Creating a Server..

Guru Maith Agut

Anybody who has completed such a task, I could do with some input i.e. What Server package to use: SME Server, Windows Server 2003
Bearing in mind that I am just learning this but want to have my Domain name hosted by moi and maybe host a forum. All knowledgeable help appreciated!
Read me links a help also but to get the idea of which package I should use to begin with would be a start.

Cheers.

osmethod

Are you planning on hosting for yourself on your own internal lan or are you planning on hosting so that users on the internet have access to e.g. your forum..?

osmethod

Guru Maith Agut

osmethod wrote:

Are you planning on hosting for yourself on your own internal lan or are you planning on hosting so that users on the internet have access to e.g. your forum..?

osmethod

Yeah I'm planning on the latter. It won't be a big project but just something basic to get started. We all gotta start somewhere I guess..

Snowbat

Guru Maith Agut wrote:

Anybody who has completed such a task, I could do with some input i.e. What Server package to use: SME Server, Windows Server 2003.

Linux or one of the BSDs running Apache web server. Why on earth would you want to use Windows?

Bearing in mind that I am just learning this but want to have my Domain name hosted by moi and maybe host a forum. All knowledgeable help appreciated!
Read me links a help also but to get the idea of which package I should use to begin with would be a start.

For internet-facing server(s), you'll need to get a fixed ip address from your ISP unless you're planning to use a dyndns or similar domain.

Redhat is the most popular Linux distro for web serving. Apache is the most popular web server and comes standard with most Linux distros. Look at phpBB for forums, also comes standard with most Linux distros.

Guru Maith Agut

Snowbat wrote:

Why on earth would you want to use Windows?

I just thought it might be user friendly and that. All the others I have looked at seem to need major qualifications to get to grips with... Maybe I was wrong?

Boro

Linux has gotten a lot easier to install and configure since the auld days.

aidan_walsh

Boro wrote:

Linux has gotten a lot easier to install and configure since the auld days.

Windows has also become quite stable and suitable as a server OS.

Rew

Server 2003 yes but its incredibly expensive and linux is still alot more flexible with the amount of open source software thats available for it. And free...

You will learn alot more about networking, web servers etc. using linux. And as Boro said its become alot more user friendly even for the novice. Linux + Google and you can do anything ya want.

osmethod

Considering you are allowing external access to this setup......

If you don't set it up and configure it correctly I reckon you'd be scanned and compromised in a very short space of time.

Couple of questions first....?

1. Are you using a broadband ADSL router, with an ethernet/usb port connected to an existing machine...?

2. Have you used linux/*bsd on the command line...?

3. Can you specify what your existing lan setup is like...?

Then there are plenty here to give you sound advice...

osmethod

Dr_MalPractice

then there's always the security holes in windows to consider...

optiplexgx270

Dr_MalPractice wrote:

then there's always the security holes in windows to consider...

I love the way on boards across the world someone says windows next thing oh security bad bad bad. Heck if you keep a good security model in place you will have no probs and its far easier to use <edit>for a beginner</edit> (having worked with both). The only reason i'd recomend unix/linux is if you have an interest in learning about it. Windows 200 server will do fine 2003 (im guessing your not buying it) if you have it.

Static M.e.

Go with what ever you are most comfortable with, if you dont use Linux regularly and do use windows, then use windows.

Dont mind all the Windows bashing crap, any server is only as secure as you make it

Also a site worth checking out might be
http://www.cisecurity.org/

Although it is at this moment its fine tuning its 2003 tool, the information on the site itself is quite good

Btw if you are a student you can really cheap server licence's.

If you do decide to go either way, let people know and Im sure loads of links / info can be gotten for you to secure your server

Khannie

For an external web server and someone who's not a security guru, I think that learning how to use Linux would be a valueable investment.

You're just less likely to get screwed IMO.

Don't get me wrong....I'm not an MS basher....I just reckon that Linux has the security edge for security beginners. I've happily left apache running on a linux box that is static IP'd and always on. No problems to date (though it's currently not on....long story).

Also, setting up apache on windows is no easier than on Linux. Most of the time it just works out of the box anyway.

guru: I'm willing to post you a copy of Fedora Core 3 on dvd if you want it (don't say yes unless you're actually going to use it), though an enterprise version of Linux (probably Suse or Redhat) is probably more what you're after since you get after sales support with purchased versions.

Rew

SuSE is the busniess even without support. 9.2 is very impresive and 9.3 is due out soon and will be another big step forward.

axer

Anyone know what the newest version of red hat linux is? I've got 9 (or 9.2 - cant remember) - is that far behind?

po0k

Put the box in the DMZ of your router.

Static M.e.

For an external web server and someone who's not a security guru, I think that learning how to use Linux would be a valueable investment.

Agreed for external.

Learning Linux IS a valuable investment and well worth the struggle (which im in the middle of atm) but for just getting a running on an internal lan, I would still go for windows, simply because I just dont know Linux well enough yet.

anyway another site for you OP
http://www.windowsecurity.com/

Some good articles.

Capt'n Midnight

Guru Maith Agut wrote:

I just thought it might be user friendly and that. All the others I have looked at seem to need major qualifications to get to grips with... Maybe I was wrong?

Boro wrote:

Linux has gotten a lot easier to install and configure since the auld days.

There are several bootable Linux CDs with web sharing built in, and as long as you don't have any strange or newly developed hardware something like Knoppix would require minimal setup - ok Knoppix is not rock solid from a security point of view, but it would beat a default setup of windows every time. The other advantage of Linux is that you can get firewalls built in, but with windows its a purchasable add on or an external box. Luckily microsoft don't charge licenses for each web client that connects, but be wary if you plan to deploy other services on it as many do need licencing and the costs rack up very quickly.

If the server is for internal use and you already client licenses for all the services you plan to run in the future then windows is fine.

Apache (and Squid) use very similar config files for windows and linux the main difference being folder names \ vs. / - so you could config the site on windows and move to a linux box when you want to go live later on - if you are running fancy back end services this may not be an option.

re: cheap student licenses - they only last as long as you are a student.

epgriffin

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

re: cheap student licenses - they only last as long as you are a student.

Not necessarily. I've gotten a few bits and pieces (inc Server 2003 Enterprise) from the university through the MSDN Academic Alliance. It costs the uni less than 1000 yoyo's a year and they can give most MSDN software to the students for use on uni machines and on their own personal machines for FREE. According to the document I signed to get it I can use it after I graduate as long as it's not for commercial use, and naturally there's no support or upgrade path.

Static M.e.

Uni's and Charitys get MS software at 25% of cost if I remember correctly (Although that was over 18 months ago, it still stands im sure)

Guru Maith Agut

Okay. Thats a lot of stuff to get through, including the links so I best get started. Firstly, thanks to all who replied so far. Its nice to see so many add useful info instead of what I have seen on some posts in the past. I'm not a student no, (37 actually) but aren't we all still students of life till we finally croak.. I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to programming/servers and general heavy knowledge stuff but I can manouvere my way round a pc to a fair extent. I was kinda hoping that I could get something that pretty much ran itself once installed (how green am I :rolleyes: ) bar firewalling and security of some sort. I currently have 3 machines, all running XP 1st Ed. Home and have just registered a .com domain name. While I know its possible to get free hosting from some places (minus space, ****ty banners and what seems like a lot of downtime) but I aint really using the third machine so I thought I'd look into this. The three pcs are networked and get their internet access wirelessly through a Linksys Gateway/Router on Eircom BB (all running smoothely).

Khannie wrote:

guru: I'm willing to post you a copy of Fedora Core 3 on dvd if you want it (don't say yes unless you're actually going to use it), though an enterprise version of Linux (probably Suse or Redhat) is probably more what you're after since you get after sales support with purchased versions.

I'd really appreciate that Khannie but after you read what I posted above I don't want to be wasting your time if you feel that there would be to much involved in me getting to grips with Fedora (your call my friend ). Thanks again for all who posted but now you know a little more, am I biting off more than I can chew or am I teachable?

Cheers folks!

optiplexgx270

One point ill just put in is that Eircom Broadband do not allow you to run webservers on their home packages and also you will have a dynamic ip address so you will need to use a service like dyndns.org

Guru Maith Agut

optiplexgx270 wrote:

One point ill just put in is that Eircom Broadband do not allow you to run webservers on their home packages and also you will have a dynamic ip address so you will need to use a service like dyndns.org

No problem. I was going to bump up to the first business package if that was the case anyway. Is DynDns free?

Capt'n Midnight

RE: MSDN Academic Alliance. - it's A maze(ing) to see how many different license schemes there are - also have to drill down deep to see if perpetual or term based licenses
http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/msdn/student/
http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/education/howtobuy/doyouqualify.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/education/licensing/comparison-table.asp

Khannie

optiplexgx270 wrote:

One point ill just put in is that Eircom Broadband do not allow you to run webservers on their home packages and also you will have a dynamic ip address so you will need to use a service like dyndns.org

IOL / esat give static IP's. I have one.

Guru Maith Agut

Tied into yearly contract with Eircom so can't do much about that..

ChRoMe

The original poster seems to be fairly new to all of this. Can I suggest that you dont get a static ip address _until_ you are happy you box is running correctly and is totally locked down. You will be able to escape from targeted attacks with a dynamic ip much easier than with a static (for obivous reasons). Which means that it will be a better testbed

ChRoMe

osmethod

Without sounding overly paranoid, if a misconfigured pc is hanging out on the internet you can bet it will be compromised. Whether this is important to you or not is up to yourself.

Typically on linux or Freebsd, to host your own public ip you'll need a dns server, typically known as bind, to host a webserver you'll need apache, to enable the other machines get out to the internet via this pc you'll need a proxy known as squid. From a firewall point of view you'll need iptables. You could also put a mail server on e.g. postfix + cyrus + fetchmail. Upgrading can be a bit of a learning curve also... different linux distros have different methods e.g. rpm, apt...

This is a steep learning curve for a novice. You may also find a degree of frustration in learning it because different linux distros put the config files in different directories.

Freebsd, in my view only.... for a novice is easier to learn from being more consistent in this sense. It also has an excellent tool for downloading updates - cvsup or pkgadd, upgrading - portupgrade etc. It also has a far more intuitive firewall called PF.

Microsoft OTH will cost you money... a webserver for windows can be Internet Information Server or Apache, Mailserver is Exchange, A proxy could be MSproxy, DNS will be DNS Server and a firewall...Desktop firewall might be zonealarm, MS Firewall - ISA. Alot of money! Also, plenty to configure.

With MS you'll also find many 3rd party apps which can also do the above instead.

Either way, it wiil take time to learn and implement. You are your own best judge. All the same there is plenty of tutorials, wiki's on the web to help you along and if you have the time it is a nice learning experience.

If you do pursue it seeing as you have a third box free why not try setting up everything on this box internally - do not connect to the net, treat it standalone till you've set it up and tested it. This way you also won't interfere with your existing "working" setup.

osmethod

Guru Maith Agut

osmethod wrote:

If you do pursue it seeing as you have a third box free why not try setting up everything on this box internally - do not connect to the net, treat it standalone till you've set it up and tested it. This way you also won't interfere with your existing "working" setup.

osmethod

Sounds like a lot of sense well spoken to me! I'll give that a go internally first yeah and see how I go. Cheers for the tips os!

osmethod

No problen Guru...! Spoken by a 30 something also...lol

osmethod

Guru... This article should give you a good start at your server.

http://www.flexbeta.net/main/articles.php?action=show&id=87&perpage=1&pagenum=1

It refers to Linux Mandrake 10.1 and covers firewall, DNS, proxy,

If you check the computer magazines you may find a copy on a DVD on one.
Otherwise, you can download it here 6 CD Iso's or 1 DVD Iso here...

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp-premium.php3

osmethod

Guru Maith Agut

LOL
Were you lookind over my shoulder last night cos at about 1:00 this morning I had just installed FreeBSD on the spare pc and was debating going online but reckoned nobody would be around so hit the sack instead..

osmethod wrote:

Freebsd, in my view only.... for a novice is easier to learn from being more consistent in this sense. It also has an excellent tool for downloading updates - cvsup or pkgadd, upgrading - portupgrade etc. It also has a far more intuitive firewall called PF.

I had major problems getting it on my network but as it turned out my NIC was fubar'd but luckily I had a spare one and stuck it in and low and behold I can see all the files on it now. Only thing now is, I followed a walkthrough on the FreeBSD site and I can't ascertain whether or not I should be able to see my pc on the Web or if I need a static IP first..?
As for Linux and that site you posted for me, do they run side by side (freeBSD & Linux) or is Linux the OS with BSD running in the background? Also, can I run apps in BSD from another pc on my network or do I need to have a monitor constantly plugged in to the "third" machine? Basically I just wanted to leave the Base unit down beside the BB Modem & Linksys Router/Gateway to conserve space..

osmethod

I assume by "Getting it on my network" your using a private ip address like 192.168.0.3 or similar..?

1. FreeBSD is a completely independent Operating System from Linux though both are similar.

2. "to see my pc on the Web or if I need a static IP first..?"- Can you be more specific? I thought you were starting standalone first...?

3. Actually, you can setup a FreeBSD/Linux box to run without keyboard, mouse also. No you don't need a monitor but look at the following first....

To run apps on the FreeBSD from your XP PC...
If its only the command line download "putty" for Windows at

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html

You'll need to setup sshd on your FreeBSD box to be able to communicate.

If you want to run X Display Managers on FreeBSD from XP have a read TightVNC at http://www.freebsddiary.org/tightvnc.php

4. Some good articles -
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/ct/15
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html
(read all this hanbook..! Especially, after successfully installing FreeBSD read Chapter 4 - Installing Applications: Packages and Ports)

osmethod

jozi

Is mandrake much good for a server? I'm ussing clarkconnect at the moment but after reading that mandrake tutorial im considering changing over.
What i really need is something that will take care of the internet connections and bandwith to each pc, firewall function, samba service maybe ftp
Ohh and possible sticky this thread, seems like there is a lot of information here

Jozi

osmethod

Josi...

I suggested mandrake in Guru's case as he explained in the thread he was a novice. That tutorial went step by step with graphics so I was assuming it would make it easier to understand for him.

Any linux distro/BSD will work as a firewall/proxy/web server/ftp server etc...

Some linux distro's can be designed to make it alot more user friendly to configure for web services etc...

osmethod

The_Thing

Hi there, Guru Maith Agut,

you might like to have a look at an all in one web server suite I found at http://www.devside.net/

DeveloperSide.NET Web-Server Suite, for Windows 2000/XP

The DeveloperSide.NET Web-Server Suite is a free software package that transforms your Windows 2000/XP system into a dynamic and versatile Web-Server.

Suitable for both beginners and professionals, a complete turnkey solution is provided that is capable of deploying a personal Website for the average individual or creating an Internet presence for a business.

The DeveloperSide.NET Web-Server Suite incorporates a framework of the best-of-breed server components and user applications that are integrated into one package, fully configured and ready to run.

A Web-Server base composed of Apache 2.0, MySQL 4.0, PHP 4.3, and Perl 5.8 is extended with mod_perl (Apache-to-Perl integration), mod_deflate (compression), and mod_ssl/OpenSSL (secured communications). The Web-Server is further combined with essential tools and applications such as Analog (log analyzer), phpMyAdmin (MySQL front-end), and other components; forming an ideal self-hosting solution.

Features:

* easy to install (and uninstall)
* operates on virtually any Windows NT/2000/XP system
* ideal for home users with DSL, Cable, or even Dial-Up connections
* stable and reliable, built on mature technologies
* secured and hardened against unauthorized access
* allows user to operate own Domain Name and Website from a home based PC

Regards,

The Thing