[Article] What's the story with casual homophobia?

Stefan

I think this is a great article from a 15 year old in today's Irish Times:

TeenTimes Hugh Golden
Ask any teenager what is the most common slag they hear around their school today and most like.ly they will answer with one three-letter word: gay. The word itself, with no strings attached, is considered an effective, quick-to-the-point insult that does the job of making others feel uncomfortable and out of step.

Another popular word in classrooms is ****. It is hard not to go through a single day at school without hearing the words, "Ya ****!" or "Wha' are ya, gay or somethin'?".

The sad fact is that teachers hear this and in my experience they aren't bothered. Why should they be? It seems as though it's not a big deal. If a pupil called another pupil a ****** there would be uproar, resulting in phone-calls home to parents, suggestions of counselling and unsympathetic reaction from his or her classmates.

And rightly so. ****** is a terrible term. A term synonymous with hate and prejudice against a distinct group of people. Hey, wait a minute, is **** not a term associated with hate and prejudice against a distinct group of people? Of course it is. Attitudes toward black people have progressed significantly in recent times but attitudes toward homosexuals don't seem to have evolved at the same rate.

These days a black person can walk down school corridors without drawing funny looks and insults. But homosexual people cannot. Something in our attitude needs to change but this change cannot happen as long as teachers tolerate the use of these hateful terms. Teachers can look at a class and clearly see the black students but homosexual students are harder to spot. This seems to be why teachers have less of a problem with homophobic insults than they do with racist ones.

A more open-minded, accepting John Paul II would have made a difference. Millions of people worldwide took his word as God's word. Therefore when he called homosexuality an "ideology of evil" and a "disease", it inspired homophobia and intolerance on a massive scale, drastically slowing down the progress of acceptance.

Maybe if Pope John Paul II had preached tolerance of homosexuals, the word **** would be as reviled as ****** is today. Sadly, pope-watchers don't expect his successor to do much better.

Those, including myself, who don't speak up when they hear these terms being used are part of the problem. In my view a teacher should always discipline a student when these terms are used, as should a parent.

But most importantly, students themselves should speak up when they hear something they don't like being said, whether it be ******, **** or Paki. Many Irish students are petrified at the thought of being racist and go to silly lengths so as not to offend, some not even daring to use the word black.

It's frustrating that when it comes to homosexuality, students have no such qualms.

Hugh Golden (15) is a pupil at Mount Temple School , Dublin

Submissions from teenagers of 500-word opinion pieces for this column are welcome to teentimes@irish-times.ie. Please include your phone number



© The Irish Times

damien

Nice how the censor on this forum works on "the n word" too. Very good article.

necropheliac

oh god!!!
that article is so good... i am bisexual and sometimes i do get slagged for it but not by the people i know normally by people that dont know me and never will... even my cousin calls me a dike but they are so self centered that their life revolves around other peoples misery... i think they are really quite pathetic,,,

fortysixand2

Wow . . . a 15 year old wrote this? I'm impressed and incredibly pleased, I think a little of my faith in humanity has been restored

segadreamcast

A little simplistic and (forgive the pun perhaps) black and white at times... but the fundamental message is certainly there and it is delivered with great tact.

I must admit, I was definitely inspired by this article this morning - and it was certainly a most welcome contrast to the previous teentimes piece (namely: "What's the story with...some fashion trend").

Geranium

I think that's a great article, I'm bi and up until a few weeks ago I used the words gay and dyke alot. I did it because it's just so detatched from being gay that I never really thought that it was wrong. I'm trying really hard now to change and get out of of my negative vocabulary. That article is something that I think I and some others have read.

Enigma365

One or two teachers in my school would make homophobic jokes in class. One of them was particularly popular with students and unfortunately would have had a lot of influence on students. He was a perfectly decent person and probably saw his jokes as harmless but as a gay student in his class, it only served to diminish my confidence further.

In my opinion, the single most important thing the Government could do today to combat homophobia in Ireland is to tackle the issue as Secondary level.

MrVestek

Very articulate for a 15 year old, I wish I had been that insightful at that age. He makes some very good points too but I feel, however, that despite the wish to educate people at a secondary level this, to a certain extent would be impossible. There'd be no getting around the hoodie-cap brigade making light of this in the class room and I feel that the younger people in secondary school would simply be too immature to deal with such a topic. Myself, having only left school just over a year ago I've seen this kind of behaviour myself and it really makes me despair at humanity. Unfortunatly with children today, they are too focuses on fitting in and if they are in the company of someone they like and think they're 'cool' and hear that said person slagging someone else for being 'gay' or being a '****' they are going to join in to be accepted by their peers, which is a pity. One of the many things that bugged me in school was the whole sheep mentality of the other students.

Awareness is a good idea but the government would have to come up with a pretty innovative and effective way of doing this and looking at the current, mostly incompetant government we have in power, this doesn't seem very likely.

I do agree with the point he makes about students speaking up about something they dont like being said in class. Maybe, instead of trying to make students aware of homosexuality and how they should tollerate others who are different, they should be taught more to speak up about something they believe in and taught to speak up when they think that something someone else says is wrong.

Hugh Hefner

Yeah, teachers don't react at all to this word (at least I've never seen it happen) and if I was one I would throw a guy out of class for using it offensively (even to someone who was certainly not gay).

It gets very annoying after a while to keep hearing this being thrown around. And I'm not even gay! I'd hate to think one of the guys in my class was a closet homosexual for no other reason than the casual use of this slag. Every time I hear it used I want to punch someone (but I don't).

If I were to speak up to the guys using it, it wouldn't change a thing. They don't give a **** about my opinion anyway. If I brought it up in class it'd be like, "Awww lads! Kev's gettin' serious on us now! Wa! Ya fudge packer!" It'd be pretty hard for me to affirm my heterosexuality in class after that. Not that I have a problem with being called gay but rather being thought of as anything that I'm not. I'd react badly to someone calling me a nordie too for the simple reason that I'm not from Nothern Ireland, not that I don't like Northern people.

I think I will talk to my clase friends about it though. I could probably get them to stop so I think I'll try. As for the rest of my class there's nothing I can do about it but if teachers reacted the same way to it as they do "The S Word" or "The F Word" then I think that would help.

MrVestek

Hugh Hefner wrote:

If teachers reacted the same way to it as they do "The S Word" or "The F Word" then I think that would help.

Here here...

fozzle

That was a great article, I'm really impressed by that kid. This is an argument I have regularly with one of my sisters, she has a couple of homosexual friends et she doesn't appear to see anything wrong with using "gay" as an insult. She says it's "just a word, it doesn't mean the same anymore". How many more gay people are going to have to be beaten or killed before the people of this country realise something's wrong? Too right the use of homophobic insults in schools should be treated the same as any other insult, it's extreemly offensive to the entire gay community to use them as insults, and it's not fair to use sexuality as a weapon against anyone, gay or straight, especially at an age where so many people are coming to terms with the whole sexuality thing, whatever the gender preference.

shoegirl

The article is largely right except for one point: a growing minority of students today are using racist language just as much as homophobic abuse. Not all students consider it unacceptable.

Agreed that it is up to ALL of us to express our distaste for prejudiced speech.
I well remember a great college friend standing up for me at university 15 years ago, its something I will remember her for for the rest of my life.

shoegirl

Achilles wrote:

I do agree with the point he makes about students speaking up about something they dont like being said in class. Maybe, instead of trying to make students aware of homosexuality and how they should tollerate others who are different, they should be taught more to speak up about something they believe in and taught to speak up when they think that something someone else says is wrong.

Fair point, but its very difficult to argue with a bigot - or more often, a group of bigots. They'll give YOU abuse and try to make YOU feel that you've done or said something wrong. They've an excellent herd mentality and will bully people who stand up for what they believe in into silence.
The only answer for bigots is to make the point clear and then eliminate the scum from your life. They need to be completely ostracised by the rest of us. Criticising them sometimes can just give them a platform and allow them the opportunity to develop kinships with other bigots.

Hugh Hefner

Just like 12 Angry Men........... Lol.

Boston

I really don't like the way the word biggot gets branded around. Their kids, mis guided and mis informed. Of course you can talk to them and change their view point. But you won't change anyone view point by calling them a biggot or scum. I definitely wouldn't call these kids biggots or even homophobes based on the article, I'd call them people that as yet are un-aware that calling some one a fag isn't acceptable, that it's hurtfull. There is a climate in schools that this is as acceptable as saying hello, majority of the time theres no real hate behind it, just don't know any better.

county

its the world we live in,socity is so unaccepting

Hmm_Messiah

LiouVille wrote:

I really don't like the way the word biggot gets branded around. Their kids, mis guided and mis informed. Of course you can talk to them and change their view point. But you won't change anyone view point by calling them a biggot or scum. I definitely wouldn't call these kids biggots or even homophobes based on the article, I'd call them people that as yet are un-aware that calling some one a fag isn't acceptable, that it's hurtfull. There is a climate in schools that this is as acceptable as saying hello, majority of the time theres no real hate behind it, just don't know any better.

I'd agree totally, though thats not to dismiss other people's frustration at the bigotry they experience.
I've seen "gay" used so often simply as a tagged on word, with no intention of hurting any one. Small comfort though to those who are gay within those groups who understand this to be their peer's response to "what they are". The difficulty here is that its to do with feelings and sensitivities, things we still find unbearably difficult to face comfortably.

Hugh Hefner

LiouVille wrote:

I'd call them people that as yet are un-aware that calling some one a fag isn't acceptable, that it's hurtfull. There is a climate in schools that this is as acceptable as saying hello, majority of the time theres no real hate behind it, just don't know any better.

I can assure you that's not the truth. Seriously.

My best friend is a confessed homophobe. He says he doesn't hate them he just thinks they're horribly disgusting (mostly because of guy-on-guy sex). He would never think of insulting a gay person (he's not that kind of homophobe) he'd just be freaked out if he was around one. I should get one of my other friends to come on to him. That'd be freakin' hilarious! Oh the reaction!

Boston

Hugh Hefner wrote:

I can assure you that's not the truth. Seriously.

My best friend is a confessed homophobe. He says he doesn't hate them he just thinks they're horribly disgusting (mostly because of guy-on-guy sex). He would never think of insulting a gay person (he's not that kind of homophobe) he'd just be freaked out if he was around one. I should get one of my other friends to come on to him. That'd be freakin' hilarious! Oh the reaction!

Your example doesn't contradict my point. It's not based on hatred, it may be homophobic, but I wouldn't say bigoted. Personally I'd call it adolescent immaturity and insecurity. He'll probably grow out of it. That's not to say there aren't kids out there with some really homophobic attitudes and bigoted outlooks, there are.

Getting a friend to come onto him would probably make him even more insecure and homophobic. Not saying that coming on to straight guys for the laugh is wrong, just be careful

Hugh Hefner

LiouVille wrote:

Your example doesn't contradict my point. It's not based on hatred, it may be homophobic, but I wouldn't say bigoted. Personally I'd call it adolescent immaturity and insecurity. He'll probably grow out of it. That's not to say there aren't kids out there with some really homophobic attitudes and bigoted outlooks, there are.

Getting a friend to come onto him would probably make him even more insecure and homophobic. Not saying that coming on to straight guys for the laugh is wrong, just be careful

Uh oh! I'm really sorry. I didn't mean for the second part of my post to have anything to do with the reference I made to your post. I was just putting down that thing about my friend cos' it popped into my head. It was silly of me to mention it.

I wouldn't get a friend to come on to my homophobic friend in a serious way just in an obviously funny way. It'd be cool. Besides, I'm not actually going to do it.

But to say more about what I said concerning your post, mostly the term fag/gay is used spitfully with full intent to hurt with full knowledege that it does and that it's unacceptable. They do know better. At least in my experience of hearing people use it.

Victor

LiouVille wrote:

I really don't like the way the word biggot gets branded around.

Bigots are people too? :rolleyes:

Of course one should define behaviors, not people. Until someone's behavior becomes inseparable from their personality and so defines their very existance, they are still people not objects. There are no bad people, merely people who do bad things.

We should refer to bigotted behavior, people with diabetes and people who are gay - not bigots, diabetics and gays.

Tar.Aldarion

if i call something gay i do mean its bad but it is no offence to gay people just brought up with that insult.

damien

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

if i call something gay i do mean its bad but it is no offence to gay people just brought up with that insult.

What utter bollox. You use the word gay in order to make something look bad or inferior and you automatically insult gay people. Would you use the word black or african as an insult instead?

shay_562

Wow...I'm a) incredibly jealous of a 15-year old who can write that well, and b) very impressed by how brave he is, considering how much **** he's gonna get at school for writing that. I can't see myself at 15 being willing to put myself on the line like that...hell, I can't see myself doing it now.

lucernarian

I suppose people can say that "casual" homophobia is wrong and unacceptable while at the same time one can argue that there is no malice or emnity behind it. In my eyes, the problem is ignorance and a lack of consideration. It's not a matter of wanting to do a bad thing, it's not wanting to do the right thing (in the majority of cases) because of peer pressure etc.

The problem I have with casual homophobia is that it is very likely to trigger more serious and harmful homophobia. Ignorance has a knack at degenerating from "innocence" to hatred and violence.

The guy who wrote the article is right and opened my eyes big time, not least because he is around the same age as me. I used to think there was no harm in the odd "****" word being thrown around but not since reading that. I'm also delighted to see that there are people out there showing that teens are not all binge-drinkers and can be very mature aswell. He put me to shame anyway.

LegacyUser

English is a living language so it evolves. Gay used to just mean happy, then it meant homosexual, and now the word is evolving again to mean bad.
people who use it don't always mean it as an attack on homosexuals.

rsynnott

Unreg. User wrote:

English is a living language so it evolves. Gay used to just mean happy, then it meant homosexual, and now the word is evolving again to mean bad.
people who use it don't always mean it as an attack on homosexuals.

Certainly not! And when people said that someone was "as greedy as a Jew", that was in no way an ethnic slur at all!

Please obtain a working brain.

Hmm_Messiah

"please obtain a working brain"

Thats your response to some one giving his opinion, to some one who freely contributes to a debate?

I wonder how interested he/she will be in future : you've just negated their opinion instead of politely correcting any thing you saw as mis-informed.

And his point was valid to an extent. The meaning of words originally can differ greatly from their common usage; as i have heard it used the guys arent accusing their mate of being "gay", its just a term to slag some one off. I've seen teenagers use it in my company dispite their fascination with my "gayness" and how totally welcoming they were to my partner.


That doesn't mean that damien.m and others are wrong. Of course it perpetuates , erm i dunno, a "negative resonance". But all words used to slag off by their nature do that. I'm not sure how muchh kids need to be educated about how this is wrong: bettere they were educated in the diversity of human life, even within a classroom, so their sensitivity won't be about what words to use but rather how to respect their classamtes and expect respect back .

damien

Unreg. User wrote:

English is a living language so it evolves. Gay used to just mean happy, then it meant homosexual, and now the word is evolving again to mean bad.
people who use it don't always mean it as an attack on homosexuals.

Change does not necessarily mean evolution. While language does change and does evolve, some changes can be bad especially artificial changes. To use Rob's jew word: I'm sure pre 1914 the word in Germany had one meaning and post 1930 in Germany it had a very different and more emotive meaning. After 1945 its meaning probably changed again.

It was a negative word for a long while, not because of evolution of a language but because of a society forcing new meaning on to it. Sitting back and letting it happen with the "ah sure things change, that's the way things work" is bollox. That's like letting a bully carry out his work.

Annasopra

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I suppose people can say that "casual" homophobia is wrong and unacceptable while at the same time one can argue that there is no malice or emnity behind it. In my eyes, the problem is ignorance and a lack of consideration. It's not a matter of wanting to do a bad thing, it's not wanting to do the right thing (in the majority of cases) because of peer pressure etc.

The problem I have with casual homophobia is that it is very likely to trigger more serious and harmful homophobia. Ignorance has a knack at degenerating from "innocence" to hatred and violence.

The guy who wrote the article is right and opened my eyes big time, not least because he is around the same age as me. I used to think there was no harm in the odd "****" word being thrown around but not since reading that. I'm also delighted to see that there are people out there showing that teens are not all binge-drinkers and can be very mature aswell. He put me to shame anyway.

I would also think that "casual homophobia" reinforces negativity in people who are questioning their sexuality - therefore makes things extremly more diificult for someone to come out and might possibly be related to some suicided

rsynnott

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

And his point was valid to an extent. The meaning of words originally can differ greatly from their common usage; as i have heard it used the guys arent accusing their mate of being "gay", its just a term to slag some one off. .

Derived from its meaning to describe a homosexual, as you well know. It wouldn't be acceptable to use the descriptor of ANY other minority grouping as a slur, even a non-serious one. (Except, occasionally, "blonde" )

Hmm_Messiah

why is it ok to use blond in some sense suggesting, untruly that blond people are dumb ?

You are saying it wouldn't be acceptable but I don't know who you are speaking for; it is acceptable , in the context, to me at least.

solice

Ok, moved in with a bunch of people i knew but didnt know that well at the start of the summer, moving out tomorrow to go back to college. But anyways, they knew the story, they knew what to expect and for a long time they were a bit aprehensive. We got on really well but at times i found it obvious that they were picking their words carefully when talking to me.
In the last month they have settled down alot more and everybody is comfortable and we all got on really well. And when i heard them use the word "gay" in a way to suggest that something is sh1te i was oddly pleased.
Ok, it was a slur on all homosexuals areound the world but I was glad that they were able to say it, it was a form of acceptance if you know what i mean?

Now if they would just keep the fcukin house clean i would be happy.

Cronus333

Great article!!! I wouldn't like to be him though.... Anyway on an earlier point, I wouldn't tell anyone in my school I was gay. It's very strictly religious and i'm afraid I'd be thrown out!! stupid jesuits.....

Victor

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

why is it ok to use blond in some sense suggesting, untruly that blond people are dumb ?

Hey, leave people with speech impairments alone!

Blonde has a genuine reference insofaras some people will dye their hair blonde. The original slight against blonde people was against these people who dyed.

Hmm_Messiah

solice
my experience to, though maybe its at the end of some "process". good to hear

and ans for the untidiness of the gaff i hear theres a couple of queer gangs breaking into houses and tidying up / redecorating.

Rev Hellfire

Actually I personally believe that the word gay has grown past its association with homosexuality, its now seems more to imply lame, few people when when using the word in its more common ' jesus thats gay' form are thinking of homosexuals. It all smacks a bit of going out of your way to justify your indignation.
I actually at one time added the word gay and its various l33t spellings to the banned word list on the old iol TFC server, the response to this action was to say the least informative.

the_syco

Gay is an odd word.

At first, it meant to be happy. I think it was used in "the daffodils" poem in that sense. Later, it meant homosexuals, and now it means that something sucks, or is lame.

damien

the_syco wrote:

and now it means that something sucks, or is lame.

and now it is allowed to mean something negative and lame.

Rev Hellfire

damien.m wrote:

and now it is allowed to mean something negative and lame.

So. Whats your point.

Rozie

I'm a bit divided. It really depends on the motivation behind it.

As for blonde jokes, *most* people realise how ridiculous they are and that's part of the humour.

Hmm_Messiah

your right Rozie, motivation is a big part of it.

I just find it a bit much this blanket condemnation of words because they wee once derogotary.

Every one on this thread practically calls heteroosexuals "straight", the difference being homosexuals are "bent", you get the connotation? but no problem there.

I liked what the kid wrote, and its true that teachers/classes need to make it easier for any guy/girl to be who they are

Boston

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

your right Rozie, motivation is a big part of it.

I just find it a bit much this blanket condemnation of words because they wee once derogotary.

Every one on this thread practically calls heteroosexuals "straight", the difference being homosexuals are "bent", you get the connotation? but no problem there.

I liked what the kid wrote, and its true that teachers/classes need to make it easier for any guy/girl to be who they are

If gay guys where constantly having a go at a straight guy for being straight there would be a problem also. Leaving the word fag aside (very likely to make me get nasty quickly), I really could care less about what words people use, however having my sexuality turned into some kinda joke, is allot worse then having it use as an insult.

Freaky Angelo

I agree that a persons sexuality is not a joke.

I recently changed schools and got more freedom, in that school you have people who ae blantly gay or bi and nobody cares. In my old school you'd have found yourself tortured. Actually I think what turned me was that only girls were nice to me and guys were totally scumbags - see I have issues so the way I see it:

Guys are tools none of them ever want more then a quickie, none of them ever want to have a relationship and they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves when they're getting off.

I respect women which is why I go for guys more lately. Sadly I put myself on hiatus from going out with people (not believing in love and all that crap) and found that I was a "fag without benefits". Benefits being that gay men have a very good kind of confidence that straight guys lack. I really can't explain it but gay guys hook up a little bit easier then straight guys.

The thing is that I believe most straight guys who call gay people faggots and fudge-packers and stuff like that are INSECURE about their OWN sexuality.

It's highly possible the guy calling another guy a fag is actually crushing on him. The world's mixed up and a bit warped. Gays Globally are the new Black People in a way, humans love to prejudice - bad enough they can't fully get over skin colour but a persons sexuality isn't a joke or anyone's big business.

Get with the times world - casual homophobia isn't fashionable it's just weird!

rsynnott

Freaky Angelo wrote:

I really can't explain it but gay guys hook up a little bit easier then straight guys.

*Glares*

Speak for yourself.

*Goes off to sulk*

Boston

Freaky Angelo wrote:

I agree that a persons sexuality is not a joke.

I recently changed schools and got more freedom, in that school you have people who ae blantly gay or bi and nobody cares. In my old school you'd have found yourself tortured. Actually I think what turned me was that only girls were nice to me and guys were totally scumbags - see I have issues so the way I see it:

They see you as one of the girls, not because of your sexuality but because thats what you want. If your happy being someones handbag thats grand, but it's not a for gone conclusion.

Guys are tools none of them ever want more then a quickie, none of them ever want to have a relationship and they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves when they're getting off.

Your either very young or full of ****. I'm a guy and somehow I manage not to be a ****. Most guys that people that about guys, only do so to excluse their own bad behaviour. convient blamign your gender for your own short comings as a person. And before you say decent gays guys are rare, bull, you get what you look for.

I respect women which is why I go for guys more lately. Sadly I put myself on hiatus from going out with people (not believing in love and all that crap) and found that I was a "fag without benefits". Benefits being that gay men have a very good kind of confidence that straight guys lack. I really can't explain it but gay guys hook up a little bit easier then straight guys.

This reads as you saying you go for people that you don't repect. whats that all about? Is it because you believe that you too, as a man, are a tool? and therefore liable to act in the same way as others of your gender? Maybe if you repected them abit more they would respect you in return.

The thing is that I believe most straight guys who call gay people faggots and fudge-packers and stuff like that are INSECURE about their OWN sexuality.

Yep, sure, maybe, whatever like. Some people are assholes simple as that.

It's highly possible the guy calling another guy a fag is actually crushing on him.

Who cares whats the arseholes reasoning is, doesn't make it any different. Maybe believing that litte fairly tales helps you, I don't know. I don't believe it accurate.

rsynnott: Please obtain a clue before posting again. Attacking a user with lines such as obtain a brain and you're an idiot is not on. You wouldn't do it in real life, don't do it here.

rsynnott

LiouVille wrote:

rsynnott: Please obtain a clue before posting again. Attacking a user with lines such as obtain a brain and you're an idiot is not on. You wouldn't do it in real life, don't do it here.

If they said something that silly, then yes, I quite possibly would. I'm not the most tactful, for better or worse.

And I didn't call anyone an idiot; please refrain from making stuff up.

Boston

rsynnott wrote:

If they said something that silly, then yes, I quite possibly would. I'm not the most tactful, for better or worse.

And I didn't call anyone an idiot; please refrain from making stuff up.

You say lots of silly ****, yet we don't rep into you and personally attack you. Besides if you disagree with someone disagree with them don't attack them. What is wrong with you that you don't understand that its not allowed on this forum and people don't want to reads you telling everyone with a different opinion to yours that their morons or brainless.

And I didn't call anyone an idiot; please refrain from making stuff up

if the search function was available I'd find the posts where you called people idiots. You seem to like to insult people on line. I find it boring to read tbh.

rsynnott

LiouVille wrote:

rsynnott: Please obtain a clue before posting again.

LiouVille wrote:

You say lots of silly ****,

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

Hmm_Messiah

rsynnott wrote:

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

You hae done Liouville a service; proved his point.

And have gotten off topic. Though wait.... was it about the silly ways people insult others.


Freaky Angelo: If that is in fact your own experience then I can see it would be depressing. However it comes across as a massive generalisation. Unfortunately some of what I say I have experienced; but I imagine that predatory/promiscous/casual behaviour is equally found in straight guys.

Freaky Angelo

Sorry about that Messiah, you're right I did generalize. But I've been put down by guys more then girls in my life...plus I'd posted after I got a hate-mail from my ex (I swear her and her brother are dogged!)

I stand by my belief that Love is a dated term that rarely applies (no I didn't bring it up last time) but all the guys I've met have wanted one thing.

I never let them get too far. I never get close to everyone and 50% of hate is fear because it's proven humans fear what they cant understand.

In all fairness though there are a lot of good guys out there but I know more gay guys that hook up faster and more frquently then hetro couples simply because guys usually think in similar patterns.

rsynnott and Liouville please keep the disputes to another forum seriously guys if Liouville is going to call me naive or whatever then at least could he act more mature? I am young but I've not had an easy life thank you.

So I retract a lot of my statement, that was the bitterness talking but here's what I believe:

Gay men have a different understanding of their preferred partners then in comparison to the straight men

Men are sexually active for longer that's a LOT to factor into their behaviour

I am NOT a handbag, I get on better with girls because they accepted me more readily then the male friends who found out ("Uh - I have to catch a bus")

Insecurity begets fear which begets hate in humans. It's a fact not a fairy tale but not all people fear some ARE just jerks!

And lastly: I blame my shortcomings as a person on BEING a person in the end of the day I at least realize my shortcomings. You DO realize that among YOUR shortcomings there is patronizing nature and a lack of tact I felt offended by how you talked to me. But I really don't care if you dislike me or not. After all. Why would your opinion matter? I don't know you. You obviously don't know me.

So in closing I was wrong to call all men tools it's just some people that are and homophobia is just another hate/fear humans NEED to come over if they want to move on (like letting Gay Marriage in and stuff)