Modifying a passport photocopy

HarryD

I couldn't find an appropiate board to post this to..

Last year I had to scan my passport and modify it,
so my friend could give ms his glastonbury tickets.
(The tickets were non transferrable as an anti-touting measure)
Anyway I changed the name, DOB, pp num..etc

I've held onto the copy in my wallet.
I've showed it to a few friends since who were shocked
at it, saying I'm breaking the law, and could be put away.
However it's not an official document, so modifying
it is not against the law AFAIK.
If the cops or immigration found it on me, I guess it would
take some explaining, but can I be punished for it ?

R

PS; I'm not interested in listening to the morals about the modification.
I know what I've done, I just want to hear about the legal stance.

damnyanks

If it has served its purpose get rid of it. The only reason you would continue to keep it is to pretend to be someone else.

Not sure of the legality of it but sounds pretty dodgy.

seamus

It would be a form of fraud. Why would you carry a modified passport photocopy, if not to commit fraud?

I'm sure they'd find something to charge you with.

Neuro

It's not illegal but if discovered you'll certainly garner a lot more interest from Mr. John Q Law. He may even ask you to speak to his friend, Rip Van Sphincter!

It's similar to carrying fraudulent banknotes. To possess them is not illegal, attempting to pass them off as real is.

Evil Phil

I often carry a photocopy of my passport when travelling, just in case my actual passport gets lost. It can be handy for travelling until a replacement arrives. As such I don't know if modifying the photocopy is illegal but in these paranoid times I'd be reluctant to give port authorities any reason to question me.

Zombrex

I don't know if simply having a forged document is a crime, or having a copy of a forged document. It might only be illegal when you try to use it in a fraud. I suppose the Guards could charge you with conspiricy to commit a crime if they believe that you were going to us it to commit crime.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a persons Passport actually belongs to the State, so I suppose the government could object to you copying it even if you were not going to use that copy for a crime.

I think it is illegal to make a copy of money even if you don't plan to use the money as counterfit, so the same principle might hold for a faked passport copy.

Nevyn

you dont own your passport it belongs to the department of forigein affairs and
to alter it or state it altered or to alter a photocopy is an offense.
You could be fine and have it removed and it is with in thier remit to refuse you
a passport in the future.

HarryD

Thaed wrote:

to alter a photocopy is an offense.

This is what I'm wondering..
Anything to back this up ?


BTW: I've got rid of it since

seamus

HarryD wrote:

This is what I'm wondering..
Anything to back this up ?

Actually, what Thaed says now rings bells. Somewhere on the passport it says that to alter the passport or "utter it so altered" is a criminal offence. A faked copy would be to "utter it altered".

Mikros

maybe under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

where it states

A person is guilty of forgery if he or she makes a false instrument with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, to the prejudice of that person or any other person.

and as regards copying a passport:

A person who uses a copy of an instrument which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a false instrument with the intention of inducing another person to accept it as a copy of a genuine instrument and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, or to provide some service, to the prejudice of that person or another person is guilty of an offence.

where

"instrument" means any document, whether of a formal or informal character

Which would include passports

Zombrex

It does say "with intent"

I think what the OP was wondering is, is the copying a crime in of itself, or only if you plan to use it to commit a crime? (ie fraud)

Mikros

Wicknight wrote:

It does say "with intent"

I think what the OP was wondering is, is the copying a crime in of itself, or only if you plan to use it to commit a crime? (ie fraud)

Well I guess they would have to prove intent in the cases above. But if you were caught having a faked copy in your pocket I cant imagine how you come up with any honourable intentions. By even having it on you it could be argued that you were intending to defraud someone.

rubadub

Bring back hanging! to think the gardai are out chasing murderers and kiddie fiddlers when demons like you are out there!

I altered a girls passport once to be over 18, she forgot all about it and a few years on sent it into the US embassy for a visa, got the US visa with the fake DOB printed on it too! she was able to drink in the US as by that time it was saying she was 21.

Zombrex

rubadub wrote:

I altered a girls passport once to be over 18, she forgot all about it and a few years on sent it into the US embassy for a visa, got the US visa with the fake DOB printed on it too! she was able to drink in the US as by that time it was saying she was 21.

Ok now that is a serious serious crime, you friend was lucky not to land up in jail, especially if this was after 9-11. Not i good idea :eek:

Fysh

While I'm of the general opinion that having tampered-with official documents or copies thereof about your person is generally a bad idea, I'm inclined to think that this may not be as serious as presented. The intent could still be argued, possibly quite strongly (after all, there are no legitimate uses for such documents - even the original use is not legally legitimate, as it was used to circumvent a sales contract's terms), but...in my experience, anything useful you can do with a copy of a passport requires it to be stamped and signed by some form of authority (police station, bank official, or oddly enough, a doctor) who were legally bound to confirm that the copy and the original contained the same information.

Of course, that's not much of a defence, really (especially since the only times I've ever had to do this were when I was living in Spain, so I'm not sure whether this applies over here).

I say ditch the forgery and for God's sake, if you are going to use one, don't post about it on an internet messageboard from a home computer! If necessary, it wouldn't be particularly hard to link these posts on boards.ie to your computer, thereby incriminating you and potentially providing the intent for the gardai, should they improbably choose to pursue you for this...

oscarBravo

HarryD wrote:

Last year I had to scan my passport and modify it,
so my friend could give ms his glastonbury tickets.

the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001 wrote:

A person who uses a copy of an instrument which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a false instrument with the intention of inducing another person to accept it as a copy of a genuine instrument and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, or to provide some service, to the prejudice of that person or another person is guilty of an offence.

Seems to me you're already guilty of a criminal offence.