Nintendo Revolution Speculation

RE*AC*TOR

Apologies if this has been posted before.

Spong.com wrote:

Okay. No major revelations there, but I bet its got you thinking about future game design and interactive potential, yes? Yes…but for me, the first twinge of excitement regarding this machine didn’t come until the final pieces of the long-rumoured DISPLAY puzzle fell into place:

- the IGN boys posted this regarding a patent for Nintendo’s upcoming display technology, which I linked to a few days ago. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to glean that this conceptually portrays a form of 3D image projection.

- at a major film conference called ShoWest just last month, a panel featuring George Lucas, Robert Zemekis, James Cameron, Robert Rodriguez, and a satellite feed from Peter Jackson has studio reps, journalists, and theatre owners seriously jazzed about their plans to integrate cheap digital stereoscopic 3D (like recent IMAX features or the old school Captain EO experience at Epcot) into ALL major chains by 2007. Lucas even showed several minutes of the original STAR WARS with remapped visuals that popped off the screen and hovered in front of audience members. When an agent friend of mine was chatting with Rodriguez (there to pump Sin City and discuss his experiences with Spy Kids 3D), he mentioned how they were aware of a game machine beating them to the mainstream 3D market.

- the next day, I contacted another strangely influential industry pal/pundit and shared my thesis purely for fun’s sake (and perhaps some extremely lame bragging rights). The final shiny block of tetrisy knowledge slid into place when he excitedly shared the following - that the Big N had shown a real-time 3D add-on for GameCube behind closed doors…AT LAST YEAR’S E3. It has since gone MIA. This is the sound of four rows dropping.

More details and potential software discussion to follow…for now, I’m eager to hear YOUR thoughts. How will stereoscopic 3D gaming usher in the ‘Revolution’ that Nintendo has been trumpeting? Will it end up nothing more than a Virtual Boy style gimmick, or will custom 3D glasses become the big fashion accessory of 2007 and beyond? With graphics chip codenames like Hollywood and Broadway, does this signal Nintendo’s plans to make more cinematic games that mimic the upcoming 3D theatrical experience? If (and, from what I’m hearing, this will be a VERY big IF) Nintendo shows their hand at this year’s E3 by giving everyone at their annual press conference a pair of 3D glasses to wear, will players care?

Zombrex

The problem with moving 3D games or movies is that they still haven't figured out a way to truely trick your eyes into believing you are seeing a 3D image, and as such you are going to get people throwing up after using a 3D system for more than a few minutes.

One example, that really hindered VR, is that when looking at a screen everything is in focus, so where as your eyes would normally change focus when looking from something close to something far away, when using VR you use the same focus for all objects in the world, which really confuses your eyes because you are overriding your naturally instincts to be constantly changing focus. And as such you had people walking out under buses after half an hour on a VR system.

One solution used in flight simulators is to use a system of mirrors to make objects in the distance at a different focus level than objects close up, but that isn't very pratical for a screen setup.

petes

Sounds interesting. Have'nt Nintendo actually confirmed that they are going to appear at E3 in some shape or form. Things like this can go either way. The virtual boy was acomplete disaster. On the other hand it Nintendos new machine could just be what the industry needs, a good kick up the arse. All the speculation of whats going to be inside each machine and the "mines bigger than yours" attitude is not the way to go imo. Needs more innovation.

stevenmu

Sounds like it would work similar to the stereoscopic technology that's been available on PCs for years now. The scene gets rendered from two slightly different angles, the display then alternates between the two images many times a second. The viewer wears a pair of glasses with an LCD "shutter" covering each eye, these flick on and off in time with the display giving each eye a view of the same scene from a different angle, tricking you into thinking it's true 3d. It works really well, objects appear to be truly solid and are positioned both in front of an inside the monitor. Flight sims look really amazing in "true" 3d as do FPSs, altough the crosshairs can be a little mixed up. GTA is unbelievable, it's like you're playing it with little die-cast model cars . Anyone with an nVidia gpu can download the stereo drivers for it and edimensional sell the glasses for 60 or 70 dollars. It works with any CRT (monitor or TV) and I think it works with LCDs now aswell.

It sounds pretty believable to me anyway, seeing as I've had it at home for the last couple of years, it's about time it made it to consoles.

Brock

I have a pair of them e-dimensional glasses still cant get em to work on my ati card but i use to love playing gta and C.O.D on my my old 5200.If nintendo use this i think peeps may stay away from the console as it will be again risky making games for it and will developers make full use of the technology.
But saying that if the likes of E.A are giving support from nintendo and judging by there releasing every game on every console if u can have the next need for speed or medal of honor in full 3d this may sway peeps over.

stevenmu

The thing about this tech is that the game doesn't need to support it (altough they should really take it into account to let crosshairs etc work ok). They can just build their game as normal, the graphics chip handles the stereoscopic part.

Brock

well on the pc some games need to support it and the problwm with the crosshairs was easily fixable as u can move the images closer together or furthur apart.
one problem i had was if i turned them on during medal of honor the whole wall would disappear kinda like a half assed wallhack.
its a good idea but so was touch screen but we see what reaction that gets.

Dbones

wow... nintendo's gonna make a console version of the virtua boy???
we remeber how well that came out don't we?

madrab

Dbones wrote:

wow... nintendo's gonna make a console version of the virtua boy???
we remeber how well that came out don't we?

noo but that just proves our point

smokingman

Anyone remember that patent ign reported on a while ago?...
The one with a top down "Display" technology showing a gameworld with little Links?

hmmm....I'm getting more curious about this by the minute..

cregser

stevenmu, what do you mean by it works with any CRT monitor or LCD display?

It'll be interesting to see what Nintendo do for the Revolution. My final year project was actually about stereo vision. I had my interview today. The guy who did my interview (who has done some work in the stereoscopic area) told me that 10% of the population can't actually see in 3D. I know I don't have any trouble.

The problem that Brock was talking about sounds more like dodgy drivers than anything. If Nintendo do 3D properly then there shouldn't be any of the issues Brock described. But nVidia have done it (for years) and Nintendo (apparently) did it last year. It wouldn't b very hard for Sony or MS to add it on to their (next gen) consoles. Unless the Hollywood and Broadway chips really blow us away.

I for one don't like the idea of wearing stereo glasses. They'd have to be very comfortable. If Nintendo are patenting something then I'm guessing it's some sort of 3D display, like a monitor were the images pop out of the screen. But these go for about €4,000-20,000!!

I dunno. I'm excited but apprehensive for Nintendo. I think they're on the slippery slope right now. It'll take something special to knock Sony and MS off their high horses.

BloodBath

How is that going to work with a standard tv? Will you not be getting half the refresh rate of the tv for each eye which means your going to be getting 12.5fps-15fps on a standard tv.


BloodBath

Kazaanova

Has anyone seen that video displaying 3D technology? I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with Nintendo, it was more to do with like presentations and models etc. But it was extremely cool none the less. I'll look for the video, its worth seeing. And yeah, from the looks of it, it seems that game developers wont have to do the work, the graphics chip will.

yawnstretch

whatever about the DS (which I personally hated) 3d screens, and stereoscopic glasses sounds mega-cool to me and I'd pay loads for it (if it's done well of course).

Anyone ever been to the terminator2 3d film in universal studios? Freakin awesome - went to see it 3 times. sure you wear some crappy plastic glasses but its well worth it. Videogames with the same effect would be...

...too good

Giblet

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/662/

Watch the video

Kazaanova

Thats the one Giblet.

Although I'm sure it was really difficult to create the technology, it looks like its really easy to mess around with. Can you imagine what a team of 30-60 people could do with this stuff?

In my opinion Nintendo need to pull something on this scale out of the bag in order to stay in the game. I've never been a huge Nintendo fan, nor do I know a lot about it, but I always hear people going on about how innovative they are, now they themselves are saying that their next console is going to be a revolution, it should be interesting.

Corben Dallas

Thats a pretty freakin awesome video, watch it!

---

That whole Nintendo piece above is BS and smacks of Megaton!!!1111?/!! again :rolleyes: *yawn*
Nintendo havent got the technical expertise to pull of something like that and put it out on retail as part of their next console.

IMo this a vain attempt to create (any) Nintendo hype about Revolution in the run up to E3. Nintendo have said that theyre goin to hold fire on all revolution info/case shots/ Revolution games until some time after E3, probably so that the Gaming press/public might even take notice.

And as for N showing this 3D rendering hadware/TV output 'behind closed doors' at last years E3. Total horse****e!

If they were looking to offer this to movie studios as some sort of technical partnership to big movie companies to help develop test rigs/cameras/screens or new technology for screening this in cinemas in the future, then maybe. but to put never before seen*** 3d viewing tech into a home console NO WAY.
Again unlikely as N has no maybe links to the film industry, where as Sony has Sony Pictures. (aka Columbria /Tristar?)
*** never before seen on mass media(widely adopted viewing format) with a bigger public audience than tech demos or v small runs of 3d films in cinemas

EDIT! add to the fact that Nintendo are wheeling out teh corporate line that the see their future games consoles as dropping out of teh polygom arms race and instead concentrating on the playibilty of lower GPX quality games.
this thread and this corporate mission statement dont add up.

Kazaanova

I'll agree its probably bull****. I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, arent the specs of the Revolution generally already known?

System 1: 2.7 Ghz PowerPC G5 Processor 512 Megs total Ram (128 for video, 64 for sound) 600 Mhz graphics chip System 2: Dual 1.8 Ghz IBM G5 PowerPC processors 256 Megs DDR Main memory (64 dedicated to sound, using a 7.1 sound system at 196 Khz) 128 Megs GDDR3 Video memory 500 Mhz graphics chip (ATI developed, 16 Pixel Pipe, 220 Million transistors) Shared Information: Built in 15 Gigabyte harddrive Blue-laser disk technology Potential DVD playback Case design philosophy more like the N64, less like the GameCube

More or less like the 360. If the Revolution had some state of the art 3D technology, wouldnt it be shown in its specs?

flogen

Kazaanova wrote:

More or less like the 360. If the Revolution had some state of the art 3D technology, wouldnt it be shown in its specs?

well, I'm sure they'd be able to hold back on such technology specs if they wanted to.
While I was very impressed by that video, I can't imagine how it could be implemented in a regular home without a lot of messing and so on. If nintendo are going to create something as ground breaking as this, it wont just be the price that will matter it will be the accessability.

Until now all I heard about the revolution was its apparently groundbreaking controllers... I'm not sure what was great about them though.

bounty

i had those 3d specs for the pc

the only reason they worked ok for me, was i had a monitor that could do 120hz at 800x600

running at anything below this gave me a headache, so i cant see this being released anytime soon for home tvs

gta3 did look very cool, everything really had depth, i wish i didnt step on them by accident now

stevenmu

cregser wrote:

stevenmu, what do you mean by it works with any CRT monitor or LCD display?

BloodBath wrote:

How is that going to work with a standard tv? Will you not be getting half the refresh rate of the tv for each eye which means your going to be getting 12.5fps-15fps on a standard tv.

Kind of, it works at half the screen refresh rate, not the fps rate, so for standard TVs that's half of 50/60Hz which means 25/35 'flickers' per second to each eye. Basically the way it works is that the game renders it's scene as normal, at the driver/hardware level the nVidia card re-renders the scene at a slightly different angle and both renders get stored in the cards picture buffer. Instead of outputting just the one render at the refresh rate of your display it alternates between the two and keeps sending them out until the next frame is ready to be displayed. The glasses are connected to a dongle that sits between your video card and the monitor that keeps the glasses shutting in synch with the display.

Because it effectivly halves the refresh rate of your screen you really want to use it on one with a high refresh rate, I've found anything below 85Hz gives eye strain after a few hours. I used it on a 32" TV for a while and the effect was amazing but my eyes would get very strained after an hour or so.
With 100Hz TV screens, which are fairly common nowadays, probably very
common in the US/Japan, you would get 50Hz effective which would be pretty good.

BloodBath

Yeah I was thinking that was the case. Sure it's great for people with 100hz tv's but tbh what % of the market would have them? I'd be surprised if it was 50% If this is their revolution they can keep it tbh.


BloodBath

cregser

Corben Dallas, you're over estimating the difficulty of implementing 3D stereo viewing in a console. The only problem with implementing it is that the computer has to continously render 2 points of view - slowing the console down. Since console games are tweaked so precisely to their specific consoles, any extra processing (suchs as stereo viewing) may have caused slow down problems. I'd say that's one reason Nintendo held back on the GC. The Broadway chip probably does this extra processing without batting an eyelid, so to speak.

Bounty, from the research that I did, I've found shutter glasses to be cack. If you have any flickering backround light (like TVs or flourescent lamps) that operate at different frequencies to the shutter glasses, it can cause problems. Also refresh rate is reduced etc. etc. Nintendo may want to sell VR goggles as an alternative to shutter glasses if they're going to be relying on this 3D tech at all.

BloodBath

Decent sterio vision glasses cost a 1500-2000e and upwards so you can definitly rule them out. If they are implementing it then it can only be shutter glasses which still have a lot of problems. I really don't see them implementing this technology as it's still severly flawed. It's rumors and nothing more.


BloodBath