England are too good at rugby.

Neil3030

Now the chances are i will get the head eaten off me but heck i'll say it anyway.

England should bow out of the 6 nations. They are just too damn good. Now regardless of what your opinions are of the nation and it's people, they are a damn good rugby team, who should be competing in the tri-nations. The 6 nations (5 up until last year) is becoming more and more like the english premiership in football. Every year it is a case of "who will try and inevitably fail to overcome England" as it is with Man Utd. I think the competition would be much more exciting, now that Ireland can now compete with the likes of France, if it was just Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy.

That way you would have at least 4 potential winners, instead of 1 inevitable winner.

the fnj

While it is true that England are performing very well recently I still think they are very beatable.

Wales and Scotland both seem to be on downward trends but they should bounce back.

Italy still has tons to learn.

France can beat any team in the world when they play. Unfortunately they have been miss managed and are being forced to play conventional rugby and not champagne rugby.

Who says Ireland can't take on the English machine? We are better equipt now then we have been in years. One or two changes to the Irish side and it has the potential to become on of the world's strongest sides. Look at the quality in the side and then look at the junior levels and what’s coming through.

I still think New Zealand and Australia are streets ahead of the rest. England may be good and may pull off upsets but they don't have the players to consistently take on the southern hemisphere. If they were to join the tri nations they would be paddled

Bard

Agreed, FANJ...

I'd love to go see Ireland v England - I think the Irish team are the only one in the 6 Nations who could actually cause an upset and beat them. ... and if they can beat the English ... they can win overall... it'd make a nice change from the occasional wooden spoon and shag-all else, eh?

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Neil3030

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I still think New Zealand and Australia are streets ahead of the rest. England may be good and may pull off upsets but they don't have the players to consistently take on the southern hemisphere. If they were to join the tri nations they would be paddled
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i suppose you have a good point there. it's consistansy that matters at the top. I suppose England are in a sort of unhappy medium at the moment.

Too good for the northern hemesphere
Not good enough for the southern

Ireland beating England??
Ireland first need to believe they can. there is a belief among supporters that they can. when i was at the French match and it was coming up to the last few minutes, i remarked to my mate that we were gift wrapping the championship to England, seeing as there is no chance in Hell of us beating them. then suddenly a guy turned around from in front of us and sed "Oh we'll beat England all rite, no bother. We can't lose in Lansdowne Road"

honestly, you get on a roll of 2 home wins and all of a sudden we are unbeatable?
If the teeam can play with that belief, we stand a chance.
But the English pack.....

Coyler

This is only my humble opinion but England are that good. They have beaten SA and Oz(playing below par also) this season and have walloped everyone else. Thats consistent enough for me.Incidently France beat NZ easily at the start of the season. NZ are certianly not in the top 3 at the mo and maybe out of the top 5.I'd say Ireland would run them all very close as well. I think because you dont see the southern hemisphere players all the time, there is some sort of allure/mystery about them. Matt Williams(former new south wales coach) reckons while the super12 does make for a better spectacle because of the lack refereing it results in players finding test rugby more difficult than a player coming from eurocup to test rugby. The Lions tour will be very interesting for this very reason. The last tour everyone thought they would be well beaten. I think the opinion is very different on this tour. Most Professional coach would certianly reckon England are the best team in the world at the mo and if there is a gap it is tiny and not the gulf that was evident even up until the world cup.

Oh and Ireland could beat england but would find it difficult and England would never leave the 6 nations for financal reason. Not saying they wont start playing the southern hemisphere teams more often though

Trojan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Neil3030:
Now the chances are i will get the head eaten off me but heck i'll say it anyway.

England should bow out of the 6 nations. They are just too damn good.

[SNIP]

That way you would have at least 4 potential winners, instead of 1 inevitable winner.</font>

Well, I won't eat your head off, but you are way off the mark there.

- In any given year France can beat England (or SA,NZ,AU for that matter)
- Ireland will beat England once every couple of years (I remember going to the a game a couple of years back (96?) when we were looking for the 3rd in a row).

Currently we do lack strength in the pack and consistancy, but I wouldn't bet my house on them beating us, would you?

Wish we could see more S12 on terrestrial here btw...

Al.

Neil3030

I'm not saying the Irish pack r ****. They are just not as good as England.

the fnj

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coyler:

Most Professional coach would certianly reckon England are the best team in the world at the mo and if there is a gap it is tiny and not the gulf that was evident even up until the world cup.

</font>

Talked to a "profesional coach" this morning (Was talking to my coach on the phone ). I asked him did he think England were the best team in the world. I got an expected no answer. While England have taken some big scalps recently they would do well to beat one of the big three in a World Cup Competion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Trojan:
Currently we do lack strength in the pack.
</font>

I don't know where you got that idea. In my opinion the Irish pack is very strong. A new full back and get rid of Howe and we would really be a dangerous side. Who would you replace in the pack?

Trojan

Sorry, maybe I need to qualify this a bit more.

I think our pack are pretty good in the loose, and very good in the line-out in particular, but something drastic needs to happen at scrums, we are very weak there. The same thing applies to Munster.

Maybe we just need a hell of a lot of scrummage practise. If not, our props would be possible candidates for replacement.

Al.


[This message has been edited by Trojan (edited 27-04-2001).]

Coyler

I think we will agree to differ on England's ability to beat Australia regulary, but SA and NZ are very weak for their standards. Apart from say Venter or Lomu(only because he is a monster), you would be hard pushed to put anyone form those teams ahead of the English at the mo. Following on from that, I agree with Trojan, The English pack is impressive especaily at scrum time. They turned over a lot of crucial ball in the 6 nations and apart from ourselves the standard is quite high in scrumming. IMHO the English pack would have five in a world XV. Vickery,Johnson,Back,Hill and Dallaglio. Those five players alone would make life difficult for any team not just Ireland.