency.

Secondly: why does this work have to be done at the weekends? Why not station by station, and/or at night? It's a fu(ken shambles is what it is.

Iarnróid eireann are a national disgrace.

If you read the thread you would find it mentioned several time that they are, or at least were, working at night. The work is being done during the week starting after the last DART and ending before the first DART the following morning. Work then runs from after the last DART on Friday evening until Monday morning.

I think they run as many DARTs as they can. I there there is an issue with the capacity of the line due to signalling or something.

I don't work for Iarnróid eireann nor do I have any particular love for them. I just find it funny that people slate them for one thing and then slate then again when they try to fix it.

MrP

A Dub in Glasgo

To increase capacity on the DART, they will have to resignal the whole line. Resignalling schemes are costly especially if the Level Crossings have to be avoided (ie close the road or build a bridge)

penexpers

Zulu wrote:

They are muppets. It's a disgrace.
Firstly: they could put on more trains. Most other european have suburban trains that are 3-4 carrages. They should just increase the frequency.

Secondly: why does this work have to be done at the weekends? Why not station by station, and/or at night? It's a fu(ken shambles is what it is.

Iarnróid eireann are a national disgrace.

Firstly : The line is currently operating to capacity in terms of number of trains per hour. The DART upgrade project will allow more trains (25% more I believe) to run and allow longer trains to run. Also your assertion that "Most other european have suburban trains that are 3-4 carriages" is wrong. Taking two examples that I know of Barcelona and Paris, most of them are 10+ carriages long.

Secondly : As has been pointed out the work is being done at night as well as at weekends. It's a pretty major job to replace overhead powerlines etc etc.

IE are far from a national disgrace in terms of this project.

Cianos

With all due respect, I would imagine Iarnroid Eireann know a lot more about upgrading train stations than all the begrudgers. Think about it - having the trains off for so long is obviously putting a dent in their profits. While it is a serious inconveniance for commuters, I can imagine they want the trains running as much as everyone else does.

I would suspect the main problem lies in poor investment/planning when the whole thing was being built in the first place.

Zulu

penexpers wrote:

Also your assertion that "Most other european have suburban trains that are 3-4 carriages" is wrong. Taking two examples that I know of Barcelona and Paris, most of them are 10+ carriages long.

And Sweden, Norway, and Holland operate on the 3-4 carrage system with nore frequent trains. ...and Barcelona dosen't operate suburban trains 10+ carrages. Thats just a lie. I can't speak for Paris, I haven't been there.

IE are far from a national disgrace in terms of this project

No - they're great aren't they. They've half the only rail system servicing our capital city shut down for over a year now. Great job boys.


...shambles.

Zulu

Cianos wrote:

With all due respect, I would imagine Iarnroid Eireann know a lot more about upgrading train stations than all the begrudgers.

You know what they say about assumptions. Lets not forget - this is the same crowd that'll let you book a ticket for a train, but will not gaurentee you a seat. This is the same crowd that services the Dublin-Galway line with "Arrow" trains. This is the same crowd..... the list goes on.

Oh, and bear in mind, that senior managment are practically Civil servents.

Think about it - having the trains off for so long is obviously putting a dent in their profits. While it is a serious inconveniance for commuters, I can imagine they want the trains running as much as everyone else does.

You'd think that - wouldn't you.

I would suspect the main problem lies in poor investment/planning when the whole thing was being built in the first place.

...and whos to blame for that?

MarkoP11

MrPudding wrote:

I think they run as many DARTs as they can. I there there is an issue with the capacity of the line due to signalling or something.

In fact at the moment Iarnród Éireann have too many Dart units, there are about 20 carriages out of service mothballed until they are needed and a further 12 undergoing refurbishment abroad.

Why, they phyiscally can't run any more trains than current the extra stock was ordered to increase to 8 coach lengths. Those coaches where delivered early, on budget and have entered service again early.

We should be thankfull CIE had the cop on the build for 6 coach platforms in the first place, it wasn't until 1995 that the first 6 coach service began, now every rush hour train is 6 coaches, required no engineering works, no one ever imagined the need to go to 8 coaches

The city centre signaling upgrade is next and should cause very little disruption and will bring the operating limit to 16 8 coach trains an hour

penexpers

Zulu wrote:

No - they're great aren't they. They've half the only rail system servicing our capital city shut down for over a year now. Great job boys.


...shambles.

And you would do it differently how?

Zulu

penexpers wrote:

And you would do it differently how?

Well I'd probably study civil engineering for a couple of years firstly, then I'm probably gain some experience in the construction industry. Then I'd probably find out what needs to be done exactly, and I'd close down one station at a time and do it that way. Or, if thats was impossible, do the line segment by segment (not half by half) get all the jobs done the first time round. Pay the contractors enough to get it done quickly (ie: a month/few months 24/7) and have an replacment bus service running.

They're just a few ideas. Debunk them if it makes you feel better but, I'm not a specialist, and I can gaurentee an engineer could come up with more ideas.

Why is it you don't question IE? Why is it you believe they are really breaking their back to provide the best service? and why do you care how I'd do it?

Trojan

MarkoP11 wrote:

Those coaches where delivered early, on budget and have entered service again early

Entered service early only thanks to the skangers who firebombed Fairview depot. Otherwise we'd probably still be crammed into the old carriages, peering out the windows at them as we arrive into Clontarf.

Metrobest

MarkoP11 wrote:

no one ever imagined the need to go to 8 coaches

The city centre signaling upgrade is next and should cause very little disruption

They should have imagined it! Surely it's been staring them in the face for years: conflicts at Connolly, conflicts with diesel trains, and the signaling constraints on the loop line. It would have been prudent to upgrade the signaling before going through the rigmorole of the planning process for the wheelchair access. But IE showed a complete inability to project-manage; and passengers on the DART have to endure more delays, while taxpayers have to fund IE's incompetence and revenure losses. How well does that auger for future, more crucial projects?

The supreme irony is, it is envisaged that there will be only 8 trains per hour through Connolly during peak times once the interconnector is up and running in 2015.

Zulu

Metrobest wrote:

The supreme irony is, it is envisaged that there will be only 8 trains per hour through Connolly during peak times once the interconnector is up and running in 2015.

...shambles.

MarkoP11

Metrobest wrote:

They should have imagined it! Surely it's been staring them in the face for years: conflicts at Connolly, conflicts with diesel trains, and the signaling constraints on the loop line. It would have been prudent to upgrade the signaling before going through the rigmorole of the planning process for the wheelchair access. But IE showed a complete inability to project-manage; and passengers on the DART have to endure more delays, while taxpayers have to fund IE's incompetence and revenure losses. How well does that auger for future, more crucial projects?

The supreme irony is, it is envisaged that there will be only 8 trains per hour through Connolly during peak times once the interconnector is up and running in 2015.

Once again Metrobest tries to spread lies

So you want to continue discrimination against the mobility impaired ? The move to 8 car Darts will give the same capacity increase as the signalling improvements. The DART line was going to be closed anyway to replace the overhead wires so why not extend the platforms while you have the line closed it makes sense

The project is within budget, planning applications where made in May 2003, An Tasice got arkward and an Bord Pleanala held things up

Through Connolly post interconnector
4 tph Maynooth Bray
4 tph Dunboyne Bray
(i.e. combined 8 tph Bray to Connsilla)
2 tph Drogheda
1 tph Belfast
1 tph Sligo

Total 12 in each direction, same as current but with some flexibilty to cope with delays which is not currently in place, could add some Longford services too

Through Interconnector tunnel
6 tph Heuston Airport
6 tph Kildare Drogheda

Effectively twice as many trains per hour through the city centre section than current

Trojan wrote:

Entered service early only thanks to the skangers who firebombed Fairview depot. Otherwise we'd probably still be crammed into the old carriages, peering out the windows at them as we arrive into Clontarf.

The original order was for 36 coaches, a further 4 where added to cover the loss of 4 coaches in the fire. The planned fleet was 154, we now have 154. They entered service early because the folks in Japan built them and shipped them early by about 2 months, can't complain a lot better than the delays you see in the UK

KC61

Zulu wrote:

This is the same crowd that services the Dublin-Galway line with "Arrow" trains.

There is only one train per week operated by ARROW Commuter trains on Dublin-Galway and that is the 1615 Galway-Heuston Sundays Only service.

There is also a return service on Dublin-Limerick that is operated by an ARROW unit on Sundays only.

The simple reason for these being operated by ARROWS is that these units were spare in Inchicore on Sundays (there being no Kildare local services) and IE decided to add additional services on these routes some years ago. These cannot be operated by anything else as every other Intercity train set is in service on Sundays!

Better to have than to have not I would venture!


As for additional buses, despite what some posters may think, there have been additional buses provided from Donnybrook Garage every weekend for the northside routes along the DART line. As to exactly how many I am not sure, but I can confirm that they have been in service. When and where they operate is up to the discretion of the stance inspectors/garage controllers in Clontarf Garage.

As for seat reservations on Intercity services - this is in place for 1st Class services on all routes. It shall later this year be rolled out for all Intercity services for standard class also.

Zulu

trainuser wrote:

The simple reason for these being operated by ARROWS is that these units were spare in Inchicore on Sundays (there being no Kildare local services) and IE decided to add additional services on these routes some years ago. These cannot be operated by anything else as every other Intercity train set is in service on Sundays!

Better to have than to have not I would venture!

Perhaps at a discount rate. But at the price of tickets as they are its a disgrace.

As for additional buses, despite what some posters may think, there have been additional buses provided from Donnybrook Garage every weekend for the northside routes along the DART line.

I've managed to get the Tara-Portmarnock bus once. It didn't stop at any stop untill Portmarnock. I found out about this via word-of-mouth. I have never seen/heard of any other bus service. If IE are providing them, it would be nice if they advertised it. ...but then I wouldn't expect anything else from them. Advertising an alternate might be helpful.

As for seat reservations on Intercity services - this is in place for 1st Class services on all routes. It shall later this year be rolled out for all Intercity services for standard class also.

Thats great. Only how many years late? And will the sell standing tickets I wonder - to accodomate those unfortunate to have to stand the whole way????

enterprise

It really annoys me when people like "zulu" haven't got the slightest clue what they are talking about.

The Portmarnock service is provided by Dublin Bus on private hire to Iarnrod Eireann, the bus operates to meet train arrivals / departures at Portmarnock. If you cared to look you find full details on the IE website and at Tara Street station.

Also regarding weekend shutdowns; IE ISN'T THE ONLY COMPANY THAT SHUTS DOWN PART OF ITS SYSTEM AT WEEKENDS.

For those who don't believe me I refer you to BBC ceefax page 438 for weekend travel changes on the UK National Rail system and Page 436 for details of London Underground's weekend shutdowns on the Met and Jubilee plus some other lines.

Trojan

trainuser wrote:

As for additional buses, despite what some posters may think, there have been additional buses provided from Donnybrook Garage every weekend for the northside routes along the DART line. As to exactly how many I am not sure, but I can confirm that they have been in service. When and where they operate is up to the discretion of the stance inspectors/garage controllers in Clontarf Garage.

Ah, hence we get the logic of "We said 'additional services' so we better put on at least 2 so we're technically accurate in case anyone complains". I didn't see any extra #7s during the southside closure, and I sure as hell don't see more buses serving the Howth Road on weekends. But I'm sure there's at least 2 extra buses, to justify the claim. Rather than claim "additional services", it would be nice to know what those services actually are.

enterprise

DB did provide extra services for the Southside. Phisbourgh and Broadstone provided the extra buses for that.

I saw plenty of extra buses on the 7, 45, 84 and 46A last Summer.

RuggieBear

there were definitely more 45's from Bray

Trojan

You saw one thing, I saw another. Maybe I was just being really unlucky everytime I wanted to get into town on a Sunday from Monks/DL. Or you were really lucky. Or your idea of plenty is quite different to mine. How about publishing temporary weekend timetables showing the extra services?

enterprise

Well I dont have any timetables!

As was already stated, the additional services operate as per directed from the route controller / stance inspector.

RuggieBear

enterprise wrote:

Well I dont have any timetables!

As was already stated, the additional services operate as per directed from the route controller / stance inspector.

which seems a bit haphazard....

MarkoP11

enterprise wrote:

DB did provide extra services for the Southside. Phisbourgh and Broadstone provided the extra buses for that.

I saw plenty of extra buses on the 7, 45, 84 and 46A last Summer.

Certainly where but there was an odd day when there wasn't or more accruatly 15:10-15:45 outbound was always a little dodgy, the 3 come at once game was a little too frequent for me but there clearly where extra buses

Zulu

enterprise wrote:

It really annoys me when people like "zulu" haven't got the slightest clue what they are talking about.

And it really annoys me when people like you defend a crap service. You pay good money for it - demand better.

The Portmarnock service is provided by Dublin Bus on private hire to Iarnrod Eireann, the bus operates to meet train arrivals / departures at Portmarnock. If you cared to look you find full details on the IE website and at Tara Street station.

Yes, very good. Thats what I said. So what? That dosen't substitute the lack of darts. Whats your point? And what about people who use the service who don't have internet access? Bully to them? Helpful IE at it's best.

Also regarding weekend shutdowns; IE ISN'T THE ONLY COMPANY THAT SHUTS DOWN PART OF ITS SYSTEM AT WEEKENDS.

...and that makes it right? They ARE the ONLY company that supply the ONLY rail transport system to the capital of our country serviceing over 1,000,000 people.

For those who don't believe me I refer you to BBC ceefax page 438 for weekend travel changes on the UK National Rail system and Page 436 for details of London Underground's weekend shutdowns on the Met and Jubilee plus some other lines.

I wonder if the whole of the north servicing underground shuts down? I think not.

enterprise

Zulu wrote:

And it really annoys me when people like you defend a crap service. You pay good money for it - demand better.

I am demanding better. We will get a better service out of it. I let you in on a little secret. Ever hear the phase "short term pain for long term gain" ?????

Zulu wrote:

Yes, very good. Thats what I said. So what? That dosen't substitute the lack of darts. Whats your point? And what about people who use the service who don't have internet access? Bully to them? Helpful IE at it's best.

The Portmarnock 32C service is to provide connections into and out of Drogheda COMMUTER services. DART passengers are advised to use Dublin Bus services.

Zulu wrote:

...and that makes it right? They ARE the ONLY company that supply the ONLY rail transport system to the capital of our country serviceing over 1,000,000 people.

Incorrect.. Ever hear of Connex? Get you facts right mate.

Zulu wrote:

I wonder if the whole of the north servicing underground shuts down? I think not.

Thats not the point.

Zaph0d

How on earth could all the overhead line equipment be replaced without turning off the power? Would you fancy that job? How could you build bridges over live power lines?

The Central Line in London shut down for 11 weeks following an accident in Jan 2003. During this time there were no train services whatsoever. It could be worse.