driving annoyances

wheres me jumpa

i came across two things that irritate me so much today...

1-people who think ramps are pedestrian crosses. admittedly some are, and cars are slowing down at this point but it does not give people the right to march out onto a ramp without looking.

2-people who dont use indicators!!!! especially when your on a busy roundabout and need to know when a chance to get out is coming!

The_B_Man

ye i noticed number 2 in carlow a lot. nobody ever uses indicators in carlow. its ridiculous. drives me up the wall too when ur waitin for ppl to come round then they turn off early. or if ur watin at a T junction for them to drive past then they turn off, so u didnt have to wait at all!

i blame the schools!

wheres me jumpa

number two happened me up at the roundabout near tesco/woodies around 5pm, argh!!!! and number one happened me in john sweeny park.

The_B_Man

ye i live up by that roundabout. thats where I was talkin about. the "T" junction I was talkin bout is up past woodies and Aldi. dunno where john sweeney park is though. i dont even drive but as a passenger, it even gets annoyin.

The General

The_B_Man wrote:

ye i noticed number 2 in carlow a lot. nobody ever uses indicators in carlow. its ridiculous. drives me up the wall too when ur waitin for ppl to come round then they turn off early. or if ur watin at a T junction for them to drive past then they turn off, so u didnt have to wait at all!

i blame the schools!

Agree with you mate, i fcuking hate people who dont use indicators, if i come to a round about and i see someones not using an indicator most times(if its safe enough) il drive out in front of them. :mad:

wheres me jumpa

its not even a matter of courtesy its a matter of safety also!

LadyJ

Indicator thing pisses me off so much! Even if it's broken it's like,bring a torch!

wheres me jumpa

LadyJ wrote:

Indicator thing pisses me off so much! Even if it's broken it's like,bring a torch!

a torch or a flame from hell satan?!

LadyJ

wheres me jumpa wrote:

a torch or a flame from hell satan?!

Yeah,I just breath fire out my window as I'm turning

Victor

LadyJ wrote:

Yeah,I just breath fire out my window as I'm turning

Thats what you get for not using protection.

causal

The General wrote:

Agree with you mate, i fcuking hate people who dont use indicators, if i come to a round about and i see someones not using an indicator most times(if its safe enough) il drive out in front of them. :mad:

But if they're taking the second exit then they shouldn't indicate until they are passing the first exit, so, uh, what if you are at that first exit and pull out in front of them :eek:

Ppl who don't indicate are a pita. As are ppl who do indicate - but incorrectly - especially at roundabouts - but the rules of the road are ambiguous about this - so it's not surprising really :rolleyes:

Anyway, I never trust peoples indicators - so even if they were indicating I'd wait until they had passed or taken their turn or whatever before I commit to my move. I've lost count of the number of times somebody indicates they're turning left while I'm waiting to get out - but they don't take the turn and just sail on - into what would have been me if I had pulled out :mad:

causal

AMurphy

LadyJ wrote:

Indicator thing pisses me off so much! Even if it's broken it's like,bring a torch!

Who needs indicators if you have excellent accelerator response.

daymobrew

causal wrote:

Ppl who don't indicate are a pita. As are ppl who do indicate - but incorrectly - especially at roundabouts - but the rules of the road are ambiguous about this - so it's not surprising really :rolleyes:

http://www.iol.ie/~pt/roadrule.html
I think that the rules for roundabouts are quite clear.
1) Indicate before you exit
2) If taking the second exit, do not indicate right but indicate left after passing the first exit.
3) If taking the third or subsequent exit, indicate right until you pass the second last exit when you indicate left.

I've never read the actual Road Traffic Act wording.
The National Safety Council ran a series of ads last year about how to indicate correctly on roundabouts. It seems like those that didn't use their indicators missed it each time.

MrPudding

causal wrote:

Anyway, I never trust peoples indicators - so even if they were indicating I'd wait until they had passed or taken their turn or whatever before I commit to my move. I've lost count of the number of times somebody indicates they're turning left while I'm waiting to get out - but they don't take the turn and just sail on - into what would have been me if I had pulled out :mad:

causal

I am the same. Indicators are not legally binding. If you pull out on the basis that someone is indicating and he does not turn and drives into you, you are at fault not him.

Better safe than sorry.

MrP

ando

The_B_Man wrote:

nobody ever uses indicators in carlow. its ridiculous.

Carlow must be full of BMW drivers then :rolleyes:

The General wrote:

if i come to a round about and i see someones not using an indicator most times(if its safe enough) il drive out in front of them. :mad:

I dont do that myself as I'd be liable if something did happen but I usually just give the ppl a fright if I can by pretending to jump onto the roundabout. They soon get it

causal

daymobrew wrote:

http://www.iol.ie/~pt/roadrule.html
I think that the rules for roundabouts are quite clear.
1) Indicate before you exit
2) If taking the second exit, do not indicate right but indicate left after passing the first exit.
3) If taking the third or subsequent exit, indicate right until you pass the second last exit when you indicate left.

If that was all the rotr said it would be quite clear. But it isn't...
... if you look at the rules of the road - it also talks about left turn, straight ahead, and right turn. Check out [URL=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/36227/10740.jpg[/URL]

These are two totally different systems, the following 3 statements are not always true:
1st exit = left turn
2nd exit = straight ahead
3rd exit = right turn

That's why I say the rotr are ambiguous.


causal

declanoneill

causal wrote:

If that was all the rotr said it would be quite clear. But it isn't...
... if you look at the rules of the road - it also talks about left turn, straight ahead, and right turn. Check out [URL=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/36227/10740.jpg[/URL]

Am I missing something here. The Rules of the road refers to third of subsequent exit, it never mentions left or right. Maybe I'm losing it but I can't see the ambiguity.

seamus

declanoneill wrote:

Am I missing something here. The Rules of the road refers to third of subsequent exit, it never mentions left or right. Maybe I'm losing it but I can't see the ambiguity.

You're correct. The rules of the road only refers to 1st, 2nd, etc exits, it doesn't mention left or right.

However, the spirit of the ROTR assumes that, at the very least the second exit is off to the left or straight ahead. Quite often however, the first exit off a roundabout is going straight ahead, and the second exit is in fact a right turn, where clearly the rules, as laid in the ROTR aren't correct. It wouldn't make logical sense to *not* indicate right, if you were taking a second exit which was a right turn.

In a sense, the signals could mean this:

1st exit: I'm signalling left, because I intend to go left

2nd exit: I'm not signalling, because I intend to go straight ahead. However, I am signalling just before my exit so you know that I'm going off. This lets you know that I haven't simply forgotten to use my indicators, and assures you that I am not turning right.

3rd or subs.: I'm signalling right, because I intend to turn right/u-turn.

These interpretations are clearly at odds with the ROTR.

causal

Dude - your observation sucks :eek:
Look at [URL=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/36227/10740.jpg[/URL]
Do you see halfway doen the page the big red squares with the white writing...
- MAKING A LEFT TURN
- TRAVELLING STRAIGHT AHEAD
- MAKING A RIGHT TURN

- these are the headings accopmanying the illustrations of the roundabout.

causal

seamus

Actually, as causal now points out, the ROTR are quite clearly at odds with themselves, and on the same page!

prospect

Lads, I think they are perfectly clear,

A bit of common sense is all that is required here, the first exit can be considered left.

If the first exit is physically straight, then so be it, you would still signal left.

The second exit is considered straight, so do not signal, but when you are just past exit one, signal left.

All subseuqent exits are considered right, so put on the right indicator, but just when you past the last exit before yours, signal left.

So if you want to go around the roundabout 5 times and then go back the way you came, put on the right indicator (because you are not taking either of the first two exits), do your 5 laps, and just when you pass the last exit before yours, hit the left indicator.

Perfectly simple.

declanoneill

causal wrote:

Dude - your observation sucks :eek:

That it does :rolleyes:

I was paying attention to the instructions rather then the pictures. Well spotted though.

Keyzer

Indication is very annoying in this country but one thing thats even worse is the not knowing what to do when on or approaching a roundabout.

Example (apologies if i confuse some people with this description) - roundabout on a dual carriage way... approaching from a lesser road (with 2 lanes) to enter or cross the carriage way. In the left hand lane, you can either turn left onto the carriage way or go straight across the carriage way. In the right hand lane you can go straight across the carriage way or go right, around the roundabout and join the carriage way.
A perfect example of this is the roundabout at the end of Auburn Ave in Castleknock, which connects to the navan road.

The amount of times people in the right hand lane, who are turning left even though they are in the wrong lane, have almost crashed into me when I try to cross the carriage way from the left lane is unbelievable, even with the massive arrows on the ground telling people where they can and can't go. On one occasion I waved my trusty rules of the road at someone because they thought I was in the the wrong lane.....
That really, really gets on my nerves....

causal

prospect wrote:

Lads, I think they are perfectly clear,
A bit of common sense is all that is required here,

Common sense isn't that common i.e. what makes 'sense' to you may not make 'sense' to someone else. That's why not everyone uses the system you described
My common sense tells me to go by exit number because it is most simple and there is no driver interpretation involved.

Both systems work well in certain situations but work poorly in other situations.

And in the absence of clear guidelines from the rotr we are left with ambiguity and uncertainty and we both employ our different systems, equally right (and equally wrong).

causal

prospect

causal wrote:

Both systems work well in certain situations but work poorly in other situations.

I do understand and appreciate your point.
But what i partly meant, and should have explained it clearer, was common sense on the part of the person making the signal, and the person watching.
In other words, although our understanding differs, slightly, if i saw you on a roundabout I would be perfectly clear of your intentions, even though i would work it differently.

The problem is people who just make up their own signalling system, or lack there of.....

dealgan

Indicators ?
Aren't they the things that you switch on when you're double-parked outside the paper shop, so that other people can see you're blocking the road, andthey'll just have to wait until you come back ?

You know - the funny switch with the red triangle shape on it ?

prospect

dealgan wrote:

Indicators ?
Aren't they the things that you switch on when you're double-parked outside the paper shop, so that other people can see you're blocking the road, andthey'll just have to wait until you come back ?

You know - the funny switch with the red triangle shape on it ?

You must 'operate' a Blah Mah Wahh

dealgan

Ah yes, I got the technical term from the owners manual ..

Die Blinkenleiten Tickentocken

Dagon

The worst thing of all has to be those annoying fecks who drive along in the fast lane of a dual carriageway at 60mph... arrrgghhhhh....

Dagon

and outright REFUSING to get the feck into the slow lane... even when you've been behind them for more than 5 minutes

CrowdedHouse

Or how about a thing I've notice a lot of down this neck of the woods lately,what I call the Poor Mans artic - ie a large 4x4 agricultural tractor drawing large trailers like a dump truck or carrying huge excavators etc doing 20/25 mph and causing miles of tailbacks.Probably running on agri diesel as well,though I'd say very few are farming related.

BrianD3

Or how about a thing I've notice a lot of down this neck of the woods lately,what I call the Poor Mans artic - ie a large 4x4 agricultural tractor drawing large trailers like a dump truck or carrying huge excavators etc doing 20/25 mph and causing miles of tailbacks.Probably running on agri diesel as well,though I'd say very few are farming related.

Very good point. This is extremely dangerous at night as the tractor trailer combinations are often unlit or else have blinding and confusing rearward facing *white* floodlights

I'd say the reason for this use of tractors is they are cheaper to buy and tax than trucks. Also what are the age and licence requirements for driving a tractor? Isn't it 16 with no driving test needed. Again this reduces costs. As we all know, things are so tight in the building industry these days that contractors have to cut costs to stay afloat :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BrianD3

0utshined

No indicators!!!!!!!

It's a real pet peeve with me. I don't claim to be the best driver in the world but dammit at least I let people know when I'm turning. It causes so many delays on the road.

I've become a real hardass about it too. Usually if someone is trying to get from a side road across to the other lane i've no problem holding back and letting them go but if they don't have that indicator on it's not happening.

A$$A$$IN

The worst has to be a first time mother who insists on buying a 56 seater bus (mild exageration) to transport her only child. Ppl think that as soon as you start a family you have to own an suv or mpv or mini-bus as i call them and they simply cant drive them. Pisses me off... :mad:

Our man in Havana

I hate self rightous drivers who think its their job to enforce the law. I mean those that drive at excatly 50km/h in the middle of the road so you can't overtake them.
Arrrrggggghhhh!

AMurphy

wheres me jumpa wrote:

i came across two things that irritate me so much today...
....
2-people who dont use indicators!!!! especially when your on a busy roundabout and need to know when a chance to get out is coming!

I hate round abouts, I think nobody knows how to use them, because they are inherently unuseable and faulty by design and made worse by implementation.
I think their best use would be as bulls eyes for bombing practice.

If a RA has 3 lanes, who ever used the center one?. If you have 2/3 lanes entering, it means you have to change lanes and cross traffic, either slower or faster to get off, (eventually).
An indicator could mean you are planning to do a few revolutions, or the next exit.....

Unless they are about the size of St. Stephens Green Park, they are too small.
An artic + trailer occupies 2 lanes or simply drives over them.

People stop too often when approaching them, so bringing the whole line of traffic to a halt, of course the traffic on the actual RA is so closely packes and never stops, that it is impossible to get going again......

I know of only one way to approach then, ..... in 2nd gear with the engine at 5K. and the other foot hovering over the brake pedal. An forget about indicators... watch the angle of the steering wheels.

The ones over/off the M50 are equally useless, even if bigger in places.

daymobrew

Keyzer wrote:

A perfect example of this is the roundabout at the end of Auburn Ave in Castleknock, which connects to the navan road.

The amount of times people in the right hand lane, who are turning left even though they are in the wrong lane, have almost crashed into me when I try to cross the carriage way from the left lane is unbelievable, even with the massive arrows on the ground telling people where they can and can't go. On one occasion I waved my trusty rules of the road at someone because they thought I was in the the wrong lane.....
That really, really gets on my nerves....

I know this roundabout well - every day I cycle through the mini roundabout back on Auburn Avenue, navigating the cars parked on the yellow box. Grrr.

If it gets on your nerves then report them to the Gardai and ask for a caution. Tell the Garda that if the person gives you lip you'll go to court. Since the Gardai aren't going to do their job you have to do it for them.

I know that people use the right lane to turn left because it gets them onto the Navan Road quicker than waiting in line in the left lane.

I have to ask: why don't you use the right lane and avoid any conflicts?

AMurphy

Keyzer wrote:

......

The amount of times people in the right hand lane, who are turning left even though they are in the wrong lane, have almost crashed into me when I try to cross the carriage way from the left lane is unbelievable, ........

If these RA were designed with any forethought, the car turning immediately 1st left, would never be in the RA in the first place, i.e a little slip road to keep them out of the mess would work wonders.

as I preach, faulty by design and implementation.... I don't really blame the drivers.

Victor

AMurphy wrote:

If these RA were designed with any forethought, the car turning immediately 1st left, would never be in the RA in the first place, i.e a little slip road to keep them out of the mess would work wonders.

Free-flowing left-turning lanes are great for motorists but a nightmare for other users, e.g. a cyclist going straight on, who ends up in conflict with someone turning left at speed.

causal

That's true, slip-roads are a nightmare when cycling.

I remember (in the pre cycle lane, pre QCB days) cycling into the city centre approaching the 2 lane slip-road for UCD - it was an aboslute nightmare to stay on the N11 (go under the underpass); so for safety I'd take the slip road - have to stop at the gates of UCD - cross the road - and then back down the other slip road and along into town :rolleyes:

causal

Canis Lupus

My pet peeves:

Incorrect use of overtaking lane (went to Spain for a week and only seen one person hog the overtaking lane... wonder what the chances of said driver being Irish were?)

Fog lights.

Someone who won't let you overtake them.

Finally a favorite relating to the above and applies only to small rural roads someone who craaaaaaawls around bends and the minute there is a straight and possible overtaking situation put their foot to the floor so you can't overtake them (not intentionally I think, just the way some ppl drive)

Oh and one other thing.... Stupid overtakers who seem to have blatent disregard for their lives and other road users especially those punters you see on long drives like Kerry to Dublin where they basically drive up the middle of the road as if they have their own private lane forcing both same direction and oncoming traffic into the hard shoulder. Always wondered what it is they are risking their lives for. Even seen one car do this in fog so bad I could just make out the lights of the car ahead of me. They are all fecking crazy.

AMurphy

Victor wrote:

Free-flowing left-turning lanes are great for motorists but a nightmare for other users, e.g. a cyclist going straight on, who ends up in conflict with someone turning left at speed.

I fail to see how it adds or subtracts from the nightmare. Fast free flowing traffic and bicycles mixed are a nightmare for both parties.
and you do not need a RA to demonstrate how cars forget they have not passed a cyclist and suddently turn left. I have had my share of incidents on bikes too.

causal

AMurphy wrote:

I fail to see how it adds or subtracts from the nightmare. Fast free flowing traffic and bicycles mixed are a nightmare for both parties.

Because if you're cycling along a road and there are no turn offs (slip roads, junctions etc.) then cars tend not to want to move left off their lane (crossing the cyclists path) and mount the kerb.

But when there are turn offs (slip roads, junctions etc.) then cars do tend to want to move left off their lane (crossing the cyclists path) and join the slip road. That's the added nightmare for cyclists.

causal

AMurphy

causal wrote:

.....

But when there are turn offs (slip roads, junctions etc.) then cars do tend to want to move left off their lane (crossing the cyclists path) ......
causal

Just like when they want to turn off into petrol pumps, parking spots, Down side streets, etc, and you are still on their rear door/wheel..... no difference that I see.
It's a blind idiot in a car cutting you off.

But I'll take your point as valid and I'm sure there is a way around it also.

Ernie Ball

causal wrote:

Dude - your observation sucks :eek:
Look at [URL=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/36227/10740.jpg[/URL]
Do you see halfway doen the page the big red squares with the white writing...
- MAKING A LEFT TURN
- TRAVELLING STRAIGHT AHEAD
- MAKING A RIGHT TURN

- these are the headings accopmanying the illustrations of the roundabout.

I don't think there's anything ambiguous about it. The text explains the rules. The illustrations give an example. So, if you were on a roundabout that looked like the illustration (which is the most common sort), you would signal as shown in the illustration. If you are on any other sort of roundabout, you signal as described in the text.

You can hardly fault them for not having illustrations of every sort of roundabout one might encounter. That would be even more confusing for the novice motorist.

highdef

Orignally poster by Damobrew:
I have to ask: why don't you use the right lane and avoid any conflicts?

Why should he or I (I have used that roundabout on numerous occassions and have the same problem) also break the law just so it suits the law breakers. That's a stupid answer. So if one person decides to drive up a bus lane, it's ok for everyone else to do so too then. Or if one driver decides to take a shortcut up a one way street, it's ok for everyone else to follow? Get with it, for fecks sake. If some one tries to cut me up here, which is usually always the case, I give them a serious blast of the horn and a bit of fist shaking. I've had one man who got out of his car after one such incidence and started shouting abuse at me in the window. I calmy explained to him that he was in the wrong lane and that he had cut me up, almost causing an accident. He was having none of it so I dialled 112 and simply told him I was calling the guards. He went back to his car then. Once the traffic got moving, he tried the old "drive at 2 miles per hour" routine to try annoy me but as I'm normally very calm and collective when driving (except this roundabout - this is the only place where I've experienced a touch of road rage and it's easy to understand why), this didn't bother me in the slightest. The drivers behind me soon began honking their horns.
Rant over

causal

AMurphy wrote:

Just like when they want to turn off into petrol pumps, parking spots, Down side streets, etc, and you are still on their rear door/wheel..... no difference that I see.
It's a blind idiot in a car cutting you off.

But I'll take your point as valid and I'm sure there is a way around it also.

The difference is that sliproads are designed so that cars don't have to slow down - whereas with petrol pumps, parking spots etc. they do have to slow down.

But yeah, the real problem is the drivers behaviour.
One way around it is like the Balrothery interchange of the M50/N81 - where the cycle track has it's own underpass - but that's kinda pricey.

causal

causal

Ernie Ball wrote:

I don't think there's anything ambiguous about it. The text explains the rules. The illustrations give an example. So, if you were on a roundabout that looked like the illustration (which is the most common sort), you would signal as shown in the illustration. If you are on any other sort of roundabout, you signal as described in the text.

You can hardly fault them for not having illustrations of every sort of roundabout one might encounter. That would be even more confusing for the novice motorist.

Before I begin - I'm not knocking anyones opinion on this. Ernie your system has merit, as did prospects, as did mine. Yours is the third common sense interpetation of the roundabout system.

prospect had this interpretation - indicate according to left turn, straight, right turn
I had this interpretation - indicate according to exit number
you have this interpretation - indicate according to exit number or left turn, straight, right turn - a hybrid system

My point is that, whatever the merits of each system, it's ambiguous. And tbh I think the fact that 3 of us came up with perfectly valid systems - which are different - highlights that fact.

causal

daymobrew

highdef wrote:

Why should he or I (I have used that roundabout on numerous occassions and have the same problem) also break the law just so it suits the law breakers. That's a stupid answer. So if one person decides to drive up a bus lane, it's ok for everyone else to do so too then. Or if one driver decides to take a shortcut up a one way street, it's ok for everyone else to follow? Get with it, for fecks sake.

That's quite an interesting interpretation of my question. I suggested using the right lane for safety's sake. Sometimes I'll give up my right of way and let an idiot in rather than have the same idiot side swipe me (on bike or in car). And then I'll report them to the Gardai.

Now, I may have misread the post I responded to. I interpreted:

Keyzer wrote:

when I try to cross the carriage way from the left lane

as meaning that Keyzer is going straight ahead and these people were cutting across from the right.
If I remember correctly the left lane is for left and straight. The right is for straight and right.
If Keyzer is going left I can't picture where the conflict is, but if s/he's going straight then starting in the right lane means no one can cut across.

highdef wrote:

If some one tries to cut me up here, which is usually always the case, I give them a serious blast of the horn and a bit of fist shaking.

I never condone dangerous behaviour and suggested reporting such driving to the Gardai (as I do frequently). I suggest you do the same, especially when someone leaves their vehicle to approach you. Not the reg and follow through by reporting them. Fist shaking will not educate morons, points on a license will.

Our man in Havana

I never condone dangerous behaviour and suggested reporting such driving to the Gardai (as I do frequently). I suggest you do the same, especially when someone leaves their vehicle to approach you. Not the reg and follow through by reporting them. Fist shaking will not educate morons, points on a license will.

Pointless, pardon the pun. I reported a hacket overtaker almost 6 months ago and its still not to court yet!

blastman

One that made my blood boil yesterday: I was approaching the traffic lights just past the fire station going into Finglas village yesterday evening. There's a yellow box painted on the road just outside the entrance to the fire station to keep the exit clear. The traffic was queued back from the traffic lights to the yellow box, so as my exit wasn't clear, I didn't enter the box, leaving a space of about two or three car lengths on the road.

So of course, up toddles Noddy behind me in his nice Micra full of relations, thinks I'm stopped for the good of my health and proceeds to drive round me and park in front of me in the yellow box! :mad: I know, I shouldn't be surprised, but every now and then, I really have to wonder if driving licences were given free inside packets of corn flakes (yes, yes, I know about the amnesty, and this guy looked like the vintage that benefitted from it).