Alternative Government - preferred FG lead rainbow?

PH01

Following their party conference at the weekend, PD leader Mary Harney stated that she isn't tied to colalation with Fianna Fail but would be open to going into government with Fine Geal and Labour, but not with the Greens (see http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2005/0411/2839271821HM1PDS.html).
So if there was an election tomorrow who would be your prefered FG lead government? Rainbow with the Greens or with the PDs?

My choice would be a rainbow with the PDs.


(Pity ya can't do Polls anymore here in the Politics Forum - how ironic is that!!!???)

Nuttzz

FG and the Greens have very different views on neutrality, FG are very vocal in froming the "triple lock" system and co-operating with EU countries on defence, I dont see that sitting too well with the Greens or labour for that matter

invincibleirish

speaking now as a fully paid up member of the labour party i believe the party is doing completely the wrong thing in getting into bed with FG so early, it means in real terms that we are limiting our ambition by being FGs other "lesser" half if you will and means more militant left parties like sf and sp eating into our vote in working class areas and greens and fg taking our vote in middle class seats.
i cant see why pat rabbitte cannot fight the next election standing the labour party on an independant party platform and then open negotiations with potential coalition partners after the election.

to those who say this failed ruari quinn in 2002 its my own belief that the electorate,bought off by Mcreevys "generosity" and a booming economy just simply did not want a change of gov., this time however i feel there is definitely a mood for change.
also the notion of labour and the pds being in the same government is the day i burn my membership card and im certain i would not be the only one in either Labour or the pds.

aodh_rua

As an FG member, I think a FG\PD coalition would be a good move for both parties as we could get a clearly defined government. I do have my worries about the Greens and especially their economics.

Sleepy

I'd actually believe that a combination of Labour and the PD's would be my ideal government formed out of the current Irish parties. The PD's are tough on criminals whilst Labour are keen about reforming the causes of criminality. The PD's are good at dealing with the Economy and Business representatives, whilst Labour have the ear of the unions which should help with the negotiation of national wage agreements etc.

If you could combine the two in a way that would allow the PD's to handle the economy while letting Labour handle public services, I think you'd get a great government.

Chaos-Engine

Sleepy wrote:

I'd actually believe that a combination of Labour and the PD's would be my ideal government.

There is about as much a chance of this happening as there is for Mary Harney losing weight or Pat Rabbitte joining FF

dahamsta

invincibleirish wrote:

i cant see why pat rabbitte cannot fight the next election standing the labour party on an independant party platform and then open negotiations with potential coalition partners after the election.

How can you make an informed decision on whether to vote for a party if you don't even know who they're going to go into coalition with beforehand? What if you vote for them and they go into coalition with a party you find abhorrent?

(I'm a Labour member as well btw. I guess that means I'm quite likely to vote for them, but there's no guarantee. If they said they were going to g into coalition with SF or the PDs, for example, I'd need to hear bloody good justification.)

adam

bonkey

dahamsta wrote:

How can you make an informed decision on whether to vote for a party if you don't even know who they're going to go into coalition with beforehand?

I guess in the same way that you make an informed decision despite not knowing how your party will specifically act/vote on any given issue in any given situation.

I'm not sure I'd distinguish the freedom a party has post-election to choose who to ally itself with with the freedom a party has post-election to choose to align themselves on any given issue.

After a poll has been closed, the voter has no direct control over what the party will do, and can only act on any decision come the next election - so why distinguish formal alliances in the form of coalitions with informal alliances in the form of supporting/opposing any given bill.

Just as a party is expected to make its standpoing on key issues clear as an election platform, though, I do believe that a party should make it clear what its stance re: coalitions are, as this could be just as key an issue in many voters' eyes. A party who is not making its stance public could, in my opinion, be considered similarly to a party who does not make it clear what its stance on a given key issue (e.g. healthcare).

Then again...until the public make it clear that this is something they want to hear, it will not be an issue for spending PR budgets nor expending airtime on.

jc

dahamsta

bonkey wrote:

I guess in the same way that you make an informed decision despite not knowing how your party will specifically act/vote on any given issue in any given situation.

Fair point, particularly in this day and age (or was it always like this) when the first thing parties seem to do when they get elected is fold the manifesto into a paper airplane and toss it out the window. However at least if there is a stated position, and the party doesn't follow that stated position, you can make an informed decision next time around, based on that behaviour?

It'd be a pretty odd election if parties didn't state policies and intentions, after all. Might as well just write-in Mugabe and be done with it...

adam

daveirl

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whatisbrain

I have to say, I'm surprised that people are even discussing the possibility of a Labour/PD coalition.

First of all, the two parties are ideologically incompatible. They have completely different views on economics (judging by what I've heard from both sides; correct me if I'm wrong).

Secondly, with the Opposition as a whole being so anti-government, and with Pat Rabbite in particular taking advantage of Michael McDowell's planning permission problems (a completely private issue with no connection to his Government status) to publicly deride Mr. McDowell in the Dail, it's unlikely that either of the two men would be very open to partnership.

Also, with the PDs having such little support across the country, and with Labour being at best the second party in the country, they would have virtually no chance of gaining enough seats to form a government.

PH01

I would say Joe and Joan Public are more likely to vote for a FG/Lab/PD than a FG/Lab/Green coalition because the PDs come across as having better policies and experience on business and economic matters. This being the case Labour would have more in common with the PDs. But then again, Labour might prefer to have the Greens on board to push around on these issues.

But will FG and Labour get into government with the Greens? I don't know if they will. You would certainly see the likes of the PDs and Fianna Fail attacking the Greens at every opportunity specifically on their economic policies. They'll just do enough to turn-off any voter who might be thinking about voting for an alternative government. I think the Greens would be any alternative coalition government's Achilles heal.
I expect the Greens know this, but I wonder what they can do to counter act this?

I'm sure FG and Labour know this as well. And I will be very surprised to see them formally invite the Greens to join their alternative government pact. If they do, I don't see how they can win the next election.

de5p0i1er

aodh_rua wrote:

As an FG member, I think a FG\PD coalition would be a good move for both parties as we could get a clearly defined government. I do have my worries about the Greens and especially their economics.

As a FG member I think that this is just Mary Hearney trying to save herself because Bertie seem ready to jump into bed with SF.

monument

I'll vote exclusively for Fianna Fail (maybe not for the PDs) if it'll stop FG and Labour getting into power. Anyway, it would be a nice way for saying thank you for my SSIA

Pat Rabbits sole purpose in life looks as if it is opposition for opposition sake, as well as the fact he was in a party who had their own private army (he claims he never knew about it, but that sounds too much like the people who now claim their party is not directly linked to one). And (as I’ve said before) in recent interview Rabbit couldn’t really answer the question how Labour’s policies are different then the PDs.

Meh

whatisbrain wrote:

First of all, the two parties are ideologically incompatible. They have completely different views on economics (judging by what I've heard from both sides; correct me if I'm wrong).

I think it's a difference of style rather than substance. I don't think Ruairi Quinn (the last Labour finance minister) was any more radical than Brian Cowen. All the parties in the country (bar SF and the Greens) subscribe to pretty much the same brand of welfare-state watered-down capitalism.

Secondly, with the Opposition as a whole being so anti-government, and with Pat Rabbite in particular taking advantage of Michael McDowell's planning permission problems (a completely private issue with no connection to his Government status) to publicly deride Mr. McDowell in the Dail, it's unlikely that either of the two men would be very open to partnership.

Michael McDowell based his entire campaign on FF-bashing last election, but that didn't stop him from hopping into bed with Bertie as soon as the votes were counted.

daveirl

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BolBill

I'd take any anybody instead of FF. Ahern is a f**k up of major proportions. He is slowly but surely bringing this country back to the dark ages. Dublin Airport is merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

CerebralCortex

FF - Satan.
FG - Spawn of Satan.

PH01

BolBill wrote:

I'd take any anybody instead of FF. Ahern is a f**k up of major proportions. He is slowly but surely bringing this country back to the dark ages. Dublin Airport is merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

Ok, ok. Enough of all that. And, if ya want to do some FF and Bertie bashing please do it in another thread.

But, please do tell us what FG lead alternative government you'd prefer, and what would do best and why?