to anyone who thinks apple is a friendly company that makes them feel special

lomb

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4266909.stm

flywheel

how does that make them "unfriendly" to me?

lomb

DubWireless wrote:

how does that make them "unfriendly" to me?

willing to violate traditional ethics-journalistic right to protect sources. this is almost 'sacred' in the developed world.

ScabbyLeg

As with most competitive companies, they're attempting to keep what they consider their trade secrets within their company. They've always been secretive about product development and new technologies.. its all about the money.

But rumors are always going to be part of the Mac scene, this type of story is nothing new really..

Gordon

Wrt to the thread title, you misunderstand why people buy Macintosh computers lomb, you troll.

Interesting read though, thanks for that.

SteveFE

Wastin' ya breath lomb. Tried trolling a 'nix forum instead?

Here are a couple more links for you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4170591.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4168111.stm

All the evidence is that if you want a fight with Mac owners, there are a hell of a lot more now than there were last year, and the numbers will increase all the time. I reckon in the BBSes I frequent, including here, I've seen at least twenty regulars who have been tempted over to the bright side by the Mini.

RicardoSmith

I think the form factor of the Mac mini is going to win a lot of fans. Also Windows is becoming a real pain under the weight of all the updates. On dialup its becoming impossible to keep uptodate. So theres two great reasons just there.

For me Apple are very calculating. They do lots of sneaky tricks to squeeze more money out of their products. But I've always like their products. My first Mac was a LCII. Maybe I'll switch back soon enough. But I'm under no illusions that Apple are a "better" company with better ethics than MS or Intel etc.

For me one thing that turns me away from the Mac scene is the Mac Zealots. Can't stand that carp. Most Mac forums and mags are full of it.

DubTony

lomb wrote:

willing to violate traditional ethics-journalistic right to protect sources. this is almost 'sacred' in the developed world.

... sacred like the way our minister for justice wants to force journalists who get info from Gardai to reveal their sources.
Tony

DubTony

Lomb, you must understand. It's love. Pure and simple.
L.O.V.E. Love.

Obviously you've never had an Apple O.O.B. experience. That's an Out Of Box experience. You see, there's something magical in opening the outer case of that box and feeling that massive apprehension.

What's going to greet me? What will it look like. I'll tell you ... so you can appreciate it.

When I opened the box of my iMac (the one with the moving screen ... you know what I'm talking about), it smiled at me, and ... hey, I'll admit it ... a small tear fell from my left eye.

The speakers were positioned just so... they stared at me as I opened the lid. It was a moment to cherish. A moment I knew I'd never forget ...

The screen was positioned so I could see it was the nose of this beautiful face. And the mouth, ... sigh ... well, it smiled.

I gently removed it from the box and connected the power. I lovingly loaded some software, softly connected my ethernet cable to my cable modem and within 20 minutes of my original anticipation .. aaaahhh ... the anticipation; I was surfing the net and retrieving emails from my dot mac account.

So Lomb, there you have it. It's not that we're all doo-lally about Apple. It's that Apple is doo-lally about us. They make it easy for us to do the things we bought our computers for. They make it easy for us to transfer music from our computer to our iPod. They make it easy for us to create magical movies and store and edit all our photos. They make it real easy for us to transfer all the stuff from our old computer to our new computer. Yes Lomb, even if that old computer was a POS windoze whatchamacallit.

And Lomb, they can make it easy for you too.

You see, by making it easy for us, they make us feel good.

They make us feel all warm and fuzzy.

They make us feel loved, Lomb.

And don't we all want to feel loved?

Steve loves you, Lomb. He does. And we love you too.
Buy a Mac Lomb. Go on. You know you want to.

Tony

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/irlstore

P.S. Lomb, if you want me to share more of my wonderful experiences with you feel free to email me at
applelovesyoutoo@mac.com

RicardoSmith

RicardoSmith wrote:

....
For me one thing that turns me away from the Mac scene is the Mac Zealots. Can't stand that carp. Most Mac forums and mags are full of it.

See its started already.... :mad:

But in the real world Apples also have the same problems as PC's. The higher quality of Apple is largely a myth as it is with German cars etc. Apple love their users money just as much as Wintel.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21246

DubTony wrote:

...
Obviously you've never had an Apple O.O.B. experience. That's an Out Of Box experience. You see, there's something magical in opening the outer case of that box and feeling that massive apprehension.
...

http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5099616.html?tag=nefd_top
http://www.musox.com/article44.html
http://www.macintouch.com/pbg4reader30.html
http://www.pbsource.com/features/Class_Action_Suit.shtml
http://www.photo.is/titanium.html
http://www.airbagindustries.com/archives/006313.php
http://www.pbfixit.com/Guide/

Can you feel the love?

Don't get me wrong I like Macs and know their strengths but as a long time Mac user I've been burned a few times. So theres no Rose tinted glasses here.

seagizmo

DubTony wrote:

snip....

And don't we all want to feel loved?

snip....

Stop it DubTony, your making me fell weak at the knees!

This is twice now I have seen your page long love expressed for Apple, I think you may have a problem

SG

dub45

I'm sorry to say that virtually every contact or dealing I have had with either Apple or the Apple store has made me feel far from special. Their customer service has been in my experience appalling!!!! And they are far more bureaucratic than any Civil Service department I ever dealt with.

lomb

Gordon wrote:

Wrt to the thread title, you misunderstand why people buy Macintosh computers

do i really, think about it, people do buy them as they get a feel good feeling staring at an apple be it a mac or ipod. their design is great though!

DubTony

seagizmo wrote:

Stop it DubTony, ....... I think you may have a problem
SG

I couldn't help myself. My real opinion is that Apple is a company that makes the computer and OS that I like to use. They are quite innovative and have good designers.

As for them being unfriendly? That's nonsense. The company is neither friendly nor unfriendly in my opinion. It's a company. It's duty is to generate a profit for it's shareholders. And they'll do that whatever way they can.

The whole argument about which is better, Windows or Macintosh, is a bit like proclaiming that Coke is better than Pepsi. Or Mars bars are better than Walnut Whips. Or Neff fridge freezers are better than Volkswagen cars. It's absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, if you didn't have a laugh at it, you'd smack someone.

Tony

RicardoSmith

I don't see where you are going with this..you're just wrong. Especially about the Walnut whips. Ummmm whips....

JustHalf

DubTony wrote:

The whole argument about which is better, Windows or Macintosh, is a bit like proclaiming that Coke is better than Pepsi.

Coke is better than Pepsi!

lomb

JustHalf wrote:

Coke is better than Pepsi!

it definately is, cant beat the original!

tonky

Happiness = Mac + (Coke or Coffee) + Mars Bar.
I suppose this will start a war with the Walnut Whip people - ah well.
Don't think Apple are any better or worse than other companies, it's just business.

flywheel

lomb wrote:

willing to violate traditional ethics-journalistic right to protect sources. this is almost 'sacred' in the developed world.

not being a 'traditional ethics-jounralist' still don't see how it makes them "unfriendly" to me...

lomb wrote:

think about it, people do buy them as they get a feel good feeling staring at an apple

thanks for the laugh

lomb

DubWireless wrote:

not being a 'traditional ethics-jounralist' still don't see how it makes them "unfriendly" to me...

willing to do anything not unlike MS.

uberwolf

dub45 wrote:

I'm sorry to say that virtually every contact or dealing I have had with either Apple or the Apple store has made me feel far from special. Their customer service has been in my experience appalling!!!! And they are far more bureaucratic than any Civil Service department I ever dealt with.

They told my GF that they didn't communicate by email. IT company doesn't email, phone or fax only.

and this was when she rang three weeks into their guaranteed 1 week turnaround to see why she had no communication from them as to why her PB was kaputty.

Left a lot to be desired. But I'd never go back to Wintel

whippet

all respect to journalistic rights and ethics etc but apple require all employees and agents who are privy to new information, products etc .. to sign NDA (non disclosure agreements), which are legally binding contracts. The whole issue with Think Secret is that as far as apple are concerned somebody has broken this contract and disclosed the information, I believe that apple are well within their rights to seek and find who is in breach of contract.

Any listed company is within it's rights to have trade secrects and to protect these secrets.

Journalists as far as I am concerned over step the mark far too often, infringing on others rights and as soon as there is even the slightest move to curtail their 'questionable' actions they cry foul.

lomb

whippet wrote:

all respect to journalistic rights and ethics etc but apple require all employees and agents who are privy to new information, products etc .. to sign NDA (non disclosure agreements), which are legally binding contracts. The whole issue with Think Secret is that as far as apple are concerned somebody has broken this contract and disclosed the information, I believe that apple are well within their rights to seek and find who is in breach of contract.

Any listed company is within it's rights to have trade secrects and to protect these secrets.

Journalists as far as I am concerned over step the mark far too often, infringing on others rights and as soon as there is even the slightest move to curtail their 'questionable' actions they cry foul.

modern law would dictate apples contract is between their employees and apple and has nothing to do with the journalist. any sane minded person would accept this. they should find out themselves who is leaking info not ask the guy who was told it.

ScabbyLeg

lomb wrote:

willing to do anything not unlike MS.

Ah but therein lies the difference: MS produce crap software.

I enjoy using my Mac because it runs better than any PC I've ever had. Simple as, really. Believe me, I looked into it, I didn't spend €2,000 just because it looked nice (but hey, nothing wrong with that) or because I thought Steve Jobs was going to be my pal.

RicardoSmith

ScabbyLeg wrote:

Ah but therein lies the difference: MS produce crap software.

I enjoy using my Mac because it runs better than any PC I've ever had. Simple as, really. Believe me, I looked into it, I didn't spend €2,000 just because it looked nice (but hey, nothing wrong with that) or because I thought Steve Jobs was going to be my pal.

Yes Apples software or hardware never has any problems....LOL.
Do a search for OS X and problems and you'll find nothing....

ozt9vdujny3srf

DubTony wrote:

Lomb, you must understand. It's love. Pure and simple.
L.O.V.E. Love.


When I opened the box of my iMac (the one with the moving screen ... you know what I'm talking about), it smiled at me, and ... hey, I'll admit it ... a small tear fell from my left eye.

The speakers were positioned just so... they stared at me as I opened the lid. It was a moment to cherish. A moment I knew I'd never forget ...

The screen was positioned so I could see it was the nose of this beautiful face. And the mouth, ... sigh ... well, it smiled.

I gently removed it from the box and connected the power. I lovingly loaded some software, softly connected my ethernet cable to my cable modem and within 20 minutes of my original anticipation .. aaaahhh ... the anticipation; I was surfing the net and retrieving emails from my dot mac account.

[/email]

Get yourself a girlfriend...

Hugh_C

Pam and her five sisters...

DubTony

Hendrix Noisy Newspaper wrote:

Get yourself a girlfriend...

way-haaay

Jesus, if I did that my wife would kill me.

Tony

flywheel

RicardoSmith wrote:

Yes Apples software or hardware never has any problems....LOL.
Do a search for OS X and problems and you'll find nothing....

erm... didn't he say his Mac "runs better than any PC I've ever had" not that Apple software or hardware never has any problems?

RicardoSmith

DubWireless wrote:

erm... didn't he say his Mac "runs better than any PC I've ever had" not that Apple software or hardware never has any problems?

What does he mean by MS software is crap and his Mac "runs better" then?

If I said my car runs better, it would mean it ran with less probelms. No?

uberwolf

you're arguing from different sides of the same coin.

fewer probs == better. :rolleyes:

ScabbyLeg

RicardoSmith wrote:

What does he mean by MS software is crap and his Mac "runs better" then?

If I said my car runs better, it would mean it ran with less probelms. No?

I meant exactly that.. it runs better. I don't know where you got the impression I think OS X is problem-free.

When I say it runs better, I mean that it doesnt suffer from spyware, need multiple programs to deal with same, hasnt slowed down over time like I've found my Windows PCs to, doesnt prompt me with illegal operations.. stuff like that. So to me, it runs better. I would have thought if you could give any Windows user the option to reduce or elimitate problems like these, they'd take it. I did

ozt9vdujny3srf

DubTony wrote:

way-haaay

Jesus, if I did that my wife would kill me.

Tony

get a prettier wife.

seriously like, your description of your mac unpacking is a bit OTT

RicardoSmith

ScabbyLeg wrote:

I meant exactly that.. it runs better. I don't know where you got the impression I think OS X is problem-free.

When I say it runs better, I mean that it doesnt suffer from spyware, need multiple programs to deal with same, hasnt slowed down over time like I've found my Windows PCs to, doesnt prompt me with illegal operations.. stuff like that. So to me, it runs better. I would have thought if you could give any Windows user the option to reduce or elimitate problems like these, they'd take it. I did

Theres downsides to dominating the market and being backward compatiable. The spyware and virus attacks are getting out of hand I'll agree. If MS don't get a handle on it it will really hurt them. On broadband with autoupdates it not a problem. But on dialup its a disaster.

Macs are great and I reckon this will be a great year for them. Their hardware sales have been slowly decreasing for years. The Mac Mini I reckon will change that. So they may not endup as the iPod company. But they have habit of ditching support of old systems to sell their newest ones, and they have a history of not fixing problems until being forced or sued to do it.

But these issues don't raise their head with a brand new machine. So enjoy!

lomb

RicardoSmith wrote:

If MS don't get a handle on it it will really hurt them. On broadband with autoupdates it not a problem. But on dialup its a disaster.

i agree with the above, no problems since connecting to broadband it autoupdates 4 or 5 barriers.

ZENER

lomb wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4266909.stm

Shame on them ! Of course Micro$oft would NEVER do such a thing.

What is your issue with Apple lomb? This is the 2nd or 3rd thread in recent weeks that you've started with ant Mac Sentiments, you're trolling in my opinion. Are you assuming that people who macs are a thick enough to be swayed by your petty arguments ?? As was said before Apple are a profit driven company like every other company on this planet and they have a right to protect their intellectual rights with regard to their products and designs. What puzzles me about your threads is that you are not attacking apple products but instead are attempting to paint apple in a poor light. Nobody is under any illusion that Apple are trying to be the McDonalds of the computer industry, they have built up a good reputation with their products style and functionality and are doing a good job of holding on to it IMO.

From the article you linked to:

"If the court lets Apple get away with this, and exposes the confidences gained by these reporters, potential confidential sources will be deterred from providing information to the media and the public will lose a vital outlet for independent news, analysis and commentary," he said.

I personally don't like the idea of reporters having free reign to recruit moles in companies and then protect them with the first amendment to make it all seem legal. What other information could these "sources" leak out about someone that they have no business knowing in the first place. I believe Apple are right to do what they are doing as of course are Microsoft or any other company who wishes to protect investments.

ZEN

Guy:Incognito

whippet wrote:

all respect to journalistic rights and ethics etc but apple require all employees and agents who are privy to new information, products etc .. to sign NDA (non disclosure agreements), which are legally binding contracts. The whole issue with Think Secret is that as far as apple are concerned somebody has broken this contract and disclosed the information, I believe that apple are well within their rights to seek and find who is in breach of contract.

.

Is that not an issue between apple and their employees who sign the agreement though, rather than the people the employees tell. I doubt you can hold someone accountable forlistening to what soemine else has to say then telling others.

Guy:Incognito

ZENER wrote:

What other information could these "sources" leak out about someone that they have no business knowing in the first place.

That all depends on who the leaks are and how high they are in the company. Theycould have every right knowing the information depending on who they are.

ZENER

Stekelly wrote:

That all depends on who the leaks are and how high they are in the company. Theycould have every right knowing the information depending on who they are.

OK for example my bank manager has acces to my account details and all the companies I pay for various services they provide, it's part of his job to have that info available to him. Does that mean everyone else is entitled to know it ? What if he sold/told every loan company and competitor of the companies I deal with and newspaper about those private details and they started contacting me - or you - based on that info ? Is that right ? It's essentially the same situation isn't it ?

ZEN

lomb

ZENER wrote:

What is your issue with Apple lomb? This is the 2nd or 3rd thread in recent weeks that you've started with ant Mac Sentiments, you're trolling in my opinion. Are you assuming that people who macs are a thick enough to be swayed by your petty arguments ??

I dont think it matters whether people buy apple or not actually. even if they need a pc for pc stuff as well then one can pick up a cheap pc for a few hundred.

and yes the contract is between apple and their employees not between aplle and journalists. it worries me greatly quite frankly when a friendly apearing company has a free reign and can do no wrong when they are totally unethical like a wolf in sheeps cloathing. people deserve to know the truth dont they?

lomb

ZENER wrote:

OK for example my bank manager has acces to my account details and all the companies I pay for various services they provide, it's part of his job to have that info available to him. Does that mean everyone else is entitled to know it ? What if he sold/told every loan company and competitor of the companies I deal with and newspaper about those private details and they started contacting me - or you - based on that info ? Is that right ? It's essentially the same situation isn't it ?

ZEN

its not right, however ur contract is with the bank not the manager or the newspaper.

RicardoSmith

ZENER wrote:

OK for example my bank manager has acces to my account details and all the companies I pay for various services they provide, it's part of his job to have that info available to him. Does that mean everyone else is entitled to know it ? What if he sold/told every loan company and competitor of the companies I deal with and newspaper about those private details and they started contacting me - or you - based on that info ? Is that right ? It's essentially the same situation isn't it ?

ZEN

What happens if a jounalist find out that hes been ripping you off. What then. Would you not want to know?

ZENER

RicardoSmith wrote:

What happens if a jounalist find out that hes been ripping you off. What then. Would you not want to know?

??? . . . sorry but I fail to see the relavence of that statement. Are you saying Apple are wrong to want to keep product development details out of the public eye because it's sneaky in some way?

it worries me greatly quite frankly when a friendly apearing company has a free reign and can do no wrong when they are totally unethical like a wolf in sheeps cloathing. people deserve to know the truth dont they?

Fair enough but as a (self professed) PC user why did you not pick up on the link I posted above about Microsofts attempts to do the same and discuss your worries and love of your fellow man on the windows forum ?!
Why not post about the injustices in the 3rd world and American foriegn policy in the politics forum and put your obvious talents to better use.

I said it before and I'll say it again . . you are a troll.

lomb

ZENER wrote:

??? . . . sorry but I fail to see the relavence of that statement. Are you saying Apple are wrong to want to keep product development details out of the public eye because it's sneaky in some way?



Fair enough but as a (self professed) PC user why did you not pick up on the link I posted above about Microsofts attempts to do the same and discuss your worries and love of your fellow man on the windows forum ?!
Why not post about the injustices in the 3rd world and American foriegn policy in the politics forum and put your obvious talents to better use.

I said it before and I'll say it again . . you are a troll.

i believe everyone knows what ms are about, no need for me to add to it.
i am just stating an opinion that apple are the same as ms, most apple owners dont believe that but it is true. make of it what u will.

if apple want to protect trade secrets they should take that up with their employees. if they cant even control them who can they control? they should have no gripes with the journalists.
ive stated my opinion and will be adding no more to the mac forum as i have no intention of buying one anyway.

RicardoSmith

ZENER wrote:

??? . . . sorry but I fail to see the relavence of that statement. Are you saying Apple are wrong to want to keep product development details out of the public eye because it's sneaky in some way?...

The example you quoted was about a bank. But since you didn't respond to my question on that, I'll make it about Apple.

How about you're just to spend 4-10K on Apple equipment. Then a journalist reports that Apple is going to drop everything they are doing and take a left turn leaving all your equipment obsolete in 6 months. Would you like to know? Should they not report that? Obviously Apple wouldn't want it reported.

Not of any relevence. But heres a little story. http://www.hardocp.com/

ZENER

How about you're just to spend 4-10K on Apple equipment. Then a journalist reports that Apple is going to drop everything they are doing and take a left turn leaving all your equipment obsolete in 6 months. Would you like to know? Should they not report that? Obviously Apple wouldn't want it reported.

The point of this whole thread was whether or not the reporters should have access to that info in the first place and their right to protect and defend what is essentially industrial espionage, any number of questions and examples similar to yours could be posed to justify and validate your arguments just as I could present the opposite end of the spectrum with examples.

In answer to your specific question, yes I would want to know but what if the change in direction was needed to secure the company and jobs and this leak jeopardized that position and put off investors, is it still right to publish or allow such information to be freely printed, if you were an employee would you want that ??

I think the true point of this thread is about freedom of the press and not specifically Apple and perhaps should be discussed in some other forum.

ZEN

RicardoSmith

The point of the thread was to show that Apple is no "better" than other companies. I thought my links were better examples to be honest. Though no one commented on them. Kinda got side tracked on the freedom of the press though. I guess it depends if you are a customer, a worker or the company director etc. Each has their own agenda.

tonky

Agreed, Ricardo. But this is the Computer - Operating Systems - Mac forum.
This is surely a Business/Company/Leaks/Press issue and belongs elsewhere.
Smells of troll to me, posting a thread title like that around here.
Just my 2c worth.

flywheel

RicardoSmith wrote:

What does he mean by MS software is crap and his Mac "runs better" then?

well i just read that he's found his Mac runs better than any PC he's had.... but then he would be the best person to elaborate on his thoughts not me, but he didn't say "Apples software or hardware never has any problems" as you suggested

RicardoSmith wrote:

Each has their own agenda

good point, what's your own?

RicardoSmith

DubWireless wrote:

well i just read that he's found his Mac runs better than any PC he's had.... but then he would be the best person to elaborate on his thoughts not me, but he didn't say "Apples software or hardware never has any problems" as you suggested

good point, what's your own?

I dunno maybe you could read the thread instead of digging up old posts. The points have been made I'm not going to rehash them again. :cool:

flywheel

true - no need to rehash your misinterpretation again