Is it bad if you get caught driving by yourself on your 1st provisional?

Funkstard

I mean a load of my friends are now driving by themselves on provisionals, no one really seems to worry if they get stopped by the gardaí. I know it's illegal to drive by yourself, but is it really that bad or do the gards just let it go mostly?
Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks

Kristok

When i was stopped on my provo they just said you know your not allowed to drive without a fully licensed driver and you might not be covered by your insurance if your in an accident. I dont think they can really do anything there would be too many people off the road if they did, well assuming your not acting like an idiot on the road.

seamus

Depends. I think Gardai are supposed to be taking a tougher stance on this. If you're caught and brought to court, you could find yourself banned for 6 months, which will screw your insurance for years to come.

Is it worth the hassle? No matter how good a driver you think you are, you're on a provisional for a reason.

Shrimp

I'd say they will let you off the first time, the second they will take your name, and after that court.

bazz26

I would be more concerned about your insurance being void if you are involved in an accident. Insurance companies look for any "get out" clause these days to prevent them from having to pay out claims and this could be one of them.

seamus

bazz26 wrote:

I would be more concerned about your insurance being void if you are involved in an accident. Insurance companies look for any "get out" clause these days to prevent them from having paying out claims and this could be one of them.

They can't. They can only void any Fully Comp claims, but by law they must honour all third party claims.

Con9903

Its hard to know for certain, you might meet a complete bollocks and he'd do it just to cause you hassle. Then again I've never heard of them causing any hassle. Once you have your L plates up and you give them a good excuse -eg- I've booked my test, I really need the car for commuting and I can't have a named driver here 24/7. Once they don't pull you over for acting the bollo they should be sound enough.

cormie

I was stopped once with L plates up and all that and It was myself and 3 friends in the car. One guy looks about 25 (the fully insured person is supposed to be over 25 by the way) and the Garda did ask do I have a fully licensed driver in the car and he said he was and we were let go. This was a road block check, not a persuit.

another road block check I had no L plates up, I said I was coming from the pub with my friends, the minute I said that he leaned his head in the window and said what and asked if I had a few, I said no I don't drink, he asked me to step out and to let him smell my breath and then I had to walk on the whie road side line. All flawless so he just said present the car with L plates at local station, I said theres a 24 hr shop up the road that sells them, and I said I'd be back in 10 minutes with them. I came back and all was well:)

As long as you don't conk out when your pulling away :rolleyes:

seamus

cormie wrote:

(the fully insured person is supposed to be over 25 by the way)

Not in this country.

How do these myths get started?

Keano_sli

If you don't have a full licence and you don't have a qualified driver with you get off the bleedin road. You're not experienced, You're not qualified and you're a danger and a nuisance to the rest of us!

Seth Brundle

The insurance companys do have to honour the policy but they can and possibly will start recovering their losses from the learner drivers in the future.
Also, as said it depends who pulls you over. If they are in a bad mood or if you were pulled over for something stupid then you will probably get a heavy book thrown at you.
There have also been cases whereby the gardai went out specifically to capture unaccompanied L-drivers. I can recall one such reported incident near Bray.

cormie

Keano_sli wrote:

If you don't have a full licence and you don't have a qualified driver with you get off the bleedin road. You're not experienced, You're not qualified and you're a danger and a nuisance to the rest of us!

I disagree. I'm still on a provisional myself. Yes, at the start I wasn't experienced, but 20 thousand miles later I do feel I have gained enough experience to be considered a safe driver. The waiting list for a full test is ridiculous. And by that your basically saying that the day before somebody passes their driving test, they shouldn't be on the road, but a day later, just because they have a cert of success, they are safe.

Alun

kbannon wrote:

There have also been cases whereby the gardai went out specifically to capture unaccompanied L-drivers. I can recall one such reported incident near Bray.

And why shouldn't they? Damn right too, it's their job isn't it?

I always knew that there were thousands of unqualified drivers on the roads here, but I'm quite frankly shocked to hear that the Gardai are so forgiving when they're caught.

Kristok

Keano_sli wrote:

If you don't have a full licence and you don't have a qualified driver with you get off the bleedin road. You're not experienced, You're not qualified and you're a danger and a nuisance to the rest of us!

Yeah in an ideal world maby but with the waiting lists and the rubbish transport system in ireland most of us dont have a choice for the first few years. Personally im more worried about the so called experienced drivers who drive like nut cases, at least provos are trying not to get noticed by the guards and are generally good drivers if not a little slow at times.

Con9903

Keano_sli wrote:

If you don't have a full licence and you don't have a qualified driver with you get off the bleedin road. You're not experienced, You're not qualified and you're a danger and a nuisance to the rest of us!

Thats just silly

seamus

Kristok wrote:

Yeah in an ideal world maby but with the waiting lists and the rubbish transport system in ireland most of us dont have a choice for the first few years.

"I don't have a choice" is not an excuse. What did you do before you had a car?

Alun

cormie wrote:

I disagree. I'm still on a provisional myself. Yes, at the start I wasn't experienced, but 20 thousand miles later I do feel I have gained enough experience to be considered a safe driver.

The problem is though that I've only got your word for that, and I don't know you from Adam. For all you know, every time you go out, there could be hundreds of other drivers on the road who have to make allowances for your bad driving, of which you're blissfully unaware. That's why they have a test.

Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right.

Alun

Kristok wrote:

Yeah in an ideal world maby but with the waiting lists and the rubbish transport system in ireland most of us dont have a choice for the first few years. Personally im more worried about the so called experienced drivers who drive like nut cases, at least provos are trying not to get noticed by the guards and are generally good drivers if not a little slow at times.

But how do you know that the driver you're accusing of driving like a nut case isn't just like you, i.e. an unqualified driver not displaying their L plates?

Kristok

seamus wrote:

"I don't have a choice" is not an excuse. What did you do before you had a car?

I spent 2 hours each day each way getting to work which was only a 30min drive. Obviously noone needs a car we could all walk that is a totally other issue, people sometimes need a car just to get around and saying that anyone with a provo license should not be on the road is not fair seeing as it takes like a year to get a test.

Alun wrote:

But how do you know that the driver you're accusing of driving like a nut case isn't just like you, i.e. an unqualified driver not displaying their L plates?

I am a fully qualified driver and if someone is in their 30's driving an 05 car and cutting in and out of lanes its a good chance they are not a provo and just a nutcase. Its not exactly hard to see the nutcases in traffic.

cormie

Alun wrote:

The problem is though that I've only got your word for that, and I don't know you from Adam. For all you know, every time you go out, there could be hundreds of other drivers on the road who have to make allowances for your bad driving, of which you're blissfully unaware. That's why they have a test.

Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right.

Well there is of course the IAM Provisional Ignition test, which I passed. So there has to be allowances and understandings.

Seth Brundle

@cormie - driving for 20k or even a million miles does not make one a safe driver! Also, remember, don't presume you are a safe driver, even with a full licence! Also, IIRC, you showed yourself recently here to act in (IMO) an unsafe manner on a motorway.

Anyway, I think what is becomming apparent here is that many people believe that because the test is not adequate then they should by default be allowed out on the roads.

If you are unsatisfied withg the amount of time you need to spend waiting for a test then either apply for a closer date or get onto your local elected representative (or both). When you then fail, don't whinge because the test centre has a failure quota to fill!

Driving is a privilege, not a right - people should not confuse the two!

Seth Brundle

cormie wrote:

Well there is of course the IAM Provisional Ignition test, which I passed. So there has to be allowances and understandings.

WTF???
Allowances and understandings for what? If you don't have a full licence, then you are not fully competent to drive in the eyes of the law!

The Muppet

How many of us have driven on provisionals while unaccompanied, I certainly have . A car isn't a right or a privilige to many people it's a neccessity. I think Learners driving without L plates is a bigger problem and there are thousands of them on the roads, Or at least I hope that the reasoning for bad driving practices we all see from non L plated cars. I can't say I blame them too much though as a lot of lisenced drivers seem to see L plates a fair game for bit of bullying instead of making allowances for them. We were all learners once

Nuttzz

My friends son was stopped in her car, he had no L plates up (as he doesnt use it very often) and didnt have his licence with him. he was just told to bring his licence and insurance to a station within the next 10 days and sent on his way

cormie

In the eyes of the law I shouldn't break the speed limit in the overtaking lane but as I have been told here, I should as it is safer to do the overtake manoever as quickly and safely as possible. In the eyes of the law I'm not competant to be driving alone. I feel I am.

20K miles doesn't mean by default the driver is safe. It's all about what they learn in the 20K.

The incident you are thinking of was not on a motorway.

I came here to see if I was at fault, I accepted I was.

Alun

cormie wrote:

In the eyes of the law I'm not competant to be driving alone. I feel I am.

So, who's giving you feedback on your driving technique all this time you're driving on your own then? Without that, you aren't really in a position to be claiming that you're driving is up to scratch.

cormie

As I said, I passed the ignition test. This is, I feel, enough feedback. I'm not sure but I'd say it is done under the same basis as the full test itself so I'm guessing that if a provisional driver is capable of passing this test, they are capable of passing the full test. I may be wrong, I suppose only somebody on the inside of IAM could inform us.

fletch

seamus wrote:

Not in this country.

How do these myths get started?

I always thought it was the case where you had to have a fully licenced driver >=25yrs in the car with ya?

fletch

fletch wrote:

I always thought it was the case where you had to have a fully licenced driver >=25yrs in the car with ya?

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html

Car drivers (category with a provisional licence must be accompanied at all times by, and under the supervision of, a person with a current full driving licence to drive a car. (The only exception to this, is where the driver holds a second provisonal driving licence to drive a car).

You're right....it doesn't specify the full licenced driver must be 25+yrs

BrianD

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

While this move would certainly cause difficulty for many there are just far too many provisional drivers on the roads - some seem to be long term provisional drivers. I have even heard of people using addresses in different counties to obtain more provisional licences!

Also there should be a point penalty for full licence drivers who display L plates when they are driving as there is in the UK.

Con9903

In all fairness the driving test still doesn't certify that a person is a good driver as some of them get lucky on that one day and pass.

Merrion

It is probably not too bad if you are caught as the courts have better things to deal with, but if you have an accident while driving unnacompanied on a first provisional you could be looking at a world of pain. (Most likely a disqualification, possibly a loss adjustor suing you for the full cost of the incident plus legal fees)

I personally wouldn't (and didn't) but the decision is yours.

Kristok

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

While this move would certainly cause difficulty for many there are just far too many provisional drivers on the roads - some seem to be long term provisional drivers. I have even heard of people using addresses in different counties to obtain more provisional licences!

Also there should be a point penalty for full licence drivers who display L plates when they are driving as there is in the UK.

It will never happen, insurance companies make a fortune off of young people on provo license.

Why would you want to stop people with full license displaying an L plate ?!? what exactly would that change.

bp_me

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

While this move would certainly cause difficulty for many there are just far too many provisional drivers on the roads - some seem to be long term provisional drivers. I have even heard of people using addresses in different counties to obtain more provisional licences!

Also there should be a point penalty for full licence drivers who display L plates when they are driving as there is in the UK.

While I dont disagree with you, a waiting period of upto and including 60 weeks makes this impractical. If the waiting time were to drop so you could do a test say every 6 weeks this would be possible (almost).

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Im a 21 year old guy. Ive been driving motorbikes for just under 4 years. Never had a crash or a claim and ive a full motorbike licence. Im planning to get insured on a car aswell, which i will not use very often. I will have a fully licenced driver with me until im totally comfortable in the car, but after that i do intend to drive on my own in the car if i need to.

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

peasant

I don't understand what all this whinging, moaning and stretching of the law is all about ...consider yourselves lucky that there is something like a provisional licence, that allows you to get driving experience (under supervision by a licensed driver) at all.

In other countries (e.g. Germany) you are not allowed onto the road unless you have a full licenence. In order to even get that, you must show so many hours of driving lessons (with professional instructor, dual controls car) x-amounts of hours in town, x hours overland, x hours motorway and night driving. Costs SERIOUS money !! (My licence with the minimum of hours over 20 years ago already cost the equivalent of 700 euros ...these days you can't get the hours and fees paid under 1200 - 1500 Euro :eek: ) and if you fail the test, you keep on paying until you finally pass.

If you want to drive a bike or truck on top of that, you have to start from scratch again ...take all the lessons, all the theoretical tests, etc ...fork out onother 1200 Euros for every licence.

Bri

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

Exactly. My god I remembed why I stopped reading this forum. Cormie it was your mind-numbing thread asking why you got harassed for stopping to collect people each morning at some blatantly unsuitable location, making me realise I didn't want to voluntarily read annoying posts - it's bad enough trying to drive around the multiple muppets. Sure the system is majorly flawed, but so is the transport system; doesnt mean you have the right to not pay the fare on the bus or drive in the bus lane, just cause you need to get to work.

It's the law. I hope they clamp down on it and punish you all. Oh and I had a friend who got caught doing it and breaking the speed limit and he got plenty of hassle.

Seth Brundle

The Muppet wrote:

A car isn't a right or a privilige to many people it's a neccessity.

really? And how did they cope before they had a car? Nothing, except food, water, good health and shelter are necessities!

cormie wrote:

In the eyes of the law I'm not competant to be driving alone. I feel I am.

You feel you are! I feel Im better than Mick Schumacher but that doesn't make it so!

cormie wrote:

The incident you are thinking of was not on a motorway.

I was thinking of the overtaking on the M50 thread - fair enough it may not have been you. Anyway, you were the one who decided to stop on a busy slip road to pick up your mates!

BrianD wrote:

personally, I think the rule should be rigourously enforced for all provisional drivers. There is a very easy way of doing it - the insurance companies should insist that there is no cover if you don't abide by the rules.

Insurance companys should not be our law enforcers.

Con9903 wrote:

In all fairness the driving test still doesn't certify that a person is a good driver as some of them get lucky on that one day and pass.

True but it is the only test we have that allows someone to drive 'unrestricted' on our roads

BrynW wrote:

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

And why not? Riding a bike is qiute different to driving a car.

seamus

BrynW wrote:

I think here is where the problem lies, i will be treated the same as any other person who has just started driving a car even tho ive 4 years experiance under my belt.

It's actually necessary, and you won't realise why until you've been driving a car for a while. Rules of the road aside, driving a car and driving a bike are two quite different animals.

cormie

I was thinking of the overtaking on the M50 thread - fair enough it may not have been you. Anyway, you were the one who decided to stop on a busy slip road to pick up your mates!

Oh, that was me too I thought you were talking about the stopping to pick my friend up one... which as I said, once I realised it was wrong, I stopped doing it and met the guy at the different point suggested to me. So Bri, I respect everyones oppinions, the more I get the better, so don't abandon the forums for the likes of my previous questions. I'm only trying to make myself safer so if and when we do cross paths, I wont crash into you :rolleyes:

Edit: regarding the overtaking, I realise the dangers involved and even though I'm very cautious about getting into the same situation. Now I never did before, but after reading the "Flashing to overtake" thread, it's ironic because I noticed myself having to flash at many people in the fast lane when it was late and night and there were no cars in the left hand lane and they were doing about 70 in the overtaking lane. I didn't overtake them in the left hand lane, I just flashed, they went left and I overtook them then. Again, if you think I'm some speedy boy, I'm not, I go the limits and don't break them unless necessary, which is extremely seldom. I'm not one of these people who do 70 in a 60 zone and continue doing 70 in a 75 zone. I can only improve whatever my flaws may be.

On a side note, what are the waiting lists for tests in Germany?

PlayaFlow

I was driving down the n3 when i was 17 on my first prov , doin 60 mph in the bus lane in the car on my own, with no L-plates and not wearing my glasses (it says i need em on my licence, but i see fine ). 2 gardai stopped me asked for my licence ( i was crappin my self at this stage ) looked at it, handed it back with a 35euro fine. and said "pay within 30days, now off you go"

Another time a Garda car was pullin out of a petrol station , i flew by at 80mph and cut accros 2 lanes to make a exit (of course with no cars in the way , obviously) He pulled me over and said "slow down ya feckin Lunatic" quite angry. I sincerley apologized and gave my reasons, he then said be more carefull in future .
I stupidly asked "would u like to see my licence sir?" ...(i dont know why) , he said "no youre fine, good luck!"

they were the only times i have ever been pulled over by the gardai!

What a nice a reasonable bunch of people!!!!

PS. i dont usually drive like that ,but 3 years later and i have never touched off another car, although a moped did smash into me once. ...and legged it.

PlayaFlow

i should also add that i got my full licence that same year , first time round when i was 17. with only one fault ( pay more attention to the left when turning right)
first time i ever put on L-plates was driving in to the test centre, hehe.

im a really good driver have over 25k now , not a bother on anyone.

30-6shooter

Another time a Garda car was pullin out of a petrol station , i flew by at 80mph and cut accros 2 lanes to make a exit (of course with no cars in the way , obviously) He pulled me over and said "slow down ya feckin Lunatic" quite angry. I sincerley apologized and gave my reasons, he then said be more carefull in future .

Lol,, ,thats class.

Sure we all have to learn somewhere. Theres way too much bull**** made of all this whole driving lark. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to drive a car reasonably well. Its all a money racket hidden up in a cloud of "safety" political correctness crap.

To the people driving on their 1st provs unaccompanied: I wouldnt lose sleep over it. Just have your test booked and pass it soon as possible.

My only problem regaring all this, are long term provisionals who never plan to actually pass whatever thats all about :rolleyes:

The General

Con9903 wrote:

Thats just silly

No your just silly what he says is the truth if you havent got a full license and you havent got a full license driver with you get the fuk off the road, its the law

30-6shooter

No your just silly what he says is the truth if you havent got a full license and you havent got a full license driver with you get the fuk off the road, its the law

Actually, its only the law if your on a first provisional!

PlayaFlow

30-6 Shooter , youre absolutley right word for word . way to big of a deal is made of all this crap. U either can drive or u cant , who gives a crap bout L-plates and all prov , just apply for your full and and hope u get it just to shut evryone up.
Its not like you go into test center a crap driver and you caome out a good one because you have a cert of competency!!

If its there....its been there from the beggining!!! is what i always say!

Hotblack Desiato

30-6shooter wrote:

Actually, its only the law if your on a first provisional!

No. You're only allowed drive a car unaccompanied on a second provisional. Third or subsequent provisional, you must be accompanied.

PlayaFlow wrote:

way to big of a deal is made of all this crap. U either can drive or u cant , who gives a crap bout L-plates and all

Most people in Ireland can't drive for toffee, full licence or not, but they all think they're great. FFS we have people on boards with no experience who think they'll be "grand" after 2 or 3 lessons.
Trust me your perspective will change when someone close to you is needlessly killed on the roads.
Driving is a privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege not to be taken lightly.

kikel

cormie wrote:

I disagree. I'm still on a provisional myself. Yes, at the start I wasn't experienced, but 20 thousand miles later I do feel I have gained enough experience to be considered a safe driver. The waiting list for a full test is ridiculous. And by that your basically saying that the day before somebody passes their driving test, they shouldn't be on the road, but a day later, just because they have a cert of success, they are safe.

20,000 miles later and you havn't taken your test yet. You should of taken it at least once by now. Comparing you to an average driver 20,000 miles equal 1.5 years driving. No waiting list is that long. If it is go to another county.

If your a safe driver you would have done and passed your test by now.

cormie

kikel wrote:

20,000 miles later and you havn't taken your test yet. You should of taken it at least once by now. Comparing you to an average driver 20,000 miles equal 1.5 years driving. No waiting list is that long. If it is go to another county.

If your a safe driver you would have done and passed your test by now.

If you must know, I've been driving since I'd say April last year, I got insured to drive my car Feb 19th, 2004 and wouldn't have been driving it properly really until around April. I mainly used it to practice with in between lessons. I didn't apply for my test straight away and the centre I did apply with has a waiting list of about 46 weeks (at present, it may have been longer when I applied). So no, I have not had a test yet. I havent even got my 4/5 weeks notice yet :mad:

So I have driven 20K in about a year. I've driven in all conditions too, city, motorway, country, night, day, mist, rain, snow, sleet, sun, passengers, heavy traffic, light traffic, 5 minute drive, 5 hour drive, cork, kerry and galway and back in the year. I also have previous road experience on a bicycle. People may say it's not the same, it's not, but it's still road experience and being able to anticipate things etc.

Its not like you go into test center a crap driver and you caome out a good one because you have a cert of competency!!

Exactly my point earlier on in the thread, I am, in effect waiting to be told I'm a competent driver. I've already been told by IAM Ignition but not officially, so is it a case that I am not competent now, but if I pass my test tomorrow, I am?

Imposter

cormie wrote:

Edit: regarding the overtaking, I realise the dangers involved and even though I'm very cautious about getting into the same situation. Now I never did before, but after reading the "Flashing to overtake" thread, it's ironic because I noticed myself having to flash at many people in the fast lane when it was late and night and there were no cars in the left hand lane and they were doing about 70 in the overtaking lane. I didn't overtake them in the left hand lane, I just flashed, they went left and I overtook them then. Again, if you think I'm some speedy boy, I'm not, I go the limits and don't break them unless necessary, which is extremely seldom. I'm not one of these people who do 70 in a 60 zone and continue doing 70 in a 75 zone. I can only improve whatever my flaws may be.

On a side note, what are the waiting lists for tests in Germany?

I'm guessing you're talking in miles here? If so you do realise there are no 75 zones? Similarly learner drivers shouldn't be on the motorways which are the only 70 'zones'!

If germany is anything like Austria there is no real waiting times. If you've passed your theory test and your instructor thinks you're good enough you are scheduled for the next tests in your town (I lived in a small town and they had tests once a week, larger towns would be every day). If you fail the instructors usually will get you to do 10 more sessions (45 mins each, 20 compulsary before 1st test) and then you'll sit the next test if the instrustor thinks you'll pass.

bonzai bob

Would all the so called ''competent'' fully licensed drivers get off their high ****in horse! The majority of muppets on the road I come across are so called ''competent'' fully licensed drivers:rolleyes: