is it too expensive ?

leonlafrite

Is a 00 Bora with 23 k on the clock selling for 11950 is too expensive ?
It is a 1.4 16 V 75 HP, I will be getting it from a dealer.
it has for around 2500 € of extra, Factory fitted electric sun roof, 6 cd changer, side airbags...

Any views ?

lomb

its about right with the low miles and options, there was a nice focus in the for sale forum, 1.8 with leather and aircon 2002 with low miles and he was looking for 13

leonlafrite

Yes, Thanks. seen this but, I need a 5 door car and I do not want to pay road tax + insurance for a 1.8 car ...The bora price seems good

PauloMN

Too dear, €12k for a 5 year old under-powered saloon? Don't fall for the "it's loaded with options" line - the €2,500 of options the first owner put on it are now essentially worthless.

unkel

You can get a NEW 5 door almost identical car for only about €6k more*, so yes, €12k for that 5 year old car is extremely expensive

* VW Octavia

stratos

seems a bit dear to me ,are you trading in? or is it a cash deal. If it's a cash deal I would expect it to be way cheaper. I once knocked 3500 pounds off a 8500 car in a forecourt by bringing cash. It was a car I wasn't sure I wanted, so I set a price in my head it was worth to me, I got the readies and hit the forecourt. I was staggered when the guy without batting an eyelid said "yea ok" and then tripped over the door in his haste. It's amazing, talking about cash is one thing, them seeing it is another. Was a way sweet deal I'll never see another like it.

Fabritzo

The bora cames with side air bags as standard and has 4 doors. I'd say if you you get them to knock €1000 off the price you'd be doing well from a dealer. Has it got alloys?

unkel

stratos wrote:

I once knocked 3500 pounds off a 8500 car in a forecourt by bringing cash

My main man! Fair play to ya

Know your stuff and be tough...

I still can't come to terms with the impression I get that most Irish people just pay the forecourt prices

BrianD3

I agree that 12k is too dear. 2nd hand VWs are way overpriced anyway and in this case the dealer has probably marked up the price of the car even more due to the very low mileage. And I would actually be a little wary of a 00 car with such low mileage. It may have had a lot of short journeys with the engine never warming up properly (which is when the most wear happens) For instance, 50% of that 23k could have been done with the engine below normal operating temperature. Whereas with a 00 car that has done 50k of mainly long journeys, 5% of the mileage may have been done with the engine below operating temp. Low mileage and short journeys can also cause disproportionate wear to clutches, brakes and exhausts.

Also, as unkel says you can get a brand new Skoda (VW) Octavia for 6 or 7 k more. The Octavia is a better, newer car which is based on a MK5 Golf. Bora is based on MK4 Golf.

And of course, the 1.4 litre Bora is as slow as a snail - it only has 75 bhp in quite a heavy body. Reliability isn't as good as VW's reputation suggests. A 00 Renault Megane would be much cheaper thna 12k it also has a 1.4 litre engine but is far more spirghtly due to it developing 98 bhp. Reliability is not much different from VW.

BrianD3

lomb

BrianD3 wrote:

I agree that 12k is too dear. 2nd hand VWs are way overpriced anyway and in this case the dealer has probably marked up the price of the car even more due to the very low mileage. And I would actually be a little wary of a 00 car with such low mileage. It may have had a lot of short journeys with the engine never warming up properly (which is when the most wear happens) For instance, 50% of that 23k could have been done with the engine below normal operating temperature. Whereas with a 00 car that has done 50k of mainly long journeys, 5% of the mileage may have been done with the engine below operating temp. Low mileage and short journeys can also cause disproportionate wear to clutches, brakes and exhausts.

Also, as unkel says you can get a brand new Skoda (VW) Octavia for 6 or 7 k more. The Octavia is a better, newer car which is based on a MK5 Golf. Bora is based on MK4 Golf.

BrianD3

u guys are looking at the initial cash outlay. one instead needs to look at how much one loses after say 2-3 years and how easy it is to sell. in my experiance vws are unparalleled in resale values. a great car to buy new (we have bought 2 and i will probably buy another mkv one soon b4 moving onto some german heavy metal) or even used at 'the right money'

BrianD3

u guys are looking at the initial cash outlay. one instead needs to look at how much one loses after say 2-3 years and how easy it is to sell. in my experiance vws are unparalleled in resale values. a great car to buy new (we have bought 2 and i will probably buy another mkv one soon b4 moving onto some german heavy metal) or even used at 'the right money'

Well the Bora is now an outdated, obsolete vehicle - I know it is still on sale but how long before there's a Mk5 Bora? 12k for an obsolete 5 year old car is silly money. 2nd hand Bora values still have a way to drop if 12k is the going rate for a 00. How much are VW Ventos going for these days - not a lot. Within a couple of years, the Bora will be in the same position as the Vento is in now i.e unfashionable, cheap, and not that easy to sell.

BrianD3

lomb

BrianD3 wrote:

Well the Bora is now an outdated, obsolete vehicle - I know it is still on sale but how long before there's a Mk5 Bora? 12k for an obsolete 5 year old car is silly money. 2nd hand Bora values still have a way to drop if 12k is the going rate for a 00. How much are VW Ventos going for these days - not a lot. Within a couple of years, the Bora will be in the same position as the Vento is in now i.e unfashionable, cheap, and not that easy to sell.

BrianD3

ur probably right brian, i personally wouldnt buy a bora as the depreciaton potential is hugh but would buy a mkiv golf

bazz26

12k for a 5 year old Boring is silly. Buy yourself a Focus or Octavia for that kind of money. Both cars are better equipped, better value for money and just if not more reliable.

PauloMN

Couple of further points worth noting:

1) There's '00 Boras from €8500 on carzone.ie, expect a cash discount also off dealer prices. Take a good look around before parting with €12k for a 5 year old one.
2) VW resale values look good when compared with rivals from Ford, Opel etc. It is important to look at these in relative terms however. A new VW Golf with similar spec to an Astra or Focus will have initially set you back a couple of thousand hard earned euros more in the first place. Example: new 1.6 5 door Golf without alloys, air con is almost €22.5k (that's the 102bhp, not even the FSi). Focus 1.6LX comes in at €21k, 1500 quid cheaper - without doubt you'll get a better cash discount from the Ford dealer also. Start adding the likes of air con to the Golf and it just gets silly (another €1500 minimum please). So of course the 2nd hand values will be higher - they ought to be considering the initial outlay.
3) The 1.4 engine is too low on power for that car - to the point of being dangerous in my opinion. If you are going to be doing any level of driving outside of towns/cities, I'd seriously think twice about that 1.4 in a Bora.

unkel

PauloMN wrote:

3) The 1.4 engine is too low on power for that car - to the point of being dangerous in my opinion. If you are going to be doing any level of driving outside of towns/cities, I'd seriously think twice about that 1.4 in a Bora.

I agree with most of your points and wouldn't advice the 1.4 for driving on national roads with 5 adults and luggage

To put things into perspective though, the 1.4 in the Bora or Octavia does 0-100 in about 15 seconds. Most 1.0 superminis are a good bit slower than this. Most 1.6 family saloons are only 1-2 seconds quicker

ubu

i can sell you a 02d focus 1.4lx with 40k on the clock for 12k if your interested!

$lash

You would pick up a very nice Alfa 156 1.6 for that money...

Borzoi

leonlafrite wrote:

Is a 00 Bora with 23 k on the clock selling for 11950 is too expensive ?

I'm suspicious about the low mileage, is there a service history with mileage stamps for the last few years?

ambro25

unkel wrote:

I still can't come to terms with the impression I get that most Irish people just pay the forecourt prices

You mean one can still get discounts for buying cars cash in this country? :eek:

Last two occasions I tried that on, in the UK, I got sweet FA, because the dealers are getting a better profit from flogging finance deals than the cars themselves...

leonlafrite

Thank you all for the helpfull and constructive feedback.
However, I have decided to buy this car based on the following grounds :

- I do not plan to buy another car for at least the next 5 years.
- I just need a car for Dublin only (will use the car to go on Week End in the country only 2/3 times year )
- I do not want to go to a garage every second day.
- I need a safe car for my baby girl.
- The garage is taking my 00 cordoba (with 55 K) for 5250 which is more than any othere ones.
- My wife will drive the car mainly so it is not too big (octavia).

Thank you all.

comanche

leonlafrite wrote:

Thank you all for the helpfull and constructive feedback.
However, I have decided to buy this car based on the following grounds :

- I do not plan to buy another car for at least the next 5 years.
- I just need a car for Dublin only (will use the car to go on Week End in the country only 2/3 times year )
- I do not want to go to a garage every second day.
- I need a safe car for my baby girl.
- The garage is taking my 00 cordoba (with 55 K) for 5250 which is more than any othere ones.
- My wife will drive the car mainly so it is not too big (octavia).

Thank you all.

hang on you are about to trade in a 00 for a 00 and pay the over 5 grand for the privlage of driving a car with 40k less miles - i don't get it?

I personally wouldn't go for what you are being offered - the car is under powered for a 1.4 and on top of that its either been clocked or has not been driven enough.

If you are looking for a safer car (have a look at the ncap to see how cars fair out http://www.euroncap.com/) then fair enough I see why you might go for the bora, but I would for something with average milage and a full service history.

bazz26

leonlafrite wrote:

Thank you all for the helpfull and constructive feedback.
However, I have decided to buy this car based on the following grounds :

- I do not plan to buy another car for at least the next 5 years. So the car you have just bought will be 10 years.
- I just need a car for Dublin only (will use the car to go on Week End in the country only 2/3 times year )
- I do not want to go to a garage every second day. VW reliabilty is only average these days, a 5 year old one is not going to get any more reliable because it is 5 years old.
- I need a safe car for my baby girl. 1.4 only has 75 bhp, dangerously slow for overtaking.
- The garage is taking my 00 cordoba (with 55 K) for 5250 which is more than any othere ones. The others may not be charging €12k for a 5 year old Bora, what they added to your car is more than added to the price of the Bora, it is more than likely costing you a fortune.
- My wife will drive the car mainly so it is not too big (octavia). Ocatvia bigger than a Bora, not the last I looked.

Thank you all.

Ah well, your choice.

$Leon$

00 cordoba + €6750 = 00 bora

u mad? der prob da same engine (check da engine codes)

PauloMN

This is a case-in-point as to how car dealers can survive in Ireland even in a market flooded with 2nd hand cars.

leonlafrite - hope you are happy with the car, but I do think it's not a good deal, especially with the trade-in scenario you've outlined. The better deal you appear to be getting for your Cordoba is more than being offset by the fact that they are charging you around €2 to €2.5k over the odds for the Bora.

It amazes me how much Irish people are willing to pay to avoid the hassle of searching out a better deal. If there's any way to make money in Ireland, this is it - charging people to avoid hassle.

Tobias Greeshman

That Bora is way overpriced, Its really should be within the €8000 - €10000 price range, dealers tend to rip off people anyway. I know dealers offering my car for about €1500 more than I paid for it.

bazz26

There is a poxy dealer out there paying for his next holiday in the Bahamas from the profit of this deal.