What now for Jericho?

gimmick

Is it just me, or are the fans becoming very much apathetic towards Y2J? And secondly, can you blame them?

IMO, Jericho has started to become very stale on Raw, and seems to be a serial jobber at this point. I cant remember a big win for him now in what seems like ages, in fact the last PPV I can remember him winning at is Badd Blood last June, when he beat Tomko. He has lost in 4 Wrestlemanias in a row as well. His highlight Reel is kind of boring and predictable.

Now, unusually for a guy in this position, he is still very credible, and despite many becoming bored with him, is still quite over. he is very adaptable, as he can go from jobbing to Snitsky, to main eventing a PPV seamlessly, and gives off the impression that he can win the big one. I suppose the fact he is such a good in ring performer helps in this respect.

One 'problem' he may have 'suffered' from (an I know I am repeating myself here) is that he has not ever had any 'off' time ie been laid up by an injury for any noticeable amount of time. If you look at most of the recent champions, and those who are quite over, as a hee or a face, have all been shelved for one reason or another, letting the fans anticipate their return ie HHH, Cena, Taker, Rock, Austin, HBK, Benoit, Guerrero, Angle. All came back with similar gimmicks (except Taker), and the fans lapped it up, and all have had a decent push on their return.

There is no doubting his talent in the ring and on the mic, but he is not being used correctly at the moment, or certainly not being used to him optimum capacity. But one must wonder, is he in a comfort zone, to job and flirt with main events every now and then, without ever making the impact we all know he is capable of? Or is there other plans afoot?

What would people like to see him do? A move to SD? A heel turn? A voluntary lay off in order to re-invigorate his character? Leave him as he is?

Personally, I would like if he was off TV for a few months and tweaked his gimmick somewhat. The reasoning could be down to a vicious beat down from Edge after Jericho gains some momentum and looks like a genuine threat to his no 1 contendership. Not only would this get Chris off TV, but would also gain Edge some extra heel heat, which he cant get enough of at the moment.

This way, it would gain sympathy for Jericho, and fans would know that once he is 'capable' of returning, he could go straight into a main event feud with Edge, possibly for the title.

I dunno.

Zombienosh

yeah I have to agree with you there, IMO I think something should happen him some kinda injury causing him to disappear for a while, and make a big return and a title chase, It would help him and I think he has the potential to be champ.

Stalfos

gimmick wrote:

One 'problem' he may have 'suffered' from (an I know I am repeating myself here) is that he has not ever had any 'off' time ie been laid up by an injury for any noticeable amount of time. If you look at most of the recent champions, and those who are quite over, as a hee or a face, have all been shelved for one reason or another, letting the fans anticipate their return ie HHH, Cena, Taker, Rock, Austin, HBK, Benoit, Guerrero, Angle. All came back with similar gimmicks (except Taker), and the fans lapped it up, and all have had a decent push on their return.

Agreed, It has Benefited so many others to have a big return and it could help him move up in his career

gimmick wrote:

What would people like to see him do? A move to SD? A heel turn? A voluntary lay off in order to re-invigorate his character? Leave him as he is?

Would rather someone else like Micheals move to SD and leave a spot open for someone like Jericho to fill.

Brow

SPOILER











Well with Carlito announcing his own highlight reel thing called Carlitos Cabana I think Jericho will remain on RAW for now anyway to keep his original version going.

Ph3n0m

I have to disagree - look what a big return did for Benoit - one lousy single championship run and now he is doing the same role as Jericho. Those two men are two of the absolute best the business has to offer and WWE as usual is wasting them.

Look at their feuds since they arrived in WWE and how long their "title" runs were. Not only that, unfortunately they were made look weak as champions due to the creative teams lack of foresight plus some quite obvious creative playing by HHH

Seems that yet again size does matter in WWE - unlike WCW and to a larger extent ECW - where talent was tad more important

gimmick

Benoit had a six month reign, and was totally credible throughout. In fact, it was a shock that he lost it to Orton. A six month reign for a first time champ is a huge run. In recent years, only JBL has had a longer 1st time run.

And I disagree that Benoit is back down the pecking order. Look at his role in the MITB match at Mania. Few would disagree that he was the MVP, even selling his shoulder/arm injury.

he also picked up a nice win over Edge on Raw this week

. It wouldnt surprise me if Benoit was in line for another main event push, as aside from HBK, he is probably Raws top face at present.

The fact that since Jericho has not been off TV for any significant amount of time since 1999 has damaged his character somewhat. Of course he is lucky not to have picked up any injury, but some off time is most certainly needed IMO.

Ph3n0m

I will agree with most of what you said about Benoit - but you cannot deny that Jericho, while being one of the healthiest wrestlers around has been generally **** on by HHH and the creative team.

He was the first unified champion and while he got 2 big wins to get the title - HHH pretty much shat on his reign. But also before he was made champion he had some incredibly one sided feuds with HHH - he was used to make HHH look better, while at the same time always keeping Jericho as the underdog and you know he has never actually beaten HHH on PPV - ever - now that to me is shocking.

Jonny Arson

I think its an absolute disgrace that Y2J has been thrown into oblivion since Wrestlemania X8. From becoming the first undisputed champion he is know basically a filler on RAW. For me Y2J is one of the best wrestlers in the WWE, always puts on great matches, hugely entertaining as a face or a heel. I think the main reason is that he's not a big guy and good old Vinnie Mac loves his big guys and thats never going to change.

IMO opinion Y2J is truly a ''larger than life, living legend!''

Skud

Benoit didnt get a decent title reign in quality anyway. If you remeber correctly Eugene was the main attraction at the time and him interacting with evoution. I think benoit was mianly in tag matches not main eventing Raw. He had some popularity but the flavour of the month Euegene overshadowed it. HHH overshadowed it. It was disgraceful tbh.

Jericho is wasted. I cannot say much more than that. If you remeber the match he had with goldberg, man he carried him. Goldberg broke the barricade with his spear after about 10 mins, the rest was jericho carrying goldberg "selling" the injury.

Benjamin was the mvp of the MITB match at wrestlemainia. Mainly because Benoit did what he always does and put on a damn fine show where as Benjamin shocked us (the sommersault over the top, running up the ladder, the tbone off the ladder.) Benoit wasn't given much time of day in the match. Kane was a let down. Christian again was wasted and Edge, didn't even deserve to win it let alone be in the match. Matt Hardy ppl! v1

gimmick

Skud wrote:

Benoit didnt get a decent title reign in quality anyway.

Name one first time WHC champion who has had a longer title reign in recent years? In fact, name the last first time champion to have a longer reign? Add to that, name the last 'face' champion to have a longer run that Benoit?

Still think it wasnt decent in anyway?

Skud wrote:

If you remeber correctly Eugene was the main attraction at the time and him interacting with evoution.................................................................... He had some popularity but the flavour of the month Euegene overshadowed it. HHH overshadowed it. It was disgraceful tbh.

That was a side show which was used to help the main event scene, not devalue it. How could you call Benoits title match against HBK on Raw substandard, and overshadowed?

How about Benoit Vs HHH hour long iron man match. If Trips was hellbent on making Benoit look weak, he wouldnt have lost, would he?

Skud wrote:

Benjamin was the mvp of the MITB match at wrestlemainia. Mainly because Benoit did what he always does and put on a damn fine show where as Benjamin shocked us (the sommersault over the top, running up the ladder, the tbone off the ladder.) Benoit wasn't given much time of day in the match. Kane was a let down. Christian again was wasted and Edge, didn't even deserve to win it let alone be in the match. Matt Hardy ppl! v1

Having watched the match again its hard to disagree about Benjamin. However to say that Kane was poor, and Christian was wasted is wrong IMO. Both put on very solid performances. Also, I think Benoit was amazing in the match, and would say its a split hair between himself and Benjamin as to who was the MVP.

Why didnt Edge deserve to be in the match? Further, why didnt he deserve to win it? Now I was very dissapointted he did win, but lets be total marks now for a second - have you ever played 9 ball pool? Have you ever let the other guy pot all the other balls, and then pot the 9 ball yourself? You may not have deserved to win, the other guy did all the hard work, but couldnt finish the job. Thats essentially what Edge did. (Oh, and it was scripted as well so as not to ruin their plans for future storylines )

Skud

HHH wanted to put benoit over at the time, I agree. Still when trips or michaels wasnt involved it was them main eventing. When they write the stories how can the champ be in the limelight? Even now with batista it's all about HHH coming out and applauding him, creating heat for a rematch. Michaels/HHH had the big massive fight boil over didnt they? Eugene again took away, I remeber distinctly Benoit in a tag match while Eugene and HHH pissed about the main event slot. Benoit did deserve the title reign as long as he got it. You can't say any man deserved it more. JBL had longer reign HHH was nearly a year long too (with the exception of a month in which he gave it to michaels and took it back.)

Kane was poor because he wasn't dominant. I dunno was this to tie in with the story or what but he did not show what he is capable of. Rarely have we seen a glimpse of Kane at his best lately.

Edge isnt a contender for the title imo. Jericho, Christian, Benoit, Kane are miles ahead when given any decent push. Since Edge has come back name one good performance he has been had? Thats why he is heel. HHH handed him the no1 contendership. The reason why matt hardy wasnt in it was Edge. It would have been a good match either way but they could have done something storyline wise with the heat backstage between these two. Perhaps they would have killed each other but its good tv for vinc$$$e.

I agree on the storylines bit. But this is wrestlemania. The end of most storylines and the beginnning of others. They could have done alot with it. But they didnt. Your opinion about Benoit is noted and I respect that. I chose benjamin as mvp and thats mine.

gimmick

Skud wrote:

JBL had longer reign HHH was nearly a year long too (with the exception of a month in which he gave it to michaels and took it back.)

JBL has never been World Heavyweight champion. He was WWE champion

And when HHH had that title run, he was a heel, and it wasnt his first reign either (though as WHC, as distinct from WWE champ).

Cat O'Nine Tail

The way the WWE has treated their first ever Undisputed Champion is disgraceful. Jericho, IMO, is one of their best all round wrestlers. Not only is he a good technical wrestler, but he can cut some damn good promos. Remember the promos and in ring work he did with Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley?

He's wasted on RAW(or should it be called "The Triple H Show"?). Send him over to SD, and get him feuding with Kurt Angle. Those two had some good matches. Or have him feud with the waste of space that is Carlito.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'll weighin with this one now that my little Survivor challenge is over and I can type proprly (I won by the way ). I agree Jericho has been treated terribly. I think one of his biggest problems is his lack of a decent finisher. I would love to see him go to Smackdown if only to see him at the Point!

Ph3n0m

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I'll weighin with this one now that my little Survivor challenge is over and I can type proprly (I won by the way ). I agree Jericho has been treated terribly. I think one of his biggest problems is his lack of a decent finisher. I would love to see him go to Smackdown if only to see him at the Point!

egads man, he has several moves that are all equally effective as a finisher

walls of jericho
lionsault
running enziguri


The main problem is someone (*cough* Nash *cough*) got in someone's ear (*cough* HHH *cough*)

Mr.Nice Guy

Ph3n0m wrote:

egads man, he has several moves that are all equally effective as a finisher

walls of jericho
lionsault
running enziguri


The main problem is someone (*cough* Nash *cough*) got in someone's ear (*cough* HHH *cough*)

The Walls of Jericho doesn't seem to have the same effectiveness as the Crippler Crossface though. I think he needs a finisher that is sudden like Orton's RKO.I think the enziguri was an attempt at something like that but it's not very impressive in my view. The lionsault was ruined by having almost everybody kick out of it. A similar thing happened to the Angle Slam a couple of years ago when loads of people used to kick out of it.

Ph3n0m

the walls of jericho used to be very effective as it more of a modified standing boston crab, where Jericho leant more on the head, neck and spine of his opponent. If you get a chance, look at his match against Rhyno - that was the last time the walls of jericho actually looked like it hurt someone

Mr.Nice Guy

Yeah I know what you mean. It looked alot better when he stood up instead of sitting back like he does now.

gimmick

The Walls Of Jericho is now essentially a Boston Crab, and looks crap. As phenom said above, it looked so much better then he has standing and had his opponent sort of twisted below him.

Cat O'Nine Tail wrote:

Or have him feud with the waste of space that is Carlito

Carlito is going to be a major star. How is he a waste of space? please explain that one? Please! He was brought into the wwe, unfortunatley got a serious injury soon, but it was deemed he was important enough to keep on tv. He has been one of the main reasons that SD has been watchable in recent months. If it werent for him and his storylines, I would gaurantee the ratings would have been even lower. Add to that, he is a bloody good wrestler, so I cannot see where he is a waste of space.

Ph3n0m wrote:

The main problem is someone (*cough* Nash *cough*) got in someone's ear (*cough* HHH *cough*)

Whats the story there???

Ph3n0m

gimmick wrote:

Whats the story there???

Ok in essence, back in the WCW days, when Jericho left WCW for WWE, allegedly Nash got word to HHH that Jericho needed some attitude adjustment, or basically be sat on - apparantly for something he said about Nash and his wrestling/booking skills

I mean look at his first PPV in the WWE - he lost to Xpac for christs sake

Stalfos

RAW Spoiler:

Jericho last is now once again going for the IC title , i bet he probably wasnt even to happy when the writers told him that. He also said that he that made the IC title what it is today and i agreed with him and although Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin would be a great match it would also be a huge step back for Jericho imo.

Mr.Nice Guy

Are we going to see a possible heel turn from Benjamin? What do you think?

Stalfos

Possibly, he was acting a bit rude last night, telling everyone how great he was.

gimmick

From reading the results, it seemed to me thta it was Jericho acting the heel.

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought Shelton acted more of a heel. The crowd didn't like it when he told Jericho he would use his fists and "give him more hits than Fozzy". It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I suspect they'll fight each other at Backlash.

gimmick

A heel turn for Benjamin at this juncture would be poor booking. He is only beginning to show what he is all about in the ring, showing his wrestling/grappling/high flying skills.

A heel turn now woud invariably mean he starts resorting to underhand tactics etc, therefore devaluing his actaul skills. Now i realsie that Angle dont have to resort to cheating much anymore, but, no disrespect, he aint no Kurt Angle. Maybe later on, but for now, he should be booked as what he is - a good wrestler and risk taker.

Even if he there is a feud a-brewing between himself and Jericho, there is nothing to say it would be a Face Vs Face feud, and alot of the time, these can be great. Certainly, one way or the other, itll make for soem decent matches.

gimmick

[Source: PWTorch]

-- Chris Jericho, who has become even more outspoken than ever about WWE, may not renew his contract. His deal with the company ends late this year, and he has been very open about his frustrations. A source close to Jericho backstage, says that he is stale and knows it, but is frustrated that he isn't given more attention from the creative staff.

The creative team, of about 8 or 9 members, feels that it's not worth heavily investing any time in him until he renews his contract. This means that Jericho isn't a top candidate to be moved to Smackdown in the upcoming draft, and given a renewed push.

---

Bit of a catch 22 isnt it?

Ph3n0m

he was on a radio show and he made two "outspoken" points

1) The Edge/Lits/hardy situation was "extremely ****ed up"

2) HHH is now the equivalant of Hogan in the 80s

Which I think is brilliant - Jericho has never minced his words, and although he loves the industry he has been shat on so many times by HHH and HHH alone (since his tenure in WWE began)

I would love to see Y2J stay, or indeed move to Smackdown, but realisticly, I hope he leaves for the benefit of his outstanding career and moves to either TNA or Japan - where he will get the respect and appreciation that he really deserves

I just cant wait to hear what HHH has to say, probably another "he never put asses in the arena" - and if that happens, my rant will be long winded, atrociously spelt and full of comparissons of HHH to feces

TOPDAWG

Ph3n0m wrote:

and if that happens, my rant will be long winded, atrociously spelt and full of comparissons of HHH to feces

ha ha!!