The WhiteVan Speed Camera

jasonh

About a cpl of months ago, did anyone see the speed camera that is hidden in the whitevan. The back doors of the whitevan are white'd out apart from a slit that allows the lense to view thru.

I have a couple of questions re: speed cameras, etc..


1. Would it be illegal to start a website that informs subscribers of where the garda are with the white van or with their sniper hand held cameras?
Drivers and pedestrians could keep this website up-to-date.

2. Is it not an infringement of civil rights to camouflage a speed camera in such a way as the white van? I suppose if you are speeding you are breaking the law. But I thought in england they have to put signs up where the speed cameras are.

3. How long do you think it would take to get a ticket thru the post after being caught on one of them whitevan speed traps?

4. R the whitevan traps manned or are they just set up and left there unmanned.

Dundhoone

1. Some muppet already did this, cant seem to find it now though

2. Nope, and wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

3. A couple of weeks from what I've heard.

4. Manned.

Neuro

jasonh wrote:

3. How long do you think it would take to get a ticket thru the post after being caught on one of them whitevan speed traps?

I got caught by this very van two months ago. I received the ticket by registered post about a week later.

tabatha

The organizations taking part must agree to new guidelines on making the cameras highly visible by painting them yellow. The guidelines also mean that cameras must not be obscured by road signs, bridges, trees or bushes. They must be clearly visible from 60m where the speed limit is 40mph or below, and from 100m in all other areas. Warning signs must be placed within 1km of cameras. Mobile camera operators must wear fluorescent clothing. Camera site visibility must be reviewed every six months.

The cameras must only be sited only where either four people have been killed or seriously injured in the previous three years, or where there have been eight 'personal injury accidents' 500 metres either side of the camera over the previous three years.

this is england rules on speed cameras...

jasonh

Dundhoone wrote:

1. Some muppet already did this, cant seem to find it now though

2. Nope, and wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

3. A couple of weeks from what I've heard.

4. Manned.

Dundhoone - sounds like you're all for them then?
As in Tabatha's reply - I think england have the right idea.
To me it just seems like a money earner for the garda. Which is the not the point of speed traps. Speeds traps are to help reduce the amount of accidents in an accident prone area - not to top up the coffers for the garda xmas party.

LegacyUser

Also, these GATSO vans aren't always the same colour from month to month. Apparently it's in their operational budgets to be sprayed every now and then with a magnetic paint.

jasonh

Buckfast wrote:

Also, these GATSO vans aren't always the same colour from month to month. Apparently it's in their operational budgets to be sprayed every now and then with a magnetic paint.

Magnetic Paint! Whats that for? So they can stick on different colour panels?

Would it be dodgy to start posting on the galway board where and when we see these GATSO (what does that stand for) vans or in fact the sniper ones.

Obviously I don't wont to get in trouble - but I think its only fair we have a few things up our sleeves as well, considering that they are being sneaky.

TheLedge

Dundhoone wrote:

wouldnt it be a bit hard to catch anyone if you stuck a sign up saying speed trap next 500m?

You'd be surprised. I live in England and despite there being numerous warnings about speed cameras etc, sometimes youre just not aware what the speed limit is, and they catch you that way, as well as the people who are just not concentrating.

Speed cameras are supposed to be a method of improving road safety but in many cases in the UK, and for sure in Ireland, councils will use them as revenue collectors. I bought myself a radar detector for my car here. theyre perfectly legal since somebody challenged it in the courts in the late 90's. His argument was that the detector would warn him of accident blackspots. Nice.

I'm not a speeder by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes you can be going 4/5 mph over and not realise it, or be in an unfamiliar territory and miss out on the signs.

Galway sounds awful these days with the mobile trucks and whatnot. If they dont clamp you now, theyll get you with the radar. Mind you, in around town you'd hardly be breaking any speedlimits with the car park like traffic. It's good to know nothing's changed... :rolleyes:

Dundhoone

jasonh wrote:

Dundhoone - sounds like you're all for them then?

In a word, yes.
There arent enough speed traps on Irish roads in my opinion. In (most) places the speed limit is correct for the area you are driving in.
While im against speeding, im also against slow driving - its that car at the head of a row of traffic doing 40 in a 60 mile zone that causes serious headache.

Really can't believe that you think the guards are "being sneaky" by using a disguised van to catch speeders.

secret_squirrel

tabatha wrote:

The organizations taking part must agree to new guidelines on making the cameras highly visible by painting them yellow. The guidelines also mean that cameras must not be obscured by road signs, bridges, trees or bushes. They must be clearly visible from 60m where the speed limit is 40mph or below, and from 100m in all other areas. Warning signs must be placed within 1km of cameras. Mobile camera operators must wear fluorescent clothing. Camera site visibility must be reviewed every six months.

The cameras must only be sited only where either four people have been killed or seriously injured in the previous three years, or where there have been eight 'personal injury accidents' 500 metres either side of the camera over the previous three years.

this is england rules on speed cameras...

Unfortunately most of that only applies to fixed camera's thats why most of the revenue collection has been switched to mobile camera's in Vans - they can park any where and dont have to be as visible. Thus meaning more money for the theiving scumbags.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

Magnetic Paint! Whats that for? So they can stick on different colour panels?

No, so they can make it invisible. Ask a stupid question .... Anyway, colour is change by electrical pulse.

jasonh wrote:

Would it be dodgy to start posting on the galway board where and when we see these GATSO (what does that stand for) vans or in fact the sniper ones.[/GATSO]

Not sure the mods would like that. There used to be a website — speedtraps dot something or other which logged them all.

GATSO came from the Dutch company that makes the detection equipment, Gatsometer BV.

jasonh

Buckfast - you seem quite knowledgable about these things.

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Thanks for all this info - I'm finding it very interesting.

TheLedge

jasonh wrote:

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Similarly, but not identical, my friend in UK who has Irish driving license was caught doing 62 in a 50mph zone. Because it wasnt straightforward to apply fine and points to iirish license, he recieved a court summons(but didnt attend) and the outcome was a normal 80 quid fine, plus 30 quid court expenses, but most importantly, NO penalty points.

This happens quite regularly along the border regions in Ireland. There is no syngery between the law enforcement agencies wrt the driving fines etc. The Gardai themselves know it's pointless to give speeding tickets to drivers from the North because they never pay them anyway. I have a friend in Fermanagh who gets away with it all the time. I suspect the same would apply to you, although it might depend on your address or your car registration. They could still haul your ass before the courts, and possibly surrender your license for an Irish one so the points could be added. I'm just speculating now because i've thought about surrendering my Irish license for an English one now that i'm in the UK, just in case such a scenario should arise.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

Here's one for ya - If I got caught and they sent me a speeding fine, I've got a UK drivers license, what will happen to the penalty points?

Well, for a start, if you didn't have the licence in the car with you when stopped, that's 2 penalty points. Then, if you fail to produce the licence at the station within 10 days, you will be summonsed for failing to produce the licence.

That'll lead to all sorts of sh!t as to whether [in law] you are insured or not because you're on a UK licence in Ireland (and probably UK insurance??), so things will probably get a good deal worse for you! Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance.

I know that when a licence is endorsed (for other offences under the Road Traffic Act) by an Irish court, it applies throughout the EU.

To answer your question, AFAIK penalty points cannot be applied, but you can end up in a whole pile of other poo poo.

TheLedge

Buckfast wrote:

That'll lead to all sorts of sh!t as to whether [in law] you are insured or not because you're on a UK licence in Ireland (and probably UK insurance??), so things will probably get a good deal worse for you! Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance.

That's rubbish. Are you saying then that any tourist who rents a car in Ireland is technically uninsured?

A UK license here is the same as an Irish license in the UK(or spain, france etc.). Not to recognise it would be discriminatory.

This is aside from the fact that qualified drivers in the UK are light years ahead in ability than Irish drivers. They have far more rigorous testing procedures and a much superior road infrastructure with which to drive on.

jasonh

Buckfast - I'm not sure if you're right on this one.

I've lived in Ireland for 3yrs have and Irish reg'd car and I have Irish insurance - (Hibernian). I have been with 2 different Irish insurers and both accepted my UK license no problem - they took photocopies n all. I think from a insurance side I might not qualify for certain discounts (not many thou). For example, they phoned me up and said that if I allowed them to use my dvlc licence number to check for penalty points (data protection act or something) then I could have a 10% discount. But I said I had a UK one (which I would have thought they already new), they said I didn't qualify and he hung up.

When I moved over, I was going to convert my UK DVLC to an Irish one. But everyone who I spoke to said don't do it, you'd be mad to. For one thing, you don't need to take the test again (till your a pensioner) with the UK one.

SO i'm still confused on what IS legal with regards to living here, driving here, having an irish reg car + insurance and holding a UK dvlc!

LegacyUser

TheLedge wrote:

A UK license here is the same as an Irish license in the UK(or spain, france etc.). Not to recognise it would be discriminatory.

Well perhaps you should point that out to every solicitor that appears in the District Courts here. Oh, and barristers in the Appeals Court too. They seem to be unaware of it.

You can drive here certainly, but if the Irish State is your normal place of residence, you are expected to have a full irish licence — granted, the fine will only be €10 or €20, but it's still recorded as a conviction. If he wanted, the DPP could *technically* pursue a case against you for having no insurance, although the Supreme Court ruled in 2001 that if you make a false declaration when taking out an insurance policy (lie about age, accidents, or licence etc.), the insurance company must honour Third Party cover.

TheLedge

Buckfast wrote:

Under an irish insurance policy (and the courts), a UK licence is not recognised, so you would be prosecuted for having no licence and therefore, technically no insurance

Taken from http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/exchanging_foreign_driving_permit.html?

"With effect from 1st May, 2004 ten new member states joined the EU (the full list of these new states is outlined below). Full driving licences from these member states are recognised for driving and insurance purposes in Ireland. "

jasonh

BINGO!

Thanks TheLedge for the link to the oasis gov site.
I knew I had seen this somewhere before, but couldn't find it again.
So with regards to UK drivers licence being valid in Ireland for driving and Insurance AND the issue of applying penalty points are:

With effect from 1st May, 2004 ten new member states joined the EU (the full list of these new states is outlined below). Full driving licences from these member states are recognised for driving and insurance purposes in Ireland.

If you are driving on foreign driving licence in Ireland and acquire penalty points here, you will receive the normal statutory fine but the penalty points will not be added to your foreign driving licence. If you subsequently exchange your foreign driving licence for an Irish driving licence, your Irish penalty points will then be activated on your new Irish driving licence.


From what I can gather, reading between the lines, they have to accept EU driver licences, because of problems/delays in exchanging your EU licence for and Irish one.

And with regards to penalty points, as it states in oasis:

Penalty points and endorsements on driving licences acquired in other states (including EU/EEA member states) are not recognised between states. This is because these penalties have been issued by courts in other jurisdictions.

Buckfast - I think you stand corrected.

Mind you - I can't see this being the case in the future. When all the EU countries get there act together, I wouldn't be surprised if we have an EU wide licence and penalty point system.

But I'm quite happy to hold onto my UK drivers licence as long as I can and avoid the points. Not that I'm going to go round driving like a nutcase now that I know.

TheLedge

The Oasis site is a great resource.

Just as a matter of interest jason, where did you get your UK license? What I mean is, did you do the test over there, or just surrender your irish one?(I know its a central application to the DVLA in Swansea)
I'm thinking of doing this, for the obvious reasons when i come back to galway in the next year or two! :eek:

jasonh

I'm originally from england so I did the test over there.

My brother-in-law who is from galway, actually went over to england, did his test over there and got a UK one.

LegacyUser

TheLedge wrote:

"With effect from 1st May, 2004

Ahh balls ... I left a court-related profession in January 04, that's probably why I didn't know that. Well up until the law changed, what I posted was the case.

*hangs head in shame*

jasonh

Buckfast - no worries, at least we got the situation clarified, thats the great thing about this forum!

Like I said before - I can't see this being the case in the future, sounds like it could be really abused.

LegacyUser

jasonh wrote:

I can't see this being the case in the future, sounds like it could be really abused.

Couldn't agree more

TheLedge

jasonh wrote:

sounds like it could be really abused.

...and abused it shall be!

(but it's not a license to speed i should point out...)

Marcopolo85

TheLedge wrote:

...and abused it shall be!

I cannot belive that people can be so flippant about speeding. One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is DEATH caused by speeding. I would respectfully suggest that everyone grow up, take responsibility and obey the limits that are there. Is it too much to ask? Trying to avoid being caught speeding is as bad as the brain-dead morons who drink and drive.

And before you get all indignant and self-righteous about civil liberties, spare a thought for all those families who have been decimated by death caused by speedsters or drunk drivers. What about their civil liberties and rights? :mad:

TheLedge

What I meant by my comment, and I'm sure jason will back me up on this, is that by having a UK license it's a way of not getting penalty points.(which ends up costing a fortune in insurance discounts!)

It's not about a LICENSE TO SPEED! It's about not getting caught 'breaking' the speed limit!! People are being prosecuted for doing 31 mph in a 30 zone! thats ridiculous! Is that speeding? Not in my book. If you have ever driven a car in your life, i'm sure you've broken the speed limit at some stage, and if you say you haven't, youre a liar!

I'm a very responsible driver, and by no means a speed demon as you have wrongly taken up.

Marcopolo85

TheLedge wrote:

What I meant by my comment, and I'm sure jason will back me up on this, is that by having a UK license it's a way of not getting penalty points.(which ends up costing a fortune in insurance discounts!)

It's not about a LICENSE TO SPEED! It's about not getting caught 'breaking' the speed limit!! People are being prosecuted for doing 31 mph in a 30 zone! thats ridiculous! Is that speeding? Not in my book. If you have ever driven a car in your life, i'm sure you've broken the speed limit at some stage, and if you say you haven't, youre a liar!

I'm a very responsible driver, and by no means a speed demon as you have wrongly taken up.

Yes I agree - we have all broken the speed limit at some stage, but it's been many a year now since I did. And while I quoted from your post I was not aiming at you. I stand by my comments. The 31 in a 30 zone is a very selective comment, when the general issue is, let's say, 55 in a 40, or 80 in a 60.

I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for those caught - prosecute every single one of them. I have less sympathy for those posting on forums like trying to find ways of avoiding prosecution. A pack of morons the whole lot of them! :mad:

TheLedge

This is obviously a passionate subject for you. I can see where youre coming from though, obviously, but you have to admit that some of the speed limits around Galway are a joke. Theyre totally inadequate. Some are too fast, and some are too slow. It's a judgement call you have to make yourself, unfortunately you do have morons who speed everywhere regardless.

To try to get a 'definition of sorts' for speeding is maybe to use this.

The rule of thumb for prosection over here is SPEED LIMIT + 10% + 2mph before prosecution, ie 35mph in 30mph zone =speeding, 57 in a 50 etc.

I think this a better way of sending the message out.

jasonh

yes - this whole uk driver licence things wasn't to abuse the speed limit thing. I was just trying to understand the status quo.

My first enquiry was about these GATSO vans - they are parking up in place that they know they will catch people speeding - not accident prone areas.
For example the GATSO van was hidden on that dual carriage way from tuam rd roadabout to the headford road roundabout. Now that is blatant revenue generation for the garda. The speed limit, which I think is 50kph, is absolutely stupid. I presume its that speed limit coz it could be classed as a built up area. but come on.

just to put the record straight - I've been driving for 18yrs (since i was 17yrs old) and I have had no speeding convictions either in the UK, USA (CHIPS) or Ireland.

secret_squirrel

Buckfast wrote:

Ahh balls ... I left a court-related profession in January 04, that's probably why I didn't know that. Well up until the law changed, what I posted was the case.
*hangs head in shame*

ACtually you were wrong - the 2004 thing is only the New Member states. A uk license has been valid over here for years - its a fundamental part of EU harmonisation. I've been getting Irish insurance quotes for years based on driving in Ireland and holding a UK license.

However, there is a lot of talk about linking up the Irish and UK licensing computers in the next couple of years - specifically to apply convictions.

marcopolo wrote:

this thread is DEATH caused by speeding

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.

Marcopolo85

secret_squirrel wrote:

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.

CALM DOWN?! you cannot be serious! How do you discriminate between both? If you break the speed limit (which is there for a reason - i.e. to limit your vehicle to a speed at which you retain control) by 'inappropriate' speeding or by just plain speeding the end result is the same.

It makes you no different, say, to a certain politician whose antics beggared belief recently. :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

It makes you no different, say, to a certain politician whose antics beggared belief recently. :mad:

I really don't see what Conor Linehan has do with.....oh wait, you're throwing in a strawman...

Carry on...

And if this becomes a debate speed limits/speeding/how whole families and villages have been razed to the ground because of speeding, I really think it should be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Marcopolo85

Robbo wrote:

I really don't see what Conor Linehan has do with.....oh wait, you're throwing in a strawman...

Carry on...

And if this becomes a debate speed limits/speeding/how whole families and villages have been razed to the ground because of speeding, I really think it should be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Conor Lenihan..I believe it was Jim McDaid. Typical Irish solution to a not-so-Irish problem. Let's move it somewhere else and it won't actually be a problem. :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Conor Lenihan..I believe it was Jim McDaid. Typical Irish solution to a not-so-Irish problem. Let's move it somewhere else and it won't actually be a problem. :mad:

If only there was an emoticon for slapping one's forehead in frustration...

Marcopolo85

Robbo wrote:

If only there was an emoticon for slapping one's forehead in frustration...

Touch a nerve?

rander00

Originally Posted by secret_squirrel

Calm down - breaking the speed limit does not cause deaths. Inapproriate speeding causes deaths - there is a world of difference.

Originally Posted by Marcopolo85

CALM DOWN?! you cannot be serious! How do you discriminate between both? If you break the speed limit (which is there for a reason - i.e. to limit your vehicle to a speed at which you retain control) by 'inappropriate' speeding or by just plain speeding the end result is the same.

Touch a nerve?

Gawd, your so thick. You seem very touchy yourself on the whole "speeding" topic. If you cant see the difference between doing 35 in a 30 zone or 60 in a 50 zone, ect,..... with the real speeding of 80 and 90 in 50/60 zones your a retard or majourily politically correct.

Whats has you so bothered anyway, did your pet kitten get run over on the road? Boo Hoo!

Marcopolo85

rander00 wrote:

Originally Posted by secret_squirrel


Originally Posted by Marcopolo85





Gawd, your so thick. You seem very touchy yourself on the whole "speeding" topic. If you cant see the difference between doing 35 in a 30 zone or 60 in a 50 zone, ect,..... with the real speeding of 80 and 90 in 50/60 zones your a retard or majourily politically correct.

Whats has you so bothered anyway, did your pet kitten get run over on the road? Boo Hoo!

No, sunshine - as usual it takes a moron like you to validate the argument. Speeding, whether it be by a small or large amount, is both dangerous and lethal. Until idiots like you are educated to the risks, nothing will change. Cop yourself on and grow up......a car is not a toy - in the wrong hands it is a murder weapon. The speeding 'topic' as you so eloquently describe it causes the deaths (proven statistics) of hundreds of Irish people each year.

The 'retards' (just like to point out to you that terms like THAT are politically incorrect) are the ones who persist in both speeding and trying to avoid being caught doing it.

Mind if I ask if you're a member of that bunch of brain dead losers? :mad:

Robbo

Marcopolo85 wrote:

Touch a nerve?

Oh totally, I feel that irony should be taught mandatorily at schools.

TheLedge

Robbo wrote:

Oh totally, I feel that irony should be taught mandatorily at schools.

Class!

edmund_f

Marcopolo85 wrote:

The speeding 'topic' as you so eloquently describe it causes the deaths (proven statistics) of hundreds of Irish people each year.

just to argue the point more than anything, the figures that the irish gov. roll out on all the ads 'slow down boys' and other such nonsense are based on the world health orginisation. these are worldwide figures, including such places as india, africa etc check it out for yourself http://www.who.int/en/ it is almost amusing to note that once your are over about 50 (kph) you are pretty much certain to kill a person if you hit them, thus if the statististics in the WHO report are to used correctly ALL speed limits should be 50kph.

it appears the irish gov. have given up trying to teach us how to drive, or enforce good driving, all they want to do is for us to mame each other than kill.

speed does not kill, it is the rapid deceleration

LegacyUser

secret_squirrel wrote:

ACtually you were wrong - the 2004 thing is only the New Member states.

OH NO I'M NOT! The District Court Area of No. 7 in Galway (basically the Galway West Garda District) had been convicting people for having no driving licence if they only had a UK licence and were normally resident in this State. FACT. Perhaps this is no longer the case, but they certainly were between 1998 to 2004.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

speed does not kill, it is the rapid deceleration

For God's sake - that's like saying a glass is half-full instead of half-empty. There is no excusing this juvenile, idiotic behaviour. The people that practice it are brain-dead. :mad:

edmund_f

perhaps, but a more accurate analogy may be 'guns dont kill people, people do' which is better, an 80km/hr bad driver on the wrong side of the road, or a 160km/hr good driver on the correct side of the road?.

either way it is not up to us to enforce this (unless you are a cop), think the argument is the useless enforcement which allow these 'juvenile, idiotic', 'brain-dead' people (a) out on the road and (b) continue to stay on the road. Personally think the above description can be more aptly applied to our guardians of the peace.

magpie

~sigh - here goes~

As anyone with a brain capable of discerning fact from government propaganda can tell, Speed per se does not kill.

If there was one factor that caused road deaths in Ireland it is our roads which are almost universally substandard despite years of EU subsidies to modernise our communications.

Hardly any accidents happen on motorways or dual carriageways, despite the high speeds that can be attained on these roads.

The 'Speed Kills' campaign is a cynical (though successful - judging by how many people always trot it out) attempt by the government to divert 'guilt' away from themselves and onto individual drivers.

If they hadn't p1ssed away the results of the most successful economic period in Ireland's history and had actually used some of the money to improve roads (rather than say the €300M that the tribunals are set to cost - or the €765M they spunked away on the pointless Luas) maybe casualties would come down.

Good ol' Fianna Fail.

jasonh

I think one of the main problems over here - is this thing of provincial licence holders driving on their own. I've never seen something so stupid.
Can someone explain why they're allowed to do this - or is it a case of everyone turning a blind eye - maybe cos of the backlog of driving tests.

Isn't there another stupid thing of the government giving full licences to people who had been driving for a certain length of time, pre 70's or something?

I think it's a combination of all sorts of things:
farmers who think they can drink drive cos they live in the countryside and drive slowly
kids who live in the countryside and have nothing to do but drive around
the state of the roads
people overtaking 20 cars at a time
people driving on provincial licences without a fully licenced adult with them
people not using indicators
people not knowing how to use roundabouts
people who drive with full beam on and don't care if they blind oncoming traffic
people who drive with 1 headlight on (1 eyed jacks) or sometimes no full lights on
people who think they are vigilantes and drive in the passing lane at 50kph just to teach people who drive faster than them a lesson or 2
I could go on....but whats the point

Robbo

jasonh wrote:

people overtaking 20 cars at a time

Add to that people who spend far too much time on the wrong side of the road when overtaking.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

perhaps, but a more accurate analogy may be 'guns dont kill people, people do' which is better, an 80km/hr bad driver on the wrong side of the road, or a 160km/hr good driver on the correct side of the road?.

either way it is not up to us to enforce this (unless you are a cop), think the argument is the useless enforcement which allow these 'juvenile, idiotic', 'brain-dead' people (a) out on the road and (b) continue to stay on the road. Personally think the above description can be more aptly applied to our guardians of the peace.

Obviously you have issues with the Guards........still doesn't excuse anyone from speeding (or whatever ye choose to call it). All you're doing is splitting hairs. If everyone obeyed the correct limit the problems would be greatly reduced - it's as simple as that. :mad:

edmund_f

yes, i have problems with the cops, my main personal opinion is that they are useless, but that would be an argument for another day (thread?).

if the only factor you change in an accident is the speed, all you are doing is reducing the risk of serious injury or death.

Personally i would prefer to avoid the accident in the first place, and i believe that is the place to start. Speeding is an easy traget.

Teach people how to drive, properly. Personally i would suggest the irish advanced driving school. Teach some manners on the road, as per all of the things you see day to day on our roads except speeding.

The speed limits set are the limits as set out by law, they are far from the limit if what most modern cars will do. An accident at X kph or an accident at Y kph is still an accident and based on about a million other factors will decide the severity of the accident.

to say the limit is the limit is correct but very shortsighted, there are a lot of other things that need to be dealt with first. Constantly harping on about speed 'kills' is just diverting time energy and money from actually sorting the other problems out. (i am referring to the goverment here).

one thing you may think over is the statistics
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html
2001 411 dead, introduce penalty points 2002 by 2003 deaths down to 335! thus speed kills?..2004 375, 2005, about 20 above the 2004 figure to date. We have slowed down, but yet deaths are going back up?.

it may not be much of a leap of logic to assume that 'speed kills' is a temporary fix. you can get people to slow down and mame instead of kill, but until people learn to drive at all speeds things are not going to get any better.

Personally i prefer to drive to the conditions, as safe as possible and to the best of my ability, not to an arbitary limit.

Marcopolo85

edmund_f wrote:

yes, i have problems with the cops, my main personal opinion is that they are useless, but that would be an argument for another day (thread?).

if the only factor you change in an accident is the speed, all you are doing is reducing the risk of serious injury or death.

Personally i would prefer to avoid the accident in the first place, and i believe that is the place to start. Speeding is an easy traget.

Teach people how to drive, properly. Personally i would suggest the irish advanced driving school. Teach some manners on the road, as per all of the things you see day to day on our roads except speeding.

The speed limits set are the limits as set out by law, they are far from the limit if what most modern cars will do. An accident at X kph or an accident at Y kph is still an accident and based on about a million other factors will decide the severity of the accident.

to say the limit is the limit is correct but very shortsighted, there are a lot of other things that need to be dealt with first. Constantly harping on about speed 'kills' is just diverting time energy and money from actually sorting the other problems out. (i am referring to the goverment here).

one thing you may think over is the statistics
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics98/nroadstats.html
2001 411 dead, introduce penalty points 2002 by 2003 deaths down to 335! thus speed kills?..2004 375, 2005, about 20 above the 2004 figure to date. We have slowed down, but yet deaths are going back up?.

it may not be much of a leap of logic to assume that 'speed kills' is a temporary fix. you can get people to slow down and mame instead of kill, but until people learn to drive at all speeds things are not going to get any better.

Personally i prefer to drive to the conditions, as safe as possible and to the best of my ability, not to an arbitary limit.

All very fine, but you, like some others, have two basic problems:

1. A chip on your shoulder with the Gardaí/authorities

2. Using that very same chip to justify a juvenlile habit which anyone with even one brain cell can see causes untold death, destruction, AND MAYHEM.

You can dress it up whatever way you like - SPEED DOES KILL! :mad:

Actually that should read: THE IDIOTS WHO SPEED KILL! :mad: :mad: :mad:

jasonh

MarcoPolo - before your last post there - I was quite willing to listen to your side of the argument.

Now - after that useless attempt of a reply - obviously you don't have anything construtive to say.

LADS/LASSIES - don't bother replying to this fool anymore, ya wasting ya fingers typing.

AS the instigator of this thread - can I delete the thread?

BTW - has anyone read today's Galway Indie - about swapping points - in the article the RAC suggest that:

"Fixed cameras are not a solution to dangerous driving, people become aware of where they are, slow down and then speed up again. They are INDISCRIMINATE and a blunt instrument"

RAC would discourage the widespread use of GATSO or fixed camera. A Far preferable measure in the fight against speeding is a more visible garda presence on our roads.

WELL - I agree. I have no problem with that.