Variax .... your opinions

Johnny Storm

The Line 6 Variax is a guitar with built-in digital models of 30 classic guitar sounds. You turn a knob to sound like a Les Paul, Strat, Rickenbacker etc. Starts at about €500.

Is this
a) the greatest break through in guitar technology since Leo F got the slide rule out of his arse back in 1952
b) sterile gimmick for people who can't play the guitar
c) I've never tried one or even heard of one but I have an opinion on it anyway

Please discuss......

bombidol

ive seen the video for the Bass model and it looks amazing. id love to get my hands on one to try out. but 500 Is a good price for something like that

Doctor J

I dunno, cheap guitar made in Korea with some sophistimacated electronic jiggery to sound like classic guitars. Meh, tbh what it's missing is the physical character of the guitars in question. For example, a strat plays differently to a Les Paul and as a result, the player plays the guitar in a different way. It'd be handy to dick about on but if I was going to record or do anything serious I'd try for the real thing.

Ancient1

The last and the greatest breakthrough in the history of the guitar was the development of the Stratocaster.

What a controversial statement. No i dont want to back up my opinion.

*waits for flaming*

well i think the idea is great but the body and neck aren't the most exciting but i found a site before which creates different bodies for the electronics, a Tele-ax and Strat-ax etc. Thought they were cool.

Zapp Brannigan

id be interested in a varix bass but they dont make em 5 strings so screw em. and Line6 have a **** rep for bass products cos of their lack of support.

feylya

www.warmoth.com make replacement bodies and necks for the Variax. I like the idea behind them but as the Doc said, it won't be the same as playing a real Strat or a real Les Paul

eoin5

I think i mentioned this before but it says that for the bass model you can make it sound like it has flatwound strings, but it also says that the sound of the strings themselves affects the sound as much as they would in a normal bass, so if you select flatwound mode with flatwound strings do you unlock super flatwound mode? This is driving me crazy

ediz

I've always thought it was an odd decision for them to release guitars themselves given their lack of experience at it, seems like it'd make more sense to sign up to some kind of deal with a more respected fender/fender clone type manufacturer to release a joint venture as the majority of opnions seem to be "interesting electronics but cheap feeling guitar". They could also release a few more models to satisfy people with a preferance for strat/tele/lp type bodies.

ps out of curiosity given that they use a piezo bridge system could the electronics be loaded into a guitar alongside standard passive pickups and be switchable?

Doctor J

They couldn't really tie up with a big manufacturer, especially one they're imitating sonically, could you imagine Fender selling a guitar that "can sound like" a strat? Also, if it were on a Fender and there was a Les Paul setting on it, I don't think the Gibson lawyers would have time for a doughnut with their morning coffee

As regards the pickup thing, you could put standard magnetic pickups in it be wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of the instrument?

Johnny Storm

feylya wrote:

... I like the idea behind them but as the Doc said, it won't be the same as playing a real Strat or a real Les Paul

I hear what your saying. I have not actually played a Variax but also I have frankly not ever played a real Les paul.

To be Devils advocate for a minute. If the Variax can give lets say 90% of the sonic satisfaction of playing a real Les Paul AND can ALSO give 90% of the satisfaction of playing 29 other classic axes then its got to be the guitar bargain of the century... ?

This post crossed with Dr J's last one but here goes anyway: Do you think that Gibson and Fender etc will be including the option of digital modelling in their guitars within 5 years ?

Johnny Storm

Doctor J wrote:

They couldn't really tie up with a big manufacturer, especially one they're imitating sonically, could you imagine Fender selling a guitar that "can sound like" a strat? Also, if it were on a Fender and there was a Les Paul setting on it, I don't think the Gibson lawyers would have time for a doughnut with their morning coffee

As regards the pickup thing, you could put standard magnetic pickups in it be wouldn't that entirely defeat the purpose of the instrument?

I hear ya, but Fender could sell a strat that could optionally sound like a humbucker guitar / heavy metal guitar / 12 string when required.

I think mixing standard pickups with this kind of digital jiggery-pokery is almost inevitable. IE that way you can have a well made, highly playable guitar (with a respected brand-name if that's important) which has its own natual tones, PLUS you have on tap a wide range of other tones for when youre in the humour.

Doctor J

Gibson already do, or am I confusing it with a midi Les Paul?

I think it is the way of the future, but there will always be stubborn bastids like me who, if I want to hear a Strat, will play a Strat. The thing guitars have above a keyboard synth, for example, is character. Your guitar responds to you and a Les Paul responds differently than a Strat and that affects how you play the thing. Each guitar has it's own quirks and little things which endear it to the player, the players personality can be reflected in their guitar. The Line 6 doesn't really have a personality of it's own. I have a Ric bass, and maybe a Line 6 can make a sound like the Ric, but the whole body won't vibrate against me when I play it hard like the Ric does, I won't take a few seconds to take in the beauty of the Ric design when I take a Line 6 outta the bag. The Ric is a Ric and that's all it can be. It is meant to be what it is and **** it that's how I like it man. I did a gig in the Hub a few weeks ago and met a guy I knew in college, he said that, from where he was sitting, he couldn't hear the band, but he could feel the bass. That is what a Rickenbacker is and you can't synthesise it I mean, there are still a long, long line of people who will lug a Hammond Organ and Leslie speaker around (and trust me, you need about three people and a van) rather than play a synthesised synth Hammond sound. The Hammond Organ has personality and character. A Casio does not. In the same sense, there are people who will seek out vintage guitars or re-issues of vintage designs (and I am one, 62 Jazz re-issue ) despite (or maybe in spite of) all the developments and improvements in guitar design since Leo got it right.

ediz

I definitely think if it's possible a switchable standard passive set of pickups would help them sell the thing as a serious guitar as opposed to a an occasional studio gimmick/novelty, i'd imagine the sceptical would be more accepting if they could use it as a main guitar and at will fall back on a pair of duncan 59/jb's etc.

In terms of Fender/Gibson versions i'd have thought at least for a start they could have approached one of the many reasonably respected companies who make clones of the various flagship models, Agile/esp/tokai etc, it's not obviously going to placate someone who HAS to have a proper Gibson/Fender but then the purpose would be to package the electrics in something that could be considered a respectable enough guitar to be of regular use.

feylya

It's just like the digital modelling amps vs tube amps debate again. A load of electronics trying to mimic a warm tube will never sound exactly like a warm tube cranked to hell and back.

It's the feel of the guitar I think that makes you play differently. You put on a Les Paul, you can feel the weight hanging off you, you know exactly what guitar you have on. You put on a Strat, you get that single coil twang and the feel of the bridge. The Variax can't compete with that. The Variax might be good in a small home studio situation but I wouldn't bother with one live.

dabhoys

the type of guitar has a big influence on how you play alrite. I've to work my balls of to play the Les paul and the fender plays different as does the PRS and so forth. No two guitars are the same they will always have there own personality. I've never been a fan of the modeling stuff. Having said that they can be handy for certain people and some people love it. All power too them but I would never trade any of the 11 glowy valves in my amp for any digital amp

But having said the the Line 6 Pod has its moments of use alrite....

Karl Hungus

In fairness, the whole guitar/amp modelling is great, but it should be kept to the bedroom, like the Microcube. Now I for one really praise the little microcube, it's an excellent peice of kit, but I'd never play live with one, just at the same time I'd never be seen playing a Variax live either. I would like to play around with one, but tbh, nothing beats the real thing.

feylya

I still want to try and play a gig with a microcube, mic it and use the monitors. Of course, I could only have one tone but that doesn't matter

Johnny Storm

Karl Hungus wrote:

In fairness, the whole guitar/amp modelling is great, but it should be kept to the bedroom, like the Microcube. Now I for one really praise the little microcube, it's an excellent peice of kit, but I'd never play live with one, just at the same time I'd never be seen playing a Variax live either. I would like to play around with one, but tbh, nothing beats the real thing.

Well, maybe that's the real market for the Variax type guitar - IE hobbyists/duffers/whatever-you-want-to-call-us. In other words people who are interested in guitars as a hobby rather than a gig and who could never justify the cost of a real LP, Strat or other classic ? (or certainly could never justify a collection of them.)

dabhoys

I did a gig once with 15 watt fender bass amp and some pedals and it wasn't miced up. I was playing on stage on my own but I still did it

Variax guitar are great for weding bands. and I don't mean that in a bad way. Those guys love all in one tricks....

feylya

I still want to try a Variax, plugged into a Pod XT Live.

Ah, well if you're on your own, 15W would be plenty. Dunno about a 2W amp competing with a drummer though

Johnny Storm

Doctor J wrote:

Gibson already do, or am I confusing it with a midi Les Paul?

I think it is the way of the future, but there will always be stubborn bastids like me who, if I want to hear a Strat, will play a Strat. The thing guitars have above a keyboard synth, for example, is character. Your guitar responds to you and a Les Paul responds differently than a Strat and that affects how you play the thing. Each guitar has it's own quirks and little things which endear it to the player, the players personality can be reflected in their guitar. The Line 6 doesn't really have a personality of it's own. I have a Ric bass, and maybe a Line 6 can make a sound like the Ric, but the whole body won't vibrate against me when I play it hard like the Ric does, I won't take a few seconds to take in the beauty of the Ric design when I take a Line 6 outta the bag. The Ric is a Ric and that's all it can be. It is meant to be what it is and **** it that's how I like it man. I did a gig in the Hub a few weeks ago and met a guy I knew in college, he said that, from where he was sitting, he couldn't hear the band, but he could feel the bass. That is what a Rickenbacker is and you can't synthesise it I mean, there are still a long, long line of people who will lug a Hammond Organ and Leslie speaker around (and trust me, you need about three people and a van) rather than play a synthesised synth Hammond sound. The Hammond Organ has personality and character. A Casio does not. In the same sense, there are people who will seek out vintage guitars or re-issues of vintage designs (and I am one, 62 Jazz re-issue ) despite (or maybe in spite of) all the developments and improvements in guitar design since Leo got it right.

Well said, Doc.
Sorry, I am ignorant of the Gibson midi.

feylya

http://www.gibson.com/products/magic/digitalguitar.html

Johnny Storm

feylya wrote:

I still want to try a Variax, plugged into a Pod XT Live.

....

Well, if you get over to London they were demo'ing them big time last week in both the shops you recommended. (Soho soundhouse and Virgin Mega) They sounded really good TBH. Unfortunately, due to time pressure I did not get to try one myself.

Johnny Storm

feylya wrote:

http://www.gibson.com/products/magic/digitalguitar.html

Thanks for the link, Feylya.
IMHO Gibson need a few lessons in web design. Line 6 get right to the point and show you what their product does. I went to every part of the Gibson link and no actual demo just a bunch of baldy twerps with glasses talking about how great it is. If I wanted to see a baldy twerp with glasses I'd look in the mirror.....

dabhoys

Did you see that new amp that you put your POD into there made by atomic amps.

http://www.atomicamps.com/

They look pretty cool and they got a good review in Guitarist this month.

It's a cool concept...

feylya

Aye, I posted about those a good while back. They're damned expensive though! You could make one for cheaper. I've seen someone make an amp for their V-Amp.

dabhoys

Its a cool concept. I'd love to give it a try out...

Eoin Madsen

Computer graphics are still a long way from photorealism, but ears are easier to fool than eyes. I don't think digital modelling is even 90% accurate yet, but I would be under no illusions that it will succeed in the end.

I haven't heard a Variax yet, but I've encountered quite a few Line6 amps. They may not have reached their targets, but the quality/cost ratio is still the best in the market. I doubt the Variax Les Paul sounds like a real Les Paul, but I bet it sounds a lot better than an Epiphone.