Servicing advice needed please

Neil_Sedaka

I've had so many bad experiences with dodgy backstreet mechanics that in future I'm going to do the 6000 mile service myself, car is a Rover 620I petrol.

I've found it very difficult to get any leverage on the sump plug as the car is so low (really needs to be over a pit) so I'm thinking of going to one of the Kwick-fit/ Advance places for the oil change. Anyone any suggestions here?

Should I change the fuel filter as I don't think it's been changed for a couple of years?

Also, is there any point using expensive spark plugs or will standard ones work as well?

As for the air filter, I change this every service as it only costs about €8

Any help or advice appreciated, or can anyone recommend a good, honest mechanic in the Dublin 6 or 12 area, thanks.

stoopidkid

just bring it to a rover dealership?

lomb

nah, basic servicing is easy to do. to loosen the sump plug, there is a way, u are correct it is hard to get leverage.the way to do it is this.put some superglue on the inside of a ring spanner and lighty glue it to the plug, then after a minute get under it and kick the spanner end with ur foot. works for me.

Ratchet

lomb wrote:

nah, basic servicing is easy to do. to loosen the sump plug, there is a way, u are correct it is hard to get leverage.the way to do it is this.put some superglue on the inside of a ring spanner and lighty glue it to the plug, then after a minute get under it and kick the spanner end with ur foot. works for me.

i just hav this picture of spanner being stuck permanently to the plug

Can you not extend the spanner ? Engine has to be warm which helps with the plug and oil drainage

lomb

Ratchet wrote:

i just hav this picture of spanner being stuck permanently to the plug

Can you not extend the spanner ? Engine has to be warm which helps with the plug and oil drainage

i have tried to extend spanner with a vice grips holding on to it, didnt work. super glue is the best way, can always use a hammer toloosen it if its stuck after

Seth Brundle

re: using a foot or hammer - forcing something is the best way to cause damage!

lomb

kbannon wrote:

re: using a foot or hammer - forcing something is the best way to cause damage!

it has to be forced, as otherwise it wont open. another way of doing it is to park the car with 2 wheels on a high kerb, then u can safely get under it. attach a ring spanner to the plug, holding the end of it with your hand. now tap the shank of it with a hammer, i gaurantee u it will open.
the vw golf is the worst as its sump plug is at the back of the motor, really have to get under it.

Ratchet

kbannon wrote:

re: using a foot or hammer - forcing something is the best way to cause damage!

there are certain things that you will not do without hammer or force , it's there to help you but use it wisely

bp_me

Consider my sig in conjunction with moderate use of force

Interceptor

stoopidkid wrote:

just bring it to a rover dealership?

Hmm - appropriate handle.

Anyways. Unless you suspect the fuel filter as requiring a change I wouldn't worry - if it is easily removed and not too expensive then it would be preventive maintenance to change it. Standard spark plugs are fine but you get what you pay for - don't buy a name you don't recognise. The air filter should be ok for 10,000 miles in this climate - do you plan on bringing the car to Africa any time soon?

As for the sump plug, they usually come out with moderate force and if you can get a good grip on it and slip a SHORT power bar over (metal tube) over the ratchet or wrench then it should open. The copper gasket usually causes the faces to stick but I've never had to get medieval one a sump plug. Can you jack, chock and support the car enough to allow you under it safely? The superglue trick is a new one on me - I have used Blu-tack and dbl-sided tape to hold tools at odd angles but never a sump plug.

Oh and don't do what I did the first time I changed the oil in a car and empty the gearbox - I couldn't figure why the oil on the dipstick wasn't going down....

'c

lomb

Interceptor wrote:

slip a SHORT power bar over (metal tube) over the ratchet or wrench then it should open.



'c

good idea, the back of a wheel brace might do, slip it over the spanner.

Neil_Sedaka

The sump plug is at a 90 degree angle to the ground and there's very little room to get any leverage, I'm wondering if the 12v impact wrench in Argos might be the man for the job here?

Been on the phone to Kwik-fit and they want €75 for a semi synthetic oil change, Advance Pitstop want €160 for a 6000 mile service, semi synthetic and "spurious" plugs!

Interceptor

Can you get at it from above? Maybe with the air filter off? I'm not familiar with the engine bay on a 620 but I'm sure there is a way to get at it without resorting to buying stuff from Argos? What type of fitment is the plug - square/hex/Allen?

'c

Neil_Sedaka

No not a chance of reaching it from above, I don't mind shelling out the €40 for the wrench if it'll do the job. The plug is a standard 6 or 8 sided affair (can't be sure without going out and having a look)

Do you think the impact wrench would remove it?

Interceptor

We're making progress! It is most likely a 10mm (or less likely a 12mm) Allen key and you can buy these for a couple of € from most hardware shops. Your deep-seated need to buy a power tool is a cry for help which you must ignore and just follow my advice. The Allen key will not slip or fail once fully inserted and you can put mammoth force on it without fear - again a short piece of tube (I use 20mm metal electrical conduit - but I'm a 'leccy so I have lots lying about) will allow you to put enough force to tear the engine off its mounts (unlikely!) and open the plug.

I reiterate - it may be necessary to jack the car up and place concrete blocks or axle stands under it to support it to allow you to work under it, remembering to keep the handbrake on and chock the wheels.

Don't lose the copper gasket off the sump plug - or better again, try and have a new one ready to fit when you are replacing the plug. You don't need an impact wrench - buy a decent trolley jack and some axle stands if you are bursting to spend money.

'c

Neil_Sedaka

It's not an Allen key type, just a standard 6 or 8 sided nut. I have a trolley jack but no axle stands or blocks and tbh I wouldnt get under a car on axle stands.

I have an assortment of copper sump plug washers, a new oil filter and a gallon and a half of semi synthetic ready to go, I just need to get one or two turns on the bas**rd

I tried the hollow tube thing a few weeks back and whilst it used to work when I serviced my Transit van, it's no use here because of the lack of turning space.

Might park over a manhole for two minutes, that would solve the problem

BrianD3

I don't know if the electric impact wrench is such a good idea given that it's probably quite bulky and it sounds like you have very little space to work with. Maybe better to spend a few quid on a set of ramps (~30 quid i'd say) which will allow you to get the front of the car a lot further up off the ground giving you a chance to attack the nut with a decent length bar/spanner. If you are careful and take precautions there should be no safety issues with working under the car while it's up on ramps.

BrianD3

Interceptor

Hmm - sorry I picked up the 6/8 sided thing wrong - ignore allen key rant. If it is that tight to get at that a standard ring spanner won't get it then I can't imagine the impact wrench will do the trick. If you have serviced a Tranny van then you know what you are at and unless there is a special tool for the job (which I doubt) then I'm ou of ideas. Bring it to Galway to me and I'll get it open...

Heres a mad notion - a mate of mine has a vacuum gizmo which comes with a tube which you push down into the engine - pumping a handle on it sucks the oil up out of the engine and there is no need to open the sump. I forgot I used it the last time I serviced the Espace. He bought this thing in Tripart in Galway but I'm sure lots of places do them - I doubt it cost more than €30 but I can check. If you plan keeping the car it would pay for itself in internet access costs alone over three years....

'c

greglo23

its either a 14 or 17 spanner. it would also be well worth your while to change the fuel filter as the modern fuel pumps are only slightly larger than a windscreen washer pump and the filters are much smaller than on the older fuel injected cars. most of the fuel pump problems on modern cars are caused by the filters not being changed on a regular basis. the filters are cheap but the pumps plus fitting are expensive.

Neil_Sedaka

Cheers folks thanks for all the replies, I'll try parking the front wheels on the kerb and see how that goes, if not I think I'll buy the wrench and failing that I'm driving to Galway

ZENER

Is this a Rover 620i with the Honda PGM-Fi Engine ( Up to 97 I think)?? If so be careful with your choice of plugs, the gap should be 1.1mm. No harm to change the Distributor Cap and Rotor while you're at it. If it's not the Honda engine ignore this :rolleyes:

By the way have you ever had problems starting it after it's been running for a while or if it's been out in the sun during summer ??

ZEN

Neil_Sedaka

ZENER wrote:

Is this a Rover 620i with the Honda PGM-Fi Engine ( Up to 97 I think)?? If so be careful with your choice of plugs, the gap should be 1.1mm. No harm to change the Distributor Cap and Rotor while you're at it. If it's not the Honda engine ignore this :rolleyes:

By the way have you ever had problems starting it after it's been running for a while or if it's been out in the sun during summer ??

ZEN

Yeah it's the Honda engine allright, do you recommend any particular plugs or will ngk, bosch, champion etc. do if I gap them correctly?

Thanks for the input.

AMurphy

Neil_Sedaka wrote:

......
I've found it very difficult to get any leverage on the sump plug as the car is so low (really needs to be over a pit) so I'm thinking of going to one of the Kwick-fit/ Advance places for the oil change. Anyone any suggestions here?

Should I change the fuel filter as I don't think it's been changed for a couple of years?

Also, is there any point using expensive spark plugs or will standard ones work as well?

As for the air filter, I change this every service as it only costs about €8

....QUOTE]

Some of ye are overboard with hammers, feet, airimpact tools etc. That's why they get crossthreaded and stripped in the first place. A 12" breaker/T bar is more than sufficient.

Invest in a 4 concrete blocks and/or some wide x thick (6 x 2") bits of wood and put them together in a stepped formation to get you 6" off the ground.
Or a small jack with jackstands and learn where the support points are. and a purpose built oil catcher with a screen, then you can drop the plug, spanner, filter on it without a spalsh or having to fish for it later.

No need to overtighten the plug, if you use a new seal every time. Be particularly careful if it is Aluminium pan, they strip real easy.

Fuel filter every 60K should be OK.

No need for extra-special plugs. But if you can obtain a long life (W) version of your current ones, sure go ahead. (buy a 1/2 doz drain plug seals at the same time) Just do not settle for anything that "looks" similar. Fouling can cause runing problems.
One of the biggest problems I have encountered from the garages you are trying to avoid is ADT plugs (ADT = Any Dam Thing).

Ratchet

Neil_Sedaka wrote:

Yeah it's the Honda engine allright, do you recommend any particular plugs or will ngk, bosch, champion etc. do if I gap them correctly?

Thanks for the input.

plugs for this model are NGK ZFR6F-11 as posted before 1.1mm gap

Neil_Sedaka

Aaaaaahhhh, all the advice I needed was here http://www.octane.ie/cult/forum/archive/index.php/t-121 all the time.

Quote - ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling
mounting holes just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion,
and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your
future becomes.

lomb

AMurphy wrote:

Neil_Sedaka wrote:

......


Invest in a 4 concrete blocks and/or some wide x thick (6 x 2") bits of wood and put them together in a stepped formation to get you 6" off the ground.
Or a small jack with jackstands and learn where the support points are. and a purpose built oil catcher with a screen, then you can drop the plug, spanner, filter on it without a spalsh or having to fish for it later.

i would be very careful getting under a car with axle stands or wood strips. concrete blocks are the only way to go for total safety, but i suppose theoretically even these could split/crack and the car fall on top of u,

edmund_f

might be worth investing some of the money you are going to save in a Haynes manual?

http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=14532&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10215&top_category=10001

usually pretty clear, including all tools you will/may need, techniques, spare parts, problems you may come across etc.

ZENER

Ratchet wrote:

plugs for this model are NGK ZFR6F-11 as posted before 1.1mm gap

Yup they're the ones !! You'd be amazed the number of motorfactors that assume all cars ore .7 or .8 mm which leads to pre-ignition and a terrible drive. Nippon Denso made the original plugs for the Honda models with that engine IIRC.

Remember what I said about the Distributor cap and rotor though, at the very least clean them to get rid of any dust with a little fine sandpaper.

If you experience any starting problems let me know I may be able to help. I know 3 people with 620i/Accords who paid out 300 non-refundable quids each to breakers yards for distributors they didn't need. A small solder job fixes he problem!!

By the way a Vise-Grip is yer only man for sump nuts !!

ZEN

MercMad

I agree with AMurphy, electric tools and hammers could be disatrous on an alloy sump. Also the threads could be interference fit.

There is nothing wrong or unsafe about axle stands if used correctly, these are the safest method.

You could, as suggested put the two front wheels on a high kerb and leave it in gear with hand brake on and also chock the rear wheels. that should give you enough clearance for leverage.

The best bit of advice I can give you is to use a reputable brand high quality spanner, not a double hex, and if you dont have a long bar then another ring spanner can be locked onto the opposite open end. If you still have difficulty then apply pressure and lightly tap the bung with a steel hammer. I said LIGHTLY !! (Every action has a reaction)

I've never failed to get a sump bung off this way. Also one small issue regarding the plugs. Usually cheap spark plugs are made cheaply because the threads arent machined accurately or they are not nikel coated. This can make them difficult to get out again.........and you dont want to go there. Some people recommend applying Copper anti seize grease tot he threads and others say copper and aluminium together can cause problems. I would deffo put lubricant of some kind on the threads !

AMurphy

lomb wrote:

AMurphy wrote:

i would be very careful getting under a car with axle stands or wood strips. concrete blocks are the only way to go for total safety, but i suppose theoretically even these could split/crack and the car fall on top of u,

So would I, which is why I suggest 2" thick. Solid blocks will hold up a lot of car.
So will jack stands, if placed in the correct locations... like not under the floor, sump, axels or fuel tank.

Anyway, there is a way of overlapping planks so you get a solid platform and a stepped ramp.

Cut a piece 16" long, and 3 other pieces each ~8" longer, 16, 24, 32, 40
Then stack and screw together.
Add a stop at the end ( to prevent overshoot) and there you have it and because it is easy to get up on the first step, they will not "run away" from you like speep angled metal ramps.
and while you are it, get a 6" x6" x 15" block and saw across at an angle of about 45° and you got 2 chocks for the rears.

Cu, Al, or Ag antisieze on plugs is better than regular axle grease. The dissimilar metals do not cause a problem in the grease and regular grease may dry out and cause binding when dry/solid.

Dilbert75

Had the same problem on d'wife's Fiesta. Had it serviced by a dealer mechanic (nixer) and he ended up forcibly removing the plug and replacing it with a larger Focus plug (obviously tapped out the sump to size). When it came to the next service, it was stuck again. I got a Draper pump, a slightly posh version in that it has a reservoir in which the oil collects (other versions pump from sump to basin/bucket/barrel). It was pricey though - something like €90+VAT, in a Draper sale (normally something like €115+VAT). It does work though and in certain cars (eg. my old Vectra) you can change oil and filter without ever having to get down on the ground - all from under the bonnet.

Neil_Sedaka

All done - New air, oil and even fuel filter, plugs and a 10w-40 semi synthetic.
My saving grace came in the form of a 4" solid I found in a neighbours garden!

The jack wouldn't raise the car enough to use the (newly purchased) axle stands effectively so I placed the trolley jack on the cement block.

Was still shi**ing it though under the car pulling and banging at things :eek:
There's no access to the oil filter from the engine bay, so that had to be changed from the rear of the engine underneath.

At least I know it was done well with proper parts, cost including axle stands €111.07