World Cup qual. Group 4 Overview

Chucky the tree

pld W D L F A Pts
France 6 2 3 0 5 1 10
Israel 6 2 3 0 8 6 10
Switzerland 5 1 3 0 10 3 9
Ireland Republic 5 2 3 0 7 2 9
Cyprus 6 0 1 4 4 12 1
Faroe Islands 4 0 1 3 2 12 1

Fixtures left :

12-Oct-2005 Ireland Republic - Switzerland -

12-Oct-2005 France - Cyprus -

08-Oct-2005 Switzerland - France -

08-Oct-2005 Israel - Faroe Islands -

08-Oct-2005 Cyprus - Ireland Republic -

07-Sep-2005 Ireland Republic - France -

07-Sep-2005 Faroe Islands - Israel -

07-Sep-2005 Cyprus - Switzerland -

03-Sep-2005 Switzerland - Israel -

03-Sep-2005 France - Faroe Islands -

17-Aug-2005 Faroe Islands - Cyprus -

08-Jun-2005 Faroe Islands - Ireland Republic -

04-Jun-2005 Ireland Republic - Israel -

04-Jun-2005 Faroe Islands - Switzerland

Chucky the tree

i think we have to be favourites to win it now. I havent seen anything that owuld make me think we would lose to israel, switzerland or even france at home. I think we will definitly beat 2 out of the 3 of those. And if kerr plays to our strengths we will beat france(big if though)


I cant help but feel that if we played each game the way we can, we would be walking away with this group already. We gave our oppenents fair to much respect in the matches.

thejollyrodger

I agree, there is nothing in this group that should cause us major problems. We have been given a real gift this evening. We have a fantastic record at home, beating all the top teams in the past. Im really excited now, we can dicate the entire game to the rest of them !! :D Im delighted

Guy:Incognito

France have been utter ****e and it just continues. Winning the WC and EC seems to have been a kiss of death for them. Wonder will they still be amongst the favourites if they qualify this time.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

I agree, there is nothing in this group that should cause us major problems. We have been given a real gift this evening. We have a fantastic record at home, beating all the top teams in the past. Im really excited now, we can dicate the entire game to the rest of them !! :D Im delighted

Also slightly insane, the group shows 4 teams with one point between them and all 4 teams unbeaten. Now sherlock my good man, Would that suggest this is a very diffcult group with 4 very difficult to beat teams?

By your reckoning we will do what none of the other 3 teams has done home or away and beat one of those 3, Interesting logic you have there.

kdjac

ButcherOfNog

we'll come 2nd at best, we should be well in the driving seat, but we've thrown away too many opportunities already in this group. well, thats my fear anyway, it looks like an accident waiting to happen now.

Big Ears

ButcherOfNog wrote:

we'll come 2nd at best, we should be well in the driving seat, but we've thrown away too many opportunities already in this group. well, thats my fear anyway, it looks like an accident waiting to happen now.

We're stronger at home and we've drawn with the other 3 contenders away and have them all at home .

Thats what the difference will be for me , Ireland to narrowly edge out the others for first and Switzerland to pick up second after a win at home to France .

[Jackass]

Stekelly wrote:

France have been utter ****e and it just continues. Winning the WC and EC seems to have been a kiss of death for them. Wonder will they still be amongst the favourites if they qualify this time.

It has been the kiss of death alright, but to behonest...if you offerd me an Irish WC and EC double in Germany and Switzerland/Austria, with a few years of terrible football to follow...i'd grab it with both hands.

I think we have deffenatly thrown away big oppertunitys in all 3 of our drawn games, especcially Israel. Which i think was the logic behind him saying we could/should beat 2 out of the 3 at home...and following France and Switzerlands form today, aswell as the fact all 3 games will be in fortress Landsdowne, i dont see why we cant/wont beat all 3. Remember (assuming everyone beats cyprus and Faroes home and away) If we beat switzerland and Israel at home, (which is very likely imo) we only have to draw with France at home to win the Group.

The Rooster

I certainly wouldnt take it for granted that we're going to win our home games. We really should have more points in the bag so that we could afford to make a mistake. My opinion is that negative tactics cost us taking all three points in Israel and in Paris.

And while our home record in competitve games under McCarthy was very good, lets not forget that we dont really have a record under Kerr as yet. We've only played one decent team - Russia - and that was a poor performance and only a draw.

If I was predicting this as a neutral I'd say we'd get 1 win and 2 draws. But I'd also fear that France's two best performances will come in Ireland and Switzerland.

LFCFan

I'm very confident that we'll win the group. Switzerland are nowhere near as good as they were for the Euro qualifiers and we'll easily beat them in Landsdowne. We'll beat Israel, I've no doubt about that and the only draw I can see may be against France although if they play like they have been lately, we'll beat them. We're a very good side at home. To be honest, if we were offered 3 draws away to France, Israel and Switzerland before the tournament, we'd have taken them. Germany here we come

[Jackass]

The Rooster wrote:

If I was predicting this as a neutral I'd say we'd get 1 win and 2 draws. But I'd also fear that France's two best performances will come in Ireland and Switzerland.

I would see that as a worst case scenario, and assuming the 1 win you're talking about is Israel, then we would still finish second in the group, with swiss winning on goal difference. It shouldn't come to that, but i would still be confident in a playoff...we would surely be in the top 2 maybe 3 sides in play off...hopefully draw would be kind.

LFCfan wrote:

I'm very confident that we'll win the group. Switzerland are nowhere near as good as they were for the Euro qualifiers and we'll easily beat them in Landsdowne. We'll beat Israel, I've no doubt about that and the only draw I can see may be against France although if they play like they have been lately, we'll beat them. We're a very good side at home. To be honest, if we were offered 3 draws away to France, Israel and Switzerland before the tournament, we'd have taken them. Germany here we come

Agreed, i cant see us not beating the swiss and Israel, and Kerr is a draw specialist at this stage, so we'll get what we need against France
Switerland in second with a home win over France. (France not even qualify?? :eek: How the mighty have fallen!!)

[edit] For those interested here is Irelands Group, with full list of fixtures and results. Read the pre-tournament comment written on that page below the table There's no such thing as an easy group i'm afraid [/edit]

super_furry

Honestly I'm not certain we'll go through. I'm still far from convinced by Kerr and the terrible display and result against Israel has done little to change that. He just seems too indecisive to me and he didn't have the bottle to really go for the win in Tel Aviv. I hope I'm wrong have a sneaking suspicion that France will win it, with Switzerland second.

eirebhoy

If the players were at their best we probably would have won the game 3-0 and Kerr would have been a genious. Most of the players were woeful so the blame goes on Kerr and his so called tactics. It wasn't Kerr's tactics to sit back. It wasn't Mourinho's tactics to stay in their own box on Barcelona. It wasn't Eriksson's tactics to let France come at them in the Euro's. Its all psychology and a manager can't do anything about that. You could tell the players to push up when the keeper is going for a kickout but because the number one priority is not to concede the ball they are just going to sit back as soon as the opposition has the ball.

Kerr made his faults and deserves critisism for whatever they were but will everyone (including the media) stop blaming managers when players sit back.

Roy: “In saying that, we should still have killed the game off. We could have done more in the second half in terms of possession and testing their goalkeeper."

Given: “Perhaps you could say we were a bit conservative, but then hindsight is a great thing. You think ‘do we push forward for another goal or sit tight and defend what we have?’

“Looking at it we should have tried to get another goal, and overall we are disappointed we have dropped two big points in the group.”

Kerr: “We didn’t create a whole lot, and could have been more incisive going forward"

Kav: "it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep"

sleepwalker

anyone else starting to get the feeling that just maybe france arent even going to qualify for the world cup ?

no point in being afraid of france when they come to dublin if israel can get two draws against them we certainly can. i was impressed with switzerland in paris though that game is going to be alot tougher than people seem to be saying on this thread. long way to go yet anyway pity about the fecking 3 months gaps between games all the time :mad:

Hairy Homer

The Group of Death....ly Boredom.

I blame the Celtic Tiger.

A few years ago we saw ourselves as hopelessly disadvantaged underdogs, never likely to achieve anything but always willing to have a go and fail narrowly and heroically.

Now, and this goes for our rugby team as well, we see ourselves as genuine contenders who feel as if they should go out and dominate other teams, stifling their play in an iron grip of total control and carrying out our tasks with grim efficiency and utter professionalism so that we can finally reap the rewards that are our due.

A number of problems with this:

1) this is the same sort of arrogant posturing nonsense espoused by the likes of England (especially in rugby) and Germany in football which is why everybody hates them and with good reason

2) we are better technically than we were but we're not good enough to dominate matches like that. The result is we are now more likely to underachieve than ever

3) It's as uplifting as a funeral and just about as tedious.

4) Why do we watch sport? To be excited. To participate, if only vicariously, in the spectacle, the excitement, the appreciation of skill and courage. We're not getting it from O'Sullivan and Kerr.


Dare I say it. At least under McCarthy and Charlon the juices used to flow occasionally. (Sunderland back in the premiership next season almost for definite: what do you think of that Roy?)

Oh well. It's March. At least we can watch the grass grow.

Praetorian

Don't underestimate France. Like their Rugby team, the french on their day could come and slap us before we know what has hit us. I'm hoping we can beat 2 of the 3 big teams at home, we would then qualify if we despatched the weak Cyprus and Faroes.

One win and 2 draws may be enough against the top teams, if we can despatch Cyprus and the Faroe Islands, depending on other results.

I'm scared because I remember Russia and Switzerland at home in the last campaign

Also, of the 5 games, when have we actually played at a world class standard? Only away against the french iirc.

thejollyrodger

come the hour come the team as they say. We always just do enough. We never make anything easy for ourselves, always scraping through the hard way. We will beat all the teams that come to landsdowne road:) I cant wait unti october to see Ireland top the group for the first time ever..

[Jackass]

Hairy Homer wrote:

The Group of Death....ly Boredom.

I blame the Celtic Tiger.

A few years ago we saw ourselves as hopelessly disadvantaged underdogs, never likely to achieve anything but always willing to have a go and fail narrowly and heroically.

Now, and this goes for our rugby team as well, we see ourselves as genuine contenders who feel as if they should go out and dominate other teams, stifling their play in an iron grip of total control and carrying out our tasks with grim efficiency and utter professionalism so that we can finally reap the rewards that are our due.

A number of problems with this:

1) this is the same sort of arrogant posturing nonsense espoused by the likes of England (especially in rugby) and Germany in football which is why everybody hates them and with good reason

2) we are better technically than we were but we're not good enough to dominate matches like that. The result is we are now more likely to underachieve than ever

3) It's as uplifting as a funeral and just about as tedious.

4) Why do we watch sport? To be excited. To participate, if only vicariously, in the spectacle, the excitement, the appreciation of skill and courage. We're not getting it from O'Sullivan and Kerr.


Dare I say it. At least under McCarthy and Charlon the juices used to flow occasionally. (Sunderland back in the premiership next season almost for definite: what do you think of that Roy?)

Oh well. It's March. At least we can watch the grass grow.

I fail to see the problem. Or did you prefer the "Ah sure we're not gonna win it, but we'll have a laugh" brigade. The jokers of the tournament, who no body really respected, they just wouldn't say it. Let them have there fun, they'll be in the pub soon, while we actually train and have tactics (looking at you Mr.Charlton.)

Not me, i prefer the confident Irish, who actually have the balls to play to win. And never hide behind our humbleness and fun loving, good nature... who cant take anything serious.

Please don't confuse Arrogance with Confidence. We're still gracious in defeat aswell as victory. And we don't blame Beckham for getting sent off, we just accept the other team was better on the day.

Hairy Homer

DubGuy22 wrote:

Not me, i prefer the confident Irish, who actually have the balls to play to win.

Well so would I, but in the games against Israel, France and Switzerland where was the compelling evidence of an Irish team exhibiting 'the balls to win'?

Don't get me wrong: I WANT Kerr to do well, I WANT Ireland to qualify and I WANT to see our rugby team live up to its potential, which it woefully failed to do this season. My big fear on that score is that Geordan Murphy might show for Leicester on Saturday the potential he only fleetingly showed while playing for Ireland this season.

But back to soccer: the abiding memory for me of the Israel match will be George Hamilton's comment before our umpteenth free kick in an attacking area:'I wonder if they'll play it into the box this time'

Match summed up in one go.

When I want to cheer myself up from a black mood, I stick on the tape of Ireland v Germany in 2002. The injury time segment: Robbie Keane's goal. That match ended in a 1-1 draw. It was fairly tedious overall. And the team that showed the greater determination, spirit and let's face it skill, were vindicated against the team that played with arrogance, presumption and within their ability.

Pretty reminiscent of the Tel Aviv match. The difference was that we were the good guys in Japan, whereas we were the boring baddies in Tel Aviv.

And the result was the same. Which would you rather be?

dcarroll

LFCFan wrote:

I'm very confident that we'll win the group. Switzerland are nowhere near as good as they were for the Euro qualifiers and we'll easily beat them in Landsdowne. We'll beat Israel, I've no doubt about that and the only draw I can see may be against France although if they play like they have been lately, we'll beat them. We're a very good side at home. To be honest, if we were offered 3 draws away to France, Israel and Switzerland before the tournament, we'd have taken them. Germany here we come

In Lansdowne? why not croker? With 80000 of us roaring roy on kickin paddy vieira off the field one last time

smemon

Hairy Homer wrote:

The Group of Death....ly Boredom.

I blame the Celtic Tiger.

A few years ago we saw ourselves as hopelessly disadvantaged underdogs, never likely to achieve anything but always willing to have a go and fail narrowly and heroically.

Now, and this goes for our rugby team as well, we see ourselves as genuine contenders who feel as if they should go out and dominate other teams, stifling their play in an iron grip of total control and carrying out our tasks with grim efficiency and utter professionalism so that we can finally reap the rewards that are our due.

i disagree, in fact i think most irish fans are still stuck in the pre-tiger era. to expect to win isnt arrogant, its realism. ireland are ranked 12th in the WORLD ahead of the the likes of the european champions and germany. i didnt put them there, we the fans didnt, the irish team has got there on merit and with that 12th place comes expectation and pressure to stay there.

i believe ireland can beat anyone in the world and win any group in the world, win the euro's and world cup. why? because ive seen them play, i KNOW like many others on their day ireland can beat anyone. however most irish fans are happy to finish 2nd and scrape through a nervewrecking play-off. they dont care how far the side goes, they just want to see ireland up against the very best, nick a couple of heroic wins and narrowly be beaten by a brazil.

thats the attitude pre-celtic tiger people had. atm, presently, not in the past ,NOWADAYS ireland are one of the BEST sides in the world with some of the best players - given, duff, keane.... there's nothing wrong believing you can beat anyone, it's when you believe you cant beat anyone that you should be worried.

Big Ears

smemon wrote:

i disagree, in fact i think most irish fans are still stuck in the pre-tiger era. to expect to win isnt arrogant, its realism. ireland are ranked 12th in the WORLD ahead of the the likes of the european champions and germany. i didnt put them there, we the fans didnt, the irish team has got there on merit and with that 12th place comes expectation and pressure to stay there.

i believe ireland can beat anyone in the world and win any group in the world, win the euro's and world cup. why? because ive seen them play, i KNOW like many others on their day ireland can beat anyone. however most irish fans are happy to finish 2nd and scrape through a nervewrecking play-off. they dont care how far the side goes, they just want to see ireland up against the very best, nick a couple of heroic wins and narrowly be beaten by a brazil.

thats the attitude pre-celtic tiger people had. atm, presently, not in the past ,NOWADAYS ireland are one of the BEST sides in the world with some of the best players - given, duff, keane.... there's nothing wrong believing you can beat anyone, it's when you believe you cant beat anyone that you should be worried.

Jesus :eek: !!! Smemmon , your making complete sense .
I have to agree , with all of the post .

Töpher

smemon wrote:

i disagree, in fact i think most irish fans are still stuck in the pre-tiger era. to expect to win isnt arrogant, its realism. ireland are ranked 12th in the WORLD ahead of the the likes of the european champions and germany. i didnt put them there, we the fans didnt, the irish team has got there on merit and with that 12th place comes expectation and pressure to stay there.

i believe ireland can beat anyone in the world and win any group in the world, win the euro's and world cup. why? because ive seen them play, i KNOW like many others on their day ireland can beat anyone. however most irish fans are happy to finish 2nd and scrape through a nervewrecking play-off. they dont care how far the side goes, they just want to see ireland up against the very best, nick a couple of heroic wins and narrowly be beaten by a brazil.

thats the attitude pre-celtic tiger people had. atm, presently, not in the past ,NOWADAYS ireland are one of the BEST sides in the world with some of the best players - given, duff, keane.... there's nothing wrong believing you can beat anyone, it's when you believe you cant beat anyone that you should be worried.

100% in agreement. Well put.

eirebhoy

At the end of the day, what does it matter what the fans expectations are? Its the players expectations and goals that count. Higher fans expectations = more pressure. It also means less celebration when we beat the likes of Israel because we expect the team to. It also means more of a downer if we get knocked out earlier in a competition. What do we actually gain from the fans having high expectations?

Pigman II

It wasn't Kerr's tactics to sit back.

It wasn't? Is that why we've scored 1 goal or less in 17 of our 27 games under Kerr so far and why in 7 of the 11 games where we've conceeded a goal was after WE had already scored the first goal? Face it Kerr goes to bed at night and dreaming of 1-0 and expects nothing less when his players go out on the pitch.

Kerr made his faults and deserves critisism for whatever they were but will everyone (including the media) stop blaming managers when players sit back.

If not blame him then who? Are you now suggesting that the players are calling the shots out there because if you're right and they are then it's an even more serious problem then Kerr merely getting his tactics wrong.


//

WRT this thread I reckon the Swiss will win this group and we'll come second. I've seen nothing from France and Israel to suggest that they will last the distance but the Swiss have already shown their mettle several times now and that suggests to me that the'll be there or thereabouts come October.

The only team that can beat us now is ourselves, but I'm afraid that's more than enough to do it as far as I'm concerned.

Dewey

We really are in a great postion to finsh top of the group. This group is so tight that on the last game i wouldnt be surprised if who ever is top finshes 4th and the one who is 4th finshes top, its so close.

But what i believe is VITAL is that we pick up 6 points in june. If we fail to beat Israel then i believe Ireland will be looking at the play-offs. But if we get 6 points then We really should finsh in the top 2 without question.

If we fail to be Israel then Kerr will come in for some stick, because they arent the best team in the world and we can beat anyone at lansdowne. the feeling is so different to last saturday. everyone was like can Ireland get to Germany?...after the 1-1 with israel. then after israel drew with france, now its like lets book the flights .lol.

Still is alot of work to be done for the boys in green.

A Dub in Glasgo

smemon wrote:

i disagree, in fact i think most irish fans are still stuck in the pre-tiger era. to expect to win isnt arrogant, its realism. ireland are ranked 12th in the WORLD ahead of the the likes of the european champions and germany. i didnt put them there, we the fans didnt, the irish team has got there on merit and with that 12th place comes expectation and pressure to stay there.

i believe ireland can beat anyone in the world and win any group in the world, win the euro's and world cup. why? because ive seen them play, i KNOW like many others on their day ireland can beat anyone. however most irish fans are happy to finish 2nd and scrape through a nervewrecking play-off. they dont care how far the side goes, they just want to see ireland up against the very best, nick a couple of heroic wins and narrowly be beaten by a brazil.

thats the attitude pre-celtic tiger people had. atm, presently, not in the past ,NOWADAYS ireland are one of the BEST sides in the world with some of the best players - given, duff, keane.... there's nothing wrong believing you can beat anyone, it's when you believe you cant beat anyone that you should be worried.

Some valid points there but then you go in the hyperbole stuff which takes it far too much on the opposite side. If playing to the strentghs, Ireland can beat anyside in the world. That statement assumes we play well to our strengths and the other team does not.

Ireland do not play 'world class' consistantly enough to win the EC or the WC. Ireland are not one of the BEST sides in the world. Stating this is not negative, it is reality.

We can play better to win this group though.