Battlestar Galactica, episode 12: "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part One"

Fenster

I'm looking forward to this to see how Helo/Boomer plays out, not to mention that this is the second "remake" (I use it lightly after The Hand of God) of an original Galactica episode. This is also the first part of the series finale-the last episode we'll see for the next six months or so will be aired next week. Ratings from the US airings were said to be pretty high though, so a second series looks likely, although as Aaron Douglas (Tyrol) pointed out in a posting on another board, the airings came in a blaze of publicity and they expect a drop next week.

Oh, and after gripings by some that Andromeda is actually halfway watchable, I changed the poll slightly for tonight.

sutty

It was okay...

Ok, just finished watching it there. All I have to say is WTF!

What an odd ep. But I cant wait for the next one!!!!!

The Free Man

Feckin great.......
BSG is the only series ever to make me say wtf at the end of each episode!

secret_squirrel

It was okay...

Class episode...has the first series of a scifi show ever been this consistently good.

Loved the classical music in the first few scenes.

Mananged to jam so many bits and pieces into that ep I dont know where to start..

Gaius and Starbuck gettting it on..
Starbuck wanting Apollo.
Boomer blowing her brains out (not)
El Prez coming over all mystical again.
Gaius going looper again.
Nice lying father (Adama) to loyal daughter (Starbuck) scene.

Im going to explode waiting for next week. Whats the betting that Starbuck and Helo meet up???

JustHalf

It was quite good. It felt like it was more of the first half of a 90 minute episode than an episode in its own right.

Stark

It was great!

I liked it a lot. I can see next week getting interesting if Starbuck meets up with Helo and discovers Boomer is a Cylon. Also, so close to Earth

And it was so cool when the Rafters jumped into orbit above Kobol only to have all the cylon raiders appear.

MisterAnarchy

It was okay...

The first 3/4 of the episode was brilliant but it was let down badly by prophecy malarky at the end.
Alot of holes beginning to appear.
2000 years is not enough time for Legends of Kobol.
Its too short especially as the tribes would have needed space ships to leave the planet.
The past would have to be recorded accurately.
How did Apollo know about Starbuks fling with Baltar ?
Also I noticed that the population of the remaining humans has gone up to 93,000 according to the sheet in the Presidents office.
How can the Cylons foresee the future ?
Still the best show on tv though.
What are we going to do until a new series.
If this isnt renewed by NBC/Sky I will put up my own money !!

Steven999

It was okay...

Quite liked the episode .

Forgot that everyone in the fleet assumed that they were on their way to Earth . Starbuck's reaction shows how they would react if they ever found out that they were lied to .

Something thats on my mind is the fact that Gaius was told by Six to be on the raptor patrol in order to be safe but then was attacked at Kobol which she must of known would happen (she's still in touch with the Cylon's even though the Cylon's dont know about him + her ). i wonder has she decided to get rid of him ?.

And another thing about Gaius . His personality seems to be going through a change . 1) he seems to be falling in love (odd for him) . 2) he seemed to care what happened to Boomer ( human feeling isn't the usual thing for him) . 3) All these things that are happening are making him act even more strangely when he's in a group and Six is nattering away in his ear .

Overall he seems to be losing it..........but maybe that's just love or something............ :rolleyes:

ixoy

It was okay...

Very good. I'm holding off on an "Amazing" until I see Part 2. Like the way they're tying all the plots in:

Points:

* Yay! A base star! And how cool was that scene where they're crashing towards earth?

* GalacticaBoomer's struggle is interesting and what will others think of it? I also wonder if we'll see exactly why GalacticaBoomer was not revealed by Baltar.

* CapricaBoomer tried to tell Helo that he "didn't understand" about how the models work. Is there some element we don't know? Is it possible that the Cylon models copy the soul, or somesuch, of an original human? There's clearly more to the models. And, given Six has described the Boomer model as "weak", are they trying to evolve our souls?

* Starbuck fancies Lee - hmmm...

* What the hell's going to happen to the Galactica?!?!

It was great!

Great stuff.
I thought my eyes were deceiving me with what Starbuck was at... till She shouted Lee.

I'd agree with what was said already, it did feel like a dive into a good film and now we have to wait for the rest of it and then for the next series

By the way didn't Gaius say Oh my God and not oh my Gods? (a cylon trait) when they were crashing into that planet/Kobol-Or am I reading too much into this

Stark

It was great!

How did Apollo know about Starbuks fling with Baltar ?

I reckon he saw her leaving with him after the dance and/or he got the hint during that little scene in the gambling room.

How can the Cylons foresee the future ?

2 possibilities. They're blindly trust the prophecy or they have some way of carrying information/memories over between iterations of the "story".

Fenster

It was great!

Stark wrote:

I reckon he saw her leaving with him after the dance and/or he got the hint during that little scene in the gambling room.



2 possibilities. They're blindly trust the prophecy or they have some way of carrying information/memories over between iterations of the "story".

Hint? I thought it was pretty fracking blatant what happened. But that's me.

Steven

More and more every week, I am beginning to doubt the whole prophecy thing. So far, everything prophecy related has been directly influenced by cylon intervention in some form except for Laura roslins visions. If it turns out that she is in fact a cylon, or has been heavily influenced by one, then the whole prophecy thing will go straight out the window and it's just one big game orchestrated by the cylons utilising some bastardised version of their most popular (and possibly only) religion.

Also, it would appear that Helo doesn't quite realise that all the Boomers are cylons, so there's plenty of room to manouevre there.

Of course, if it does go all mystical on us I'll still love it .

Gaius was told by Six to be on the raptor patrol in order to be safe but then was attacked at Kobol which she must of known would happen

Seems like she wants him on the planet for some reason.

he (Gaius) seemed to care what happened to Boomer ( human feeling isn't the usual thing for him)

He hardly broke stride when he heard the shot go off in her room. Hardly seems like the traditional humanitarian to me.

Hint? I thought it was pretty fracking blatant what happened. But that's me.

Amen to that, Fenster.

By the way didn't Gaius say Oh my God and not oh my Gods? (a cylon trait) when they were crashing into that planet

Well spotted.

Fenster

It was great!

The whole scene after the raptors jumped was great-here's to hoping Crashdown survives.

MisterAnarchy

It was okay...

More and more every week, I am beginning to doubt the whole prophecy thing. So far, everything prophecy related has been directly influenced by cylon intervention in some form except for Laura roslins visions

Agreed I feel the same

Stark

It was great!

Steven wrote:

More and more every week, I am beginning to doubt the whole prophecy thing. So far, everything prophecy related has been directly influenced by cylon intervention in some form except for Laura roslins visions. If it turns out that she is in fact a cylon, or has been heavily influenced by one, then the whole prophecy thing will go straight out the window and it's just one big game orchestrated by the cylons utilising some bastardised version of their most popular (and possibly only) religion.

Steven wrote:

Gaius was told by Six to be on the raptor patrol in order to be safe but then was attacked at Kobol which she must of known would happen

Seems like she wants him on the planet for some reason.

Aha, if Six wants him on the planet then that must mean she had foreknowledge that the craft would land safely.

Steven

Not necessarily. The extent of the cylons communication with each other is by no means obvious. It's possible that she had no knowledge of the basestars arrival at Kobol and sent him to the planet for some other purpose. It's also possible that she wants him dead for his feelings towards starbuck.

However, I like to keep a completely open mind when it comes to these things so I'm not ruling out the prophecies validity, but the cylon orchestration storyline would be my preference.

There also exists a possibility in which they are able to predict events a short time in advance due to a rudimentary grasp of chaos theory (calculated by god and distributed to the other cylons?).

I guess we'll find out in season 2 *crosses fingers*

Sooner or Later

It was great!

Definitely one of the best episodes so far.

It's almost inevitable that Starbuck will run into Helo on Caprica.

Can't wait for next week's finale.

Fenster

It was great!

Steven wrote:

Not necessarily. The extent of the cylons communication with each other is by no means obvious. It's possible that she had no knowledge of the basestars arrival at Kobol and sent him to the planet for some other purpose. It's also possible that she wants him dead for his feelings towards starbuck.

However, I like to keep a completely open mind when it comes to these things so I'm not ruling out the prophecies validity, but the cylon orchestration storyline would be my preference.

There also exists a possibility in which they are able to predict events a short time in advance due to a rudimentary grasp of chaos theory (calculated by god and distributed to the other cylons?).

I guess we'll find out in season 2 *crosses fingers*

I think she wants him alive-I believe she's grooming him to lead the colonies after El Presidente gets shuffled off this mortal coil. I think they've something nasty planned for the Colonials, aye, but its not nessescarily sending in a fleet of Basestars to nuke them all.

BTW, did anyone notice the guy who got jailed a few episodes back (can't recall his name) after taking the fall for Tyrol, in the back of one of the Raptors?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

I still think the cylons want to follow the fleet until it finds earth..

that is why there was no base star at kobol when they first jumped there, and then when they got back (after some fleet based spy sent word) there was a little armada waiting for them.. possibly preparing to scour the surface for clues to the path to earth?

Fenster

It was great!

Right, after all my postings, I may as well post my review.

This ranks as one of the best pieces of sci-fi that I've seen in a long, long while. It also ranks as the first TV sci-fi series I've watched to put out such a consistently good first season. Even DS9 and B5 needed a few seasons to get going.

Incredibly strong and subtle acting all round between the lead characters. The scene where they're playing power was excellently played, everything was done without the need to go and blatantly say anything. Also at the end when Kara jumped in the raider. You could tell Adama didn't like what she was doing, but accepted it. It would be cool if "Apollo's Arrow" turned out to be some kind of high-tech relic, but I've a feeling that will be something for the second series.

I'm also intensely curious as to what originally drove the coloniel from Kobol-Cylons of their own?

Hmm, the entire scene after the three raptors jumped was absolutely fantastic, although my only gripe were some shots of when the Raptor was coming in-they had the glow from below it, but the planet was to the side. Such is the life of the geek.

Other downside was in the intro-there were scenes shown from previous episodes that apparently never got aired here, which detracted from things somewhat.

Other downer was the end credits-right at the start was a Sky teaser for next week with a massive spoiler.

Not much I can really pick at in this episode-a hell of a lot happened, all of it good. I'm sure Coyote will be along soon enough with some quality nitpickings.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

Other downside was in the intro-there were scenes shown from previous episodes that apparently never got aired here, which detracted from things somewhat.

we're missing episodes?

Fenster

It was great!

Mordeth wrote:

we're missing episodes?

We're missing scenes.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

ohthankgod

ixoy

It was okay...

Fenster wrote:

We're missing scenes.

What scenes? I didn't notcing any frakking edits.

Fenster

It was great!

There's a scene in Flesh and Blood where the captain's of the Geminon Traveller is briefing Kara on the Cylon-he shows her the device they took from him that he was trying to plant. This scene apparently never made it into the Sky airing (click here and here). However, its features in tonight's opening.

MisterAnarchy

It was okay...

I'm also intensely curious as to what originally drove the coloniel from Kobol

I thought humanity was exiled by the Gods ?
Also the planet may not be Kobol.

Nukem

It was okay...

Great Ep. - when those raptors flew in to the swarms of raiders i was glued to the screen. Helo is a crap shot-I would have smoked the b*tch.Caprica finally got interesting proper.

And the other Hoshi shot herself in the mouth like Ed Norton from "Fight Club" silly billy.

Cant belive its the last one next week ah!!!!!!

stakey

It was great!

for those totally impatient for this series you may remember these screenshots, the ones of starbuck are to say the least very interesting....

dont look if you dont want spoilers

http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s1/graphics/113_gallery.shtml

Johnny Storm

It was okay...

Very good episode.


Only slight quibble - El Presidente has been established as way too hard headed to suddenly come over all religious. Also it was too easy for her to persuade Starbuck to effectively desert and steal the military's only effective secret weapon against the Cylons.

Very glad to hear that the "as previously seen" section contained previously unseen footage. That's actually pretty cool - but I was beginning to worry about early onset Alzheimers....

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

It was great!

Only slight quibble - El Presidente has been established as way too hard headed to suddenly come over all religious. Also it was too easy for her to persuade Starbuck to effectively desert and steal the military's only effective secret weapon against the Cylons.

religion makes people do crazy things

Bannor

Steven999 wrote:

Something thats on my mind is the fact that Gaius was told by Six to be on the raptor patrol in order to be safe but then was attacked at Kobol which she must of known would happen (she's still in touch with the Cylon's even though the Cylon's dont know about him + her ). i wonder has she decided to get rid of him ?.

And another thing about Gaius . His personality seems to be going through a change . 1) he seems to be falling in love (odd for him) . 2) he seemed to care what happened to Boomer ( human feeling isn't the usual thing for him) . 3) All these things that are happening are making him act even more strangely when he's in a group and Six is nattering away in his ear .

Overall he seems to be losing it..........but maybe that's just love or something............ :rolleyes:

Baltar wasn't concerned for Boomer, he was concerned for Galactica (and his own self preservation). Six told him that something is going to happen to Galactica and it would be better for him if he was to leave the ship. Boomer is the only Cylon agent on board the ship which he is aware of so he naturally thought that she would be the source of the threat. He told her that there are far worse things than death (i.e. believing you're a Cylon agent and living with fact that you have sabotaged the ship) in the hope that she would kill herself. Six has identified the Boomer model being weak and on the evidence of the behaviour of the two Boomer models that certainly seems to be the case.

I think Starbuck is a Cylon. Reasons: she's the best pilot Adama has ever seen, she's also the best sniper in the fleet, the Raider responds to her and the only other person to have an initial insight into the Raider was Boomer, Number Six's reaction to Baltar after sleeping with her when she didn't take any notice of his involvement with the reporter. And it would make a nice twist for a cliff hanger episode - there are two humanoid Cylon models yet to be reveled. Who wrote the word Cylon on the mirror in Boomer's locker?

Vokes

And what will happen when Helo and Starbuck meet each other in the next episode?

They won't trust each other, each thinking the other is a Cylon!

Perhaps, Starbuck will even kill Helo..

Thoughts...?

McClane

>>2000 years is not enough time for Legends of Kobol.

eh Why ? Remember a chap called Jesus and a book called the Bible ?

Add to that the fact that they were probably much less technologically advanced back then and didn't know where/if/when they would reach a solar system capable of sustaining them. The panic etc would result in a kind of chaotic history.

its more then enough time.

>>The past would have to be recorded accurately.

Why ? People fleeing planet = chaos, chaos = not good record keeping.

Anyways i thought it was a great episode except.

I don't like the idea of the Galactia and her crew been the play things of the cylons. It seems to me that the Cylons could wipe them out at any opportunity and are simply toying with them. I wouldn't mind if they were just trying to maybe follow them to Earth and then destroy all of humanity but it doesn't seem to be leaning that way. I don't like the idea of 6 knowing everything before it happens either, have galactia got even one victory or gave the cylons one single surprise yet ? I don't think so.

I like where i think the whole Baltar thing is going. Baltar for anyone who doesn't know/remember was the name of the leader of the Cylons, their "master" and he was a Human, in the old series. I wonder is that where they are going with it.

I just want to see 6 and the cylons get surprised by Adama and suffer some kind of big defeat just once. So far it all seems to be a Cylon game and thats alright as long as it doesn't go on and on and on.

Steven

eh Why ? Remember a chap called Jesus and a book called the Bible ?

Er, yes, but we didn't have interstellar travel back then. We'll assume they had some reliable system of record keeping on their faster-than-light colony ships

I don't care how shocked you are, that kind of cataclismic civilisation destroying event doesn't just get dismissed as legend after a few years. Hell, they should probably still have a couple of the original ships lying around gathering dust in a museum. That kind of thing doesn't rust too easily.

have galactia got even one victory or gave the cylons one single surprise yet ? I don't think so.

Don't you remember the mining and treatment facility on the big floating chunk of fuel in ep. 10 "The Hand of God"? They brought the pain!

Steven

Bannor wrote:

I think Starbuck is a Cylon. Reasons: she's the best pilot Adama has ever seen, she's also the best sniper in the fleet, the Raider responds to her and the only other person to have an initial insight into the Raider was Boomer, Number Six's reaction to Baltar after sleeping with her when she didn't take any notice of his involvement with the reporter. And it would make a nice twist for a cliff hanger episode - there are two humanoid Cylon models yet to be reveled. Who wrote the word Cylon on the mirror in Boomer's locker?

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

More paranoia! More conspiracies!

Stimpyone

It was crap!

In my opinion they are all Cylons!

Theory.

-The prophecy states "all that has happened has happened before" ( something like that anyway )

-The inhabitants of Kobol became technically advanced and created a race of robots to do their bidding, the robots evolved until human like ( see where I'm going with this ) and rose up against their masters.

-After a long war the robots left Kobol and scattered through out the stars, all knowledge of their actual beginnings were forgotten, just the legends of Kobol and the Gods ( creators ) remained.

-Fast forward 2000 years and history is repeating itself. the new Cylon race know this and that's how they are able to predict things.


Maybe Earth is where the original inhabitants of Kobol fled to?
Just my theory anyway...........

Johnny Storm

It was okay...

Stimpyone wrote:

In my opinion they are all Cylons!

Great idea. I'd be surprised if that (or something very like it) is not correct.

Johnny Storm

It was okay...

Steven wrote:

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

More paranoia! More conspiracies!

Agree. Good analysis Bannor.

I also think there is something as yet unrevealed about Adama's relationship with Starbuck. Why does he seem to trust her with such vital missions? OK she has the many positve qualities listed above but she is also a flake and responsible for the death of Adama's first son. Adama is not the trusting sort.

Of all of them the only one I'm sure is not a Cylon is Adama. I think that would just be TOO dark.

Brerrabbit

Other downer was the end credits-right at the start was a Sky teaser for next week with a massive spoiler

Yeah that was VERY annoying I turned off right away but a little too late

I thought the episode was amazing; best to date, talk about picking up the pace! the scenes of the raptors jumping into kobols orbit (and then of balthars raptor crash landing) were breathtaking. Well done to whoever noticed balthar saying "oh my God" instead of Gods, missed that one myself. (Although in the original series a few characters say oh my god, either a production error or maybe weach colony worships a particular God more than the others?

I think Balthars little chat with galactica boomer wasn't really altruistic. as another poster pointed out, it was probably self preservation. That being said when his raptor was plummeting towards Kobol and the rest of the survey team were trying to restrain Balthar, it seemed he wasnt only getting hysterical because he thought he was about to die, but also because he was the only one who knew that the cylons are finally planning to do something reallybad to the galactica and he was trying to get back to protect it.

After next weeks episode theres going to be a drought of what; a year? Bugger. ah well I have the original series to keep me going; maybe if I dole them out one per week every monday at eight

Oh and still I think Lee adama may be one of the remaining cylon sleeper agents; when the prez was told "adama is a cylon" whatshis head didn't say which adama. just a thought

McClane

>>Er, yes, but we didn't have interstellar travel back then. We'll assume they had some reliable system of record keeping on their faster-than-light colony ships

1. You don't know how many people survived and you don't know they were FTL ships.

They could have been transported there by other means. (Gods intervention, wormhole, Hitched a ride on Red Dwarf) We don't know.

>>I don't care how shocked you are, that kind of cataclismic civilisation destroying event doesn't just get dismissed as legend after a few years.

After 2000 years ? Most young people in this country have forgotten what happened in 1916! and most Irish-Americans would find it hard to tell you the difference between Irish and British yet its their history as well as ours and thats only what ? 200 years ?

I don't see them as having as, advanced technology as they have now. I see them getting to the 12 colonies (12 tribes just happen to go to a solar system with 12 inhabitable planets ??) by other methods, maye the "Gods" intervention.

>>Hell, they should probably still have a couple of the original ships lying around gathering dust in a museum.

Yes and i've got Noahs Ark in me back yard. Yeah i know its wood and wood rots but if it was that important why did Noah not preserve it ? Because he had more important things to do and didn't see the relevance of it at the time. (Assumptions r cool)

They got to the 12 colonies and had a civilisation to rebuild. You really think they would think "Hey we better preserve these ships safely so that in 2000 years our ancestors can go into a museum and see em!".

I can see their leaving of kobol and arriving to the 12 colonies as been like the journey the famine ships had to take, i bet a lot of people died and if there wasn't intervention by the gods, it took them a long time.

>>That kind of thing doesn't rust too easily.

My instructions for surviving on a new planet.

1. Land on planet without killing everyone.

2. use Ships for building materials by breaking them up.

>>Don't you remember the mining and treatment facility on the big floating chunk of fuel in ep. 10 "The Hand of God"? They brought the pain!

And 6 knew exactly what was happening and Baltar pointed out the spot to hit with the bomb.

Still the Cylons Game.

Kevo

It was crap!

I just saw the end.....what happened?
I was waiting all week to see this and i missed it for the second time.
All i saw was starbuck 'going home'.
Could somebody explain what happened?

secret_squirrel

It was okay...

baltar shags starbuck she says apollo's name mid-shag - six goes mental. Boomer cracks up - baltar convinces her to commit suicide, she shoots a hole in her cheek when her cylon programing overrides the attempt - Helo shoots but cant kill capri-boomer. Starbuck and Apollo have a domestic.

A raptor finds earthlike planet with ruins - El Prez has a vision when she sees ruin pics. - Its Kobol. Prophecy states the need Apollo's Arrow to open temple for location of earth. Apollo's Arrow is still on caprica. 3 raptors jump to Kobol only to run into a BaseStar. One destroyed, one with baltar on crash lands. One warns Galactica. They come up with a plan to use the captured cylon raider to carry a nuke into the basestar. On a last test flight Starbuck fecks off to Caprica in the Raider.

To Be Continued.....


Btw - Do we know for sure that the 12 colonies were all in the same star system? BSG is kinda vague about that.

Stark

It was great!

How do they know that Apollo's arrow is still on Caprica? And even then, how do they know exactly where on Caprica?

Fenster

It was great!

Its possibly at Delphi, where Helo and Boomer are. After all, there's a huge Cylon base there for a reason.

As for the exiles from Kobol, the story of the Homeworld computer games struck me. For those who've never played it, its a space-based RTS where you guide your people back to their homeworld. I'm a big fan of the series because as well as three teriffic games, it has an extremely well written story with a lot of background to anything.

Anyways, originally, the group you played, the Hiigarans, had their homeworld in the galactic core. After a big war with the Taiidans, they were exiled to the rim. After reaching Kharak, they stripped their ships apart for constuction materials and other than some campfire tales and religious warnings their past was forgotten. Seems to have been the same here: Other than tales of Kobol and some relics like Apollo's Arrows, everything was lost. All the artifacts, the swords and pictures of sailing ships, in Adama's quarters also point to there being a dark age. I'm suprised no one mentioned this.

Even hard-bitten Adama seems to admit that for all that he's not religious, he believes that they originally came from Kobol some millenia ago.

secret_squirrel

It was okay...

Stark wrote:

How do they know that Apollo's arrow is still on Caprica? And even then, how do they know exactly where on Caprica?

There was a line to the effect of - it was kept in the temple on caprica - but you are right - the cylons could have moved it. Possibly Capri-Boomer might know where it is.....

stakey

It was great!

"Do we know for sure that the 12 colonies were all in the same star system? BSG is kinda vague about that."

Doubtful, I think they are all in different star systems. A solar system has a habitable zone, to state the obvious, we live in our habitable zone. Mars and Venus are outside the habitable zone and we see how hostile these are to humans. So i doubt you could fit 12 colonies/planets into a habitable zone in one star system.

David Stewart

It was okay...

McClane wrote:

My instructions for surviving on a new planet.

1. Land on planet without killing everyone.

2. use Ships for building materials by breaking them up.

You left out:

3. Grow food

4. Make babies.

Surviving on a new colony takes a lot of resources. There would be none to spare for historians wishing to keep a record of where they came from, especially if they were fleeing from some sort of cataclysm. Any budding historians would also have to be farmers, labourers etc. It would only be with the development of an industrial base that there would be sufficient resources to support "non-productive" members of society.

David Stewart