red diesel and car use.

lomb

does anyone know anyone or themselves having a PASSANGER car dipped (not a commercial) a person i know uses the stuff and they say they will never get dipped, they only dip trucks and vans. any truth to this?

Canis Lupus

I've been stopped in my car on two occasions and once it was seen I was petrol I was sent on my way.

I'm pretty sure had it been diesel I'd have been dipped.

mike65

I've only ever been stopped when in a van but so big are the fines that I just would'nt risk it. Ever.

The only figures I can find quicky (from pre euro era) showed an average fine of over 600 pounds.

Mike.

jimmycrackcorm

I've seen cars done in Monaghan and Dublin (N4)

CrowdedHouse

Yes about a month ago near Portlaoise

Thumper Long

a mate of mine regularly travels from dublin to cavan and monaghan and has been dipped a number of times, you'd probably get away with it in dublin but the savings aren't as great.

Our man in Havana

Its a max fine of €1270 for a first offence. They dip everything that is diesel down this neck of the woods. I see them often near Mountrath and on the way into Waterford.

The risks are just too great.

Also do note that the C&E can dip you on private property and they don't need a warrant. The usual way they get ppl is thru snitches.

kasintahan

Bond-007 wrote:

Also do note that the C&E can dip you on private property and they don't need a warrant. The usual way they get ppl is thru snitches.

Entering private property for evidence gathering without a warrent?
I don't know the law but that sounds a bit draconian.

lomb

id say it would be handy to run a dual fuel setup, with a belly tank or a tank that opens into the spare wheel well for marked gas oil and the normal tank for 'road useage'.

i heard truckers were running dual fuel setups in trucks. they had the marked stuff in the refrigorater tanks legally in the back and switched that to tractor use on the road, then theyd still have their main tanks for dipping.

Robbo

lomb wrote:

id say it would be handy to run a dual fuel setup, with a belly tank or a tank that opens into the spare wheel well for marked gas oil and the normal tank for 'road useage'.

Maybe a BAR-esque tank-within-a-tank?

Seriously though, never been dipped or even heard of anyone being dipped and I've been driving diesels around Galway city and county for nearly 5 years now.

Our man in Havana

kasintahan wrote:

Entering private property for evidence gathering without a warrent?
I don't know the law but that sounds a bit draconian.

Thats true they can and they will, they have more powers than the Gardai.

Another piece of info is that they have no power to stop you on the road, thats why they have Gardai with them becuse they can stop you.

lomb

Robbo wrote:

Maybe a BAR-esque tank-within-a-tank?

very clever some clever diy engineering would make that very possible.

leeroybrown

I drive a drive a diesel and have never been dipped. I have once seen a customs dip check in operation. I'd say it very much depends on where you are located and if customs are active at the time.

unkel

The very existence of red diesel in this country :rolleyes:

It's like those 25 tonne American stretch limos that are taxed at €51 per annum for doing 100k miles while a private citizen doing 3k miles in their 3 liter car is paying €1343 per annum...

lomb

actually, i think its green diesel, its cherry red in the uk thats why its known as red diesel, only kerosene is died red in this country, gas oil (aka high sulphur ) diesel is marked green.

i believe its bad for the environment but i persume the stuff gets burnt anyway so thats irrelelvent. a quick google turned up this.... http://www.castlebar.ie/news/article_1183.shtml

says it all realy.

Ba_barbaraAnne

There are regular checks around Mayo and I've been stopped a few times as I've got a diesel car.

The first time I hadn't a clue why, and when they asked me what fuel I had in the tank I -quite innocently - told the customs official that I'd filled up at Statoil! Naturally, they decided I was just a dumb blonde and didn't bother to dip me!
The story must have got around as they've never tried to dip the car since.

lomb

apparantly the dye can be removed quite easily by filtering dyed diesel thru an activated charcoal filter.

Nuttzz

driving a diesel in dublin for the past 3 years and driving in general since the mid 90's never seen a diesel checkpoint

lomb

im sure its possible to insert a one way valve in the fuel tank so diesel flows into the tank but it cant be dipped. toyotas have these as standard. i tried to siphon some fuel out and the tube wouldnt go down at all.then they would leave it at that most probably. anyway nothing would make me drive a diesel not even cheap fuel.

DublinWriter

kasintahan wrote:

Entering private property for evidence gathering without a warrent?
I don't know the law but that sounds a bit draconian.

Believe it or not, Customs have more power than the Guards when it comes to searching - they can enter private property without a warrant.

I wouldn't chance using Red in a car. As well as the red die, there's also a trace chemical used which can screw up a car engine long term. Plus it might be discovered during an NCT.

Gerry

Lomb, you think they haven't seen dual fuel setups? They have seen every possible setup. Its just a case of whether they stop you or not. Anyway, why are you asking if you don't want to drive a diesel?

Squirrel

lomb wrote:

a person i know uses the stuff and they say they will never get dipped, they only dip trucks and vans. any truth to this?

As he said Gerry, a person he knows does it

Our man in Havana

lomb wrote:

apparantly the dye can be removed quite easily by filtering dyed diesel thru an activated charcoal filter.

But you won't remove the chemical marker. This will be found in analysis by the lab.

BrianD

But sure don't the provos have to use all sorts of chemicals to remove the dye creating a load of toxic waste dumps in the process?

Would there be a technicality on using red diesel that is bought outside of the State? The Government wouldn't be getting any tax from it in any case?

Capt'n Midnight

You'll all forgetting this is REVENUE. Which judging by the powers and fines is treated far more serious than violent crime - bit like land and property law really.

In the past they used to remove the red colour in diesel by filtering through a loaf of bread.

I'd reckon they'd be able to do you for have "marked" gas oil in your tank and not worry too much wether it was marine diesel , ag diesel, waste chipper oil , filtered sump oil or which country it came from - once you don't have tax paid fuel in the tank - gotcha

crazymonkey

I know 2 ppl useing it, for yrs now they say they were never stopped,
As far i know, c&e dont need to dip the tank anymore they use a sort of liticus paper on the exshust to find the marker in the diesel,,

apperently using green diesel has no effect on the engine whatsoever, and the nct dont check for it so that doesn't count, but it is a heavy fine so would not risk it myself, would need to do alot of driving to save the E1270 plus,,

Our man in Havana

All you need is a jealous neighnour to ring the customs squealer line and they will come round your house to dip you.

Gerry

I know someone who was using the diesel from his home heating in his car. It worked fine, until he was caught. He was a high ranking guard, but that didn't stop him.

Everyone knows of someone who uses it. I'm sure many get away with it. So the question is, is it right? If you think it is, hopefully you haven't been critical of anyone with offshore accounts, might be a little hypocritical.

Victor

kasintahan wrote:

Entering private property for evidence gathering without a warrent? I don't know the law but that sounds a bit draconian.

The constitution protects your home, not your land.

crazymonkey

After reading this thread yesterday, i stopped in my local garage on the way home, it sells white diesel (car Diesel) for E103.9 and green (agri) for E59.9, thats a 44c per ltr difference, the shop keep told me that the difference in price is just the tax level, Can this be soooo, it seem's extreme to me

css

kasintahan wrote:

Entering private property for evidence gathering without a warrent?
I don't know the law but that sounds a bit draconian.

It's tax evasion. C&E have scary powers, try blocking them and you end up in court quicker than you will even realise..

They dip everything, but using red/green diesel will not harm an engine as it is just a dye. getting washed diesel in your engine will however fook it up pretty quickly.. as the chemicals used include acids. (sulphuric). They can also test using the exhaust, and they do this in towns, I have heard of a few people who arrived back at their car to be asked to open the fuel tank so it could be dipped. They need the tank sample as evidence, as the exhaust test is not admissable. Jaysus you'd swear I knew someone who does this kinda stuff.. :rolleyes:

jhegarty

crazymonkey wrote:

After reading this thread yesterday, i stopped in my local garage on the way home, it sells white diesel (car Diesel) for E103.9 and green (agri) for E59.9, thats a 44c per ltr difference, the shop keep told me that the difference in price is just the tax level, Can this be soooo, it seem's extreme to me

thats the only difference....

its easy to change the colour , but there is more to it than there... there are other chemicals in it , and as I understand it they can still be detected from the cars exhaust if needed....

Capt'n Midnight

css wrote:

It's tax evasion. C&E have scary powers, try blocking them and you end up in court quicker than you will even realise..

Might take you a while to get to court as you could be walking , AFAIK they can confiscate your car on the spot and sell it off if found guilty and there is that thing about them not needing a warrant to enter a premises.

prospect

Well, in my 10ish years driving I never heard of a fuel check.
But after reading that lot, I don't think I'd risk it. It seems that only once, being in the wrong place at the wrong time :eek: !

Our man in Havana

The thing is they don't make most of their busts from road checks, it's from squealers that ring the customs hotline and are then caught at home. These are often compounded with charges of keeping MGO in non marked tanks. Thats another €1270 fine.