"Stick with the kebabs"

Sleipnir

Another Fianna Fail-er shows his true colours.

Lenihan slammed for kebabs remark

18 May 2005 12:06
The Socialist TD, Joe Higgins, has condemned as 'snide' a comment made in the Dáil by the Junior Minister, Conor Lenihan, during a debate on Aer Lingus.

Mr Lenihan had told Mr Higgins to 'stick with the kebabs' when he raised the issue of the future ownership of the airline during Leader's Questions.

Mr Higgins, who has been campaigning on behalf of Turkish workers employed by GAMA construction, said it ill behoved the Minister for Development Aid to make snide comments in such a way.

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The remark was made as the Taoiseach responded to comments made by Mr Higgins

mike65

Minister makes gaffe shock..move along. Nothing to see here.

Mike.

uberwolf

it's actually racist IMO. How'n'ever as with everything else, individuals in this government believe themselves immune to repercussions for their actions and refuse to be accountable.

I'm looking at you McDaid

ferdi

jesus i'd kill for a kebab

mike65

Lennihan has already issued an appology to all who took time out to be offended.

I'm looking at you McDaid

I would'nt put the crime of McDaid on the same planet as Conors faux pas.

Mike.

cdebru

hardly a faux pas to refer to turkish people as kebabs

especially when you are the minister with responsibility for overseas developement

Is this the kind of rascist atitude we want representing us in the area of overseas developement

gandalf

And as usual he will brazen it out. Well what do you expect They drunk drive, tax evade, knock down people and none of them resign whats a bit of racism on the side :rolleyes:

Its a disgrace and if Ahern had a spine he would remove Lenihan from his Ministerial position.

mike65

cdebru wrote:

hardly a faux pas to refer to turkish people as kebabs

I doubt Lennihan had Turkish people in mind when he make his remark, he was merely trying to come up with some sort of retort to Joe Higgins
and not being Stephen Fry came up well short. The remark says more about the lack of sparkling urbane wit in the Dail than the levels of racism.

Mike.

cdebru

mike65 wrote:

I doubt Lennihan had Turkish people in mind when he make his remark, he was merely trying to come up with some sort of retort to Joe Higgins
and not being Stephen Fry came up well short. The remark says more about the lack of sparkling urbane wit in the Dail than the levels of racism.

Mike.

come on mike for god sake it is obvious it was a reference to the the Turkish workers who joe higgins has done so much in highlighting their plight

DublinWriter

cdebru wrote:

hardly a faux pas to refer to turkish people as kebabs

You'd be lepping up and down if Irish people were referred to as 'paddies' in the British House of Commons.

Irish people are extremely racist.

Disgraceful, Lennihan should resign. A rotting politician in a rotting government.

dregin

DublinWriter wrote:

You'd be lepping up and down if Irish people were referred to as 'paddies' in the British House of Commons.

Irish people are extremely racist.

Disgraceful, Lennihan should resign. A rotting politician in a rotting government.

I think you've misunderstood what cdebru is saying.

I agree with what you say though. This kind of behavious shouldn't be tolerated in any government. I hope the GAMA workers take action on this.

Hobart

mike65 wrote:

I doubt Lennihan had Turkish people in mind when he make his remark, he was merely trying to come up with some sort of retort to Joe Higgins
and not being Stephen Fry came up well short. The remark says more about the lack of sparkling urbane wit in the Dail than the levels of racism.

Mike.

So who do you think he had in mind? Joe Higgins has been the most vocal of campaigners for the GAMA workers, the majority of whom are Turkish. The fact that lenihan is or is not the master of wit and retort does not excuse his blatantly racist remark. I don't care that he apologised, he should have more sense as a public representitive.

How do you not see the connection between what he said to Higgins and the Turkish workers?

cdebru

DublinWriter wrote:

You'd be lepping up and down if Irish people were referred to as 'paddies' in the British House of Commons.

Irish people are extremely racist.

Disgraceful, Lennihan should resign. A rotting politician in a rotting government.

yes i would

i think he should resign as well

and that you quoted the wrong person

mike65

Hobart wrote:

So who do you think he had in mind? Joe Higgins has been the most vocal of campaigners for the GAMA workers, the majority of whom are Turkish. The fact that lenihan is or is not the master of wit and retort does not excuse his blatantly racist remark. I don't care that he apologised, he should have more sense as a public representitive.

How do you not see the connection between what he said to Higgins and the Turkish workers?

I see the connection.

We all "know" Conor Lennihan - he's not the sharpest speaker or the most articulate. I imagine at the moment he spoke he was casting around for something, anything to reply to Higgins. He had Higgins in mind at that moment not the Gama workers. I imagine as he sat down the words he spoke sunk in. Yes he should have had more sense.

Mike.

Hobart

So you believe he did have Turkish people in mind then?

cdebru

mike65 wrote:

I see the connection.

We all "know" Conor Lennihan - he's not the sharpest speaker or the most articulate. I imagine at the moment he spoke he was casting around for something, anything to reply to Higgins. He had Higgins in mind at that moment not the Gama workers. I imagine as he sat down the words he spoke sunk in. Yes he should have had more sense.

Mike.

he shouted it as the taoiseach was about to reply to joe higgins

he was not on his feet he did not have to say anything nevermind blurt out a racist comment and he obviously had the gama workers in mind when he shouted the remark across the chamber

landser

mike65 wrote:

I see the connection.

We all "know" Conor Lennihan - he's not the sharpest speaker or the most articulate. I imagine at the moment he spoke he was casting around for something, anything to reply to Higgins. He had Higgins in mind at that moment not the Gama workers. I imagine as he sat down the words he spoke sunk in. Yes he should have had more sense.

Mike.

a lone voice of reason in a sea of over reaction. Lenihan beag is a fool, and his ill founded retort to higgins reflects this. even if he was referring to the turks, which is not certain, a kebab is hardly a term of major racial abuse imo. get a bit of perspective people.

BuffyBot

We all "know" Conor Lennihan - he's not the sharpest speaker or the most articulate.

And that's what makes it ok, huh?

Nuttzz

dregin wrote:

I I hope the GAMA workers take action on this.

What action do you suggest? Dail Privilege means you can say almost anything about anyone without fear.

Stupid comments from Lenihan, but no worse that Enda Kenny's unfortunate joke a few years back, it will be all gone away for him by next Wednesday

DadaKopf

Lenihan is our minister for overseas development. This racist remark is unforgiveable. He's a gombeen about development anyway and he should be replaced.

DublinWriter

Nuttzz wrote:

What action do you suggest? Dail Privilege means you can say almost anything about anyone without fear.

Only regarding remarks made against individuals. If that was said in the British House of Commons, he'd be breaking the Race Relations Act 2000.

So what if he's a gombeen man - ignorance is not a defence.

Maybe he should stick to the brown envelopes.

Trojan

He should be fired for both racism (which is disgraceful for a man in his current position), and for stupidity.

bonkey

mike65 wrote:

We all "know" Conor Lennihan - he's not the sharpest speaker or the most articulate.

I don't actually know him (or about him), but I'll take your word on this.

He had Higgins in mind at that moment not the Gama workers. I imagine as he sat down the words he spoke sunk in. Yes he should have had more sense.

Lets say you're correct Mike, and that it was a case of his brain catching up with his mouth, resulting in a genuine apology for an unintended slight.

Now, imagine he made a comment like that in Turkey, in front of Turks, while promoting Ireland. Or that in any foreign location, his mouth gets in front of his brain again, and he insults whichever people he's trying to woo as an official representative of Ireland.

Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity.....sure.....this seems to be the defence of the man.....but we surely should conclude that at best we have a Minister who is in charge of overseeing foreign development and who is too stupid to know what is and isn't acceptable to say about foreigners.

I'm really not certain what type of a defence it is to say "the minister wasn't malicious...just stupid". I'm not sure a stupid Minister is something we should want any more than a malicious one.
I'm not sure I'd be calling for his resignation just yet, but I do think an apology is insufficient. An explanation, followed by a statement of intent describing what he is going to do to help ensure he never makes a screw-up of this nature whilst representing our nationp would be a start.

jc

DArcy

Lenihan has to go - there's no excuse for his comment. What a fantastic apology though - "if I offended anyone, I'm sorry". Does that mean he's not sorry if nobody was offended?? He doesn't regret what he said at all!!! :rolleyes:

landser

DArcy wrote:

Lenihan has to go - there's no excuse for his comment. What a fantastic apology though - "if I offended anyone, I'm sorry". Does that mean he's not sorry if nobody was offended?? He doesn't regret what he said at all!!! :rolleyes:

this is the report from eircom.net

He later returned to the Dáil chamber to apologise and say he regretted the incident. "During the Order of Business this morning I made remarks that I now regret having made. I regret the remarks made and regret sincerely if any offence was caused."

I reckon that counts as an apology.

It's nice to see the outraged of clontarf or wherever brigade are out in force on this once agian. Lenihan should go, but not beacuse of these remarks, but beacuse he is an idiot.

In fairness to him, the remark was in retort to a "silence of the lambs" jibe at fianna fail backbenchers over the airport.... kebabs are made from lamb and are associated with turkey... hence the "joke"... unfunny but not racist.

*note to self... they are meat and salad filled flat bread savoury snacks, not kebabs

eigrod

Hypothetical scenario : Had a Tory MP told Chris Mullin MP to "stick to the potatoes" in the House of Commons in the 80's, how would Deputy Lenihan's late father have viewed such a comment ?

Trojan

Landser wrote:

It's nice to see the outraged of clontarf or wherever brigade are out in force on this once agian. Lenihan should go, but not beacuse of these remarks, but beacuse he is an idiot.

Ah, so people of Clontarf (or wherever) have no right to feel outraged that a public representative, in charge of Development Aid no less, has made racist remarks in our official place of government?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Dublin8

I am a forigner my self
but i would not agree with that idea that all irish people are racist
you get good and bed people everywhere
well you can say tendency is more here than anyone else
i have some lovely friends here
who treat me no different than anyother irish person

everyone is not same

mostly all the uneducated people are racist or those who havent travelled out of the country

i am depressed by the ministers remarks.its a shame for him and i think he shud be ashamed of him self.when you re representing the country you dont do things like these

not sure he shud resign or not but he shud offer a writen appology who are offended. and i think he shud have the courage to do that

DublinWriter wrote:

You'd be lepping up and down if Irish people were referred to as 'paddies' in the British House of Commons.

Irish people are extremely racist.

Disgraceful, Lennihan should resign. A rotting politician in a rotting government.

Hobbes

DadaKopf wrote:

Lenihan is our minister for overseas development. This racist remark is unforgiveable. He's a gombeen about development anyway and he should be replaced.

I agree. They showed it on TV, fupping muppet. Looked like he only apologised because he got caught and his job was on the line.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

pete

Mr. J. Higgins: Will the Taoiseach state clearly if it is his intention today to hand over a majority of Aer Lingus to private interests? If our national airline finishes up in the hands of the sharks who dominate international big business the Taoiseach, his party and his Government will be guilty of outright treachery and of stabbing in the back the thousands of Aer Lingus workers and those associated with the company past and present who have kept the national airline going in good times and in bad, who have paid in taxes much more than many other sectors of our society and multiples of any meagre State subventions that Governments have given it.

It would stab in the back the communities that depend on the national airline and support it. Privatisation would be an abject admission by the Government that it is incapable of supervising a national asset in the interests of the people, surrendering it to the casino economics that currently dominate international capitalism.

It is not necessary to privatise Aer Lingus for investment. The billions of euro that the Government has wasted in the overruns on the road programme alone would buy planes to fly the entire population around the world several times over and for free.

Has anyone else been struck by the silence of the lambs on the Fianna Fáil backbenches? In the past when cuts in Aer Lingus or privatisation was mooted we heard shrill cries, perhaps strangled cries would be more accurate, from the Government backbenches. This time, when real opposition is needed, when they need to stand up and be counted we have the silence of the lambs. The same lambs who often found their voices to allege that small Dáil parties and Independent Deputies have no power cannot even bleat. At least we have not lost the power of speech to oppose the sabotage of our national airline in the same way as they have.


The Taoiseach: Even the Deputy does not believe that raiméis but he has to say it.


Mr. J. Higgins: What raiméis?


Mr. C. Lenihan: What the Deputy has just spoken is the best definition of raiméis I have heard.


Mr. Kenny: That is socialist bleat.


Mr. C. Lenihan: Deputy Higgins should stick with the kebabs.


The Taoiseach: That is extreme left, even further left than I would ever dream of going. Deputy Higgins knows that none of that is fact. Aer Lingus wants to grow and maintain jobs. The staff and trade unions in Aer Lingus have no objection to equity being put into Aer Lingus. How it is structured and formed are concerns for them but the concept that Aer Lingus can stay as it is and not expand when aircraft cost €150 million is not a sustainable position. We must move into a world that allows the company to examine new opportunities it has identified.

The company has worked hard over the past few years to restructure under the survival plan. In case Deputy Joe Higgins forgets, Aer Lingus like many other airlines in the world almost went under a few years ago and that position was not just caused by the attack on 11 September. Because of trade unions, staff and Departments working with the company, that was turned around. What it needs and wants to do now is to grow back into its previous position. This arrangement will be carefully managed and organised with advisers, and the percentage of equity, the management structure on the other side, and what safeguards are required are all issues for discussion.

For the airline to build on what it has succeeded in doing during two difficult periods, one in 1993 and the other in 2001, it needs equity. To argue otherwise is to totally misrepresent the interests of the workers about whom Deputy Joe Higgins purports to be concerned.


Mr. J. Higgins: The snide comment from behind the Taoiseach that I should stick with the kebabs, referring to my fight against the exploitation of Gama workers, ill behoves the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, who has responsibility for overseas development.

so what's "raiméis" then?

sceptre

pete wrote:

so what's "raiméis" then?

Nonsense. Usually with a twist of bitter lemon.

m1ke

To those that say it was just a gaffe: well it was the kind of comment that you could perhaps forgive if:

a) you were in the pub and under the influence of a few pints
b) if it was coming from anyone else besides an official representative of ireland abroad

The Turkish embassy should definitely lodge a complaint... how can they be expected to deal with someone who shows such contempt and then tenders a mere indirect apology.

He should resign or the Taoiseach should show some leadership and remove him. To show such a high level of incompetence and unprofessionalism in your ministerial post is inexcusable. If he isn't removed it calls into question the quality of all our public representatives.

Esel

He could have claimed he made a genuine mistake. Didn't Bertie use the word 'kebab' when he meant to say 'cabal' not too long ago?

"What I meant to say was '..stick with the cabals'. Sorry about the confusion. It was Bertie's fault really".

bonkey

Just as an interesting counter-point...CNN were reporting last night about some hot water that Vicente Fox landed himself into when he made a comment recently that Mexican migrant workers in the US were doing jobs that "not even blacks want".

jc

boidey

Lenihan made an off the cuff ill considered remark to a TD that has campaigned against the activities of Gama construction towards its workers. A company that has been rewarded more than one govt funded project. I would expect nothing less from his fathers son.
Plus ca change....................
Bertie could do the decent thing and sack the ejit but then again probably will not

eigrod

For months the government, of which Mr. Lenihan is a junior minister, ignored the plight of the Gama workers. Mr. Higgins went out and did something about it to improve the worker's lot, and then he gets comments like that thrown at him from said junior minister. How ridiculous is that ? Sums up the arrogance of this government, as so many other issues have.

Mighty_Mouse

It's a lovely "cead mile failte" feel to things especially in the context on McDowells "these people" remarks about refugees.

Poor aul "Minister for JUSTICE" McDowell was complaining about the UN restrictions on how refugees must be processed. In his ideal world such chaters wouldnt exist and he could put "these people" (mind you after a quick interview) back on the next plane.

This is the same guy would was delighted as kids about to sit their leaving certs were deported in the middle of the night back to Nigeria.

Lehinan only has a political career because his dad was a skilled politician. The man in a muppet. Imagine he is going to remain our representative overseas. Can't wait until he has to represented us with the kebabs!!

swiss

Personally, I think he's being skewered by the political establishment for what was essentially a takeaway remark.

DublinWriter

eigrod wrote:

For months the government, of which Mr. Lenihan is a junior minister, ignored the plight of the Gama workers. Mr. Higgins went out and did something about it to improve the worker's lot

Quite true, but then again, what would you expect as FF have always been the 'friend' of the construction industry.

Of course he won't be sacked. He'd need to be caught butchering babies on Kildare St. for Bertie to maybe consider sacking him. He's also Mary O'Rourke's nephew. FF'ers tend to look after their own, espeically those with connections.

Mighty_Mouse

Personally, I think he's being skewered by the political establishment for what was essentially a takeaway remark.

I like it!

halkar

Reminds me one of the Late Late shows when Gay was hosting. There was a joke:
What do you call a Turkish Baby?
Kebabi

Anyway, he should be taken to Kilmainham Jail and spend rest of his life there as a cleaner

saltar

mike65 wrote:

Lennihan has already issued an appology to all who took time out to be offended.



I would'nt put the crime of McDaid on the same planet as Conors faux pas.

Mike.

The standards of both these public representatives is disgusting to say the least. As an Irish person I feel embarrassed that these two still take our taxes and can do what they do so impunitively.
They have been put, where they are, by the people, and the people will put them straight back out.

Cork

DublinWriter wrote:

Quite true, but then again, what would you expect as FF have always been the 'friend' of the construction industry.

Of course he won't be sacked. He'd need to be caught butchering babies on Kildare St. for Bertie to maybe consider sacking him. He's also Mary O'Rourke's nephew. FF'ers tend to look after their own, espeically those with connections.

He apolgised. But typically - it has now turned into a cheap political football.

It was FF who intrioduced the mimimum wage, before this workers could be legally paid from 0.

Those who criticise a throw away remark - must never watch programmes like the Simpsons. Do these people write into News International about the St Patricks Day eposodes?

Hopefully politicians will never crack a southsider/ northsider joke.

The Fine Gael leader’s offence was to tell a silly story in public which involved the use of the word ‘******.’

Do FG know about people in glass houses throwing stones?

Avoid political footballs. Deal with racisim period.

DublinWriter

Cork wrote:

Those who criticise a throw away remark - must never watch programmes like the Simpsons. Do these people write into News International about the St Patricks Day eposodes?

Unbelievable. So you're basically saying that if it's alright for the The Simpsons it's alright for our National Parliament?

Cork, you've finally lost the plot, dude. D'oh, etc.

More disgusting still was Mary O'Rourke's comment on Gerry Ryan this morning about Emmett Stagg.

Stagg called for Lennihan's resignation yesterday and it appears that good ol' Aunty Mary is prepared to snuffle around in the trough for a bit of personal mud to throw at Stagg in defence of her nephew.

Sickening. The Gombeen men are running the show and we've no one to blame but ourselves.

Cork

He apolgised. What more do people expect?

Should Emett Stagg be above criticism?

Should we also not mention Enda's use of the N word.

Labour seem to have no problems with Enda.

This incident has turned into a political football, cheap tabloid fodder.

When has an apology not been enough.

Emmett Stagg was not forced to resign.

Duras

ferdi wrote:

jesus i'd kill for a kebab

It means you never tried shaorma...

paperboy

found this very good cartoon..

http://www.ireland.com/cartoons/turner/2005/0519/

DublinWriter

Cork wrote:

He apolgised. What more do people expect?

His resignation. It wasn't a proper apology, it was a qualified one ("I apologise if...")

Cork wrote:

Should Emett Stagg be above criticism?

Nope. No politician should be. However, dragging up personal issues he's had in the past, which were quite frankly no one's business but his, is beyond contempt and should not even enter this debate about Lennihan's racist comments in our National Parliament.

In the context of FF's recent history of greasy-till fumbling and elected members drunkenly speeding up the wrong end of dual carriage-ways and running people over, Emmett's transgression was minor.

Cork wrote:

Should we also not mention Enda's use of the N word.

That was in the Dail, was it?

Cork wrote:

Labour seem to have no problems with Enda. Emmett Stagg was not forced to resign.

Because FF were in coalition with Labour at the time Emmet's problems occurred. FF had no problems with him then.

FF - Hypocrites, liars, cheats all.

Nuttzz

DublinWriter wrote:

That was in the Dail, was it?

does it really matter that it was in the Dail? Does saying it in the dail make it a "more" racist comment?