What scope to buy?

Orion

Hi there,

I'm thinking of getting a telescope next month so I'm looking for advice. I'd only be classed as an interested amateur ... fed up using a binoculars . My budget will be in or around €1000 (give or take 20%). I'd like to buy a decent scope for that price which include GoTo (or the equivalent). I'm not really looking for a basic starter scope that I'll want to replace in a year or two for something better. I've had an interest for a long time but couldn't afford the outlay. I can now so I may as well get the best I can afford

So I'm looking for recommendations from people who know about these things:

Make: I'm leaning towards Celestron (based on brand recognition )
Type: Schmidt-Cassegrain are the best I'm told but expensive. What other types are good?
Model: Not sure here at all - the NexStar 4GT looks like a good one but like I said - I'm new to this.
Vendor: www.astronomy.ie (not the best prices but local) / www.telescopes.com (they ship to Ireland - prices reasonable) / any others?
Accessories: What else do I need to get - eyepieces / calibration tools?
AOB: What else should I be asking?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Steve

redman

I also am looking for a new telescope, thinking of the Celestron 130GT but there looks like new ones in the US on www.celeston.com called SLT's.

Any recommendations. I also have used binoculars that I got from Astronomy Ireland in Artane. Want something that will show Jupiter and Mars well and also let me see some Galaxy and Nebula?
What about the dobsons? Does anyone really use the GOTO feature?
Also keen to able to adapt to take pictures from it later.

Budget up to €1000 but ideally a lot less.

Thanks in Advance.

Redman

albertw

Macros42 wrote:

Make: I'm leaning towards Celestron (based on brand recognition )

If you want to go by Brand, I would go something like: Takahashi, Intes, Meade, Skywatcher, Celestron in that order. So don't go by brand or price :-)

Type: Schmidt-Cassegrain are the best I'm told but expensive. What other types are good?

I'm getting suspicious about who you were talking to :-)
Take a look at Dave Lillis page with Shannonside Astronomy Club http://www.geocities.com/shannonsideac/choose.htm That compares the types quite well so I wont dewll on comparisons much here.

There literally are books written on this. And many posts here and on the IFAS and Clubs sites about it.
It comes down to what do you want to do.

Do you want to do photography? Do you really want to do photography? No seriously, are you really on your first telescope going to be serious astrophotography? You do realise that you will spend another couple of grand on photography bits and have to drive to darkest Roscommon to do good imaging? - Basically we all like looking at pretty astronomy pictures, but they are very expensive to create. Basic shot of say the Orion nebula can be done with a basic tracking mount and a regular camera, but anything over 30 seconds exposure will really need a very accurate mount, which alone would cost over a grand. Planetary imaging can be done with a webcam and basic tracking (ok it can be done without any tracking, but sounds tedious and I've never tried!)
So if you rule out serious astrophotography you can rule out the medium->high end tracking mounts.

Next. GOTO. Do you want to enjoy learning your way around the sky or do you just want to hit a keypad and be brought to the objects you want to look at? There are merits to both, but to someone with their first telescope you might want to go with the "find your own way" approach. The money you save by not getting the GOTO unit will allow you to purchase a better telescope. Those who know me here will know that I neglected that bit of advice, and got a 10" scope with goto as my first scope, but many years were spend with binoculars before that and there were other reasons I went for the scope I did so I dont feel guilty! So I guess I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a goto, just that you should see how much you are paying for it and see what else you can get for the money.

Portability: Do you have somewhere to put an up to 2m long, up to 12" wide tube? And the mount, counterweights etc. that go with it? Are you capable and willing to to put this in a car and drive away from light pollution if needed? There is an saying that the best telescope is the one you use the most, so there is no point in having a cool 12" GOTO ubermounted telescope, if you really couldnt be bothered setting it up regularly. SCT's Mak's and SN's typically have large enought mounts, whereas the Dubsonian, which although it looks bigger does not have a bulky mount to accompany it.

For a first scope I dont think you can go far wrong with say an 8" or 10" dobsonian. You loose the motors and goto, but you get great ease of use and the best value for money in terms of light-gethering-power-per-euro. You will hear plenty of other opinions, so you just have to read up on things and talk to people and see whats right for you.

Model: Not sure here at all - the NexStar 4GT looks like a good one but like I said - I'm new to this.

You really need to decide on the question above first. Personally I think the 4GT is overpriced for what it is, a fairly small Mak, overloaded with goto gismology. From A&S this costs EUR1263, I got my ungoto'd 4"Mak[1] for less than half of that, basic motors for tracking can be got fairly cheaply. Talk your requirements over with vendors and see what they have to offer.

Vendor: www.astronomy.ie (not the best prices but local) / www.telescopes.com (they ship to Ireland - prices reasonable) / any others?

<Must answer without getting banned from the group> :-)
I shal polietly refer the poster to Andromeda Optics (www.andromedaoptics.com) and North Down Telescopes (http://www.mccreaa.freeserve.co.uk/). Then compare service, quality, range, and of course price with any other vendor. They obviously ship to Ireland and between them can get just about anything.
Greenwich Astronomy in the UK www.greenwich-observatory.co.uk, are also great to deal with and ship to Ireland.
Shipping from the US is complicated...

Accessories: What else do I need to get - eyepieces / calibration tools?

Eyepieces: Yes, depending on what you get with the scope and how much you want to spend. Try to get a good spread of decent eyepieces. 4 or 5 in the range from 30mm to 5mm. A Barlow lens may also be worth the investment. The second hand market might be your best bet here, though ask the vendor, and your local club, or ask here or on the IFAS board for advice and opinion.
Calibration is best done with the eye really. I have a laser collimator and ronchi tester for example, but they are luxuries. Collimation can be done very accurately with your eye, and perhaps the help of a 35mm film cannister!
You probably will decide that you want a webcam, if so budget another EUR100 for the TouCam Pro. Software is free.

AOB: What else should I be asking?

You seem to be asking the right questions. What I would very seriously advise before purchasing is to try out scopes with people from a local astronomy club. www.irishastronomy.org has a list. Also if you can make it to the COSMOS 2005 Star Party in a few weeks in Tullamore you can chat to some vendors and more importantly talk about and use (weather permittig) scopes that other people have.

[1]http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/MAK102EQ2.html

Cheers,
~Al
--
www.southdublinastronomy.org

albertw

redman wrote:

I also am looking for a new telescope, thinking of the Celestron 130GT but there looks like new ones in the US on www.celeston.com called SLT's.

The SLT is, afaik, just another incarnation of Celestrons "one armed" GOTO mounts. So yes they are newer, but I havent heard any reviews, good or bad. cloudynights.com is usually a good place to go to sort out manufacturer waffle from useful technology.

Any recommendations. I also have used binoculars that I got from Astronomy Ireland in Artane. Want something that will show Jupiter and Mars well and also let me see some Galaxy and Nebula?
What about the dobsons? Does anyone really use the GOTO feature?
Also keen to able to adapt to take pictures from it later.
Budget up to €1000 but ideally a lot less.

Dobsonians can only be used to take planetary images with webcams, and even that I imagine would be a little tedious. To do any photography you will need a equatorial mount that can track (or be hand guided for the patient... ok or an alt-az mount on a wedge for those that really want goto's!). That doesnt't mean goto though, a basic motor driven equatorial mount will do. Getting into astrophotography is a very expensive business, the cheap way at the moment is with the Canon300D digital SLR, that alone is nearly EUR1000, accurate mounts that can track for over 30 seconds are going to be as much again. You need to decide how seriously you want to weight that photogrpahy requirement, against the amount of stuff you want to see.

For example. And I'll use A&S prices...
They have a 6.25" Dobsonian for EUR 663. For that money, from the same vendor, you'll get a NexStar 60GT (EUR 698) which has goto. Granted its a refractor, but it gathers much much less light than the dob. These are the types of things you need to weigh up. By contrast again a 60mm scope on an EQ mount without goto Firstscope 60AZ costs € 252.

Many of these scopes will be available cheaper elsewhere, but I used A&S prices just to show the contrast with what you are getting for your euro.

If your budget was to stretch over the 1000 euro mark, then looking at the Meade LX90's or Celestron9.25's stars becoming realistic. But for economy you cant go too far wrong with dobsonians. But as I said in another post, vist your club, go to starparties (cue plug for COSMOS again!) and try to get a feel for what you want and can really afford!

Cheers,
~Al

redman

Albert

Thanks for that concise and excellent advice, I have more homework to do.
But on review I think I will forget about astro photography for the mo and not work about Goto and pick something that simply gives me the best image for buck from a Dublin Suburb! Plus I'll learn the sky layout better with a little help with some PC software.

Thus I think Dobson is the route but will investigate further and I will look out to see who has what around. I would prefer to buy in Ireland from a warranty perspective.

Many Thanks

Redman

Orion

snipped where appropriate ...

albertw wrote:

Do you want to do photography? Do you really want to do photography? No seriously, are you really on your first telescope going to be serious astrophotography? You do realise that you will spend another couple of grand on photography bits and have to drive to darkest Roscommon to do good imaging?

I'd love to but I knew that it was out of my price range anyway. Certainly on my first venture. If I get one with a camera mounting it will be for future use rather than immediate.

Next. GOTO. Do you want to enjoy learning your way around the sky or do you just want to hit a keypad and be brought to the objects you want to look at? ... So I guess I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a goto, just that you should see how much you are paying for it and see what else you can get for the money.

Both . I can find my way around a star map. The goto is really just for convenience. I'll take your comments on board though before I make my purchasing decision.

Portability: Do you have somewhere to put an up to 2m long, up to 12" wide tube? And the mount, counterweights etc. that go with it? Are you capable and willing to to put this in a car and drive away from light pollution if needed?

Hadn't thought of that. Worth bearing in mind as well. Thanks.

From A&S this costs EUR1263,

But in the shop there's up to 40% off. The website prices are not accurate.

You seem to be asking the right questions. What I would very seriously advise before purchasing is to try out scopes with people from a local astronomy club. www.irishastronomy.org has a list. Also if you can make it to the COSMOS 2005 Star Party in a few weeks in Tullamore

I had planned on doing something like that anyway. Don't think I can make the Tullamore event but I'll see when the next event is on in the Phoenix Park.

Thanks for the very detailed response. You've given me a lot to think about. And to think I thought this would be easy . It's a big purchase so I want to make sure I'm making the right choice.

albertw

Macros42 wrote:

But in the shop there's up to 40% off. The website prices are not accurate.

According to the website that ended on January 31st? Anyway the "sale" prices are just the reccomended retail prices. But like I said, shop around and haggle for the best deal you can get!

I would prefer to buy in Ireland from a warranty perspective.

Thats the big problem with ordering from the US. I've bought a large scope from the UK and had no problems with warranty for the one thing I did need replaced after some time. Service and warranty conditions are something to bring up with the dealers too. A lot of teething problems can be quickly sorted out by chatting to people in clubs[1].

Cheers,
~Al
--
www.irishastronomy.org
[1] http://www.irishastronomy.org/ifas/members.php

albertw

Macros42 wrote:

I'd love to but I knew that it was out of my price range anyway. Certainly on my first venture. If I get one with a camera mounting it will be for future use rather than immediate.

This is one of these days where I am waiting for some code to finish, so I might as well chime in yet again here :-)

Camera mountings for scopes come in many and varied ways. For SLR's you typically can get T-mount adaptors to connect the camera directly to the scope without an eyepiece. This effectivly gives your camera a lens with the focal legth of your telescope. Most of the serious astrophotography is done this way.

You can also use eyepiece projection. This is basically holding a digital camera up to the eyepiece and taking a picture. Several suppliers (scoptronics in the US is one) that sells adapters to couple the eyepiece and camera together. This methods works even with regular compact type digital cameras.

Lastly there is piggy back mounting, where you bolt your camera onto the scope. This is used for taking wide field constellation type shots, but will an exposure of a couple of minutes so you dont have star trails.

For theses options you will need a mount that has some motorised capability.

Most of the software for processing images is available free.

Webcams are in a different category. Dave Gradwell has just posted up an image of Saturn he has taken recently at http://www.irishastronomy.org/boards/viewtopic.php?p=10065 . He is using a high end scope here, but the imaging was done with a EUR100 webcam and free software.

Cheers,
~Al

redman

Hi All

Focusing on a 8" or larger Dobson but might stretch to an 8" SCT if the price was right.

Has anyone ever bought from:
http://www.telescope-service.com/
They ship to Ireland from Germany.

I have ruled out buying from U.S. due to Duty/Vat and delivery costs etc...
also want a warranty of some form.

The telescope shop in Dublin are discontinuing their dobson range. They also have a Celestron 8" SCT on a HD mount for €1,995.
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/ are about the same price without shipping.
I have tried the other links provided earlier but there doesn't appear much choice.

Thanks

Redman

Orion

redman - I've found a few places (most suggested on irishastronomy.org)

www.collegecameras.co.uk - good prices but out of stock atm
http://www.greenwich-observatory.co.uk - good prices as well, shipping about £50 to Ireland.
http://www.andromedaoptics.com/ - based in Dublin
North Down Optics (I think - don't have the linky with me)

redman

Thanks Macros42, I had no luck in getting to speak to andromedaoptics, but I got a great response from North Down Telescopes and a nice big Dobson is on its way to me

Cheers

Redman

Orion

What one did you buy?

redman

The Skywatcher Skyliner-250PX 10" Dobson.

Looking forward to using it!

Orion

Nice - how much was it?

redman

around ST£500

Tea drinker

Wow, that's a nice scope, did you get it yet? did you? did you?
Bet it's not as good as my tasco 114 though....
On another note, my bro bought a GSO 10" dob from telescope-service, I would say it's ok / a bit mediocre, you probably made the right choice.
They are cheaper for sure though.

Cheers,
Martin

Orion

Got my Skywatcher 200 on EQ5 on Thursday from Andy McCrea. Very helpful guy - I'd have no hesitation recommending him to anyone else.

redman

HI Tea Drinker

I have received and assembled it. Sturdier than expected but unfortunately I haven't got to use it yet due to clouds and a cold!

Will let you know how i get on.

I second Macros42 on his comments about Andy, no nonsense good open advice at the right price! Very quick delivery and great after sales service to date.

Redman

redman

Well what a night, the moon was bright but I still got to see Saturn and Jupiter in more detail than I have ever seen before! Of course the detail on the moon was spectacular.

Looking forward to a less moonlit night so I can scour for the galaxies etc...

Really happy with the Dob, much quicker to twirl around than the goto I had for while, but of course you need to constantly manually move it all the time.

Well recommended

My thanks to all the advice received, especially to albertw and Andy McCrea of North Down telescopes.

Macros42 - how are you getting on?

Redman

Orion

Only had it out the once so far. Managed to see Jupiter and 4 moons. Looking forward to taking it out more once the weather improves

Orion

Was just re-reading this and thought I'd bump it to see how redman's getting on. I love the scope I got. Now that the nights are getting longer I'm looking forward to taking it out at more reasonable hours

Stuck dual-axis motors on it last weekend and bought a Toucam Pro II (€60 in PC World). Just ordered a 3x Barlow from Andromeda and ordering a UV/IR filter and eyepiece adapter for the camera from Andy. Gonna give this astro-photography a try the cheap way

redman

Getting on really well with my 10" Dob, very happy compared to the Celestron 114 goto that I had beforehand. Will put it on an Eq Mount when the funds allow and then to motorise. Recently got a Camera mount from Andy but yet to try properly.

I finding the scanning of planets not too bad, takes a little knack with the right tension and of course the right maginifcation.

Very pleased with views of Mars I have gotten lately.

Also brought it to a StarBBQ in the early summer and those who looked through it were raving about it. Saw three beautiful galaxies that night in Roundwood. But regularly get to see some in my suburban garden. The moon is fantastic.

I am using eyepieces and filters from a Celeston Kit that seem to be doing the job.