Honour system (pvp) opinions

Dustaz

Starting a new topic to filter out the pve concerns (faction leaders etc)

What do people (especially US players) think of the honour system?

From what i can see its a nightmare. 3 and 4 raid groups camping towns, aoe spam just to get a little honour.

The days of the /wave look like their almost over.

Personally, id like to see honour only gained in certain areas such as BG's, the Arena and other designated 'honour' areas. PVP would still be allowed and encouraged everywhere, but actual honour spam would be moved to areas where people could gather to look for it.

Ivan

I think what its going for is to encourage honourable pks, but without a negative, people wont care, just gank away and if its honourable... well bonus!

The gear is just crazy good so not onlyl should you expect the end of /wave but expect to be pk'ing from day one.

joe.

I think that's the way it will work on pve servers and possibly the rp ones. I can't wait. No real reward for attacking other faction. Perfect timing too as i hit 59 yesterday.

Memnoch

so the system will encourage PvP on the shock horror PVP servers... oh noes :P

i think it's great, look forward to it a lot.
gank or be ganked is always the way a war based mmorpg should be imo

Drakar

Definately no more waving at the enemy heh. Places like Scarlet Monastry will be rather busy :P The US got an extra day subscription due to problems with it on the first day. Hopefully it'll go ok in Europe.

Fenster

I play on Arthas, its a US PvP server.

Its turned the entire Eastern Kingdoms and parts of Kalimdor (Theramore, Gadget and Sunrock off the top of my head) into warzones.

Starting in Southshore, I spent about an hour doing the ol' back and forth with Tarren Mill. Moving to Chillwind to resupply, I got caught up in a Horde raid on the camp. At that point, I had to head over to Kalimdor. Theramore was under attack, with Horde raiding from the sea. We repulsed them easily, but they kept returning.

Flying to Gadget, it was firmly in the hands on the Alliance. Any Horde who popped up died nearly instantly. Reaching Un'Goro, I dropped a few greenie Hordes and then helped push a raid party from Marshal's and the caves behind, where they had dug in.

Hearthing and hitting Stranglethorn to help guild defend Nesingwary's and a few other levelling spots. BB was quiet, weirdly. Only a few people of each side there and neither was in the form to attack.

Heading out, I ganked a Rogue and Warlock who were healing up in the tunnel and a Hunter at the graveyard. The rest of the zone...was nasty. There was intense back and forth at the arena, but as the game was a slideshow in there, my guild left it be. Nesingwary's was a slaughterhouse, you couldn't see the ground for the skeletons. If anyone here was part of a raid on the Hopeslayer, way back when in AC1, you wouldn't be far off.

It was non-stop at Nesingwary's until the Horde finally regrouped at Grom'Gol, ahead of hitting the arena. At that point, I got seperated from my party and got zerged by a second Horde raid group.

The lag is insane and people under 60 are pretty much screwed over, especially with the arena chest in STV, but its PvP like I've rarely seen before in games.

BKtje

i can only imagine what its like.
Im actualy glad my guild rolled on a pve server now (even tho i complained loudly). Gives us a chance to quest as well.

Memnoch

fenster- that sounds like insane fun! looking forward to it

let the carebears have their lame PvE. I want WAR

Matt Simis

Memnoch wrote:

fenster- that sounds like insane fun! looking forward to it

let the carebears have their lame PvE. I want WAR

May I suggest Battlefield to you sir? :rolleyes:


I like PvP, but I like questing and the uneasy interfaction-cooperation. Before the "honour" patch, I could have my cake and eat it..

Yesterday an Alliance rogue (of all classes) and 2 of us Horde partnered up in the Ape caves in UnGoro. We were there for XP, fighting each other would be pointless, but working together without being able to communicate was fun. I really feel sorry that so many peoples first impression of WoW (lvl20 and below) will be non-stop ganking and universal KOS. It will take them an age to get to 60.

The "bring it on" attitude is fine for those at 60ish already (im at 54 btw), but this could very well ruin things for everyone else. I may dedicate some of my time providing anti-alliance cover to lower lvl guildies so at least they have a fighting chance.



Matt

adnans

I can't really get what Blizzard was thinking when they brought this patch in especially with the servers in this state as they are. And nobody can say that Bladefist is running fine. The 386 pc its based on will most likely keel over and die if things like Fenster described happen on it. I'm going to finish my STV quests today and wont return until I ding 60.

-adnans aka Dudevon Duderson

Fenster

That's why I said sub-60 players are screwed. They can't go anywhere without getting attack. I expect it'll die down, aye, but its still going to be rough.

Kairo

Stranglethorn will be hellish, with that new gurubashi arena event. I also plan on getting my quest log for there emptied out.

After that, im just gonna be leveling 10 different alts to 20 in good 'ol uncontested territory..and thats only if the servers don't die from lag. ;D

You can feel the anticpation already..just running around bladefist..we had some awful trouble getting into Scarlet Monastery yesterday, the first few runs were a breeze tho.

DeVore

I have a terrible feeling this is going to cause the game to suck, at least for a while. Thank god for Instances as thats all I do now with my guild. I emptied my STV quest log and filled up on SM, Zul, Uld and other instance quests. I dont mind the wars but it was bad enough in STV on Spinebreaker recently, its going to be slaughter now...

DeV.

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

let the carebears have their lame PvE. I want WAR

wow, theres me thinking that only us players could be this immature.

The way the game in the US after this patch is PURELY PvP. You could take away all the quests, mobs, features and leave only PC's and PC Skills and noone would notice. 3 and 4 raid groups outisde every town AoE spamming for cp's, roving gank squads hitting _anything_ that moves, grey or not with impunity.

Thats not what i signed up for. What i like about wow is the fact that i can lvl up my character and do quests within a pvp ruleset. What I dont like about the patch is that it turns the game into first and foremost a PK game. 5 corpse runs and 4 minute waits to res to kill a single mob is not a lot of fun.

Memnoch, you didnt lvl to 60 because of the thrilling pvp action. You like everyone else playing this game, whether rp, pvp or pve, spent the time because they enjoyed the WoW world and became engaged with it. This patch threatens that engagement on all ruleset servers. Sure, things might calm down in a couple of weeks but why should everyone under lvl 60 have to pay the price of blizz not having the foresight delay this system untill the release of battlegrounds.

Edit: The immaturity I meant is use of the word Carebear which ranks above 'nub' in terms of "Words most likely to be used by a 12 year old"

CodeMonkey

Dustaz wrote:

Memnoch, you didnt lvl to 60 because of the thrilling pvp action. You like everyone else playing this game, whether rp, pvp or pve, spent the time because they enjoyed the WoW world and became engaged with it.

You obviously haven't seen his other posts. He's a mage and likes to go into newbie zones and spam AOE kill groups of questing people cause it's fun :eek: This is what Memnoch and a lot of people on pvp servers want. I am actually thinking of playing on a PVE server as I don't want the pvp action to be the main focus of the game.

Ivan

CodeMonkey wrote:

You obviously haven't seen his other posts. He's a mage and likes to go into newbie zones and spam AOE kill groups of questing people cause it's fun :eek: This is what Memnoch and a lot of people on pvp servers want. I am actually thinking of playing on a PVE server as I don't want the pvp action to be the main focus of the game.

I do, just not until I'm 50+ and defintely not with gank squads.

Cina

Looks crap, to be fair, and don't even get me started on battlegrounds. It feels so rushed and unorganised, which is a shame cause it's such a well made game.

c0rk3r

Aye you'd want to Ding lvl 60 within the next couple of hours or else your pretty screwed.Even getting to instances is going to be a pain in the arse eg, SM

Ivan

Ah, mounts should make things reasonable, for 40+. But 20-40's will be so shafted

Battlegrounds should probably fix alot of these PvP problems. Will confine the PvP to a nice, simple, instance. Where people can PvP as they choose.

Anyway, I'm still hoping that these ganking spree's will be a temporary measure, as people adjust to the changes and take advantage of the new PvP eq

Memnoch

i don't understand. If you want to be able to quest in peace and not be attacked by the enemy then there is the PvE server for that.

The whole point of the PvP server is so that you can be attacked at any time by any one. If you can't deal with that, you shouldn't be on a PvP server. It's really that simple.

Questing and leveling in peace without getting ganked = PvE server.
Constant PvP and gankage = PvP server.

I've got 0 sympathy for ppl whining about not being able to quest or exp on the PvP server.

the simple fact is that you can still PvP on a PvE server. Just turn your flag on when u are in the mood and go raiding. Or go into the battle grounds while they are implemented.

What most people here are asking for is PvE rules on a PvP ruleset server. THe whole POINT of the PvP server is open warfare between the two factions. What a lot of people want is to be able to level to 60 in peace and then be able to attack anyone at all. Which is why they want to be on the "pvp" server. But heaven forbid if they get attacked on the way to 60.

Memnoch

CodeMonkey wrote:

You obviously haven't seen his other posts. He's a mage and likes to go into newbie zones and spam AOE kill groups of questing people cause it's fun :eek: This is what Memnoch and a lot of people on pvp servers want. I am actually thinking of playing on a PVE server as I don't want the pvp action to be the main focus of the game.

na i did that for like 2-3 days after i hit 60, got bored of it very fast, though it was fun while it lasted. I only PvP with 50+ now usually.

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

i don't understand. If you want to be able to quest in peace and not be attacked by the enemy then there is the PvE server for that.[/quest]

I dont want zero danger. I WANT to attack and be attacked while im levelling and questing. Its another flavour in the overall game, and a really fun flavour too. I dont want it to be the ONLY flavour.

The whole point of the PvP server is so that you can be attacked at any time by any one. If you can't deal with that, you shouldn't be on a PvP server. It's really that simple.

I could deal with it just fine under the old system. I have a 60 on US and a 49 in EU plus a ton of alts, all on the pvp servers. When i was making my eu char i had no problem starting again on a pvp server because i felt the balance was just right overall. You dont seem to understand that a lot of people have no problem with pvp, but CONSTANTLY getting attacked and i mean constantly, with no room to do ANYTHING else is the problem.

What most people here are asking for is PvE rules on a PvP ruleset server.

Where exactly did anyone say that? Please point me to the part where we asked for pve rules or no pvp? Nope, i want a pvp server. I just dont want people rewarded for farming me for honour.

THe whole POINT of the PvP server is open warfare between the two factions.

Your missing the magical word "imo" in there. Remember according to blizzrd the factions arent at war. IMO the point of a pvp server is to play the game that was provided within a pvp envoiroment, not just to pvp.

What a lot of people want is to be able to level to 60 in peace and then be able to attack anyone at all.

Like you did?

koneko

Dustaz wrote:

You dont seem to understand that a lot of people have no problem with pvp, but CONSTANTLY getting attacked and i mean constantly, with no room to do ANYTHING else is the problem.

Exactly, there has to be a balance imo. Ganking and PVP, great, but not constantly. There are quests, there are other elements of the game, and I want to be able to enjoy those aswell as killing stinky Alliance.

I'm reserving judgement on the patch for a while. I expect it will be mayhem for a while, but I'm hoping it'll calm down and return to some balance.

It's worth noting that in the history and story, the two factions aren't actually at war. Not in the "kill on sight" sense.

koneko

And this, pretty much sums it up:

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-pvp-en&t=24993&p=1&tmp=1#post24993

A LVL60 will get still get points from killing a LVL48. The LVL60 can fight people his own lvl and get more points, but farming LVL48/50s will be a lot easier (they don't stand a chance unless they're in a group)

Memnoch

koneko - ya good luck finding a large group of level 48's to farm. Seriously anyone who tries to exclusively farm levle 48s is a moron and will get nowhere.

a group of 5 players ganking a 48 = 5 points per player gg really.

Sure if a lvl 60 runs past one he will prolly get ganked. But people who want to farm honor would be stupid running around looking of level 48-50 ppl to kill.

NeoSlicerZ

meh, wish the honour patch had come in last night, 3 of us lvl 41, 43, 46 took out 5 alliance in the high 40s, ridiculously fun

adnans

Tobold says it all.

http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2005/04/why-pvp-wont-make-wow-better-game.html

Are the blizzard devs getting lazy. which takes longer to develop? new continent with new quests and mobs or new mounts and weapons and a reward system? Alliance players shouldn't be worried since we outnumber the horde 1.3 : 1 on bladefist, and if you think skill matters in PvP, read the above link.

-adnans aka DudeVon Duderson

quozl

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=175&factionid=-1&minlevel=60&maxlevel=60&servertypeid=2

A to H Ratio: 1 : 1.1
Activity Ratio: 1 : 1.2

Bladefist horde lvl 60s outnumber alliance 60s by 1.1 to 1. Plus the horde lvl 60s spend on average 20% more time online than the alliance. So at 60 at the moment there is a fairly noticable horde advantage on bladefist. I've seen this myself as I leveled up - the alliance leveling curve seems to be well behind the horde.

I'm sure given time Alliance players will get to 60 and slightly outnumber Horde, but I honestly believe a higher percentage of hardcore (and by that I mean people with daft amounts of time/mmorpg addicts) go horde than alliance. The fact that Horde are outnumbered and yet still have more lvl 60s and higher activity seems to support that. A level 60 only affects pvp balance for the time they're online, so relative activity is very important.

I'd say Bladefist horde will be just fine.

Quozl

koneko

Memnoch wrote:

koneko - ya good luck finding a large group of level 48's to farm. Seriously anyone who tries to exclusively farm levle 48s is a moron and will get nowhere.

I'm not saying they're the smartest in the bunch

Stupid people do stupid things. If they know where to go, they'll have more luck getting people around lvl50, instead of 60. Stupid people don't want a challenge, they want easy kills.

But like I said (I think), I'm not against this, I'm waiting till it's up and running for a few weeks before I decide it's great/crap. The first few days of anything are hectic, this will be no different. Hopefully it'll settle into something good.

ykt0di9url7bc3

Having great fun on PvE...
lvl 17 Troll Rogue... having great fun with the quests wiith the lads in the house.. 1 undead mage, 1 Tauren Warrior, 1 Troll Hunter.....

While the quests and the exploration is cool, we have regular skirmishes with Alliance pissing about in the South barrens... Hopefully when we lvl up more... we can take the fight to them

Memnoch

I dont want zero danger. I WANT to attack and be attacked while im levelling and questing. Its another flavour in the overall game, and a really fun flavour too. I dont want it to be the ONLY flavour.

solution - Play on a PvE server, and when you want to be attacked while questing and leveling simply turn on your PvP flag. When you've had enough, turn it off again.

I could deal with it just fine under the old system. I have a 60 on US and a 49 in EU plus a ton of alts, all on the pvp servers. When i was making my eu char i had no problem starting again on a pvp server because i felt the balance was just right overall. You dont seem to understand that a lot of people have no problem with pvp, but CONSTANTLY getting attacked and i mean constantly, with no room to do ANYTHING else is the problem.

the old system was crap. There was no reward for PvPing, only for PvEing. Which is kind of silly on a PvP server. hell if they made it possible to only gain exp by PvPing on the PvP server i'd be in favor of it. The reason you didn't get attacked much before was because PvP was largely pointless. What's the point in killing someone when they will just res in a few seconds with nothing to loose and nothing for you to gain. Now you gain honor points, which can lead potentially to some nice items, which is great. If you want to do other stuff go in instances, there are pleanty around for each level. Otherwise the PvE servers await. TBH though once the battle grounds are implemented in a month or two (max), then this will no longer be a problem as most PvPers will spend their time there. Meanwhile this gives those of us who have hit level 60 and are tired and bored of constantly farming instances something fun to do.

Where exactly did anyone say that? Please point me to the part where we asked for pve rules or no pvp? Nope, i want a pvp server. I just dont want people rewarded for farming me for honour.

If you dont' want to be constantly attacked, what you are talking about is PvE rules. Let me simplify it.

PvP server = NON-consenual pvp. This means being attacked at any point any time pretty much anywhere. Just because people didn't bother before doesn't mean that it wasn't in the rule set.
PvE server = consensual PvP. Quest when you like, fight when you like, and occasionaly turn on your PvP flag while questing for a bit of extra challenge.

But really, I can't stand PvE carebears whining about open battle on a frigging PvP server.

Your missing the magical word "imo" in there. Remember according to blizzrd the factions arent at war. IMO the point of a pvp server is to play the game that was provided within a pvp envoiroment, not just to pvp.

Let me see.. play the WoW intro... what does it say? "The tenuous pact between the horde and alliance has failed. The drums of war thunder once more". drums of war . The point of a PvP server is to PvP. If you want to do all that other stuff just play PvE and turn on the PvP flag when you want a "pvp environment". Simple solution really.

Also the game is called world of Warcraft

edit - and oh yes... cry more noob

Dustaz

Memnoch wrote:

solution - Play on a PvE server, and when you want to be attacked while questing and leveling simply turn on your PvP flag. When you've had enough, turn it off again.

Once again, no. I like pvp servers and i like pvp. What exactly pvp is and 'should be' ill get into later.

the old system was crap. There was no reward for PvPing, only for PvEing. Which is kind of silly on a PvP server. hell if they made it possible to only gain exp by PvPing on the PvP server i'd be in favor of it. The reason you didn't get attacked much before was because PvP was largely pointless. What's the point in killing someone when they will just res in a few seconds with nothing to loose and nothing for you to gain. Now you gain honor points, which can lead potentially to some nice items, which is great. If you want to do other stuff go in instances, there are pleanty around for each level. Otherwise the PvE servers await. TBH though once the battle grounds are implemented in a month or two (max), then this will no longer be a problem as most PvPers will spend their time there. Meanwhile this gives those of us who have hit level 60 and are tired and bored of constantly farming instances something fun to do.

I think this is the fundamental point were disagreeing on. Bliz's current system rewards and incentivizes pvp with no risk/reward system. It rewards and incentivizes the type of pvp that many people do not like. It encourages zerg raiding, which is just not fun. It encourages 5v1, which is not fun. It encourages the type of play more commonly seen on counterstrike servers. It turns the game into honour farming.

Battlegrounds should fix the zerging in most areas, but i fail to see how it will stop gank squads. The path of least resistance will not be in battlegrounds, it will still be in winterspring, felwood and areas like that.

Lastly, I fully agree that the end game that blizzard have provided gets boring. I spent my last 2 levels running the same instances on the US and can see that without a decent guild to do MC and onyxia, the other instance runs can get boring quick. The lack of advancement is a problem at 60. Thats why i think that HK's should only apply to lvl 60 players. It provides advancement and allieviates all the other major problems with the honour system. Its a pity that blizzard have put their head under the sand and more or less said 'wait till battlegrounds'.

Let me see.. play the WoW intro... what does it say? "The tenuous pact between the horde and alliance has failed. The drums of war thunder once more". drums of war .

So the voiceover on the game now takes precedence to the manual where it says ' the factions are not in open war'? Or where it says theres a system of dishonour?

The point of a PvP server is to PvP.

Again, thats a matter of opinion. In your opinion it is. In mine and many others the point of a pvp server is not solely pvp. Apparently not in blizzards either because there answer to these problems is that when battlegrounds come in, the problems im complaining about will stop (I just dont think they will, but well see)

CivilServant

Until blizzard sort out group ganking, there'll be no honour in pvp. The usual scenario is victory by number not skill. Luckily I'm a mage like memnoch and can aoe, thereby tagging a group of enemies let my alliance buddies kill them off and still get HKs for them. Rogues are goin on the the rampage now. They were already too strong in before the patch, but now they're totally overpowered. Sinister crits for 600+ with one button push, backstab 1000+, eviscerate, forget about it. There is no balance is the current pvp iteration.

Bliz shoud put the honour system on hold until battlegrounds comes out. There I can see it working well, because everyone there will a) be up for pvp fighting b) have an even playing field. Atm bliz doesn't take into account 5 players taking on one player.

On a more positive note I do like participating in giant raids, epsecially in Tauren Mill. The ebb and flow of alliance v horde from TM to SouthShore and back again for 4 hours yesterday lol. It was a lot of fun, racked up 400 HKs. This is what I hope battlegrounds will be like. With strategic points to capture and hold. It was greating standing just behind the front lines and see a hundred horde vying for blood. But what I don't like is a grp of 5+ horde ravaging people who are questing. The days of soloing are over, and if you want to get any decent questing done you're forced to grp much like the EQ days where u basically had to grp to get anything done.

Lvl 56 mage, Mannoroth US server.

Matt Simis

CivilServant wrote:

Until blizzard sort out group ganking, there'll be no honour in pvp. The usual scenario is victory by number not skill. Luckily I'm a mage like memnoch and can aoe, thereby tagging a group of enemies let my alliance buddies kill them off and still get HKs for them.

HK dont really mean anything however.. your rank is not based on that HK figure. Rogues are talked up a lot on forums, but are really more of a concern if you solo a lot. As half of a Mage-Warlock (lvl54) duo, rogues are extremely annoying, but not overpowering..


Matt

Caliden

cant wait till all those ganking noobies find out they get **** all honour points cause of the level difference.
will probably sort it out, once they find out they got 5 points for ganking 200 level 20's and under

tobi

I think it would be nice to see some structured pvping in areas like Gurubashi Arena instead of the current craziness. Hold tournament formats such as 1v1, 2v2 and 5v5 each player pays to enter the tournament with the eventually winner taking the pot and possible winning an epic item. The duelling system is already in place so it shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

DRakE

Dustaz I think the only option for you is to just go play on a pve server...

if u cant take d pain from d horde then u shudn't be on PvP!

Drakar

Interesting blue post on the message boards btw:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2761331&P=1

Dishonor for killing unimportant npcs will be introduced in the next patch (no dishonor for killing players though), battlegrounds (plural) will be in too which they seem to think will reduce the gankage enough, and also a crude estimation of the contribution points added will be displayed after each kill (yay).

Fenster

Well the US servers are a few days ahead of you guys. Other than isolated ganking and big raids (talking SS-TM and Chillwind-Bulwark), 5v5 seems to be the format people are settling on. I spent a good two hours running around WPL earlier in a full party. I got maybe 50 kills in that time (died six times, rawr), all of which, I gather, will count for more than spamming AoEs at TM.

The Corinthian

I’ll have to say I agree and disagree with both Memnoch and Dustaz in various degrees here. I’m on a Normal server, largely because I already had friends playing on it, but also because I had a feeling that playing on a server that had an emphasis on PvP game play was going to cause problems. So now, on the server I’m on, I can still PvP when I fancy or quest / xp if I prefer. So to a degree, what Memnoch says is true - I think too many people jumped onto the PvP servers without considering what it would mean once the honour system kicked in and now they’re regretting their decision.

So to Dustaz I would suggest moving to a Normal server and stop whinging so much. Terenas has a good few Bordsies on it

On the other hand from what I can see the PvP servers are now becoming unplayable for characters between levels 20 and 45-ish. Soloing is out, for a start, and even with company, you still have a good chance that you’ll get whacked and spawn-camped by some level 60 adolescent who lives in some depressing German industrial town where mullets are still fashionable. Or Memnoch. This leaves us with a situation where level progression has become painful to the point of unplayable on PvP servers for the poor sods who are forced into the contested zones without a paddle. Here I just think that Blizzard just hasn’t got the game balance right yet - indeed they seem to admit this and that they are banking on the introduction of the battlegrounds to redress the issue. And if this fails to solve it, then I think that the rules will likely be changed for PvP servers before too long.

So to Memnoch I would suggest starting an alt and seeing how playable it is to work up from level 20 onwards on a PvP server before pontificating any further

Drakar

Levelling is quite possible, but now it needs to be done in groups, and or instances. Solo quests outside of instances require alot of patience and luck. I really wouldn't like to be someone who had the kill 100 spiders so that one might drop something silly in TM quest at the moment though :P

I for one would not be regretting my choice of a PvP server (I think the others might say the same). I think what people are just pointing out is that suddenly it's become alot more difficult than it used to be. Hopefully the scale of this difficulty increase is purely because of the lack of battlegrounds. IMO it will still be more difficult even when battlegrounds come in and take off, but I think that will be ok. What people object to at the moment is that a large proportion of the population are running around purely to gank people, instead of the previous "incidental" gankage.

Dubhthamlacht

For me, lvl 28 Hunter (Muineachain) on Bladefist, the PVP has gone bonkers over the weekend. I couldn't walk around Ashenvale or Hillsbrad without some lvl 60 Alliance bashing me around the head. I enjoy the PVP action but high levels picking on low levels is just a pain in the butt. I know I wouldn't waste my time doing likewise when I hit the higher lvls. I accept that I will get ganked from time to time and god knows, I know I've blasted some alliance to kingdom come when they were mining/fishing/middle of a quest so I'm okay with that. Thats fair game to me but for all the high lvl juvenile muppets with nothing to do they really oughta know better

Dustaz

The Corinthian wrote:

So to Dustaz I would suggest moving to a Normal server and stop whinging so much. Terenas has a good few Bordsies on it

Yeh, i realise i do come across as a total whinger, but thats fine. I just cant believe blizzard made the mistakes with this system that they did. I also doubt id move to a pve server even if they did offer transfers purely because i like pvp and wanted that ruleset.

Incidentally, does anyone else whos played other pvp games find the idea of people calling this system 'true pvp' laughable?

Matt Simis

I would like to mention that after playing every day since the patch was introduced.. things arent so bad.

If you want to get huge Honor Kills (pointless as they are).. goto Tarren Mill. If you want quest, dont solo (solo'ing - which I have to admit is almost anti-RPG). Im pleasantly surprised that people still wave, when out and about questing and they dont want to fight. Unlike others here, I respect that and usually wave back and move on.

Could be very different on other servers (Deathwing here), but the honor patch added a benefit to defending against the ganking.. now when ambushed by higher lvls and winning (or even only killing one), there is some satisfaction that it counts for something.

Funny Moment post-patch:
Lowbies asking for help in SunRock, lvl?? attacking. So I (lvl54 at the time) went there and "supported" the 8 lvl25s against an attack by 3 lvl60s (who obviously dont know they get no points for killing lvl25s). The lvl60s noticed they were taking a lot of damage/DoTs, but couldnt pick out the high lvl player in the mob. They ran and got swarmed and killed by the low lvls.. a good boost to morale for all!



Matt

koneko

Went quite well this weekend. Tarren MIll must be a nightmare to quest in, but to be honest, you don't need to quest there, go somewhere else. I think I did maybe 2 quests there ever, so just avoid the place altogether for now (unless you're raiding), as it's generally the Battlegrounds area atm (on our server anyway - Deathwing).

It'll settle down imo after a few weeks (maybe even less), but I've had some interesting battles that would have just been pass & wave before. Nothing bad so far, but it might be a totally different story for lower levels. Had fun killing 60s yesterday (stupid noob paladins).

Memnoch

cornithian - I think you actually hit the nail on the head there. I think a lot of the people whining now had a very wrong idea of what the PvP server was meant to be like.

The truth is before the honor system there was hardly any difference between PvP and PvE servers except that occasionaly someone would gank you. Whereas in the PvE server no one ever ganked you.

I knew that this is what it would be like once there was an incentive to PvP. And PvP "progression" was in game. So i got to level 60 long ago. And tbh I know pleanty of casual gamers that are level 60 by now.

However there are a couple of common misconceptions that people keep moaning about with regards to the honor system.

1) Honor system encourages grey ganking. This has to be by far the stupidest thing anyone has said about World of warcraft. You get 0 points for killing greys. The fact is that there is no more incentive or reason to kill greys now than there was before the honor system. So to say that the honor system makes level 60's run around killing level 20's is stupidity in the least and purposefully misleading at most. In fact believe it or not the honor system does actually discourage killing greys. Because people would rather spend their time getting honor points. Now off course there are some idiots who don't understand how the honor system works and they "think" that ganking greys will help them somehow. But you can't blame blizzard or the honor system for the actions of such morons.

2) Honor system is causing people to kill all quest npcs. Again retarded. Quest NPC's don't give honor. The only places quest npcs die are big PvP town raids in SS/Tm. And since these are kind of the "unofficial" battle grounds u might as well quest/exp elsewhere. Anyways they are adding in dishonor for low level NPC kills next patch so that should discourage this even more.

ALL the honor system does is to encourage PvP. The fact is that two-three level 48's can easily gank a level 60 caster or run away from a level 60 warrior should they want to.

Also ppl that are worried about "gank squads" when battle grounds come out are also morons. Anyone who wants to farm honor points will try to do this in the most efficient way possible. This will be in the battle grounds. Running around winterspring etc ganking 5-10 lowbies an hour for **** all points is a waste of time.

And yes, the whingers don't belong on PvP servers. All this quest in peace business wrecks my head :P

CivilServant

Matt Simis wrote:

HK dont really mean anything however.. your rank is not based on that HK figure. Rogues are talked up a lot on forums, but are really more of a concern if you solo a lot. As half of a Mage-Warlock (lvl54) duo, rogues are extremely annoying, but not overpowering..


Matt

HK is significant, better to have HKs than not to. Of course contribution points are where the real calculations are done. And I'm saying rogues vs cloths users, esp mages, 1v1 are overpowered. Because when they get the jump on u, blink, frost nova, sheep, then all ur outs are gone and all you can do is kill them or run away. Sap, gouge, cheap shot, kidney shot, blind, sprint, vanish how can u beat that? Rogues have too many options to kill you and/or get away if things go wrong.

So 1v1 they are overpowered, but the more you have in your group the more it evens the playing field.

The Corinthian

Memnoch wrote:

I knew that this is what it would be like once there was an incentive to PvP. And PvP "progression" was in game. So i got to level 60 long ago. And tbh I know pleanty of casual gamers that are level 60 by now.

That’s all very well for you, but for the poor suckers under level 60, it’s little comfort as they find that progression becomes practically impossible. And like it or not, if it get to be unplayable for long enough, then you and the other players who managed to get to level 60 in time will be the only one’s left.

But you can't blame blizzard or the honor system for the actions of such morons.

Well you can - if a game isn’t balanced, it isn’t balanced and it’s their fault. Remember, what we’re supposed to have in WoW is two factions that have antipathy towards each other (a cold war of sorts), what we have at present is out and out war.

Presently PvP is new and everyone’s at it. We can only hope that it’ll die down to a degree as people go back to questing. The eventual introduction of battlegrounds and dishonour points will hopefully further calm the present situation, but until then if you’re between level 20 and 50 or so, you’re screwed - simple as that. And this assumes that these eventual patches actually do solve the problem.

And the longer it remains unplayable for players between level 20 and 50 or so, the more will walk away. After all, games have fallen from favour for less in the past.

quozl

The few lvl 60s who are too dumb to have realised that ganking greys gets them nothing will work it out given a bit more time. Things seem to be calming down a tad in the US aready. I honestly think the cries of impending doom are a bit pre-mature and people need to wait to see how it pans out.

Once battlegrounds comes out that should get a lot of the people who want to pvp out of the levelers hair as well. Though you'll always have the odd rogue twat who likes to stealth around ganking newbies.

quozl

The Corinthian wrote:

And the longer it remains unplayable for players between level 20 and 50 or so, the more will walk away. After all, games have fallen from favour for less in the past.

This I particularly wanted to argue with. The players I know who aren't level 60 are still doing just fine leveling up. Even with the honour system/new toy rush at the moment.

I think you're deliberately being over-dramatic or you need to stop questing in Tarren Mills/STV till people calm down

Caliden

im going on 32rd and im dreading going to STV @_@

feking rogues