Driving tests to be privatised

Our man in Havana · 10-05-2005 5:48am #1

From this mornings indo:

THE Government is to employ private driving testers and provide special bonuses for State examiners to slash the backlog of L-drivers waiting to take their test.

The Irish Independent has learned that the Government has agreed a package of measures to bring the waiting time for a test down to a couple of weeks - instead of up to 15 months.

The measures, to be announced shortly by Transport Minister Martin Cullen, envisage an extra 80,000 L-drivers being tested within 12 months.

The package includes:

* Bringing in a private company to run the tests at the L-test centres throughout the country like the NCT. They will be asked to carry out 40,000 tests a year until the backlog is cleared. It is proposed to go to tender for the private testing operation shortly.

* Lifting the embargo on the recruitment of driver testers to fill existing vacancies.

* Funding a large bonus scheme for State driver testers so they will receive performance bonuses depending on how many they test.

The aim is to test an extra 40,000 driving candidates. There is currently a backlog of 124,250 applicants for the driving test.

It can now take as long as 62 weeks to get an appointment.

It is expected the private testers will work alongside the State testers at least until the backlog is cleared.

Finance Minister Brian Cowen has agreed to bankroll Mr Cullen's measures.

Latest figures show the longest waiting time in the country for a driving test is 61 weeks at the Dungarvan test centre - in Mr Cullen's Waterford constituency.

The shortest waiting time is at Loughrea where L-drivers have to wait 14 weeks.

A top level Government source said last night Mr Cullen's package had one one key objective - to substantially reduce waiting times for driving tests.

The entire package is designed to eliminate the current backlog by the end of next year.

The minister's officials have written to, and are engaged with Impact, the driving testers' union.

The Government source said: "These set of proposals can make the difference."

The source added: "Waiting for a year or more to sit your test is understandably causing frustration."

It is understood the minister took soundings from his Fianna Fail colleagues on the depth of feeling nationwide on the issue.

The package of proposals also include a competition to be held shortly to recruit driver testers on a contract basis. A panel will be created and contracts offered.

The bonus scheme to increase productivity is being structured to encourage an increase in basic productivity levels of current testers within normal working hours.

At the same time this is designed to reward testers for delivering substantial additional tests.

If takeup from testers for this proposal is positive, it is believed up to 40,000 tests could be delivered.

Mr Cullen has expressed concern that the backlog for driving test are remaining stubbornly high.

Treacy Hogan
Environment Correspondent

Surely legislation is needed to allow private people to conduct tests?

ambro25 · 10-05-2005 7:06am

Clear the backlog, performance-based bonuses, etc... Just another 'Great License Giveaway' in the making, you ask me

edmund_f · 10-05-2005 7:12am

suppose it has been on the cards for long enough, with all the insurance companies already coming up with their own driving test. Why do we have to 'bankroll' it?. What is the fee for, or is the private test going to be free?. If not get the insurance companies to pay for it. They are making enough money already and are the ones who are going to mainly financially benefit from it?.

sounds like you and me are bailing out incompentent politicians yet again.

Dizzyblabla · 10-05-2005 7:25am

excellent! I hope this works...

garthv · 10-05-2005 7:34am

Yeh I can see this making the Driving Test a hell of a lot easier. If the companies need to reach certain targets to acheive their bonuses , more and more idiot drivers will be released onto the roads with full licenses. Hooray for the Government!

tk123 · 10-05-2005 7:36am

me too - it's been 50 weeks since i applied!!

Renegade_Archer · 10-05-2005 7:44am

On one hand, I approve, as Ive been waiting a farking age(reminds me, must give the centre a ring), on the other hand this could release a massive shower of muppets onto the roads, and no doubt the insurance companies will use it as an excuse to rape people even more.

lomb · 10-05-2005 7:55am

i think its excellent news frankly. ye people who say it will release muppets on the road it couldnt be worse than it is!

anyway, in the usa, if u want to do a test u simply show up any day u want business hours and they do it there and then. stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

seamus · 10-05-2005 8:00am

Good news, but 3 years late. Why does everything take so ****ing long in this country? Realistically, there's no reason, why the backlog couldn't be cleared by the end of *this* year, why next year?

I wasn't aware however that there was an embargo on the recruitment of new driving testers :rolleyes:
Government employees should be banned from joining unions.

bill_ashmount · 10-05-2005 8:00am

GaRtH_V wrote:

If the companies need to reach certain targets to acheive their bonuses , more and more idiot drivers will be released onto the roads with full licenses. Hooray for the Government!

They will need to reach targets to achieve bonuses in terms of numbers tested not numbers passed. There is no reason to say that the standards will slip

Seth Brundle · 10-05-2005 8:07am

seamus wrote:

I wasn't aware however that there was an embargo on the recruitment of new driving testers :rolleyes:

Didn't Charlie Mcreevey bring this in where there would be no increase in any Govt employees? Something to do with the fact that the country wash awash with money and they spent it all on junkets, sweets for Harney, etc.

tinofapples · 10-05-2005 8:21am

On the back of last nights Prime Time programme I wouldn't be too otimistic of private firms doing what the state should be doing !!

Our man in Havana · 10-05-2005 9:11am

Can they bring in a private company without legislation to cover it?

lomb · 10-05-2005 9:13am

Bond-007 wrote:

Can they bring in a private company without legislation to cover it?

i hope they do, about time the lists are cleared to a one week delay. government employees become lazy due to the environment they work in, unions etc. i dont know about u but a 15 month wait is UNACCEPTABLE in any country other than a banana republic.

Garibaldi · 10-05-2005 9:16am

Not to mention the fact that the muppets won't be released. They're already out there.

That Prime Time prog was depressing. Not a single politician available for comment? Those gits seem to be answerable to noone. Not that they really matter anyway. It's largely the Civil Servants who are running this country into the ground (literally, given Prime Time's examples). I'd start a revolution if this seat wasn't so comfy.

Alun · 10-05-2005 9:16am

Hang on just a minute here!

Where exactly is this private company going to get it's hands on all these extra driving examiners? I can't imagine that such a company already exists, with hundreds of driving examiners sitting on their @rses waiting eagerly in the wings to be shipped off to all corners of the world to cut driving test waiting lists wherever they're needed, can you?

It all sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

lomb · 10-05-2005 9:17am

Garibaldi wrote:

Not to mention the fact that the muppets won't be released. They're already out there.

exactly! its called the 'provisional' licence.........

Dades · 10-05-2005 9:18am

Two things...

Does EVERY motor topic have to turn intoa rant about insurance companies??
Maybe now that you will actually be able to get a FULL license means your insurance will be cheaper.

And those muppets that will be released on the roads are already ON the roads driving on their 12th provisional license.

Jeez - Irish people!

lomb · 10-05-2005 9:18am

Alun wrote:

Hang on just a minute here!

Where exactly is this private company going to get it's hands on all these extra driving examiners? I can't imagine that such a company already exists, with hundreds of driving examiners sitting on their @rses waiting eagerly in the wings to be shipped off to all corners of the world to cut driving test waiting lists wherever they're needed, can you?

It all sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

will trin them up, or alternatively hire driving instructors (private)on a sessional basis most probably.

K2 · 10-05-2005 9:23am

Thats a fair point Alun. I agree with the move to reduce the waiting times for tests, but it may also drive up the cost of getting lessons as these new testers will probably be head hunted from the driving instructors currently teaching the learners out there.

lomb · 10-05-2005 9:33am

K2 wrote:

Thats a fair point Alun. I agree with the move to reduce the waiting times for tests, but it may also drive up the cost of getting lessons as these new testers will probably be head hunted from the driving instructors currently teaching the learners out there.

its probably more cost effective to sit and fail 5 or 10 exams and then pass than to do numerous lessons and spend thousand tbh.

hussey · 10-05-2005 11:13am

When will be likely to see this?

DukeDredd · 10-05-2005 2:01pm

Why can't the current testers free up the backlog themselves? I believe there are 122 testers in Ireland. If each of them did one test every hour in a normal 9 to 5 situation with an hour for lunch thats 7 per day each. Thats 854 in total per day between all the testers. On a 200 day year thats 170800 tests...hire a few more testers and the numbers go up.

impr0v · 10-05-2005 2:45pm

DukeDredd wrote:

Why can't the current testers free up the backlog themselves? I believe there are 122 testers in Ireland. If each of them did one test every hour in a normal 9 to 5 situation with an hour for lunch thats 7 per day each. Thats 854 in total per day between all the testers. On a 200 day year thats 170800 tests...hire a few more testers and the numbers go up.

excellent calcs ms. voderman, however it only takes one fail to send you back to the casio.

an unusually proactive step from an unconvincing minister thus far. perhaps a sign of things to come, now that he has waded out of the murky pond of innuendo and rumour that he's been lurking in for a while.

prospect · 10-05-2005 2:48pm

impr0v wrote:

excellent calcs ms. voderman, however it only takes one fail to send you back to the casio.

an unusually proactive step from an unconvincing minister thus far. perhaps a sign of things to come, now that he has waded out of the murky pond of innuendo and rumour that he's been lurking in for a while.

Plus the number of first time applicants being added every day...

K2 · 10-05-2005 4:28pm

its unusual to take an exam without having taken a course before hand so maybe thats the other side of the coin the gov should look at. eg making it mandatory to do x amount of lessons, or an approved course with a driving school (in all weather/types of roads/day and night) as is the case in other countries. Reducing the numbers resitting the test would probably have quite an impact on the overall numbers waiting to do the test and thereby reducing the waiting time for a test.

I'm in favour of having more testers but such a move will not make a big difference if the failure rate stays as high as it is. ie you will still have a high number of provisional drivers on the roads

Ernie Ball · 10-05-2005 4:45pm

Won't the incentives in this plan work to decrease the pass rate (increase the failure rate)? If they are earning bonuses for the number of people tested, the testers will have no interest in seeing that particular teat dry up. The more they fail, the longer it takes to work through the backlog, the more they make.

Seth Brundle · 11-05-2005 7:36am

There are other issues to be looked at:
* who tests the new testers to the departments 'standards'?
* given the huge variance in pass/failure rates nationally, what will be done to normalise the testers?
* the private testers will he retained for about 2 years (from what I heard). Once this two year period is completed and the waiting lists reduced, assuming the number of testers is the same, what is going to stop the waiting lists rising again?
* if a productivity based bonus scheme is in operation, surely this means that testers will be tempted to cut the length of a test - not very safety orientated IMO
* when are they going to introduce motorway testing or at least bring in something similar to NI where newbies cannot drive over 50mph and cannot use a motorway for 1 year?
* when are they going to sort out the licence fiasco whereby someone can fail an infinite amount of times during their life & still drive home

seamus · 11-05-2005 8:17am

Ernie Ball wrote:

Won't the incentives in this plan work to decrease the pass rate (increase the failure rate)? If they are earning bonuses for the number of people tested, the testers will have no interest in seeing that particular teat dry up. The more they fail, the longer it takes to work through the backlog, the more they make.

I don't ever think lack of candidates is going to be a problem for them. The incentive would seem to be there to encourage them to stop acting like civil servants. If it reaches the point where they're thinking about laying off testers, then yeah, definitely we'll see it. But I have a feeling this bonus thing is going to be "Right lads, for the next 18 months, we'll give you €20 for every candidate you test, once you've done more than 25.". They'll work hard for 18 months, then sit back on their arses again.

There are other issues to be looked at:
* who tests the new testers to the departments 'standards'?

This is an issue now.

With the exception of random supervisory testers, I don't think there are any particular tests apart from the driving test that you require to become a tester. Hell, maybe I'll apply for it, and issue myself and cert for my bike licence

Once this two year period is completed and the waiting lists reduced, assuming the number of testers is the same, what is going to stop the waiting lists rising again?

As I say above, absolutely nothing I think. With the exception of the embargo on new testers being lifted, the system will remain the same. With the amount of immigration taking place, and more young drivers than ever on the roads, the pressure on the system has never been worse. This is a short-term patch job, nothing more. It'll clear the backlog until the next ill-though-out statement from a transport Minister causes all the prov drivers to rush to the testing centre.

* when are they going to introduce motorway testing or at least bring in something similar to NI where newbies cannot drive over 50mph and cannot use a motorway for 1 year?

Off topic, but I don't think the NI system is a solution down here. Not allowing motorway driving on the current provisional is crazy enough, never mind barring qualified drivers from both high-speed driving *and* motorway driving after qualifying.

Driving tests to be privatised

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