Any Software Designers / Usability Experts out there?

Sleepy

Bit of background first, I'm a Commerce graduate that had a major in MIS and did a H. Dip in Systems Analysis after that. Currently working as a support consultant on a large ERP/FMS.

Even before leaving college, I was astounded at the low standard of system design. Very few software companies seem to build software according to even the most basic principles of interface design. With the support aspect of my job, I see the same problems coming in that while according to the company would be blamed on end-user errors, I'd blame them on poor systems design (lack of intuitiveness, poor screen design etc.) and I've become interested in fixing these problems at source: by designing better systems.

I'm not overly technically qualified (as in I can program VB6, hack about in PHP and JAVA but would be pretty competent with SQL etc.)

Just wondering if any of you out there have a career in software design and/or usability, how you got into it? Are there any good part-time courses out there in it? Or anyone out there looking for an eager to learn apprentice

leeroybrown

If you look carefully at the income streams of some of the major companies that develop these ERP/FMS you'll notice that a sizable part of their income can come from customising/localising these packages so that they work for the client company. Sometimes I get the impression that an effort to design them better would end up being money spent on reducing profit.

voxpop

In alot of companies either the "developers" dont know good design or the bosses above them want something as quick as possible - then you get a support contract and fix the bugs. Awful way to run a company i know.

I really think that alot of software companies would benifit alot from a dedicated technical arch, who could design out the projects before any development began - but then you're extending the development cycle and so costing the dev company more money and so reducing profits.

Sleepy

leeroybrown, the income stream from localising and customising an ERP/FMS package will always be there, regardless of the quality of the product from a usability standpoint.

Penguin I agree with you that a lot of software companies simply couldn't be bothered with usability, however if one looks at the evolution of Microsoft Windows, Office etc. it's easy to see that some companies do concern themselves with making their software easier to use.

The success of Jakob Nielsen and the lucrative rates he seems to be able to charge as the grandfather of usability would indicate that there is indeed a market out there for usability experts and software design consulting. So, anyone out there involved in it?

Earthhorse

Sleepy, I share your interest in this line of work though I wouldn't be as qualified as you.

I doubt there are many, if any, people employed in this line of work in Ireland. Even in the states design and usability expert positions are thin on the ground and this is where a lot of the large software producers operate.

It'll take a while before businesses realise the value of design expertise. If they ever do at all.

Sleepy

Doesn't seem like there's anyone here involved really. Oh well, back to reading useit and asktog for me.

madramor

1:
UI design is relative, women/men, left brain/right brain people,
technical/non-technical, age, etc.. all have an effect on what
UI the user prefares.

2:
most UI are designed to be similar to each other to allow users
from different systems to know the basics of all systems.
ie File -> Open is standard on nearly all software apps.
its easy to go from one mail app to another due to the standard UI
across different company products

3:
"I see the same problems coming in that while according to the company would be blamed on end-user errors, I'd blame them on poor systems design (lack of intuitiveness, poor screen design etc.)"
yes this is end user error.
the user is thought how to use the system, if they don't use it correctly
it can cause problems.
even if you had the best system(relative) you would still get end user
errors.

4:
"I've become interested in fixing these problems at source: by designing better systems."
by designing better systems do you mean you rewrite the whole code base,
or change a small part of the ui.
The fact that you can change the UI to suit different users, without
knowing how the real work is done in the backgoround is a sign of a very
well designed system.

5:
Jakob Nielsen
is hated and loved in equal amounts, again UI design relative

6:
working in a technical support position you are at the front line
when it comes to user satisfaction with system.
rather than saying Im so much better at designing UI than the developers
who get payed 4 or 5 times what you do.
start documenting your changes.ie
This UI design is getting on average 100 errors per month.
I made these changes and know I'm only getting 50 error per month.

you already have a job, use your initiative and try to progress your
career at a faster pace, using the technique above, rather than crying
on a board why don't you be professional and discuss the matter with
your boss.

7:
if you want somebody to give you a job, its not a good idea to look
for one by saying how greater you thing you are, and how bad the other
people is your company are at doing their jobs(designing UIs)

tempest

madramor wrote:

1:
UI design is relative, women/men, left brain/right brain people,
technical/non-technical, age, etc.. all have an effect on what
UI the user prefares.

True, but I think that this has very little to do with the question.

madramor wrote:

2:
most UI are designed to be similar to each other to allow users
from different systems to know the basics of all systems.
ie File -> Open is standard on nearly all software apps.
its easy to go from one mail app to another due to the standard UI
across different company products

Also True, but I think that this has very little to do with the question.

madramor wrote:

3:
"I see the same problems coming in that while according to the company would be blamed on end-user errors, I'd blame them on poor systems design (lack of intuitiveness, poor screen design etc.)"
yes this is end user error.
the user is thought how to use the system, if they don't use it correctly
it can cause problems.
even if you had the best system(relative) you would still get end user
errors.

False. The point is that well built systems don't have these problems. Systems should validate these "End User Errors" and provide helpful informative information. Preferably as in the original quote the UI into the system have been suitably designed so that the issue never arises in the first place.

madramor wrote:

4:
"I've become interested in fixing these problems at source: by designing better systems."
by designing better systems do you mean you rewrite the whole code base,
or change a small part of the ui.
The fact that you can change the UI to suit different users, without
knowing how the real work is done in the backgoround is a sign of a very
well designed system.

True and a good point as regards development and design goals. I think you missed the point though. The goal is that he would like to be able to put the effort into the design phase of a project to prevent such changes.

madramor wrote:

5:
Jakob Nielsen
is hated and loved in equal amounts, again UI design relative

Don't know who he is but will do some research. I'll have to take your word for it.

madramor wrote:

6:
working in a technical support position you are at the front line
when it comes to user satisfaction with system.
rather than saying Im so much better at designing UI than the developers
who get payed 4 or 5 times what you do.
start documenting your changes.ie
This UI design is getting on average 100 errors per month.
I made these changes and know I'm only getting 50 error per month.

you already have a job, use your initiative and try to progress your
career at a faster pace, using the technique above, rather than crying
on a board why don't you be professional and discuss the matter with
your boss.

I agree with the sentiment but not your phrasing. He has obviously noticed the problems and wants to fix them. The post here is to ask how to go about it, not to be berated for his approach. Your advice is good though and is exactly what he should be encouraged to do. Attack the problem in a positive manner. Document the concept and the changes required and send it to an appropriate person.

madramor wrote:

7:
if you want somebody to give you a job, its not a good idea to look
for one by saying how greater you thing you are, and how bad the other
people is your company are at doing their jobs(designing UIs)

Actually, it's one of the best ways of looking for a job. He should sell himself as best he can at what he wants to be. Of course he will be measured by that scale so he will need to perform to his claims. But if he believes he can do it then of course he should say it.

.....
To sleepy, the best of luck with your career. Your ideals are worthy although you will find that no one in the industry will focus on these immediately. You need to make the business case of how much money the company will make. It sounds to me like you are well qualified to do system design or at least the business analysis. Why not look out in the company you work for in the Business Analysts section? Maybe do a night course in Business Analysis to supplement what you already have. It seems to me you just need to sell it properly to the people in charge and or people in another company and make the right connections. Then again I can only infer from what you've said. Once again best of luck...

Sleepy

madramor wrote:

1:I design is relative, women/men, left brain/right brain people, technical/non-technical, age, etc.. all have an effect on what
UI the user prefares.

Of course they do, taking account of the userbase is part of software design.

2: most UI are designed to be similar to each other to allow users
from different systems to know the basics of all systems.
ie File -> Open is standard on nearly all software apps.
its easy to go from one mail app to another due to the standard UI
across different company products

Not always and this is only done on a defacto standard basis.

3:
"I see the same problems coming in that while according to the company would be blamed on end-user errors, I'd blame them on poor systems design (lack of intuitiveness, poor screen design etc.)"
yes this is end user error.
the user is thought how to use the system, if they don't use it correctly
it can cause problems.
even if you had the best system(relative) you would still get end user
errors.

I take this to be a typical response from someone trying to defend poor design standards. Most end-users are not as technically minded as the developer. Good design will result in users being able to use the system more intuitively and should therefore reduce both end user errors and training costs.

4:
"I've become interested in fixing these problems at source: by designing better systems."
by designing better systems do you mean you rewrite the whole code base,
or change a small part of the ui.
The fact that you can change the UI to suit different users, without
knowing how the real work is done in the backgoround is a sign of a very
well designed system.

I mean by working in the early stages of the product life cycle to ensure the interface design is gotten right from the off. I don't know what product you're reffering to that allows you to change the UI to suit different users but yes, it sounds like a very well designed system.

5:Jakob Nielsen
is hated and loved in equal amounts, again UI design relative

Can you refer me to some of his critics? I'm genuinely interested in reading other usability experts that disagree with his opinions. If you mean he's hated by programmers/developers, of course he is: the very nature of pointing out design flaws is bound to bruise a few egos.

6:working in a technical support position you are at the front line
when it comes to user satisfaction with system.
rather than saying Im so much better at designing UI than the developers
who get payed 4 or 5 times what you do.
start documenting your changes.ie
This UI design is getting on average 100 errors per month.
I made these changes and know I'm only getting 50 error per month.

you already have a job, use your initiative and try to progress your
career at a faster pace, using the technique above, rather than crying
on a board why don't you be professional and discuss the matter with
your boss.

I'm not in a position to change UI's in my job, I provide support consulting for a system we don't even have access to the code for. I'd also question why you think programmers necessarily make the best UI designers. The disciplines are quite different as they use different skillsets (i.e. mathematics/logic versus psychology and an understanding of human nature). Why do you think "I'm crying on a board"? I'm just interested in a different career path and asking is there anyone out there currently working in the career I'd like to follow.

7:if you want somebody to give you a job, its not a good idea to look
for one by saying how greater you thing you are, and how bad the other
people is your company are at doing their jobs(designing UIs)

Again, I'm not criticising anyone in my company. We provide 3rd party consulting so the problems I'd see with design in the product I'm currently working on are not the fault of anyone I work with. I'd also see design flaws in a lot of other software I either use myself or have come across inother spheres of my life.

Frankly, you sound like you have a serious chip on your shoulder about someone in the past criticising something you've developed. I posted here to ask had anyone experience of a certain field, how did they get into it, what further education is available etc. My last line was entirely in jest because imho you'd be pretty stupid to hire someone based on the fact they express an interest in a certain area of business.

Sleepy

tempest wrote:

To sleepy, the best of luck with your career. Your ideals are worthy although you will find that no one in the industry will focus on these immediately. You need to make the business case of how much money the company will make. It sounds to me like you are well qualified to do system design or at least the business analysis. Why not look out in the company you work for in the Business Analysts section? Maybe do a night course in Business Analysis to supplement what you already have. It seems to me you just need to sell it properly to the people in charge and or people in another company and make the right connections. Then again I can only infer from what you've said. Once again best of luck...

The thing is tempest, I believe that usability and software design is going to be a very big area in IT in the next few years. It's not something I'd be looking at doing within my current company as we're not in the right area of the business for this to be a potential career path here. It's something I'd love to do full-time for a software house or on a consultancy basis. I'm reasonably qualified from the HDSA, but I'd like to study this area in far more depth than I ahve done so far. A night course in Business Analysis sounds like a starting point alright. Can anyone recommend one they've done in the past?

madramor

Sleepy wrote:

I'd also see design flaws in a lot of other software I either use myself or have come across inother spheres of my life.

Sleepy wrote:

software design is going to be a very big area in IT in the next few years

are you talking about UI design or software design?I'll assume UI
without software design software dosen't work, companies dont just
hack out code it is a long process. 25% design 50% code 25% testing
end users are involved at every stage of the process.
software design came before most modern programming languages.

Sleepy wrote:

I'm reasonably qualified from the HDSA, but I'd like to study this area in far more depth than I ahve done so far. A night course in Business Analysis sounds like a starting point alright.

are you talking about UI design?I'll assume so
a business analysis course is not what you want, UI design is a specialised
area.
the only time i've encountered one was a guy who worked for google that
i met at a conference.
he had a degree in psycology and then did a Phd in UI design(in states)

madramor

here you are

http://www.fineos.com/careers/jobs/FIN04.htm

Sleepy

Madramer. I'm not actually sure which area interests me more (i.e. the design phase of the sdlc or the actual UI design) but I do think that good software design does involve having a well designed, intuitive UI. I'd probably prefer doing the actual UI design, but my qualifications and experience to date would have prepared me better for the former. It would appear to be a pretty difficult field to break into however so the idea of an extra qualification seems like a good one

companies dont just hack out code

I'm not so sure about that

Sleepy

madramor wrote:

here you are

http://www.fineos.com/careers/jobs/FIN04.htm

That looks exactly like what I'd like to get into in the short term!

Minimum 4-6 years experience in the software industry, with at least 2 years experience in an Analyst role.

Unfortunately, I've closer to 2 years experience than 6. Thanks anyway though, they look like a good company, I'll keep an eye out for more junior analyst positions with them

RicardoSmith

In my experience most companies aren't interested in UI or usability. Its usually a case of getting it working, and then get it out there. UI and usability isn't really a concern. Sure they may stick in on the advertising and marketing blurb. But usually its not something most companies are interested in.

Programmers generally focus on technical issues, and cool ways of doing things, and how they think it should work. Not how the end user wants it. My fav example of this is as follows. If you ask a programmer to give you car that gives you no engine trouble, he will give you back a car with no engine. I've seen the equivent of this a lot in software development. Especially with OO systems for some reason.

From a support end, you will see patterns to user support calls that can often point to problems with the interface. But theres a huge leap from that to persuading a company to do anything about it.

Another problem is that theres a lot of snake oil salesmen in the UI/Usability sector. So credibility is a big problem.

roundcrisis

Sleepy wrote:

Just wondering if any of you out there have a career in software design and/or usability, how you got into it? Are there any good part-time courses out there in it? Or anyone out there looking for an eager to learn apprentice

hi there: replying yr question there is a full time course in software engineering wich is a postgraduate degree. basically this is the study of the diferent methods to design software, problem is belive it or not there is no work available for this, i have specialised in formal methods, wich is mathematical aproach to the design (very interesting) but i could never get experience on the field, so the last time i saw this was 4 or 5 years ago (crap innit) developers take design very ligh if it "works" nevermind usability then that s it and then people moan about it but the developer got their money already and they are gone or they would do it "tomorrow"
and its not saying that developers are to blame its just how the mind works and how money works

roundcrisis

and you can see a perfect example of what i m saying in ricardosmyth post
good design takes a bit of time of the designer and the company you are designing for and noone wants to pay 4 it, in the end it cost moe money to the company (paying for employee time to use badly designed software) but its very hard to make a company understand this.

KlodaX

http://www.interaction-ivrea.it

Ireland appears to be behind other countries when it comes to user centered design ... the colleges would like to think we are ahead, but I don't think we are at all. I myself would give my left pinky for a job in interaction design. After finishing a BSc in commercial computing (a follow on to software development) I think it would be necessary to start from scratch on a new degree in something similar to graphic design or physcology.

I think Sleepy if you are to persue this further you will need to leave the country ... best of luck with it. Please keep posting, I like to see how it goes.