Bushido Results/Comments

john kavanagh

well i thought the promotions team did a great job for their first big event here in Ireland. great lights, big screens, drums and all the other trimmings that go with a top class production.

the final tally finished at 1 win for ireland 1 draw and 5 wins for england. not the result that we were hoping for but i'm very proud of the lads for getting in there and being warriors. i couldv'e organised the card to be 7 easy fights for the lads but dont see the point in doing that and instead set up all the fights to be tough and close and couldv'e went either way on the night. this makes it a challenge for the lads and an exciting night for the crowd.

BUT i have to say there was a few people in the crowd that really let the great reputation ireland has for good supporters down. between using foul language, obscene gestures at the uk opponents and even at one stage firing objects into the ring. its a shame but probably to be expected that when you run a show with over 3000 spectators there is going to be a few complete LOUD DRUNK IGNORANT IDIOTS who will lower the tone and make a bad impression with the english athletes. i just hope they realise it was a small minority.

there was also the fiasco with jimmy curren. he is nothing to do with my gym and i have nothing to do with his training so cant comment on what happened. i'll let someone who knows post here why he didnt fight.

anyway i hope those who were there enjoyed it and will come here to give the fighters props

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson

Kevin_rc_ie

Unfortunetly John I missed this event. Can you post the results? Like X v Y with X winning my decision etc. Can't seem to find a website with the fight card either.

breadmonkey

BUT i have to say there was a few people in the crowd that really let the great reputation ireland has for good supporters down. between using foul language, obscene gestures at the uk opponents and even at one stage firing objects into the ring. its a shame but probably to be expected that when you run a show with over 3000 spectators there is going to be a few complete LOUD DRUNK IGNORANT IDIOTS who will lower the tone and make a bad impression with the english athletes. i just hope they realise it was a small minority.

Totally agree with this, I thought it was a disgrace the way the English fighters were treated after all the work they put in to prepare. Fair play to Colm for trying to get the crowd to stop booing his opponent.

The Jimmy Curran fisaco was a load of bollocks. I couldn't make out most of what that representative guy said into the mic, but I gather it was a money issue. Even if the fight had gone ahead, it would have been very unfair on the English lad who was left waiting in the ring, getting cold.

Despite all this, I really enjoyed the event as a whole and I thought all of the fighters gave it 100%. Well done to everyone invloved!

Kevin_rc_ie

did colm win?

breadmonkey

no, he lost by decision

Kevin_rc_ie

oh. ah well.

zencat

Well done to all those fighting in the event!!!

Jimmy Curran is an absolute disgrace to the Irish fans. The event was well organised and it was a shame to end the evening in such a farce.

Colm o'Reilly especially put on what my mates and I thought was the most entertaining fight of the evening, he showed grit and great overall ability. He has, no doubt, a bright future in this area of martial arts.

Silverfish

I thought it was abosolutely fantastic to see an event of this size and standard occur in Ireland, and despite not coming out on top, I think everyone involved did a brilliant job.

I was absolutley disgusted ( I sound like someone writing to the herald and signing it 'Angry from Donnybrook) by the booing the English fighters got - not to mention the coin throwing at the end at Rodney Moore...bit shoddy considering it was Jimmy Curran who decided for whatever reason not to fight in the end.

Why didn't Dave Roche compete? Hope it was nothing serious - will he fight in the next one?

cmb.

the production was fantastic - way above what i expected - though some of the delays in getting fighters out on cue could have been avoided - one fight taken off without mention or explanation shouldnt have happened - dont insult the fans - just have a pree show announcemet as to a fight being pulled - no big deal - the final fiasco was a discgrace - coulped with the friends/family/enyourage given free reign was so amateurish - and while im dissapointed not to have seen rodney moore mosty (yes - the fighter i was most looking forward to seeing) it didnt suprise me - having a king of the gipsy in your main event and having trouble - now mabey im jumpimg the gun - and i may be wrong on this but i was not supprised that something like this happened -

as for the crows - the idiots throeing sweets (and later coins) were idiots and i cant believe security didnt deal with this - everyone could see the idiots in the b - block throwing them

the crowd were lively and im not supprised at the booing of english team - typical irish ole ole brigade - but i was also expexting this -

most dont know what mma is - the idea of groundwork is alien to them - and without any idea of it it looks like two blokes hugging on the mat - esp with head shots on the ground illegal- this could have been dealt with in the opening - a video showing the likes of leglocks,ankle locks,keylocks front/rear noaked/triangle chokes etc so people without years of mat/video tape exposure could in some way appreciate the action - the fact is that a huge portion of the crowd were booing the event and wont be back even before the curran fiasco

the sad thing is that whoever people blame the damage done to mma and events under bushidoireland is imesurable - mma in ireland got ko'd last night

Kevin_rc_ie

mma in ireland got ko'd last night

that serious?

cmb.

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

that serious?

well - if the do put on another event as was suggested last night the paying public will bear out the facts

i presonally got 5 freinds to come along - paying 50 euro each and while in fairness they dont follow mma, but where quite open to the idea - i dont think i could get them to go if i paid them money - and i genuinely mean that

BrookieD

I was a photographer at this event on Saturday night and if interested in seeing my pic head to www.brooksphotography.tv and click on "portfolio", these will not be for sale to the public.

I also posted a notice about this in a different Martial Arts thread so this can be linked or moved by the mods if needs be.

Thanks

columok

I think everyone has nailed it with regards to the scumbags at the point.

I thought it was a great show. Pity the Jimmy Curran fight wasnt in the middle of the show so it could have ended with a fight!

Colm fought his guts at and basically fought a 2 round boxing match. Fair play! Some lovely shoots in round 1 aswell.

Mick did a trademark slam and beautiful guillotine. The crowd loved this guy!

Well done to everyone who fought. It takes guts to step up!

Frank Spencer

I was there on Saturday and just as a member of the general public a lay man. I had no prior knowledge of Bushido but felt increasingly misled the more and more the event went on.

As mentioned earlier the promos and even the video just before the event showed high kicks and lads getting their heads loosened with haymakers. There was little reference to the ground work to which we were "treated" to.

Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for what these guys do but the organisers did them no favours with the way it was portrayed as an event something similar to the UFC. People just went away feeling conned and I can't see the point being a viable option to hold a future Bushido event it just wouldn't get the numbers.

columok

To be honest I was hoping for more striking. Makes for better entertainment!

paddyc

sounds like some people need to learn thai


any one know of a good pad man ??

columok

sounds like some people need to learn thai

Well I hear that Remi has brilliant thai but his opponent kept taking him down before we got a chance to see it. Pity!

paddyc

was training with remy 2-3 times a wee doing some lovely work with him, he contributed to me getting a root canal and also pissing blood for a few days

Its great to have in the place cos he makes me traing harder to try keep up with him, didnt see the fight but i heard that he was taken down every time, which like you say is a shame but maybe next time he can go thai styling


paddy

Mikel

I think the guys that got in deserve a huge amount of credit, they have more dedication and more bottle than i could ever imagine having.
The venue did look excellent, the setting and atmosphere was pretty good.

But,
There were amendments to the card without any explanation,
the entrances had descended into amateur hour long before the end, fighters were taking several minutes to appear, this deflated a lot of the atmosphere.
Some of the fights were pretty poor. This is not intended to take away from the hard work or abilities of the fighters, but to be honest, if you are marketing an event as a fight night, it helps if you have some eventful fights.
Yes, i know, the average joe does not understand "groundwork" but there was little or none in the first fight, the guy got taken down, nothing happened for a while, they got stood up, takedown......rinse repeat.
I know there's more to it than that, but thats not how the crowd felt.

The Colm o'reilly fight was good, but with reservations, they both ran out of steam, especially colm, and his punches had nothing on them, i thought maybe there was something wrong that he gassed so quickly, did the cold affect him maybe?
Michael Leonard did excellent, cool slam.
Andy Ryan did not look fit to me, and he ran out of steam as well.

This is not an attempt to be unconstructive, but the conxersations i heard where i was sitting were 100% negative, none of those people will go again and there was genuine anger at the percieved rip off.
To be honest i find it hard to disagree with them, and i went with a positive attitude towards the whole thing.

In a nutshell,
fighters deserve all the credit in the world
if you pitch an event to low lifes, dont be surprised if they show up,
people who boo foreign athletes or throw objects are brain dead morons,
i won't be going to the next one

Roper

I would venture a guess that the vast majority of those shouting "we want our money back" at the end were only doing so because they didn't see the "ould enemy" getting a beating. The English fighters were superior on the night and deserved credit. The booing was moronic, but to be expected. There simply isn't the depth of understanding in Ireland for this game. For Colm's fight, whenever it went to clinch range, there was a bloke near me shouting "he's holding him ref!" I was sitting behind a bunch of ahem, lively lads, who booed everyone, including Oliver Ellis who was fighting the Lithuanian guy, shouted racist comments at Colms opponent, eventually during the wait for Jimmy, Rodney Moore turned around and glared at them from the ring, which shut them up somewhat. During the Ellis fight, one of his cornermen came over to them after a particularly obscene outburst and reminded them that their "Irishman" was Lithuanian, and why not cheer their neighbour? Couldn't have said it better myself.
I ended up sitting beside Clive from this board by sheer fluke (nice bloke, but he did accuse me of being Jummy Curran at the end!) and we talked about the recent UFC shows on Bravo perhaps contributing to the attendance, which was fantastic for an MMA show in Ireland. But I don't think many of them will be back for the next one. It might not be any harm either.

Aside from all that...
There were some great fighters on display. The Dutch lad really impressed me (he got booed too?) dominated in all ranges. I would really have liked to have seen Ellis fight Dave Roche, as he looked good too, fair play to the Lithuanian lad for taking that one at short notice. Mick Leonards slam was move of the night, he mustn't have been paid any overtime! The point is a great venue for this, but I reckon Ireland isn't ready for shows of this size yet as there simply isn't enough of an understanding of the sport yet.

John,
Is there a way anyone who wants too can send an apology to those English lads who got booed on behalf of any real sports fans here in Ireland? I thought it was a disgrace and as someone said above, typical of the Ole Ole crowd who come out of the woodwork for events like this. They conducted themselves really well in that atmosphere.

Silverfish

Buck_Naked wrote:

I was there on Saturday and just as a member of the general public a lay man. I had no prior knowledge of Bushido but felt increasingly misled the more and more the event went on.

As mentioned earlier the promos and even the video just before the event showed high kicks and lads getting their heads loosened with haymakers. There was little reference to the ground work to which we were "treated" to.

.

Okay...well.....you can't expect all fights to be scripted and follow exactly as advertised. This isn't WWE. Fights are fights, if you want spinning kicks and haymakers maybe consider checking out some scripted demonstrations or something,in real fights they either happen or they don't. I personally enjoyed every fight, Mick's being particularly impressive, not just because he won but because of that slam.

Fair enough if people who were there don't want to come back again, imo that will just weed out the types who went looking to see a "foigh'" but with no understanding of the sport itself. I'm reminded of people who go to car rallys for the crashes.

However, the people who WERE interested and did enjoy themselves will be back, and will recommend it to people who they know would enjoy it too.

Yeah, sorry for being a soppy girly but my heart did go out to the poor English guys.... still, nothing gets you in an agressive mood like being booed, it appears.

Roper

still, nothing gets you in an agressive mood like being booed, it appears.

LOL! I thought of that when they were coming out. "Way to get his blood up lads!"

cmb.

Mikel wrote:

This is not an attempt to be unconstructive, but the conxersations i heard where i was sitting were 100% negative, none of those people will go again and there was genuine anger at the percieved rip off.
To be honest i find it hard to disagree with them, and i went with a positive attitude towards the whole thing.

In a nutshell,
fighters deserve all the credit in the world
if you pitch an event to low lifes, dont be surprised if they show up,
people who boo foreign athletes or throw objects are brain dead morons,
i won't be going to the next one

i agree with many of your points - no it was not a rip off overall - i kniew exactly what it was going to be but the cancelled match and curran fiasco leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth and really ended the card on such a downer - and yes there were so many idiots going a long to see what they percieved as legalised street fights and while its was advertised as mma and not vale tudo, how many of these people knew what that meant - the amoubt of idiots around me with zub zero IOs was fightnening

if there is another event then a smaller venue with actual fans would be so much more enjoyable - people who want to be there

ps - i wonder how many tickets were complimentary/prize winners etc - less of these might improve the audience

but i have still to see a statement form bushidoireland regarding the situation - for their own sakes, a little damage control would be in their own interest

mostly though - win or loose, respect and admiration to ALL who steped in that ring on saturday

Mikel

if there is another event then a smaller venue with actual fans would be so much more enjoyable - people who want to be there

i would agree with that, maybe they were over reaching with this event, nothing wrong with ambition though. Someone else mentioned the rules, perhaps the guy on top doesn't have many options without punches.

I wasn't looking for WWE, i just felt many of the fights fell flat, sure it happens but when taken into account with several other things it adds up to a sub standard event. i should also have mentioned that i agree the English lads were all very good, especially considering the crowd reaction. But if you base the whole event on an Ireland vs England match up you cant be surprised when the celtic jersey wearing muppets show up. Nice to see the inferiority complex is still in place, but thats a whole other rant. Like someone else said, drunken ignorant idiots.

Just to be clear though, i wouldn't take anything away from the guys who got in, it must be hard breaking your neck in there and hearing the boos or comments of a know nothing crowd. Take it where you're appreciated would be my advice.

mark.leonard

I thought the production values of the show were off the hook and I can't wait for the next one. The fights were all fair matches and credit to the Irish guys for giving it all they had. Special props to Colm for fighting on despite having an empty tank in the second round, not many people would have been able to keep going when they were that tired and it impressed the hell out of me and my co-commentators! (Not to mention the regular fans I spoke to about the night as well).

I felt really bad for Andy Ryan, he looked like he had his opponent beaten in the skills department, but he was giving away so much weight (15 kilos) it really took it out of him. I am looking forward to seeing Andy back in the ring with someone closer to his own size. His opponent, Rob Broughton, was one of the soundest guys there however, I was chatting to him a couple of times during the night and he seemed like a really down to earth bloke. All the English guys I spoke to were extremely polite and good crack so it let us down in a big way when the Irish crowd was so hostile. I wasn't at all surprised by it though.

The Curran fiasco was a joke as well, but I think it was a poor choice for the last fight of the night; the promoter isn't from Ireland though and might not have been as clued in as he could have been. Still I can't wait for the next installment, and to that end I have come up with a wish list -

• Head Shots - I know the Point are being very pernickety and that was the reason there weren't any on this show, but hopefully we can get them included sooner rather than later

• More fights - 7 scheduled matches is a small card for the ticket price

• Showcase more Irish talent - although the Ireland vs. England theme probably sold the tickets, it meant that only half the card are Irish fighters that we need so desperately to promote. Some Irish vs. Irish matches, with possibly some storyline build up in the papers or local media might help sell those fights to the public instead.

• Turn on the heating in the point - I was freezing my nuts off!

Millionaire

Thats a disgrace people booing the UK fighters. I have fought in UK before and people were extremely nice, and treated us great, and that was 10 years ago when there was still a bit of aggro up in the north and all that crap.

Fair play for the men who got into the ring. that takes massive balls.

l3g3nd

I can't believe most of the stuff written in this thread. Please feel free anybody to correct me wherever I go wrong... This was promoted as a UFC styled tournament. Even the video sequences in the background at the start had the UFC fighters. Yet most tournaments run in clubs around the country have more contact than was seen in the bushido rings event.

These fighters were supposed to be professional, yet the standard of fitness for 95% of the fighters was shameful. It was like these guys had been picked randomly off the street and trained for a few days (if even).

Out of interest, how do this irish squad train.... Do they do any boxing? It was the sadest excuse at attempting to throw punches I have ever seen. The most exciting kick thrown was a front kick... So that leaves ground work... I have seen good grapplers who would leave me in awe. I have seen small guys easily take advantage over bigger fellas through better technique. However when two inexperienced grapplers meet, one gets into a good position and then fumbles to get a lock etc. It was the latter case which was prevalent at the bushido rings tournament.

I was accompanied at the tournament with other Martial Artists coming from different styles to me and none of us were impressed. The Jimmy Curran situation was just the icing on an already stale cake.

At an event like this it is of course unacceptable for any booing. I personally did not cheer even for the irish team which in itself speaks volumes. None of the irish team were at all ready to be representing our country. That is why we lost emphatically. This should have been advertised as a single club organising this and not be deemed to represent the standard of Martial Arts in Ireland. If this had been organised correctly, it would have been a great event as the profile of Martial Arts in Ireland badly needs to be raised.

columok

Hey l3g3nd welcome to the boards,

Even the video sequences in the background at the start had the UFC fighters.

They were fighters from Bushido Rings Lithuania actually!

These fighters were supposed to be professional, yet the standard of fitness for 95% of the fighters was shameful. It was like these guys had been picked randomly off the street and trained for a few days (if even).

A little unfair. I train with a lot of the guys and Ive seen the preparation that they put in. When you have a tough fight your cardio goes pretty fast (look at the Colm O'Reilly fight for an example). I thought that the cardio of most of the fighters wasnt really an issue actually. Any examples youd care to give???

It was the sadest excuse at attempting to throw punches I have ever seen. The most exciting kick thrown was a front kick...

Are you familiar with MMA boxing by any chance? It looks a lot different to regular boxing as the foot positioning and stance has to change due to kicks and watching the takedown! Even excellent MMA strikers can look very brawlerish! I was disappointed by the lack of standup action however so I can understand!

However when two inexperienced grapplers meet, one gets into a good position and then fumbles to get a lock etc. It was the latter case which was prevalent at the bushido rings tournament.

No offence but you really dont know what youre talking about. The guys up there were some of the best grapplers in Ireland. Do you train MMA or Sub Grappling?

What is YOUR training background?

l3g3nd

They were fighters from Bushido Rings Lithuania actually!

The Irish Bushido rings has a lot to do still to live up to the Lithuanian equivalent so!

A little unfair. I train with a lot of the guys and Ive seen the preparation that they put in. When you have a tough fight your cardio goes pretty fast (look at the Colm O'Reilly fight for an example). I thought that the cardio of most of the fighters wasnt really an issue actually. Any examples youd care to give???

I know people who would train 4-5 night a week, put in everything they have but be very wary before they would promote themselves as being good enough to represent the country. Without wanting to single out individual people, most of the guys at the Bushido Rings Tournament were burned out after 2 minutes. The final score on the night demonstrates the point in hand.

Are you familiar with MMA boxing by any chance? It looks a lot different to regular boxing as the foot positioning and stance has to change due to kicks and watching the takedown! Even excellent MMA strikers can look very brawlerish! I was disappointed by the lack of standup action however so I can understand!

I am aware MMA boxing can't be as 'clean' as traditional boxing for your reasons above. One of my main problems was there was no power behind punches. Punches were being landed and being walked through because there was nothing behind them. I had thought this was going to be the first Irish no holds barred - UFC, instead it seemed as though there was a deal made before hand that nobody would get hurt..

No offence but you really dont know what youre talking about. The guys up there were some of the best grapplers in Ireland. Do you train MMA or Sub Grappling?What is YOUR training background?

I have trained in different Martial Arts, all admittedly 'standup' Martial Arts. I have had limited Jiujutsu experience but enough to be aware of what a competant grappler can do. I find it very hard to believe this is the best of what ireland has to offer. Was this a mixture of Irelands best or just a single clubs fighters??

Also a small point but considering the amount of revenue brought in by this event could the 'squad' not have been uniformly dressed? Some people looked ready to head straight to the beach after!?

Colm_OReilly

Some people looked ready to head straight to the beach after!?

Dude, don't dis the shorts!

dlofnep

Everybody's going surfing
Surfing Ballymun!!

Haha

columok

The Irish Bushido rings has a lot to do still to live up to the Lithuanian equivalent so!

Well its a newer sport and it was the first event. Those were highlights from Lithuania not the calibre of every fight.

Without wanting to single out individual people, most of the guys at the Bushido Rings Tournament were burned out after 2 minutes. The final score on the night demonstrates the point in hand.

I disagree. Lets single out individual people so we can say what youre trying to say rather than linger in vagueness.

Fight 1- Remi didnt look tired. He's an incredible thai boxer. His opponent's game plan didnt allow him to show his hands,knees, shins.

Fight 2-Colm looked tired after a non-stop fight where nothing was going to his plan. His opponent (with all due respect to him) had a game plan of only neutralising Colm's takedown and this tires you fast. If youve ever fought MMA youd know this. When things dont go your way and your gameplan goes to hell you start getting tired quickly cause you arent relaxed. Colm's punching looked weak cause he was wrecked. BTW Colm is one of the best submission grapplers in Ireland and has titles to match it.

Fight 3-Mick didnt look tired though he was only out there for under a minute.

Fight 4- Andy fought a guy 15kg heavier than him. He didnt look tired at all from what I could see. Rob did very well to sub him.

Fight 5- John Donnelly was taken down. Shock. Horror. He's a fighter that tends to come out and destroy people and rarely ends up on his back. He fought an excellent dutch opponent who controlled him well. He didnt look tired but was uncomfortable on his back. John's cardio is very solid.

Fight 6- Tomas looked very game against an excellent Ollie Ellis. Looked fit, strong and ready to throw if it stayed standing

I had thought this was going to be the first Irish no holds barred - UFC, instead it seemed as though there was a deal made before hand that nobody would get hurt..

Youre looking for Cagewars or Ring of Truth then. These were special rules (mainly due to the Point not allowing headshots on the ground). I would have liked to see a lot more standup but I know that fewer MMA fighters wanna stay standing and risk getting knocked out.

I have trained in different Martial Arts, all admittedly 'standup' Martial Arts. I have had limited Jiujutsu experience but enough to be aware of what a competant grappler can do. I find it very hard to believe this is the best of what ireland has to offer. Was this a mixture of Irelands best or just a single clubs fighters??

What exactly have you trained? Ive trained Aikido, Karate and now Greco Roman Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA. If you dont have an understanding of MMA then I can understand your angst.

Also a small point but considering the amount of revenue brought in by this event could the 'squad' not have been uniformly dressed? Some people looked ready to head straight to the beach after!?

You really dont follow MMA do you? Board shorts are commonly worn by MMA fighters worldwide.

l3g3nd

Well its a newer sport and it was the first event. Those were highlights from Lithuania not the calibre of every fight.

Fair enough that they were a compacted version of the highlights. As you said before, with a lack of stand-up fighting, it might seem harder to impress.

Fight 2-Colm looked tired after a non-stop fight where nothing was going to his plan. His opponent (with all due respect to him) had a game plan of only neutralising Colm's takedown and this tires you fast. If youve ever fought MMA youd know this. When things dont go your way and your gameplan goes to hell you start getting tired quickly cause you arent relaxed. Colm's punching looked weak cause he was wrecked. BTW Colm is one of the best submission grapplers in Ireland and has titles to match it.

A good fighter won't have a single 'style' of fighting. If one thing doesn't work out, they won't keep at it, they'll change. We are agreed though that he was wrecked.

Fight 3-Mick didnt look tired though he was only out there for under a minute.

It happens!

Fight 4- Andy fought a guy 15kg heavier than him. He didnt look tired at all from what I could see. Rob did very well to sub him.

Why did this happen? Weight categories should be a lot closer than this? That was a problem in the organising... not to be used as an excuse after.

Youre looking for Cagewars or Ring of Truth then. These were special rules (mainly due to the Point not allowing headshots on the ground). I would have liked to see a lot more standup but I know that fewer MMA fighters wanna stay standing and risk getting knocked out.

That is not what a lot of the people who paid between E30-E50 were expecting to see. It sounds like there were pages of small print we didn't get to see. Terms and conditions apply. Offer ends April 31st. Always read the label carfully!

columok

A good fighter won't have a single 'style' of fighting. If one thing doesn't work out, they won't keep at it, they'll change. We are agreed though that he was wrecked.

Yeah but to be a good fighter you have to focus on one or two areas of standup, clinch and ground. some days you just cant execute your gameplan. Happens to the best in the business.

Quote:
Fight 3-Mick didnt look tired though he was only out there for under a minute.


It happens!

No Mick beat his opponent in under a minute. the crowd loved it as far as I can tell. He has solid cardio but it just didnt get tested!

Why did this happen? Weight categories should be a lot closer than this? That was a problem in the organising... not to be used as an excuse after.

Agreed but its a worldwide problem with the heavy weight category and not unique to this event.

That is not what a lot of the people who paid between E30-E50 were expecting to see. It sounds like there were pages of small print we didn't get to see. Terms and conditions apply. Offer ends April 31st. Always read the label carfully!

Fights can go either way. There were some amazing strikers at the point that night. I was dissapppointed we didnt get to see them display that area of their games but fights can be like that.

celt2005

Quote:
No offence but you really dont know what youre talking about. The guys up there were some of the best grapplers in Ireland. Do you train MMA or Sub Grappling?What is YOUR training background?


As its seems to enter this string , you need to give a CV, have trained in Martial Arts for 20 + years, was a boxer before that , and have fought semi and full contact in Europe and America.

I do not believe l3g3nd cred are needed to make what were very valid and courageous points , on what overall was a disapointing night for Irish MMA.

The comments I make I hope will be taken in the constructive manner I am making them , and lead to a broad contructive look at how these fighters can become better conditioned fighters.

I fully agree with l3g3nd first mail, I went to see good high quality fights, and would not denegrate the Irish fighters bottle, but believe they overtrained for the event.

The responsibility for this must lie at the door of SBGIreland. What type of Nutrition/Supplements/Diets did they fighters use before the biggest event in the Irish MMA calendar to date ??, How was the fighters strength training cycled ??? It is obvious by the Fighters early burn out rate , they had not rested during training enough, and need to re evaluate their training schedules pre - tourney.

SBGIreland lead fighter on the night was supposed to be Dave Roche, he was injured a week before, why was he fighting before such a big event in the Irish Calendar !!! , why was John Kavanagh not on the bill, this was a showcase for the best Irish talent.

All in all , disapointed by the Nights content.

Would like to add my condolences to family / friends on the Death of Jimmy Curran.

columok

Celt,

Ive no problem with informed opinion or even general observations but I dont like hearing things like

These fighters were supposed to be professional, yet the standard of fitness for 95% of the fighters was shameful. It was like these guys had been picked randomly off the street and trained for a few days (if even).

It was the sadest excuse at attempting to throw punches I have ever seen. The most exciting kick thrown was a front kick... So that leaves ground work...

I have seen good grapplers who would leave me in awe. I have seen small guys easily take advantage over bigger fellas through better technique. However when two inexperienced grapplers meet, one gets into a good position and then fumbles to get a lock etc. It was the latter case which was prevalent at the bushido rings tournament

I have had limited Jiujutsu experience but enough to be aware of what a competant grappler can do. I find it very hard to believe this is the best of what ireland has to offer.

Its blatantly untrue. Again to present uninformed opinion as fact...?

And celt I agree with or at least understand most of your points!

Colum

l3g3nd

I think the final score on the night shows that there is some truth to my points. In six fights, an average squad would win three, an unlucky squad would win two.... We won one. Hmmmm.

dlofnep

What's this we business? Did you fight?

People like you annoy the **** out of me. Did you just sign up here to downplay the lad's performance.. Think you can do any better? Enter in amatuer Irish MMA league and see how poor the guys are.

Roper

Lads,
l3g3nd has come on here to make his point. Before you dive on him, remember that this was a PUBLIC event that people paid to see. Out of the thousands there, how many do you think fight MMA? To be a fight fan, you don't have to be a fighter, if that were so this would be a pretty insular sport.

I agree that the irish fighters will probably go away from this one dissappointed, but remember that MMA in the UK has a good head start on Ireland due to the high quality promotions on offer there (Cage rage/Warriors) and hence the standard is bound to be higher for the moment. That an event of this size was on at all was a surprise to many. This is a growing sport and fans should be allowed te opportunity to criticize without people coming on here and taking it as a personal insult.

For my money, things are on the up in any case and I wouldn't agree with some of the sentimnets regarding damage done to MMA in Ireland. There are good shows and bad shows, fighting is unpredictable, and any promotion with the ambition of this one has to be praised for that at least.

To borrow Colms sign off,
Peace!

dlofnep

It's very easy to criticise something you have no knowledge about. Instead of mouthing off, it would of been more contructive to ask questions before making bold statements. Just my opinion

dent

Didn't get to go to the event and I would have liked to. I read a review of it here http://www.wrestling101.com/101/article/JoeR/598/ and spoke to a few people who did go and from what i gather from this the lads all seemed to be fit enough. Seems the organisation of the event let the side down. But I guess things can only get better and I look forward to the next event.

Would be nice if they allowed head shots on the ground! Does anyone think this is going to happen?

columok

Roper,

Things that are valid to say if you're critising Bushido Rings. These arent my opinions.:

-Didnt enjoy the event.

-The fights were poorly matched

-There wasnt enough standup

-There was too much laying on the ground and manhugging

-The fighters didnt fight well

-The fighting styles on show werent entertaining


Things that are unfair to say:

-The guys had no skill

-The guys couldnt grapple

-The guys couldnt strike

-The guys are akin to random bums off the street

-The guys didnt take the event seriously


See my point?

Colum

l3g3nd

Before I came onto this board everbody was standing around in a big circle patting each other on the back. There is no point people whinging about it behind ye're backs and ye not hearing it. I am just ruffling feathers.

dlofnep wrote:

What's this we business? Did you fight?

This brings me back to my other point...Even if I did fight these rules, I wouldn't have been allowed because this was a closed, single club taking on another club in England. It was promoted as a cross section of Irelands best.

pma-ire

columok wrote:

Roper,

Things that are valid to say if you're critising Bushido Rings. These arent my opinions.:

-Didnt enjoy the event.

-The fights were poorly matched

-There wasnt enough standup

-There was too much laying on the ground and manhugging

-The fighters didnt fight well

-The fighting styles on show werent entertaining


Things that are unfair to say:

-The guys had no skill

-The guys couldnt grapple

-The guys couldnt strike

-The guys are akin to random bums off the street

-The guys didnt take the event seriously


See my point?

Colum

Colum man!

Thats gonna happen when you push the events out into the wider public. They will both love it and loath it. And as with anything in the public domain "the gloves are off" (pardon the pun ) so some folk will make personal comments on individuals that may not be nice.

Theres no point in getting mad about it back to them. You all should learn from these comments and try to address them for the next big promotion.

Something I noticed watching the new UFC's in Bravo, was that the crowd booed any fights that had too much ground going nowhere (as far as they were concerned) and the commentators slated the crowd that the organisers had no problem with taking there money at the door.

Welcome to public life

columok

Pma,

personally I dont mind the ground game in MMA but I really prefer to see harsh KOs and lovely standup. I think the way to go is to give hefty KO bonuses. Means fighters are more willing to trade.

Anyway I reckon if youre gonna be pissed off, under the guise of knowing what youre talking about, then at least be pissed off at the right people. The promoters and not the fighters determine the majority of the entertainment on show- unless we're talking about genki here!

l3g3nd,

SBG are the most dominant club in Ireland and consistently produce the highest quality fighters. It was a Country Vs. Country card as are continually used in promotions all over the world from Pride FC to this one. This doesnt mean its a national squad. Its a bunch of Irish fighters fighting a bunch of english fighters. These were the best fighters in Ireland (bar one or two injuries + cancellations). The MMA scene is young.

pma-ire

columok wrote:

Pma,

personally I dont mind the ground game in MMA but I really prefer to see harsh KOs and lovely standup. I think the way to go is to give hefty KO bonuses. Means fighters are more willing to trade.

Anyway I reckon if youre gonna be pissed off, under the guise of knowing what youre talking about, then at least be pissed off at the right people. The promoters and not the fighters determine the majority of the entertainment on show- unless we're talking about genki here!

I was'int knocking the style! Do love watching ground fighting (all fighting)! It's just Joe Public or some Martial Artists (be they fighters or not) don't!

Thats life and you can't hammer folk into submission! (oops another pun)

columok

I was'int knocking the style! Do love watching ground fighting (all fighting)! It's just Joe Public or some Martial Artists (be they fighters or not) don't!

I know you werent knocking it. Just being honest that I myself like a lot of the people like to see more standup in MMA so I can understand their annoyance at a heavy grappling filled event!

I just think they should admit that MMA isnt their thing (cause it does have a LOT of grappling) and not knock something they dont understand.

Mikel

Things that are valid to say if you're critising Bushido Rings.

and who are you to decide what is "valid"

If someone attends a public event, and pays through the nose for the experience, they are entitled to criticise.
Like wise you are entitled not to like it.

What's this we business? Did you fight?

is this a prerequisite, can i not comment on a football match unless i am a pro footballer?

Andy fought a guy 15kg heavier than him. He didnt look tired at all from what I could see

i disagree, he looked very tired.

On the issue of tiredness, two guys behind me had this conversation

"that Irish (C O'reilly) guy cant punch, he's crap"
"ah but he's bolloxed"
"well he shouldn't be"
"that stuff is hard on your fitness, you wouldnt last 10 seconds in there"
"yeah but thats their game"

and i think thats a fair point, its no good turning around after and saying its tough on your cardio, isnt that what training is for?

I understand people getting defensive, their mates were in there and gave it everything, still this is all just opinion.
Positive comments are taken with no requests for CVs or fighting experience.

dent

columok wrote:

These were the best fighters in Ireland (bar one or two injuries + cancellations). The MMA scene is young.

I would have thought John Kavanagh was surely one of the best fighters in Ireland. Was he part of the line up at some stage?

columok

Mikel,

and who are you to decide what is "valid"

Valid being logical. Valid being legitimate. To post uninformed opinion as fact is unfair. The difference between saying David Beckham cannot play football and David Beckham played a crap match is very clear. It was being said that the lads were poor grapplers, a blatant falsehood.

Sure people can say what they like but theyre posting on a discussion board and therefore should try to refrain angry ranting and at least engage in some kind of structured, non-fallacious arguments. Otherwise the discussion goes nowhere!

i disagree, he looked very tired.

Big lads normally do look sluggish though. I think he didnt look tired but he looked like maybe he hadnt psychologically stepped up a gear. I dunno.


Dent,

John would be better qualified to answer but AFAIK he's only competing in Sub grappling at the moment and is focussing on coaching!

l3g3nd

culumok wrote:

Valid being logical. Valid being legitimate. To post uninformed opinion as fact is unfair. The difference between saying David Beckham cannot play football and David Beckham played a crap match is very clear. It was being said that the lads were poor grapplers, a blatant falsehood.

At no stage did i announce my opinions as fact. Similarly, I could say the exact same to you.

culumok wrote:

SBG are the most dominant club in Ireland and consistently produce the highest quality fighters.

Seeing as you are big into only talking facts, is this a fact :-? Is there not other clubs around Dublin/Leinster with equally good/better ground fighters than SGB.

culumok wrote:

These were the best fighters in Ireland (bar one or two injuries + cancellations).

Is this another fact??

I know for a fact (and this is a fact that you can quote back to me), unless myself and Mikel were sitting near each other there were alot of conversations similar to what he overheard

Mikel wrote:

"that Irish (C O'reilly) guy cant punch, he's crap"
"ah but he's bolloxed"
"well he shouldn't be"
"that stuff is hard on your fitness, you wouldnt last 10 seconds in there"
"yeah but thats their game"

As I said before, I heard similar comments from boxers, other MA and MMA fighters.

Considering ye are already the "best fighters in Ireland" in ground fighting presumably?!, ye could all hugely improve your game in the stand up fighting. To pre-empt your next point, I didn't get to see ye're standard of stand-up fighting - true. It was a common believe in the group I was with on the night that anyone with good standup fighting skills would have excelled over their opponent. There were alot of opportunities missed where someone who was better with his hands or feet would have done damage. I'm sick of saying anything I say is my opinion so you can take that as the case from now on.