Opinions Please.

DapperGent

Near the end of a $20 freezout on stars. I have about 10x BB which isn't great put my stack is pretty good in comparison to the rest of the field (most of the big stacks were at my table), there are 14 left next money bump up is for final table.

PokerStars Game #1199936992: Tournament #5121785, Hold'em No Limit - Level XI
(600/1200) - 2005/02/11 - 07:46:07 (ET)
Table '5121785 14' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: JstPly (15843 in chips)
Seat 2: brandotm (5120 in chips)
Seat 3: brazie420 (20242 in chips)
Seat 4: BestPpL (7795 in chips)
Seat 5: igor69 (34197 in chips)
Seat 6: DapperGent (13440 in chips)
Seat 8: Ono30 (30248 in chips)
Seat 9: QuickSilver (21312 in chips)
JstPly: posts the ante 75
brandotm: posts the ante 75
brazie420: posts the ante 75
BestPpL: posts the ante 75
igor69: posts the ante 75
DapperGent: posts the ante 75
Ono30: posts the ante 75
QuickSilver: posts the ante 75
Ono30: posts small blind 600
QuickSilver: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DapperGent [Qd Ac]
JstPly: calls 1200
brandotm: folds
brazie420: folds
BestPpL: raises 6520 to 7720 and is all-in
igor69: folds
DapperGent: calls 7720
Ono30: folds
QuickSilver: folds
JstPly: raises 8048 to 15768 and is all-in
DapperGent: calls 5645 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [Tc 3c 7c]
*** TURN *** [Tc 3c 7c] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [Tc 3c 7c 5h] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JstPly: shows [Kd Kh] (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
DapperGent: shows [Qd Ac] (a pair of Sevens)
JstPly collected 11290 from side pot
BestPpL: shows [Js Ah] (a pair of Sevens)
JstPly collected 25560 from main pot
brazie420 said, "nh"

The first call is a bit ropey but I had had some marginal indications that he was in gamble no lose mode (nothing solid though) also with the limp UTG the pot as it stood would have looked very tempting to anyone at or under 10x BB. I dunno though there's plenty of hands I'm behind. I felt at the time I had to call the reraise for 5K given what was in the middle. Again I'm not so sure now. If it was just the two of us it's an easy call unless he actually shows me bullets first, with the other stack already in my equity is probably not as good as I thought it was.

Anyway opinions and thoughts please!

[edit]Wish there hadn't been three clubs on the flop, it gave me hope![/edit]

Hectorjelly

Both Calls are ok, once you have half your stack in you cant fold, It wouldnt of made any difference but you should of raised all in rather than called in the 1st place , as you really dont want anyone else tagging along.

DeVore

I agree with HJ. As it happens, going all in wouldnt keep the Kings out. This is a horrible hand because there really isnt an obvious way out. When the flop comes all clubs and you are sitting there with the Ace its going to end up with you all in even if the kings DIDNT put you in preflop.

Could you drop the AQ to the first raise? I dont think so, it would be very tight play to drop it at that stage of the tournie when there are only 4 hands you have to fear. As I've said, post flop there is nothing can leverage you off the hand with the club draw.

As soon as I read the hand summary my first thought was "oh oh AQ"

DeV.

Shortstack

50:50 whether you drop it preflop. At the latter stages of a tournie someone limping with 10% of their stack UTG is going to set the alarm bells ringing. Not many players will make this reraise move in late stages of Stars tournaments unless they have a huge chip lead without having the goods, so I most likely would have got out the way here even after calling half my stack. I would say that in my experience in these that it is more than a 50% chance the reraiser has KK or AA in which case you do not have the odds to call. Given your position on the button you have 7 more hands before the blinds hit to get your money in with a better chance of doubling up.
This is not to say I haven't done exactly the same more than once and paid for it.
I have to agree with Dev + HJ that moving in is the best option if you are playing, as any time UTG has other than AA,KK or AK you will only end up playing against the short stack.
The only player here who may be worth playing AQ agaisnt at your table is Igor69 - he is very loose, he just donated 4 rebuys in 4 hands to me and then bust me in the freezeout when he called All in chasing a flush against my top set.
Another tip for MTT on Pokerstars. Until you know them, check the yearly TLB to see if any players at you table are on it. To get on it you need to be pretty good. Some to watch out for :

PurrofAces
Jennicide
Stealurmoney
TheBeat(Pete Giordano)
Hamman
Matt242
iamlucky
Ragde (WCOOP winner)
itsbutta
Robroy
Berkshire

They all play from $10 upwards. In rebuys they all can have anything if moving in preflop - call them with any pair or A10 up. Once the freezeout hits then preflop they only tend to move with strong hands. Post flop they will seize upon any weakness shown. If they bet out of position it is a good chance you are beat unless you have the nuts.
Also note that Jennicide's picture is actually her - I played her in the Bahamas.

dirkey_wynne

Ok, I've read as far as seeing your hole cards. Filth. Drop them at all costs. Just ask Muso.

DeVore

Spoken like a man in need of therapy... Cant sleep, AQ will get me....Cant sleep, AQ will get me.... ;p

DeV.

Hectorjelly

I actually didnt notice the limp upfront, silly me. I think this is a fold if the limper is unknown or decent, as AQ is not far enough ahead of the raisers possible range of hands to make it profitable to play against the limpers possible AA KK. Unless the limper is an idiot or is trying a really advanced move you are behind a lot of the time here. I think AQ should folded here, QQ AK are marginal. I could run some numbers if you wanted but Im pretty sure

DapperGent

Yeah not pushing is utterly terrible alright. A push might have folded an UTG limper with JJ, TT and possibly AK or QQ at the outside, never folding those cowboys though. Giving the big stacks pot odds of 2-1 on a call wasn't too clever either.

mewso

I tend to fold AQ to a raise. It's a raising hand not a calling hand imo but as it was the latter stages that does have a bearing.

DapperGent

Hectorjelly wrote:

I actually didnt notice the limp upfront, silly me. I think this is a fold if the limper is unknown or decent, as AQ is not far enough ahead of the raisers possible range of hands to make it profitable to play against the limpers possible AA KK.

That's the rub, didn't know him at all. His limp is what makes my play on this hand tough to call. This late in a tournament at a full table I think at UTG limper will have AA,KK,QQ or AK about 25% of the time. Or that's the figure my head puts on it which is atuned to the Fitz and VC rather than Stars which is far tighter than either.

Hectorjelly

musician wrote:

I tend to fold AQ to a raise. It's a raising hand not a calling hand imo but as it was the latter stages that does have a bearing.

So do I but I see so many people push with AQ regardless of the action before them that I wonder if Im doing something wrong sometimes (well not really).

I think with AQ if you are commited to the hand then a call preflop then raise on the turn or flop is much better than all in preflop, as you still get to see all 5 cards (which is what you want against a PP) and you might get AK to fold. If your against AA or KK then it really doesnt matter what you do.

The above is just theory really I tend to just fold AQ except against a late position raiser, and I really hate to be in that position. I actually much prefer AJ to AQ as its an easier hand to play IMO.

None of the above applies to the above hand as the stacks are so small that AQ is a really really good hand here, but unfortunately the utg limper ruins it.

karlh

once you called the first bet, yer all in regardless when the reraise comes around.

personally i would have folded it. as you say, you were in ok chip position to see a fewof flops or pick get a nice pair before throwing them in then

my2c.

DeVore

funny, I missed the UTG limp too... it does change things slightly but probably not a huge amount. I know people say they'd fold AQ but thats easy to say here and now
UTG limp + raiser means I would have seriously considered dropping it, though I cant put my hand on my heart and say I would have or not. Once that flop comes, you'd need a crowbar to get me off it.

DeV.

F Fiesta

Why fold AQ?

Hectorjelly

F Fiesta wrote:

Why fold AQ?

Because its crap! Depending on conditions it can be a good hand, ie playing at a table of begginers who play every hand, but the better players you play against the worse AQ is. If you come up against a good hand you are very likely to be dominated, and if your unlikely to be paid off with by a worse hand.

DeVore

Look at it this way, with a lot of action before or after the flop, can you imagine what they might turn over thats going to make you happy and for them NOT to have played stupidly?

I like AQ, dont get me wrong it beats picking up the blinds with 5,8o but it would be weird to get a lot of action preflop and be happy when you see the cards...
If you raise with it, will you be called by AJ... would you call a big raise with AJ under normal conditions?

If you call with it, what are you hoping he raised with? AJ? If you say "A pocket pair" then why do you want to be involved in a cointoss where you are a slight underdog?
If you say "KQ" wouldnt you later consider that player nuts to have raised big with KQ if they didnt have some pressurising reason to do so? If they had such a reason then you should probably have been aware of it (like a small stack that is about to be blinded soon and needs to find a hand). I wouldnt quite categorise it as "crap" but its a dodgy hand if played wrong. I often limp with it to mask its strength cos THEN you might get called by AJ/T on an A-high flop. Or KQ, QJ on a Q-High flop.

DeV.

F Fiesta

Hectorjelly wrote:

Because its crap! Depending on conditions it can be a good hand, ie playing at a table of begginers who play every hand, but the better players you play against the worse AQ is. If you come up against a good hand you are very likely to be dominated, and if your unlikely to be paid off with by a worse hand.

I still don't get it, probably because I'm practically new to the game etc.

If I saw AQ, I'd be delighted like...

DeVore

It *can* be a great hand, but it is at the bottom of the ladder of "premium hands".
I think thats what HJ meant by "crap"

DeV.

Iago

F Fiesta wrote:

I still don't get it, probably because I'm practically new to the game etc.

If I saw AQ, I'd be delighted like...

I hate AQ with a passion, I hate it more than I hate AQo but not quite as much as I hate AKo, and slightly less than I hate AJ and AJo.

As DeV says, it's a premium hand but not one that you're particularily comfortable having. It's enough of a tease to get you to commit to a pot just before it spends your money and leaves with the guy across the table...

give me 72o any day

[size=-12]this has nothing to do with the fact that I got knocked out in 11th last night on VC when AQ was called by A6 and beaten by a pair of 6's [/size]

bohsman

I hate every hand untill the chips are being moved in my direction, other than 64s of course because thats virtually guaranteed to be the nuts

Lafortezza

KQs < *

Tourneque

Theres a lot of good information posted above and I don't have much to add other than ... AK is a raising hand - not a calling hand...

AQ even less so.

'course, in this hand.... your chips were going in regardless

Lafortezza

AK is often a calling hand. Depending on chip stacks, stage of tournament, read on player and so on. AQ is just shíte.

Tourneque

haha... true enough

But as it's poker, everything is - 'it depends'

And while I will sometimes call with AK, .. I much prefer to be raising with it.