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Why are women considered evil?

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  • #2


    In ancient times the female aspect of the divine had equal if not superior status the male. All ancient societies have powereful female deities going back to Mesopotamia. The rise of civilisation in the fertile crescent and the development of large scale urban societies led to the rise of armies and kings.
    Up until this all power had been held by women in their role as priestesses. Now men had overthrown them. To prevent a spiritual void/catastrophe as the avatars of the divine are overthrown by mere men and as all stories of gods and goddesses are just ways of dealing with the 'real world' this led to a rise in might of the masculine divine, so Nimpsi is supersceded by Baal Marduk, Isis becomes grieving consort to Osiris, Hera becomes wife to Zeus. All of these societies then needed a reason why this had happened, a past story that gave legitimacy to the overthrow. For the Mesopotamians, we see the armies of chaos led by a female who persuades her son/consort Kingu to rise against the gods, Ea being defeated and the rise of Baal Marduk who defeats the female by force of arms and kills Kingu (creating the world from his corpse thus the reason for all that is bad on the Earth and the evil in mens hearts). In Greece we see Pandoras box. Women are not to be trusted and are in fact sent by the gods to vex the hearts and mind of men as punishment for the gifts of fire and tools. And yet even in these cultures, women are still held in high esteem. Ceres/Demeter travels the earth teaching agriculture and viticulture (here acting as an aspect of Cybele). <br />The main problem in sorting through all of this is that in the area of the Middle East and Greece religion was passed and changed and passed back in a sort of Spiritual Chinese whispers. When one of these cultures decided that women were bad it was only a matter of time before they all did. Added to this many of the traditions of these Mesopotamian religions were incorporated into Judaism (which for a long time had a female aspect to Jehovah but which distrusts women of power - "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live") which in turn were incorporated into Christianity and Islam. But this is all dusting on the issue, reasoning gave for irrational behavior. The real reason that women have been vilified is that men fear them and the power that women hold over them. Sex and tears are the true weapons of war on this world :) While some men can use the first compared to skill women have in these tools we are but children against them.


  • #2


    May I respectfully direct you to the career of Madonna for a succinct answer to the question at hand. Should such ceaseless cynical manipulation and endless self promotion not provide you with an unleavened insight into the dark side of the female psyche, a quick listen to her lastest album will send you gibbering for comfort into the serried ranks of history's great misogynists.


  • #2


    "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is in fact a deliberate mistranslation orginally it was "thou shalt not suffer a poisioner to live" and witches can be male and female.

    oh and Toomevara what are you on about ? really the same tatics areused by male "artists"


  • #2


    Thaedydal wrote:
    "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is in fact a deliberate mistranslation orginally it was "thou shalt not suffer a poisioner to live" and witches can be male and female.

    oh and Toomevara what are you on about ? really the same tatics areused by male "artists"

    Bugger you got me, treating that shoddy, intellectually bankrupt post with the contempt it deserves.....'spose I alluded to madonna in respect of this debate because she manages to occupy so many female archetypes simultaneously...an often puzzling multiplicity for us males which often leads to complex female personalities being labelled wicked/evil.....


  • #2


    toomevara wrote:
    'spose I alluded to madonna in respect of this debate because she manages to occupy so many female archetypes simultaneously...an often puzzling multiplicity for us males which often leads to complex female personalities being labelled wicked/evil.....


    Ok which Madonnna ?

    If you refering to THE Madonna that is Mary mother of Jesus,
    well yes she did come to repasent many female archetypes as all other female gods and role models were swept aside and outlawed.
    She became the focus for many you would not give up thier worship of the mother godess, and she also comprised the maiden aspects as well.

    Ireland is a good example of this with the devotion to "Our Lady" and the wells shrines and places that are 'holy' to her.

    if you mean the recording artist madonna, why is she that different then any woman ?
    Why do we have to be eihter a virgins, a whoreor a mother ?

    oh and there is no such thing as a Dianic Wiccan Cult.


  • #2


    Thaedydal wrote:

    if you mean the recording artist madonna, why is she that different then any woman ?
    Why do we have to be eihter a virgins, a whoreor a mother ?

    Well of course you don't HAVE to be anything! Last time I looked we were living in a democracy which, at least espouses the principal of gender equality....A woman or for that matter a man, can legitimately present a multiplicity of identities/personality aspects to the wider world, and indeed I think its something that we all do on a regular basis...there's a little bit of the chameleon in us all....

    In respect of the current debate, I merely enlisted the aid of Madonna,albeit in a tongue-in-cheek manner, as an example of a woman who successfully, and (this is her true genius) often simultaneously,embodies all three of the archetypes you mentioned above....

    Obviously society (unfairly) doesn't label or ringfence men's roles in the same way that it does women's, and there are a whole slew of well debated historical and cultural reasons for this, which finally brings me to my point....I think complex, multifaceted female personalities have always presented a huge difficulty for traditional, culturally homogenous societies. Those women who transcend normative roles are often deemed transgressive, illogical, unbiddable and ultimately 'evil'. It's more convenient than attempting to deal with the challenge such a personality poses to wider society.....well at least i think that's what I'm trying to get at......:)


  • #2


    I alluded to madonna in respect of this debate because she manages to occupy so many female archetypes simultaneously

    There's a lot of interesting ideas here. I thought about roles being marked out forwomen through history.

    What exactly is an archetype though?


  • #2


    bucket wrote:

    What exactly is an archetype though?

    An archetype is a classic, clearly definable, definitive instance of something...for example the Archetypical Italian female is (arguably) Sophia loren, The archetypical supercar is the Ferrari......


  • #2


    An archetype is a classic, clearly definable, definitive instance of something...for example the Archetypical Italian female is (arguably) Sophia loren, The archetypical supercar is the Ferrari......

    great, thanks!


  • #2


    bucket wrote:

    What exactly is an archetype though?

    Incidentally,not to be confused with a 'stereotype' which has derogatory, negative connotations......


  • #2


    From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:

    stereotype
    n : a conventional or formulaic conception or image; "regional
    stereotypes have been part of America since its founding"
    v : treat or classify according to a mental stereotype; "I was
    stereotyped as a lazy Southern European" [syn: {pigeonhole},
    {stamp}]

    Stereotype is simply a collective label, attributing the same traits to each member of a group, considering them to be homogenous.
    Whether a stereotype is derogatory or not depends on who is making it, and why.
    Saying stereotypes are derogatory highlights the common perception, and I would agree with you in general, which is a good example of human nature and our tendency to fear, resent and label that which is different.


    OOooh Meridith!


  • #2


    SyxPak wrote:
    From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:

    stereotype
    n : a conventional or formulaic conception or image; "regional
    stereotypes have been part of America since its founding"
    v : treat or classify according to a mental stereotype; "I was
    stereotyped as a lazy Southern European" [syn: {pigeonhole},
    {stamp}]

    Stereotype is simply a collective label, attributing the same traits to each member of a group, considering them to be homogenous.
    Whether a stereotype is derogatory or not depends on who is making it, and why.
    Saying stereotypes are derogatory highlights the common perception, and I would agree with you in general, which is a good example of human nature and our tendency to fear, resent and label that which is different.


    OOooh Meridith!

    Agree wholeheartedly....especially interms of your dictionary definition, but 'stereotype' for me is one of those words whose meaning has morphed in contemporary usage....i.e. what it actually means and is taken to mean are two completely different things!

    For example, and I know we've now gone completely OT, for which I apologise profusely , but this topic is one of my bugbears...the word 'decimate', originally as you no doubt know, derived from the practice of decimation, in the Roman Legions, where, when a unit had disgraced itself one in every 10 men were executed....Hardly a catastrophic loss (not very pleasant for those singled out, mark you!) but now used by all and sundry to signify catastrophic loss or destruction..there are now so many of these terms that we could be here all day and it drives me nuts when people mis-use or mal-apropriate them...yep, I know i've little to be worrying about......:)


  • #2


    Basically because they'd get into tricking men... Just a living proof that we outsmart them :D ...thus, to square us up, they'd poke their fingers and yell 'YOU WOMEN ARE EVIL!'...hah!:mad:


  • #2


    Women are seen as evil cos we make men act stupid!!! Lol In fairness A beautiful woman walking into a bar, 20 guys then sticking out the chests, acting macho (when they aint!), and vying for her attention sometimes it starting arguments and fights!! Women lead men to temptation, lead them into debt (money - fine my sister in law did do this to my brother so some women do but not all!!!)

    the list goes on.... at the moment its my bf thats leading me into temptation regarding money - he's worse then me!!!


  • #2


    Regarding the OP. Because the church demonized women to create a male dominated society. Though I'm sure the point has been made that in other societies and histories there are indeed powerful women.

    It's all about balance tbh. Equilibrium is required, so mostly you'll find good and bad guys and girls in all history and myth.


  • #2


    I think it has to do with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions or the actions of nature ... needing to blame someone else.


  • #2


    You're right. It's always easier to blame someone else


  • #2


    In my opinion womens are not evil but at some time or stages their decisions are really evil.


  • #2


    People are usually threatened or fearful of that which they don't understand and most of these myth's and stories which paint women in a bad light are written by men.


  • #2


    I find De Morriga, Badb Fea etc. and the Daughter of Balor and Brighaide to be positive depictions. If I had a choice of following or dying for or falling in love with an entity who could be termed "beyond mortal", these aspects of the Feminine would always be first for me.


  • #2


    Wow, so many interesting myths. This is intriguing.


  • #2


    eire4 wrote: »
    People are usually threatened or fearful of that which they don't understand and most of these myth's and stories which paint women in a bad light are written by men.

    Haha, totally agree with you. Jesus, Zeus and other powerful ones in myth usually are male.


  • #2


    Don't worry about it. People wanted to have their cake and eat it policticly.

    Still though, I wish yous all the best 'Jezabel hunting' on boards. They be real.


  • #2


    Because they are......


  • #2


    Because Eve started it all ?


  • #2


    tombrown wrote: »
    Because Eve started it all ?

    Or in other words

    Because they are not men. Go figure ...


  • #2


    Well Eve who happens to be the first one happen to get is kicked out of the garden, so it figures.....


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