sportier classic

Paul (MN) · 21-01-2005 1:26pm #1

Hi all,

As some of you may know I have a 1984 Merc W123 T (estate), which I like alot.

Anyway I'm pretty much hooked on the idea of buying older cars (not necessarily classics over 30) for not much money.

I'm thinking ahead to my next car and have a short list so far of:

- W114/W115 version of my current car, saloon i.e. pre 75 merc saloon
- a 230 or 208 coupe of the W123

I have a feeling that I would like somethingmaybe a bit "sportier", but not necessarily a sports car.

The reason I like the Merc is that it looks like a classic, is in good condition (I'm mechanically inept) and is fairly cheap to run.

Any ideas on a "sportier" car I could go for that would be have similar characteristics. I'm looking for a fairly painless ownership experience.

I'm thinking along the lines of a coupe something or other. I can't go for real classic sports cars for budget reasons.

I've always liked the Audi Quattro, but these are probably rare. I need something that can be put back on the road cheaply and quickly if something goes worng.

Any ideas that I can statr researching/thinking about?

Interceptor · 21-01-2005 1:41pm

Triumph Stag? Jag MkII? Daimler Dart SP250? Give more info - are you going to use it every day and do you need to carry kids and dogs? What is your budget - Fiat X1/9 or Lamborghini Espada? The Audi Quattro isn't that rare, but it isn't that 'classic' either - the Pug 205gti is often featured in classic mags but I don't think it has earned that place yet. I have a really nice '83 Corolla hatchback I can sell you for cheap...

'c

AlienGav · 21-01-2005 1:56pm

I've always liked the old MGs, a fairly cheap classic, and dam shexay too!

http://www.classic-british-cars.com/mg-midget-pictures.html

Paul (MN) · 21-01-2005 2:14pm

Yes I use the Merc as a daily driver. About 12k/year.

I don't need much space but it would have to be a 2+2 as a minimum for the odd time.

Budget, at a guess next time round it might be to spend 5-7k. I can import a mice W114/W115 merc from the continent for that, in good condition.

It doesn't have to be a "classic".

I don't know if I have the resources/time/money to get something that would need constant work, major money injection if something went wrong.

The Merc 230/280 CE is ideal. Easy mechanicals, reliable, it's coupe but cheap enough to run.

I guess I'm wondering is there anything else similar?

I nearly bought an MGB GT once, but I've kindof gone off them as they are really cramped for the +2. I would like to be able to carry the fam in occasionally.

bazz26 · 21-01-2005 2:28pm

Ford Capri Ghia...

alastair · 21-01-2005 2:29pm

A BMW 2002?

Paul (MN) · 21-01-2005 2:32pm

both excellent suggestions, and both cars I have had in the back of my mind for a while.

I have a slight problem with the image of a Capri.

Does anyone have any experiece of running a 2002. I really am looking for something reliable, and with reasonably low running costs.

unkel · 21-01-2005 3:13pm

Paul (MN) wrote:

The Merc 230/280 CE is ideal. Easy mechanicals, reliable, it's coupe but cheap enough to run.

Hard to find and very expensive to buy. How about a 635CSI?

Paul (MN) · 21-01-2005 3:32pm

unkel,

there seems to be a good supply of cars from the continent. I dont' mind a LHD as I'm on dual-lane most of the time.

I would love to have a 635 car, or similar but I suspect we are talking large purchse price and high running costs.

The aim is to have something different, and nice, while minimising expenditure

I don't want to buy something, and have to spend 1-2k to keep it on the road after a year. I would prefer to pay for something in good condition in the first place.

This means my relatively low budget of 5-7k, will not stretch to exotica.

I would consider a 635 to be exotic? no?

ambro25 · 21-01-2005 4:54pm

I always said I wouldn't have another, but it's not for me, so...

If you don't mind LHD, want classic looks, cheap to buy & run: FIAT 124 Coupe Sport (blue one, 'BA 124' reg, below).

Fiat%20124%20coupe%20and%20Alfa%202600.JPG.jpg

Fiat%20124%20coupe%20and%20Alfa%202600.JPG.jpg

You'd have to make sure it's this late-60s model with the round headlights, not the later one which all squarish and horrible. Also, with these, it's a bit like the UK MGs with chrome vs the US MGs with plastic, the early ones have chrome bumpers, wheeltrims etc.

My dad had one for 3-4 years, had it resprayed Ferrari red - gorgeous thing, with walnut dash & wheel, piqued black leather seats...

mike65 · 21-01-2005 4:57pm

Steer well clear of an old 6 series. Not that they arent great (I'd love one!) but a good example will set you back prolly 10,000-12,000 and with at least a 2.8 engine the road tax is a bugger too. A cheap one ie 2-3000 would be a sleek money pit.

I think you're already one the rights lines vis a vis the Merc, that said a gleaming late period Rover p6 V8 (elderly owner since new) with classic tax might be nice.

Or if you fancy a slight risk (mainly rust and electrics) a lateish Rover SD1 3500 but high tax.

Mike.

Alfasudcrazy · 21-01-2005 7:34pm

The BMW 2002 would be my recommendation as well

BrianD3 · 21-01-2005 7:51pm

It's quite a difficult question to answer actually. As you're probably well aware, most people who are into old cars will do some/a lot of mechanical work on the cars themselves and it's all part of the fun. But if you're mechanically inept and have to bring the car to a garage everytime something small needs fixing it's not fun at all.

TBH I'd say you may have been "spoiled" by your Merc W123. These cars are legendary for their reliability and longevity. Your car probably gives about the same amount of trouble as a 2 year old Corolla. This certainly wouldn't be the case for most 20 year old cars!

So knowing this, I'd say your on the right track to be considering the Merc W114/115 or W123 CE. Also what about the W116 S-class. IIRC these can suffer from suspension/steering problems and are more prone to rust than other Mercs. But if you sought out a nice one it could be a good bet. Choice of engines from 2.8 litre six pot to 6.9 :eek::D litre V8

BrianD3

lomb · 21-01-2005 8:16pm

def stear clear of the very old s classes. total money pits. suspension can cause hugh grief.
if u want a nice car go for a 97 s320 but hardly a classic and u wont run one on hay peannies

stratos · 21-01-2005 9:42pm

Yes I'd have to say the 2002, though like a macdonalds floor, slippery when wet. An unusual choice might the Opel manta s , The manta ray version. Very reliable. can be sourced in U.K. and very rare In Ireland. It's not like the big tail sliding manta derived from the rep mobiles. In my experience a lot of the british sports cars whilst great fun, need a lot of attention. Or how about Triumph herald, or Dolomite sprint. FinallyReliant Scimitar gte, they are reliable sporting and a hatchback to boot (pun intended).

unkel · 21-01-2005 10:07pm

Paul (MN) wrote:

there seems to be a good supply of cars from the continent

Ah missed that the first time, in that case a CE (W123) is a good choice

Take BrianD3's advice though about not doing any work yourself. For this reason I wouldn't touch anything British either

Kinda cool as well a CE and a T on your drive :cool:

Or how about this, have you a garage? If so then pay next to nothing for tax and insurance, never go to the nct and get an appreciating asset like this beaut

unkel · 21-01-2005 10:21pm

Feck just saw this

£2980 + about €1000 in VRT. RHD so easy to sell again

linkylink

Alfasudcrazy · 21-01-2005 10:44pm

WOW - thats an amazing Merc 280 - does not say what year though - is it old enough for classic car tax? :eek:

shagman · 21-01-2005 11:17pm

I was in a fairly similar position to you minus the mechanically inept bit.
I allready have a classic '79 Chevy G30 campervan that I'm busy restoring / customising as a 70's passion wagon style custom van

.
My daily driver was my Dads Toyota Crapolla :mad: so I needed a daily driver that would be reliable yet not make me want to retch (that means a classic in my mind).
I went for a Reliant Scimitar GTE overdrive, fireglass body less rust to worry about ,ford essex 3 litre engine simple to work on and was a common engine in it's day ..capri ,granada etc any decent mechanic can fix it I'd say. Sporty OH YES INDEED , practical - it's an estate, relatively good fuel economy with overdrive 25-30 mpg. Bad points: as with any classic you have to know what to look for to buy a good one. You seem to like mercs and bmws so might not be your taste . I'd recommend starting to buy "practical classics" magazine from Easons or elsewhere you'll get plenty of info there on the type of machine you're after. Good Luck hope you find a gem!

lomb · 21-01-2005 11:19pm

how much is the blue merc unkel? SEXY

shagman · 21-01-2005 11:21pm

Oh Yeah a photo might be handy...

unkel · 22-01-2005 12:08am

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

WOW - thats an amazing Merc 280 - does not say what year though - is it old enough for classic car tax? :eek:

Which one? The W123 one for sale is probably around the 1980 mark, not old enough yet for classic tax afaik (is it 30 years?)

lomb wrote:

how much is the blue merc unkel? SEXY

Saw it on some Japanese website. I don't think it's for sale. Indeed stunning beautiful car in unbelievable condition

stratos · 22-01-2005 1:19am

Shagman those pictures bring back some good memories.

. Those motoring posters circa the 70's wer'e way out there weren't they. I personaly love the B.L. , Triumph, Rover ones. Blondes aircraft beaches, rockets.

bazz26 · 22-01-2005 2:14am

stratos · 22-01-2005 2:25am

One or 2 nice things in there Bazz. I can't help think most of the prices are way off. You could buy 'em dirt cheap in U.K. Well not all of them.

stratos · 22-01-2005 2:29am

My classic cost me 1300 stg and 750e vrt lets call that 3000e. An Identical model (same colour even) is for sale here for 8000 e. I find some of the prices here just way off classic or not.

BrianD3 · 22-01-2005 12:09pm

Another one to consider could be a nice SAAB 900 turbo.

BrianD3

AlienGav · 22-01-2005 12:22pm

What about a triumph herald??

http://www.linzgt6.demon.co.uk/triumphherald.htm

My dadd had one years ago, thought it was the mutt's nuts

lomb · 22-01-2005 1:54pm

stratos wrote:

My classic cost me 1300 stg and 750e vrt lets call that 3000e. An Identical model (same colour even) is for sale here for 8000 e. I find some of the prices here just way off classic or not.

prices are way off. i reakon though many sellers only want to sell if they can achieve a 'certain' price which is usually 25% more than its worth regardless of anything

lomb · 22-01-2005 1:56pm

shagman wrote:

Oh Yeah a photo might be handy...

nice ad makes me want to just go out and buy one. are they any good though?

stratos · 22-01-2005 2:34pm

They did have a propensity for going on fire. Princess anne had one !

shagman · 23-01-2005 12:56am

GOING ON FIRE :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Seems that a lot survived if they had a propensity for going on fire?
I've heard this of other classics with tanks mounted in stupid places like behind the lights etc but not the scimitar.Where did you get the info from as I'd like to know the reasons behind it and make appropriate precautions. I've actually bought two one to drive while I'm restoring the other

so at least I have a spare. The better one allready has had a stainless steel tank added.
Princess Anne had 7 of them (probably free from reliant) they were quite popular amongst the horsey set as they are great tow vehicles ,being both light and torquey. One of the actors from Lock Stock has one and was raving about it in a stars and their cars interview in the Sunday Times a little while back .Thats what kinda convinced me go go with one actually. Was also considering volvo p1800 / p1800es , datsun 240Z , early toyota celica , opel gt 1900 or to hell with fuel economy alltogether and get a Jenson interceptor FF!!!! Just spotted a mark 3 one in buy and sell today :cool:

shagman · 23-01-2005 1:13am

I lifted the following from an owners website which has some usefull stuff on maintenance problems encountered etc.
The way I went about narrowing down what I want is
1:Think of what kind of general shape of cars you like best curvy, boxy, gt, hatchback ....whatever floats your boat .
2: list all the cars you can think of that fall into that style then research a bit and find some more.
3 figure out the tech specs that are important to you. And throw out the ones that don't meet them.
that should help narrow it down then just go by price condition and cost / ease of servicing/repair.

Damn I might have to spray mine orange niiice....

The Scimitar was the first car to introduce the idea of separate folding rear seat-backs, allowing the owner to change the carrying capacity, between four-seats plus a reasonable amount of luggage, three seats and more luggage, or two seats and a large carrying capacity, all accessible through the rear top-hinged glass tailgate, supported on gas-struts. They are built on a very strong steel backbone chassis, with glass-reinforced-plastic bodywork, and together with a very torquey engine, the Scimitar is a very strong and long lasting vehicle. A very high percentage of the Scimitars built are still in regular use, having achieved very high mileages in the meantime. The Scimitar also has an advanced suspension design (unequal-length wishbones at the front, six-link rear with Watts linkage, coil-springs all round), traditional rear-drive layout, excellent weight distribution (helped by theV6 engine being set well back in the chassis). This makes a car that is both fun to drive on twisty A roads, and still capable of travelling extremely long distances at sustained high speeds. The relatively simple design & construction of the car make the Scimitar relatively easy to repair by the home mechanic without need for special tools. These are the reasons that I chose my Scimitar and as I have done everything on the restoration myself I think this just goes to show that they must be easy to work on..

Engine 138 bhp

Brakes 3 pot Girling / Lockheed calipers front. Drums rear.

Gearbox 4 speed plus overdrive, 4 speed close ratio with higher ratio rear differential. Borg Wagner type 35 3 speed Auto or Ford C3 3 speed auto (Late SE5A's).

Front suspension Coil over damper double wishbone from TR6, trunnion bearing and ball joint steering pivot, anti-roll bar.

Rear suspension Salisbury live rear longitudinal location rods with Watts linkage arrangement for lateral position, and coil over damper units.

Performance
0-60 mph - 8.9 secs
Standing 1/4 mile - 16.7 secs
Fuel economy Normal driving: 21 mpg ,Motorway 26 mpg
Dimensions
Width 5 feet 4 1/2 inches
Height 4 feet 2 1/2 inches
Length 14 feet 2 inches
Weight (dry) 1011kg

Optional extras Electric windows, Webasto sunroof, Leather interior.

Merrion · 23-01-2005 9:49am

Get a Triumph TR5 ...a soft top car that a man looks good in.

stratos · 23-01-2005 1:43pm

Don't worry Shagman. I read about the fire thing in a magazine, It Didn't say why. It did however say it's not a problem anymore as any surviving cars have had the problem fixed. With all it oily bits stamped ford it's a bullet proof classic. practical and a beauty too.

shagman · 23-01-2005 10:05pm

Cheers Stratos but I think I found what it is/was ....the fuel supply line going into the carb sometimes worked loose -- leaking petrol=BBQ. The fix was a simple split pin nut affair..... can't think of an easier fix to such a potentially serious problem!

BTW do you actually own a stratos??
The wickedest car in all the world.
A mate has a Lancia Beta Spider with a 2ltr volumex supercharged engine for sale at the mo if you're interested. Not a rust bucket but does need a bit of work, can't remember what price he wanted but it's under 3K i think. Not pre 75 though....thats why I didn't get it.

unkel · 23-01-2005 10:56pm

shagman wrote:

do you actually own a stratos??
The wickedest car in all the world

But better known as:

shagman · 24-01-2005 1:17am

Y'know when you were bought a remote control car as a kid in the 70's and you opened it and there was a bleedin big WIRE connecting the car to the controller!!!!! Well I still loved mine despite that cos it was one of these.....

Carefull you're drooling on your keyboard there.

Dades · 24-01-2005 3:04pm

I'm in the process of finding a Fiat 124 Spider in the US to import.

The prices there are great with the dollar. Similar models for sale in the UK have gone for twice the price.

They were first made in '66 so you can bring one in free of VRT and also get tax exemption etc.

G'luck!

ambro25 · 24-01-2005 3:07pm

Not quite the same as the 124 Coupe Sport I posted earlier (those US converts have the black plastic bumpers'n bits), but nice motors all the same.

Paul (MN) · 24-01-2005 3:43pm

Thanks for the replies.

BrianD3,

You are probably right. I really need to stick to something reliable, or at least with an extensive, and recent, service history. If I "upgraded" to a W123 CE I would like it to be a really clean example. I wouldn't mind a 230CE, perhaps an auto.

Not keen on a SAAB 900.

unkel,

I wouldn't have a T and CE on the drive at the same time! The T would be sold. I'm hoping it retains most of it's value, to fund the next purchase.

That blue W114/W115 is certainly nice and I would love it. But it would have to have had headrests fitted, and power steering! Not all models do.

AlienGav,

Triumph Herald? Nah!

Looking at the 2002, there is the Tii and the Tii Turbo. Are the Turbo's rare/expensive and are they difficult/expensive to maintain? A Tii would sui tme fine though.

Nukem · 25-01-2005 12:44am

Damn what classic car

Triumph Stag/Vites
Citreon 2cv (love them)
AC cobra (drool)
Humber minx (with an overdrive gearbox - dad had one years ago loved it)
golfs MkI and beetles I

Could be here for a while

ambro25 · 25-01-2005 8:10am

Citroën DS convertible - the Most Beautiful Car in the WorldTM

MX-5 1.6 Turbo - classic in the making, but already extremely hard to find in good nick/unabused, VRT down to minimum payable (€350, is it?)

Anything imported from California, but especially a Camaro SS '67/'68

PaulK_CCI · 26-01-2005 12:28pm

An interesting sporty, good looking, practical Classic that I have just managed to get my hands on, which would be perfect for the cars refered to in this thread:

A Datsun 240Z!

Beautiful styling, Ultra reliable Nissan 2,4 litre straight six with 150bhp in a light rear wheel drive 2 seater sports car.
Very reliable mechanics and with the hatch door at the back you have plenty of space to bring 'stuff'.
All parts can still be ordered and the mechanics of the car are very simple
and easy to maintain.

The particular car I'm getting in is a 1974 lhd example (the last of the
240Z series until the 260Z 2+2 came out and ruined the pure design of the 2 seater) in original Nissan Red with original Nissan Alloys. The car was nut and
bolt restored, including a full engine and gearbox overhaul in 1999, still fresh and driven only little miles since. Photographic history of the very extensive restoration comes with the car.

Contact me for more details.
Here is a picture of another 240Z, because I havent got any pictures of the actual car yet. Think away the enormous front spoiler and the minilites because they're non-standard, but I must admit they do look the part on the car.

mike65 · 26-01-2005 6:45pm

Hi Paul,

I take it that Classic Cars Ireland is your site. If so, its nice but needs updating a bit via-a-vis Benefits page and NCT. Also on the insurance front
carolnash will offer cover for cars over 20 years old.

Mike.

ps the Datsun is sex on wheels!

stratos · 27-01-2005 1:20am

Saw a beautiful 240Z in silver down the country last summer, I almost ran off the road looking at it. I presume it too was restored, as how they rotted.

stratos · 27-01-2005 1:25am

No sorry Shagman wish I did own a Stratos. I sat in once, is as close as I came. The nearest I have at the mo is my Tr7 ( Looks a bit like a Stratos from a certain angle far far away).

shagman · 27-01-2005 1:48am

Ah well Stratos if you're gonna dream ...dream BIG!!!

I believe there is one in Ireland though in alitalia colours n'all there was one on show at the west cork rally a few years ago.

Paul , how much are you looking for the 240Z one of the cars I was considering the opel gt 1900 is fairly practical too you still got that? Was outta my price range unfortunatly.Post up a piccie and show folks.... yiz won't believe it's an opel!!!!

stratos · 27-01-2005 2:38am

trying to boot up my memory banks the Opel gt, did it look like a mini corvette ? Seem to remember a curvey Opel.

PaulK_CCI · 27-01-2005 9:54am

Mike: you're absolutely right. Some pages on my website are unfortunately rather dated, simply because I'm having trouble enough keeping the cars up to date as it is... So, if you're volunteering to help me, I'm not going to say no, of course

Regarding insurance, some companies do 20 years, others 25 years. Unfortunately there is still not a lot of choice around...

Shagman: the "Z" will be approx 7-7,5k on Irish plates (so that includes ALL costs, including a full service) depending on the deal I'm going to end up with.

Correct Stratos. The Opel GT was the "mini-corvette"...
Here's a pic of an Opel GT:

alastair · 27-01-2005 11:57am

I see that Peter O'Kennedy (ex Golden Horde drummer, and maker of art with cars, amongst other things) is driving a nice looking, and muscle sounding LHD 240Z that's obviously a US import. It's gold and I spotted it coming out of dame lane last week. If I'm not mistaken he used to have a Citroen Masarati before this. Nice.

sportier classic

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