I smell a set-up!

Rossonero

So as tis bank robbery details emerged, it brought with it evidence that the IRA could be involved, also even members of Sinn Fein.
Any respect I had for Sinn Fein was going down the plughole.

Then, the story that campaign posters of a Sinn Fein member was found in a white van used in the robbery, and I am of the suspicion that Sinn Fein are being set up, maybe by the British govn. and probably the irish govn?

Surely, a gang who was as clever as to plan such an audicious robbery so well, would not be as stupid as to store political posters in the getaway vehicle.

Stabshauptmann

Please link.
I only got a bit on the radio: 6 PIRA members in dublin arrested. In there possesion were a balaclave a stun gun and some posters. I didnt hear anything about the van but it seems very strange

Xterminator

I think you are getting mixed up.

In 2002 a van was stopped with posters for a sinn fein td, a stun gun, other weapons (pick axe handles etc) and some ballaclava's etc.

The occupants were arrested, and yesteday it was reported that they were conviced of membership of the provo's, and jailed.

Seperate Issue, but shows the criminal element link to sinn fein. I mean do you think any other part workers putting up posters would have similar illegal items?

X

BuffyBot

Herr Capitan wrote:

So as tis bank robbery details emerged, it brought with it evidence that the IRA could be involved, also even members of Sinn Fein.
Any respect I had for Sinn Fein was going down the plughole.

Then, the story that campaign posters of a Sinn Fein member was found in a white van used in the robbery, and I am of the suspicion that Sinn Fein are being set up, maybe by the British govn. and probably the irish govn?

Surely, a gang who was as clever as to plan such an audicious robbery so well, would not be as stupid as to store political posters in the getaway vehicle.

Are you sure you aren't mixing up the Northern Bank robbery and this which were convictions for events which took place in 2002?

Rossonero

Oh right. Excusey

Stabshauptmann

like i said i only cought half the report on the radio

Johnny_the_fox

whos to say the bank robbery isnt a 'set up'. meaning: point the blame at SF and to hamper SF's campaign?

1. A month before the Northern Bank Raid, a group of Loyalist attempted to rob a bank in Belfast using the same method with was used in the Northern Bank Raid.

2. Nothing is being said about the delay in police arriving at the bank after a traffic warden reported "two men acting suspiciously"

3. TNAG on Saturday night did a programme on Eddie Fullerton (a SF member) which concluded that RUC and possibly Gardaí collusion in his murder because of the fear of a SF member getting elected.


or maybe im looking at the whole thing from a too wide picture.

Hobbes

The only thing I can't figure out is if they did it, did they not think this sort of thing would happen if they were caught?

Why do people automatically assume the bad guys are stupid?

Sleepy

Because most of their support base are?

Kingsize

as far as im aware you can buy pickaxe handles in any hardware store & balaclavas are just modified wooly hats,which only leaves the stun gun as an illegal item,considering the large amount of illegal weapons & replica firearms being brought into this country by ordinary people on there way home from holidays its hardly earth shattering stuff.
im no sinn fein supporter but i smell something very fishy & i really think that
FF in particular are scared sh*tless of SF stealing their votes.

Neuro

Herr Capitan wrote:

Surely, a gang who was as clever as to plan such an audicious robbery so well, would not be as stupid as to store political posters in the getaway vehicle.

If they were "clever" they wouldn't have stole 26 million pounds of currency that doesn't travel and can't be exchanged anywhere outside of Northern Ireland.

Hobbes

The only thing I can think of there is they didn't realise what it was they were stealing.

Or it is a setup.

Which brings me onto another point. Why does this put the peace process in trouble? Are the British going to start removing civil rights again?

Neuro

Kingsize wrote:

as far as im aware you can buy pickaxe handles in any hardware store & balaclavas are just modified wooly hats,which only leaves the stun gun as an illegal item

...and the Garda uniforms that two of the individuals were wearing when they were arrested. They were probably up to one of two things:

1) They were planning to anonymously plant some trees in north Co. Louth on behalf of the GRA.

2) They were about to stop a car/enter a house posing as Gardai and break someone's legs.

Hmmm...tough one to call.

ishmael whale

Kingsize wrote:

its hardly earth shattering stuff.

You are so right. Every year I come home from Lanzarotte with a stun gun, head up to B & Q for a few pick axe handles, borrow a van from a guy on the pretence of doing SF election work and dress up as a Garda with a few of the lads. It's mighty crack altogether.

Jimboo_Jones

The reason it throws the peace process into doubt is, as stated in another thread, it throws everything that SF says into doubt. SF and IRA have denied any involvement in this robbery, if it turns out they are lying about that, what else are they lying about?

But, more worrying would be the implication that rather than the IRA disbanding and joining ‘normal’ society, they will be transforming into a serious organised crime gang, al la the mafia. If the IRA has no intension of re-arming, then just what is the money for, other than to line peoples pockets?

As for what the criminals thought would happen to them if they where caught? .. well I imagine that they thought that

a that they wouldn't be caught, and if they did
b that they could just deny any knowlege, plant a few notes on the police and claim it was all a set up...

Then there is the other possibility that they where just greedy and thought that the gain out weighed the risk..

DeVore

ishmael whale wrote:

You are so right. Every year I come home from Lanzarotte with a stun gun, head up to B & Q for a few pick axe handles, borrow a van from a guy on the pretence of doing SF election work and dress up as a Garda with a few of the lads. It's mighty crack altogether.

Jeez... you too? I do that all the time. I have an antique collection of balaclavas that I use to keep out the cold and those werent axe handles, they were kindling for a REALLY BIG FIRE to , you know, keep out the cold.


Its very cold here sometimes you know.

DeV.

DeVore

DeVore wrote:

Its very cold here sometimes you know.

DeV.

You'd better have extra pick axe handles chopped up for tomorrow then because it's going to get colder-a repeat of mondays icckle snowstorm is possible

Hobbes

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

what else are they lying about?

Like what exactly? The only thing I can think of is the disarmanent, and that was overseen by the UK government AFAIR.

they will be transforming into a serious organised crime gang, al la the mafia.

I think you are going to see that regardless, in much the same way as the RIRA split away. Lets face it there is a certain criminal element to all the terrorist organisations. They aren't going to go "ooh I shall change my ways and come a chartered accountant".

What will happen though and more to the better point is you won't have more people signing up to join the IRA which will lead to its eventually winding out to not being important anymore towards a peaceful solution. Or rather not being important to people who currently give it support.

Now the problem is that it is too soon and sudden and the attack is clearly directed at SF which does (or did) have support of people who were not committed to armed conflict or do you honestly think otherwise?

Do I think there was IRA involvement? It is certainly possible that there was. Was it IRA sanctioned? Doubtful (Maybe they didn't know exactly what they would get, which would explain sanctioning). SF sanctioned? Absolutly not.

Kingsize

nobody mentioned garda uniforms in the thread,but while we are on the subjectwhere does someone get garda uniforms from?
presumably someone in the gardai supplied these maybe the investigation into criminality should start there

mycroft

Kingsize wrote:

nobody mentioned garda uniforms in the thread,but while we are on the subjectwhere does someone get garda uniforms from?
presumably someone in the gardai supplied these maybe the investigation into criminality should start there

So let me get this straight theres 30 million floating around out there, a dead man in the north, his friend in hospital and an entire community scared into silence, and you want to worry about the uniform

talk about not having your prioritories in the right order

So yeah we should be worried about how they got they got the uniforms, not what they were planning on doing while wearing them

Oh and I can think of a half dozen ways of getting the uniforms, before you start bleating, from the suppliers, stolen, borrowed on false pretentious (like "I'm doing wardrobe for this movie")

I'm kind of getting impressed by the SFers scattergun flinging of accusations at everyone this week as they try to deflect attention/blame for this/the mc carthy/ NI bank job.

ishmael whale

Kingsize wrote:

where does someone get garda uniforms from? presumably someone in the gardai supplied these maybe the investigation into criminality should start there

A Google search for ‘fake uniforms O'Snodaigh’ reveals this:

http://breaking.tcm.ie/2005/02/02/story187497.html

“…… The court has heard that gardaí found four of the men seated on the floor of a transit van and two of them were dressed in fake garda uniforms…..”

The uniforms were fakes. So it looks like your theory that its all down to a Garda plot, possibly controlled by bodysnatchers from Mars, might need a bit more investigation.

Jimboo_Jones

Hobbes wrote:

Like what exactly? The only thing I can think of is the disarmanent, and that was overseen by the UK government AFAIR.

That they are not re-arming, that they dont have more secert arms dumps hidden arround the country.

Kingsize

The uniforms were fakes. So it looks like your theory that its all down to a Garda plot, possibly controlled by bodysnatchers from Mars, might need a bit more investigation

when did i say anything about a garda plot ??
the grdai are incorruptable in this country
everybody knows that dont be so silly

mycroft

Kingsize wrote:

when did i say anything about a garda plot ??

um

kingsize wrote:

nobody mentioned garda uniforms in the thread,but while we are on the subjectwhere does someone get garda uniforms from?
presumably someone in the gardai supplied these maybe the investigation into criminality should start there

That was like five posts ago, you quite clearly say "someone in the gardai supplied them" (which would be a plot) and this should be the start of the investigation.

You then start spouting about Gardai corruption, what does that have to do with issue?

Honestly it's like arguing with a goldfish. A really stupid goldfish.

mike65

I wonder if the fact two members of the C-IRA who were convicted today on firearms offences had photos of themselves with Martin McGuiness and Martin Ferris is also a plot by securicrats. Or if SF MPs and TDs are now happy to be in the company of Splitters (okay maybe the photos go back to the pre-split days when Sinn Fien and the IRA could pose together without fall-out).

Mike.

flogen

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

whos to say the bank robbery isnt a 'set up'. meaning: point the blame at SF and to hamper SF's campaign?

1. A month before the Northern Bank Raid, a group of Loyalist attempted to rob a bank in Belfast using the same method with was used in the Northern Bank Raid.

2. Nothing is being said about the delay in police arriving at the bank after a traffic warden reported "two men acting suspiciously"

3. TNAG on Saturday night did a programme on Eddie Fullerton (a SF member) which concluded that RUC and possibly Gardaí collusion in his murder because of the fear of a SF member getting elected.


or maybe im looking at the whole thing from a too wide picture.

I love some conspiracy theories, but these three points don't really say much. Loyalists attempted a similar bank job before the "Northern Bank Raid", but what does that prove? Something tells me that with the way security in banks works there are a very limited selection of methods available to would-be thieves.
Just because police aren't giving a lot of time to their in-action doesn't mean it hasn't been looked at. There may well be an investigation into this and they aren't going to give details to the general public, chances are it all boils down to one or two PSNI officers being lazy bastards and not doing their job.
As for the TnaG doc. I didn't see it so I'm not sure where it got it's facts from on a possible setup in the afore mentioned murder.

I agree with mycroft, far too many excuses and not nearly enough answers.

flogen

billy the squid

mike65 wrote:

I wonder if the fact two members of the C-IRA who were convicted today on firearms offences had photos of themselves with Martin McGuiness and Martin Ferris is also a plot by securicrats. Or if SF MPs and TDs are now happy to be in the company of Splitters (okay maybe the photos go back to the pre-split days when Sinn Fien and the IRA could pose together without fall-out).

Mike.

ive a photo with myself and Kylie Minogue, doesnt make me a popstar though..

Like is said, members of the IRA will support Sinn Fein, so martin Ferris would be celebrity to these people, no?

the fact that the men charged yesterday with membership of a prescribed organisation were wearing FAKE garda uniforms and not real ones is interesting though.

mycroft

1. A month before the Northern Bank Raid, a group of Loyalist attempted to rob a bank in Belfast using the same method with was used in the Northern Bank Raid.

Kidnapping an offical and holding their family hostage is a time honoured tactic used by both sides and bog start criminal gangs on both sides of the border

2. Nothing is being said about the delay in police arriving at the bank after a traffic warden reported "two men acting suspiciously"

Shock horror police delay five days before christmas over standard call over the radio

Whats more pausible the IRA did this. Or the british security forces knew about the raid and did nothing (doesn't make the IRA less guilty) or the implied suggestion that the security forces commitied this raid themselves, despite the fact that thanks to the ombudsman the police are under more observation than ever before, and Huge Ord is the most progress police commisioner NI has ever seen, the raid destabilised the northern exchequer (an obvious tactic for a government to do) not to mention if found out it would bring down the labour government and ensure SF total national support for decades to come and solidify the militant base.

Occum's razor must be used in all conspiracys. Who had the most to gain, who had the most to loose. To suggest the security forces did this on the basis of above evidence is a joke.

3. TNAG on Saturday night did a programme on Eddie Fullerton (a SF member) which concluded that RUC and possibly Gardaí collusion in his murder because of the fear of a SF member getting elected.

And this is an issue and a serious one. But at the moment SF are Mr Punch trying to shout "Its behind you" and throw accusations of criminality left right
and center at everyone (FF for corruption, PSNI over everything, Gardai incompedence) is just reeking of desperation. All this groups are far from perfect but that isn't justification for the IRA's behaviour.

or maybe im looking at the whole thing from a too wide picture.

Or maybe you should slip off those green white and orange tinted glasses.

Kingsize

Honestly it's like arguing with a goldfish. A really stupid goldfish.

yeah & im doing wardrobe for a movie ......

Johnny_the_fox

mycroft wrote:

Or maybe you should slip off those green white and orange tinted glasses.

I dont wear any glasses.. :rolleyes:

Roisin Dubh

While I previously (shortly after the Northern Bank robbery) had a more open mind on who was responsible, I know realise that the IRA WAS responsible and coming from a party claiming that the IRA has never committed crimes (ha!), their denials of involvement in "criminality" are just hillarious (e.g. Mitchell McLaughlin on Newsnight last night).

Their voters in NI will most likely return to the SDLP now. We are 8 years after the GFA. It is long past time the IRA copped on to itself and learned that robbing banks and protecting the murderers of Robert McCartney is not exactly going to help get the DUP or UUP to go into government with them.

This is not a setup. It is now clear that the IRA is engaged in widespread criminal enterprise and it is surely crazy for Gerry Kelly to become the NI Security Minister (as was reportedly in the planned deal with the DUP last year) when there is a strong risk that some or all of the information given in security briefings might then be passed on to terrorists.

SF has given the Unionists the perfect excuse to avoid implementing the GFA and it needs to clean up its act in order to salvage the agreement.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Johnny_the_fox

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

This applies to Northern Ireland Parties -> Read me

mycroft

Kingsize wrote:

Honestly it's like arguing with a goldfish. A really stupid goldfish.

yeah & im doing wardrobe for a movie ......

I know you are but what am I. WTF does the above mean? You're talking gibberish and contradicting yourself. My ignore list is getting bigger

Kingsize

mycroft i was just quoting you out of context something i thought you'd be familiar with.
my original reply was much longer i have it saved if you want
but i love the concept of being able to aquire a garda uniform JUST by saying you're doing wardrobe for a movie??
if you said you were also getting props they might even throw in a few guns..
ill get mY coat & FU_KK off now then eh??
I am no match for your superior wit not to mention your knowledge of politics, film & star trek.

mycroft

Kingsize wrote:

mycroft i was just quoting you out of context something i thought you'd be familiar with.
my original reply was much longer i have it saved if you want
but i love the concept of being able to aquire a garda uniform JUST by saying you're doing wardrobe for a movie??
if you said you were also getting props they might even throw in a few guns..
ill get mY coat & FU_KK off now then eh??
I am no match for your superior wit not to mention your knowledge of politics, film & star trek.

As has been pointed out they were fake uniforms.

And 2ndly, as it happens it is surprisiningly easy to get a uniform in that manner.

monument

Hobbes wrote:

The only thing I can't figure out is if they did it, did they not think this sort of thing would happen if they were caught?

Why do people automatically assume the bad guys are stupid?

Sleepy wrote:

Because most of their support base are?

I am right in thinking ‘their support base’ are stupid because the bad guys have committed acts of violence, and their support base's continuing support for them even after such violence?

If the above were right, on such bases, you would be stupid because of your call for mass murder on another thread.

Kingsize wrote:

nobody mentioned garda uniforms in the thread,but while we are on the subjectwhere does someone get garda uniforms from?
presumably someone in the gardai supplied these maybe the investigation into criminality should start there

Lets not let your little conspiracy theory get completely out of control; I have to agree with ishmael whale’s reply about the uniforms. It is possible that the ‘gardaí uniforms’ were just a combination of standard yellow reflective jackets with a little thing that say ‘gardaí’ stuck on them, and a fireman’s formal hat.

(…Add a flash light, and then one can look the bit while standing on the side of the road slowing traffic down, or so I've been told)

billy the squid wrote:

ive a photo with myself and Kylie Minogue, doesnt make me a popstar though..

No, but it does mean one has slept with such a person. No, wait a second, that’s not right either.

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

The SDLP? Keep in mind that they want to merge with FF.


On any possable 'set up’ for the bank robbery, I don’t know.

However, unless they are getting off the record briefings which they don’t report on , I’m far more worried how the Irish media has portray the IRA not just as the only possible guilty group, but the guilty group. It is like that it is now inconceivable that anyone other then the IRA committed the robbery. It is like it has being proven beyond fact that the IRA are responsible.

While the real picture that has so far been published is that one source has claimed that the IRA committed the robbery with giving no evidence, with a crazy amount of people and groups repeating that one source. In addition, before everyone starts, there has being no firm links between the robbery and the Cork arrests.

But it is interesting, if not a bit sad and sick, that a robbery has raised more of a storm then most (if not any) killings.

Victor

Roisin Dubh wrote:

We are 8 years after the GFA.

Damn! It 2006 already.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/peace/docs/agreement.htm