Red Cow Tourney Tomorrow

Happy Camper

Anyone have any info on this tournament? Registration times, starting stacks, etc...

Thanks,

Mike.

Canaboid

Details here http://www.pokerevents.ie/

Registration is 7pm. Starting stacks are 4000 with 20 minute blinds afaik.

Pokerevents

Happy Camper wrote:

Anyone have any info on this tournament? Registration times, starting stacks, etc...

Thanks,

Mike.

Interested to know if anyone played in this event, and if they did, what did they think.

Davey Devil

I'm interested to know have you been capping your events?

See more here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=233794

Pokerevents

Red Cow satellite had 69 runners @€;50 plus €5 admin fee.
One re-buy is allowed and if player does not re-buy(this is strictly regulated) a top-up is available @€;50 euro.
This satellite had 28 re-buys and 14 top-ups.
Total monies taken in was €5,900approx.Inc admin fee.
Total value of payout was €5000 which was guaranteed.On top of €5k there was a ticket to irish open sunday tournament (value €165) kindly put up by the Merrion. A ticket to Red cow cancer aid tournament (value €150) put up by organisers. Also a free satellite ticket to next red cow event on 24th March(value €50).
C.mon lets hear it....

Marq

ok, where'd the other 350 go?

Davey Devil

Pokerevents wrote:

Red Cow satellite had 69 runners @€;50 plus €5 admin fee.
One re-buy is allowed and if player does not re-buy(this is strictly regulated) a top-up is available @€;50 euro.
This satellite had 28 re-buys and 14 top-ups.
Total monies taken in was €5,900approx.Inc admin fee.
Total value of payout was €5000 which was guaranteed.On top of €5k there was a ticket to irish open sunday tournament (value €165) kindly put up by the Merrion. A ticket to Red cow cancer aid tournament (value €150) put up by organisers. Also a free satellite ticket to next red cow event on 24th March(value €50).
C.mon lets hear it....

So, the answer is yes then. You do cap the events. Won't be playing in any of these tournies.

Pokerevents

My intentions are basically twofold, firstly to promote live tournament poker nationwide and secondly to give players a opportunity to compete at the highest level worldwide.
Answering moranic question to people whose interests are dubious is a waste of my time. However, for the record. This is exactly where the €350 went.
Hotel hire €600
Food €500
Equiptment (laptops/projectors/p.a hire etc) €300
Tournament director €400
Assistant director €200
Adminx2 €300
Security €185
Croupiers €950
Set-up €250
P.r (poster &flyer dist) €350
Advertising costs, printed materials, chips, cards,
seat tickets, cutting cards, buttons etc are not included
as they were kindly financed by v.cpoker.ie who believe in
the future of this project.
Believe me there are many other overheads indirectly associated
with these events that are not listed. However im believing if run
right these events will be subsidised more by sponsors in the future
in the meantime im delighted to have the support of real poker community.
What I mean by "real" is the people who interested in the long term growth of the sport and support efforts made by promoters who are trying to bring poker to the wider audiences.
If people are not interested in this that is understandable, I'm sure they will find other passions in life. In the meantime, those making the effort and actually doing it , should be supported.

allin-king

jaysus christ anytime someone tries to organise a tournament they get loads of abuse on this forum i personally wouldn't be bothered if the organisers decided to cap it within reason since they have gone to the trouble of setting it up, don't know why pokerevents even has to explain his ex's to anybody here. If you dont like the set up of these tournaments dont play but stop going on like the bleeding gestapo

Marq

Pokerevents wrote:

What I mean by "real" is the people who interested in the long term growth of the sport and support efforts made by promoters who are trying to bring poker to the wider audiences.

Considering that I work as a poker dealer, the growth of poker and support for it by promoters is obviously of great concern to me. However, I think that capped prize pools are detrimental to the cause as a whole. By all means raise your registration fee to reflect the true costs involved, but it's farcical to take a registration fee from punters and then to also take money off the top of the prize pool to cover administration.

I think that what poker events are doing is beneficial to poker in Ireland as a whole, but capping prize-pools is a scam, no matter how much or how little is being taken out of the prize-pool. My complaint would be the same were it 350 or 3500.

out of interest, how many dealers were used at the red cow?

Hotel hire €600
Food €500
Equiptment (laptops/projectors/p.a hire etc) €300
Tournament director €400
Assistant director €200
Adminx2 €300
Security €185
Croupiers €950
Set-up €250
P.r (poster &flyer dist) €350

...perhaps the sale of the tv rights to Setanta might go some way to covering some of these costs.

Just a thought.

Davey Devil

I totally agree with Marq. All costs should be covered in the registration. If 5 euro is not enough to cover your costs, raise your reg. I understand you have high costs but it's vital that players know exactly what % of their money is going into the prize pool.

All-in King, the statement you made is farcical. Pokerevents sought opinions on the tournament and I gave mine. Should I only give my opinion if it is positive feedback? You suggest it's in the interest of poker players to willingly enter capped events? How is this benifical to Irish Poker players?

henbane

Pokerevents wrote:

Hotel hire €600
Food €500
Equiptment (laptops/projectors/p.a hire etc) €300
Tournament director €400
Assistant director €200
Adminx2 €300
Security €185
Croupiers €950
Set-up €250
P.r (poster &flyer dist) €350

Cost of promoting your event on boards.ie - €0

If people are not interested in this that is understandable, I'm sure they will find other passions in life. In the meantime, those making the effort and actually doing it , should be supported.

If you're not interested in answering questions from people who use this forum for something other than pimping, I suggest you stick your head back up your árse and fúck off.

bmc

I have a problem with this too but the only problem I have with it is the way it's advertised/described.

Red Cow satellite had 69 runners @€;50 plus €5 admin fee.

If you're telling people that €50 is for their chips and that €5 is for administration then €5 should be what is for administration. Not €5 plus a chunk from the €50 that won't be predisclosed.

If it was explained that the entry was €55 and rebuys were €50 and that the prize pool was capped at X amount I would have absolutely no problem with these tournaments.

The more tournaments the better!

Obviously there are big costs involved and you wnat to cover these which is fine but don't try to fool people.

Pokerevents

There were 11/12 croupiers @ the red cow thursday.

Good point regarding admin fee. To have it reflextive to actual cost. This is what we do in all our larger events(250 is plus 25), (500 is plus 40), (6000 is plus 250).
However, the truth is, all our smaller events our subsidised.
To run a 50 with total costs included in the reg/admin fee would be something like 50plus 40.
This has two disadvantages, firstly it hampers new players attending, and internet /casino heads who are used to the minimum charge for tourneys.
Also we are not taking full production costs out of fund for these smaller events. Anyone who has attented these events are blown away as to the professional nature and the genuine good value for money that they are.
What we have decided to do , and I believe it is most fair, is to charge a nonimal 10percent, and a percentage of the re-buys towards the production costs, this is clearly advertised and displayed @ all events. Again I point out they are subsidised. Only monies we make are in the bigger tourneys where the fee covers costs and hopefully balances books for the outlay on the €50 events.

NickyOD

Pokerevents wrote:

My intentions are basically twofold, firstly to promote live tournament poker nationwide and secondly to give players a opportunity to compete at the highest level worldwide.
Answering moranic question to people whose interests are dubious is a waste of my time. However, for the record. This is exactly where the €350 went.
Hotel hire €600
Food €500
Equiptment (laptops/projectors/p.a hire etc) €300
Tournament director €400
Assistant director €200
Adminx2 €300
Security €185
Croupiers €950
Set-up €250
P.r (poster &flyer dist) €350
Advertising costs, printed materials, chips, cards,
seat tickets, cutting cards, buttons etc are not included
as they were kindly financed by v.cpoker.ie who believe in
the future of this project.
Believe me there are many other overheads indirectly associated
with these events that are not listed. However im believing if run
right these events will be subsidised more by sponsors in the future
in the meantime im delighted to have the support of real poker community.
What I mean by "real" is the people who interested in the long term growth of the sport and support efforts made by promoters who are trying to bring poker to the wider audiences.
If people are not interested in this that is understandable, I'm sure they will find other passions in life. In the meantime, those making the effort and actually doing it , should be supported.

I have voiced my opinion about the skimming of the prizepool in the €50 events on other forums. I don't pretend for one second to know anything about organising a poker tournament, but it is still plainly obvious that these $50 tournies are a complete rip off, which is why I stayed clear and I'm just playing super sats.

Firstly most of the costs you have mentioned above are incurred in any normal casino who cover their costs with the reg fees, sidegames and sponsorship.

Secondly, VCPoker are making an absolute mint out of the IPT. Everyone who signed up on pokerevents.ie was sent a VCPoker CD encouraging them to make a real money deposit on their site and play the online satelites. The pokerevents website has links to VCPoker and just about everything at the event including the croupiers are emblazened in the VCPoker logo.

The only expense on the list that a normal casino would not incur is the hotel hire, so there is absolutely no excuse for pokerevents.ie to be skimming prizepools.

bmc

What we have decided to do , and I believe it is most fair, is to charge a nonimal 10percent, and a percentage of the re-buys towards the production costs, this is clearly advertised and displayed @ all events.

That, in my opinion, would be perfect. Clarity is the problem for me.

If you say that %10 will be taken from the €50 along with the €5 and at the end of the day someone who played can calculate €50 X (entries + rebuys) X 90% and see that it matches the prize fund then whatever they think of the value they can't claim to have any problem with how the tournament is run.

Change that and I'll have a much higher opinion of these events.



bmc

Waylander

I played in this tournie, went out in 9th in the first hand of the final table. I thought it was well organised, and was happy that each table had their own dealers, especially because there were an awful lot of players who had not played very often before. Alot of poor inexperienced players who were not really sure what they were doing, with a few experienced players hidden in their ranks. I enjoyed the night and thought it was well run.

NickyOD

bmc wrote:

That, in my opinion, would be perfect. Clarity is the problem for me.

If you say that %10 will be taken from the €50 along with the €5 and at the end of the day someone who played can calculate €50 X (entries + rebuys) X 90% and see that it matches the prize fund then whatever they think of the value they can't claim to have any problem with how the tournament is run.

Change that and I'll have a much higher opinion of these events.



bmc

But some of the €50 events had 160+ players. Take out the rebuys and 8 tickets to superstas and you're looking at somewhere in the region of 4-5K skimmed from the prizepool. The supersat had 145 players 250+25 in which all the money wen t back into the prizepool. Where is the consistency here? Is it a case of someone saying, "ah, yeah sure we'll take that much this week, that's grand". Do pokerevents have a target profit to make from each event? To me it just seems the prizepool has been capped at the lowest level pokerevents can get aaway with.

bmc

NickyOD wrote:

But some of the €50 events had 160+ players. Take out the rebuys and 8 tickets to superstas and you're looking at somewhere in the region of 4-5K skimmed from the prizepool. The supersat had 145 players 250+25 in which all the money wen t back into the prizepool. Where is the consistency here? Is it a case of someone saying, "ah, yeah sure we'll take that much this week, that's grand". Do pokerevents have a target profit to make from each event? To me it just seems the prizepool has been capped at the lowest level pokerevents can get aaway with.

Yes, this is what the discussion was about. But about 3 or 4 posts up Pokerevents have made their argument and suggested a change and with the change I'd be happy.

If you don't like the size of the prize fund, don't play. They have costs to cover and they want to make some money. Let them. (So long as there's transparency about how much will be in the prize fund.)

It's just more choice for poker players.

bohsman

bmc where have pokerevents stated that theyre going to change, they say 10% being the 50+5 plus a "percentage" of the rebuys they state this is clearly advetised yet wont say what that percentage is.

I have no problem if they clearly state how much they will steal from the prizepool but I will advise anyone that asks to stay away as there is better value in casinos/online

Question for pokerevents, two wednesdays in Galway one week there is 105 or so runners prizepool is 8000euro the following week there is 150+ runners again there is 8000euro in the prizepool, what percentage are you taking for these figures to add up

bmc

bohsman

In Pokerevents post he/she/they acknowledged that there was a problem with how they were describing the details of the tournaments (€50 + €5) and suggested (not in detail) how they might change that.

IF they change it to something completely transparent then I will be happy enough with the way the tournaments are run.

I'm not saying that I will consider them to be the best value available to me but I will have no reason to boycott them (as I have done since the once I played). Who knows, I may pop along as an occasional change to the usual scene.

bohsman

The suggested change was 50+40 other than that he suggested that they already were taking a fixed percentage and that this was clearly advertised

bmc

Ok... You're right. It could be read that way too. I understood it differently.

(I don't want to hear any guff from you about misreading things bohsman!)

Pokerevents? Any defence?

Lafortezza

The reason most of the regulars are kicking up a fuss is because we all play in casinos, where the reg is the only money you pay that doesn't go directly into the prize pool.
All costs/expenses are taken from this reg, wages, heat, light, etc.

If Pokerevents tournaments and all similar competitions were transparent about how the prize structure and total prize fund was organised then I doubt people would have too many complaints. They'd either turn up to play or they wouldn't.

But so far people are told its €50+5 to enter, the prize fund will be a guaranteed/capped €8k for instance. For example if you get 150 people and everyone rebuys or tops up once then that's €15000 taken in, and just over half paid in prizes?

I don't think I'll play in any of these tournament while the casinos are offering a much much much better potential return for your money.

NickyOD

lafortezza wrote:

The reason most of the regulars are kicking up a fuss is because we all play in casinos, where the reg is the only money you pay that doesn't go directly into the prize pool.
All costs/expenses are taken from this reg, wages, heat, light, etc.

If Pokerevents tournaments and all similar competitions were transparent about how the prize structure and total prize fund was organised then I doubt people would have too many complaints. They'd either turn up to play or they wouldn't.

But so far people are told its €50+5 to enter, the prize fund will be a guaranteed/capped €8k for instance. For example if you get 150 people and everyone rebuys or tops up once then that's €15000 taken in, and just over half paid in prizes?

I don't think I'll play in any of these tournament while the casinos are offering a much much much better potential return for your money.

I think pokerevents main target are players who don't have access to casinos/cardroom like myself in Limerick where as yet there is no cardroom. This is how they got away with it in Galway. Many of the players hadn't experienced real live tournaments before and thus were fooled into thinking it was a professionally organised event. They just didn't know any better.

By the way, since the reg fee for the 145 player supersat in Galway was €25 (on top of 250) they have no excuse for charging any more than that. 50+40 is ridiculous.

VCPoker would have been better off staying away from Pokerevents.ie and promoting the IPT themselves throughout proper established cardrooms with experienced croupiers, instead running the events in hotels, with poorly trained dealers.

I don't want to bitch about structure because this is the nature of low buy in events, but the supersat in Galway missed at least 2 blind levels on the first day. Also when it got down to the last 27 for the second day they reduced the blinds back down to 500/1000/100 from 1000/2000/200 where it finished on the Friday. I went out in 28th and had I known the blinds would reduce my strategy may have changed. Aside from that half the dealers are terrible. Many had to be told by other players at the table if a player did not make a legitimate raise. They weren't in control at all and arguments were frequent.

Complaints aside though for someone like me who has been restricted to playing online for a long long time these events are the only way to get my live poker fix without going to greater expense by playing at the Fitz/Merrion/ against tougher oposition, although I have been in the Macau in Cork a bit. I might not like the events but I don't have much choice, and pokerevents.ie knows this. They know that people will come to play regartdless, such is the hunger for live poker in Ireland at the moment.

bohsman

I wont play these events and I have also stopped playing on VC poker transferring my account to ppp

Waylander

I have to say in the Red Cow I did not experience any of the issues that Nicky has just been through. Maybe it is easier to get good dealers in Dublin, I think I had seen at least one of them in the Fitz before but I could be wrong. I htought the night went well and I would play in the tournie again. I would be interested in the seeing a comment about the prizepool though.

Pokerevents

NickyOD wrote:

But some of the €50 events had 160+ players. Take out the rebuys and 8 tickets to superstas and you're looking at somewhere in the region of 4-5K skimmed from the prizepool. The supersat had 145 players 250+25 in which all the money wen t back into the prizepool. Where is the consistency here? Is it a case of someone saying, "ah, yeah sure we'll take that much this week, that's grand". Do pokerevents have a target profit to make from each event? To me it just seems the prizepool has been capped at the lowest level pokerevents can get aaway with.

For the record no prizepool has being skimed. All monies are accounted with graphics displaying all payouts.
Your talking about something you know nothing about. Pokerevents never had 160plus players in any of our tournaments.
The only people getting away with anything is people like yourself you are doing nothing to promote the game, but yet like to think themselves as some authority on tournament poker in Ireland.
I've read your comments more than once, and I suggest you take off them sunglasses your hiding behind, and look at the overall picture. You are completely full of your own woofully negative, dubiously motivated opinions.
You should stay away from the sats like you've said ,and the super-sats and all other live events, you are a true bluffer, to the point of being fake.
Good luck.

amp

Arguing with your customers isn't the best idea. Also hiding the fact that your going to spam people in the rules doesn't help much either.

You are skimming the prize pool, because your covering costs with something other than the reg fee. When I played I was not aware of this and it seems others weren't aware of this also. I'd suggest you hire someone better at marketing because instead of addressing what I think are legitimate concerns, you seem to be on tilt and attacking people instead.

Lastly, and I'm sure Hyzepher would agree with me, I would ask people to refrain from personal attacks on this forum.

NickyOD

Pokerevents wrote:

For the record no prizepool has being skimed. All monies are accounted with graphics displaying all payouts.
Your talking about something you know nothing about. Pokerevents never had 160plus players in any of our tournaments.
The only people getting away with anything is people like yourself you are doing nothing to promote the game, but yet like to think themselves as some authority on tournament poker in Ireland.
I've read your comments more than once, and I suggest you take off them sunglasses your hiding behind, and look at the overall picture. You are completely full of your own woofully negative, dubiously motivated opinions.
You should stay away from the sats like you've said ,and the super-sats and all other live events, you are a true bluffer, to the point of being fake.
Good luck.

lol. Here is a quote from the pokerevents.ie editorial section. This was the very first satelite.

"Initially, 14 tables were set up, expecting this to be sufficient to comfortably seat those attending. But with people arriving from as far a field as Sligo, Limerick and Athlone, additional tables had to be laid on in an attempt to cater to the extra numbers."

10 players per table, 14 + more tables. Works out to atleast 160 to me. A player at the event told me it was over 150 so I can hardly be accused of making things up.

I dont know where you get off making very personal and direct insults on this site but I can tell you one thing, it is you who knows nothing about poker. My opinions were shared by many professionals and other experienced players at the super sat. I don't exactly know what you mean by "dubiously motivated" so you might explain that one to me, and believe me I want to do everything to promote poker in Ireland, I'm just not going to promote satelites that rip people off. I have played in EPT ranking events in Cork and in terms of professionalism they are the world series compared to your events so instead getting offensive, show some class and start taking the criticism on board.

I will still be playing the super sats, and as for the sunglasses, I'll leave them on thanks.

By the way, since its obvious you saw me at the IPT in Galway, and seem to feel you know a great deal about me, feel free to come up to me and discuss this topic when I travel to Cork.

regards

N.