Eircom to launch line upgrade scheme

damien

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single4824

Eircom is to launch an initiative to boost the number of lines that can be broadband-enabled per telephone exchange. Currently, even if an exchange is broadband-enabled, up to 22pc of the individual lines from that exchange are unfit to carry broadband.

From 27 May, any Eircom customer who is linked to a broadband-enabled exchange will be guaranteed a service so long as they place an order. The two exceptions will be customers who live too far from the exchange to receive broadband – the current limit for DSL coverage is 4.5km from an exchange – and those whose lines have been split to carry other operators.

Speaking to siliconrepublic.com, David McRedmond, commercial director of Eircom, said the initiative would allow the percentage of broadband-ready lines to be increased from 78pc to 90pc. “We’re calling it the amber programme. Currently customers are given either a green light – yes they can receive broadband or a red light to say no they can’t. Now we’re saying to them that they’ll qualify on the basis of a firm order.”

McRedmond added that getting up to 100pc was not realistic, given the physical limits of DSL technology, which meant that 4pc-5pc of lines from an exchange cannot receive broadband. On the line-splitting issue, he said that this was a problem that only ComReg could solve because currently Eircom has no economic incentive to replace the split line. “We need to find some regulatory solution to that. I’d like to see the regulator find some way to recognise the cost of removing those barriers, for example by reflecting it in the local loop unbundling price.”

On the wider issue of service availability, McRedmond argued that the Government’s own planning policies in relation to rural housing make it harder for it to achieve its broadband goals because one-off rural housing costs a lot more to provide with telecommunications and other services. He said that designating telecoms as an essential service in the way water and electricity is would help ease this problem.

“When you apply for planning permission it has to take into account the provision of services. If telecoms were designated as an essential service, it would have to be taken into account in planning applications and it would make it easier for [Eircom] to provide a service.”
He added that Eircom had lobbied both ComReg and the Department of Communications for such a change in designation, most recently at last Friday’s broadband conference in Galway.

I'd like to know what he means by a firm order and whether you can avail of this with all the other bitstream providers.

As for economic incentive to replace a split line, jesus ! Is it not enough that they make so much per month on line rental from one piece of copper ?

Sponge Bob

damien.m wrote:

I'd like to know what he means by a firm order and whether you can avail of this with all the other bitstream providers.

No, only pure Eircom customers may apply and not Bitstreamers or Single Billing customers .

Rural failure rates are far above 22%, more like 40% . McRedmond is basically punting out a non specific (and 100% non enforceable , esp by dear useless Comwreck ) SLA to our Cabinet to get a big fat grant to upgrade some 700 exchanges in next years budget.

BUT the Limit is still 4.5km sez Dave and a no splitter removal policy is in force , he is takin the piss as usual

Mr_Man

At least Eircom have now clarified what they plan to do to help those people who can't currently get broadband from an enabled exchange and so it is to be welcomed. Numerous people on the boards have complained about neighbours etc being able to get broadband and they are not. This will help them.

The interesting figure here is that it would seem that Eircom believe that only 4-5% of the people connected to an exchange are too far away. I wonder just where they got that figure from and how accurate it is.

M.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr_Man wrote:

The interesting figure here is that it would seem that Eircom believe that only 4-5% of the people connected to an exchange are too far away. I wonder just where they got that figure from and how accurate it is.

M.

I would imagine they have a fairly comprehensive database with this sort of information considering they own the network etc..

Sponge Bob

Mr_Man wrote:

The interesting figure here is that it would seem that Eircom believe that only 4-5% of the people connected to an exchange are too far away.

A report submitted by Eircom to cabinet in 2002 IIRC

I wonder just where they got that figure from and how accurate it is.

A hat, theirs . Nobody has checked any of their figures, Comwreck never ever put a megger in an exchange to check data for example, twould be easy and quick to sample 5 somewhere every year

Internally , Eircom know line failures are over 30% nationally and over 40% in rural exchange areas , some exchange areas are 100% failures .

In fact if Comwreck did some published meggering McRedmond could be extradited to New York for Securities fraud . Awful thought that.

Solair

and those whose lines have been split to carry other operators.

This makes no sense? Is it an error or are they saying they won't fix lines that are used by other operators? To me this would seem to be a blatent and public statement that they're going to have one rule for eircom.net customers and another rule for anyone else.

I think eircom needs to be split into 3 operating units (along the lines of the ESB's current split). Otherwise eircom.net DSL services will always receive priority. At the very least we should see seperation of accounting.

However, I'd totally agree with the comment about planning permission. Telecommunications services are an essential service in any modern home and are extremely important in a modern developed economy and MUST be taken into account in planning. Just like water, sewage and gas.

I also think that auctioneers and house builders should be obligated to provide accurate details of availability of broadband and other telecommunications services on all homes sold.

This would force building contractors and developers to ensure that good communications facilities were in place before the homes went to market. Not having broadband available is a bit like saying the home has to use a septic tank or that you'll have to generate your own electricity.

For example:

Any new development, regardless of location should have the following:

1: A structured duct system that is suitable for laying of any future communications service.
2: A structured and properly layed out system of telephone wiring, that is capable and tested to carry DSL signals.
3: A fiber optic cable system (this is NOT unreasonable in this day and age nor is it that expensive)

If you pay half a million euro for a home, there's no reason not to expect that type of stuff to be layed on.

A developer could easily enter into a contract, as some already have, with the likes of Magnet, Smart, Eircom, NTL, Chrous or whoever to provide this kind of services in any new development.

At the very least you could have every telephone line pre-tested and passed for eircom DSL.

---

Also on the use of Pairgain/DACS/Splitters or whatever you want to call them. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't "juggle" lines to ensure that someone who wants DSL can get it. If there's a shortage of copper pairs in an area, why not just give the person who wants DSL a straight copper pair and bundle a few lines that are used for voice-only services on the splitter.

It's not ideal, but it's a sollution!

The latest generation of pairgain systems also have no impact on 56K modems, so the person who ends up split shouldn't know any difference.

If you think about it if say 30% of lines in an area were "split" and maybe 30% of customers want DSL, there would be ways and means to juggle the capacity around to ensure that everyone's happy.

They just need to adopt a more flexible approach.

I know there may be a few rural spots where this may not work at all but, it'd help in urban settings where lines are split simply due to a shortage of copper pairs back to the exchange.

eircomtribunal

Solair wrote:

I also think that auctioneers and house builders should be obligated to provide accurate details of availability of broadband and other telecommunications services on all homes sold.

See here to find out who's to blame for n o t having the couple of hundred thousand new houses built in the last years not future enabled.
P.

Solair

It's not only a national issue, local councils (county and city) could make their areas more compeditive by implementing these kinds of measures, but no one cares.

We all expect Telecom Eireann to take care of that sort of stuff!

The unfortunate reality being it doesn't exist and it is absolutely vital that government (national and local) starts to play an active role in telecommunications development.

The old Bord Telecom Eireann was charged with that, eircom isn't.

Blaster99

Even if you need to order the broadband through Eircom to get the line fixed, you'll currently get the best deal going with them in any event as you get two out of six months for free and after six months you can change provider. I doubt they actually limit the scheme to their own customers, but I suspect the resellers can't be arsed dealing with it in reality. Much in the same way they don't deal with people with Phonewatch. But in the greater scheme of things I'm sure this is a very small price/pain to pay for somebody who currently can't get broadband.

I also suspect they don't actually enforce the 4.5km limit but cover themselves in case they can't get the line working with reasonable effort. But then this is Eircom so who knows.

All in all, a very positive development. Pity it took them so long. I suppose they've started to flatten out in terms of signs up so they want to go after the higher hanging fruit now.

Sponge Bob

Solair wrote:

This makes no sense? Is it an error or are they saying they won't fix lines that are used by other operators? To me this would seem to be a blatent and public statement that they're going to have one rule for eircom.net customers and another rule for anyone else.

Its actually an interpretation of WLR regs by Eircom to make Comwreck look bad and Eircom look good .

good good post and all of it discussed over time on this Board. Still goes back to that excellent report from OUR civil servants that was never followed up over 3 years on ......linked in that Comwreck blog

eircomtribunal

Solair wrote:

They just need to adopt a more flexible approach.

They sure would if:

ComReg set a half-the price line rental for lines not capable of broadband,

reduced the dial-up Internet costs by cutting down the FRIACO port prices significantly (a tenner per month for dial-up Internet, where bb is unavailable),

stopped Eircom's "net-subscription" racket, where 130 000 users are tricked into buying a rip-off subscription which is obsolete. These customers net Eircom some 30 million in subscription alone and probably up to €100 000 000/annually when their dial-up minutes are calculated. (Note: dial-up Internet minutes now exceed voice minutes for Eircom.)

As long as Eircom makes more money with its non bb enabled customers, it has no incentive to move away from the status quo. Eircom's investment into broadband is mainly in advertising – David McRedmond was quite open about that fact in his Galway discussion.(Eircom has a dismal 120 million investment into broadband over 5 years; wonder what percentage of it is into advertising) Thus the company can be seen to push broadband, claiming it needs demand stimulation (and the politicians and media are real suckers for that nonsense), when in fact it makes its money on the non broadband users. That's why Eircom is so hard at work to bury the fact that at least 40% of the population cannot avail of broadband.

P.

crawler

Hmmm....surely if a Bitstream provider (as a Customer of Wholesale) placed an order on an enabled exchange the same rules should apply, it is a regulated product afterall??

Otherwise it is anti competitive and also there would be a whiff of margin squishing (too long to explain in writing...) ??

damien

Surely this "offer" of them fixing your failing line should be on their wholesale website too for other suppliers to know in advance?

SkepticOne

Solair wrote:

This makes no sense? Is it an error or are they saying they won't fix lines that are used by other operators? To me this would seem to be a blatent and public statement that they're going to have one rule for eircom.net customers and another rule for anyone else.

"Split to carry other operators". This is just McRedmond muddying the waters on the issue of line splitters. He wants to make out that allowing other operators access in some way prevents Eircom supplying broadband.

As far as the announcement is concerned, I'm not really suprised given the pressure Eircom has been under for the last year. Unfortunately there's no way of measuring where these 'amber' cases will occur. Will they just be in places like Waterford and Galway where NTL (or whatever they are called now) are upgrading the network and other places where competition is appearing, or will they be more general? Can't really see the point in areas where Eircom have the total monopoly.

Exactly what work do Eircom intend to carry out? It obviously won't extend to a new line, otherwise they would be removing splitters. Maybe some removal of line taps and coils where it is cheap and easy to do so.

damien.m wrote:

As for economic incentive to replace a split line, jesus ! Is it not enough that they make so much per month on line rental from one piece of copper ?

Hell no! It is never enough. We deserve it too since for the most part we choose to view Eircom as the only possible solution to Eircom's broadband problems. It is only natural that Eircom would take advantage of this to push for more money form tax-payers and customers and laxer regulation from ComReg.

Solair

I think they may mean "split to carry other lines" it's someone either misquoting or who doesn't have a clue opening their mouth before engaging their brain.

Hmmm a 10 euro a month credit for "line incompetencey" i.e. can't carry broadband. Would be a good idea !!

I guess it's comparable to any infrastructure though. If you're a business / heavy power user you can have a lot of fun trying to get 3-phase power from the ESB in many rural and even urban areas.

Yet in others, you get it no problem.

Gone West

I see he deflects the issue, and lands it at comreg's doorstep.

Dero

Does anyone have any estimate of what percentage of current line failures is down to the presence of splitters, and how much is simply due to decrepit copper? Is this "initiative" actually going to achieve anything? Methinks it's not likely, given Eircom's record.

Sponge Bob

Dero wrote:

Is this "initiative" actually going to achieve anything?

If NTL (now UPC Cable) and Wireless operators are available Im sure it will . In rural areas it will make no difference for years and years .

Blaster99

Dero wrote:

Does anyone have any estimate of what percentage of current line failures is down to the presence of splitters, and how much is simply due to decrepit copper? Is this "initiative" actually going to achieve anything? Methinks it's not likely, given Eircom's record.

I'd say most people within 4.5km's fail because the test result is invalid. There's not a lot they need to do to fix those lines.

I know this is difficult to believe, but Eircom actually wants broadband customers. In particular in rural areas where there's no competition worth talking about.

Cryos

From 27 May, any Eircom customer who is linked to a broadband-enabled exchange will be guaranteed a service so long as they place an order. The two exceptions will be customers who live too far from the exchange to receive broadband – the current limit for DSL coverage is 4.5km from an exchange – and those whose lines have been split to carry other operators.

I would of thought that the 22% they would be talking about would of failed becaose of the two reasons above!

Berger

I've ISDN atm and keep failing the line test. Does this mean I should pass come May 27th?

pollyantic

Doesn't do much for those above 4.5Km from the exchange and out of range of all wireless operators.

Is it possible that those people will NEVER have broadband apart from satellite?


Thats a rotten deal.

bealtine

pollyantic wrote:

Doesn't do much for those above 4.5Km from the exchange and out of range of all wireless operators.

Of course if you lived in the UK you could get DSL upto 10km from the exchange.

Nevermind living here where lots of people who live far far less than the
magical 4.5km and who still cannot get DSL. They "live too far away" from
the exchange,is the excuse. Brand new lines as well.

Solair

Berger wrote:

I've ISDN atm and keep failing the line test. Does this mean I should pass come May 27th?

Don't all ISDN lines fail DSL tests automatically? I don't think eircom supports DSL on ISDN lines although the technology is available.

We had to downgrade to a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) line and then have DSL activated on that.

On the plus side, ISDN requires a dedicated copper pair so if you're with 4.5KM of the exchange you should be ok for DSL.

Cryos

all isdn lines fail the dsl test apparenlty, you have to send away from a test. I remember when we were ordering DSL for our business the isdn lines failed but our dedicated fax line passed !

Must ring eircom on the 27th and see if i pass or fail im nearly positive im around the 4.5 km mark

cgarvey

That used to be the case alright, but I don't think it has been the case for a good few months now. Certainly ISDN lines I've tried have been passing for ages now.

.cg

De Rebel

McRedmond .... said that this was a problem that only ComReg could solve ......

McRedmond .... argued that the Government’s own planning policies in relation to rural housing make it harder for it to achieve its broadband goals......

RESPECT

You have GOT to admire the man. McRedmond is class. Not just his silver tongue, but his intuition. He is really really good. We long since admitted that his ability to sound sincere and plausible while misleading hundreds of thousands of listeners and customers is top notch. But this time out he demonstrates that he has the measure of not alone the thoroughly useless ComReg but also Disappointment Dempsey.

Disappointment Dempsey came to office over 8 months ago. In that time he has delivered nothing on the communications front. Absolutely nothing. NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING. He was handed a clear concise set of 12 recommendations by the Oireachtas Communications Committee. In plain English his peers set out what had to be done. And what has he done ? NOTHING. Absolutely diddly squat. His predecessor may not have set the world on fire, but at least he directed/mandated FRIACO, saw the introduction of flat rate(-ish) internet products and the commencement of the DSL rollout. Following on from this period of movement, it was reasonable to at least expect continuity from Dempsey. But no. Absolutely NOTHING. At least O'Rourke tried. She may have screwed up everything she touched, but at lease she tried. This guy hasn't even made an effort.

And the amazing thing is that McRedmond had the measure of him months before the rest of us. In a press release dated 24/11/2004, just weeks after Disappointment Dempsey’s appointment McRedmond put it up to both ComReg and Disappointment Dempsey: “eircom also announced today that it plans to achieve 90% Broadband coverage in Ireland by March 2006 and is calling on Government to deliver the remaining 10%” – Beautiful, we’ve done our bit, now you do yours, and here is the sh1tty end of the stick for you to grab a hold of, said in the full knowledge that Disappointment Dempsey would neither rise to the challenge nor throw the ball back over the wall. And from the same press release, this sideswipe at the gloriously ineffective ComReg, “The Regulator has a crucial role, both to support investors in broadband infrastructure, and to ensure that innovation is not choked by over-regulation.” Talk about tongue in cheek - the man who spent 3 years convinving ComReg that their rightful place was in the Dock in the High Court, and now he lampoons them by finding a "crucial role" for them. P1sstake or what.

McRedmond – you are a class act – in a word – RESPECT. Which is not a word that is likely to appear in the same sentence as Mr Noel Do Nothing Disappointment Dempsey in the near future.

Berger

Blitz wrote:

all isdn lines fail the dsl test apparenlty, you have to send away from a test. I remember when we were ordering DSL for our business the isdn lines failed but our dedicated fax line passed !

Must ring eircom on the 27th and see if i pass or fail im nearly positive im around the 4.5 km mark

How do you send away for a test?

Kingp35

Berger wrote:

How do you send away for a test?

Just log onto the eircom.ie website and go to the broadband section.
There is an option to upgrade ISDN line to braodband. Simply order
this option from eircom and they will come and test the line for you.
If it passes they will give you broadband. I think at the moment it only
costs €25 to upgrade your line to broadband.

byte

Kingp35 wrote:

Just log onto the eircom.ie website and go to the broadband section.
There is an option to upgrade ISDN line to braodband. Simply order
this option from eircom and they will come and test the line for you.
If it passes they will give you broadband. I think at the moment it only
costs €25 to upgrade your line to broadband.

Does that mean you'll be stuck with Eircom Broadband? Or can I just do the same on BT site or UTV's site?

pollyantic

I called Eircom today and she knew nothing about this amber.
Said i failed the test, so tough.

Cryos

i called aswell and was told the exact same thing

gavinfa

Having finally managed to get a brand new line from Eircom and living within stone's throw distance of the Broadband enabled exchange (I have tried hitting it with stones), and having read the article about placing a firm order, etc, I still fail....this despite the local engineers bewilderment as to why the line is failing...those underpaid, unfderworked b/b sales people have adopted the "It's failed so tough policy". HELP!!!! I have done everything that should ensure the line passes....there is nothing else I can do....suggestions please? Letter to Ombudsman? Holy water? Depressed in South County Kildare!