Playing for Value v Getting Outdrawn

Iago

This is a situation that seems to be arising more and more in games I play, and I'm curious as to how you guys would play it.

You have a small PP or the board pairs on the flop giving you trips, in either case there is at least one overcard on the board and maybe 2 to a straight or flush draw. How would you play this? Do you check and then call or raise a bet, put in a smallish raise for value, put in a large raise to take the pot then and there?

How would you play this hand for example

Stack 3.5K; You've 88 and you're UTG on a full table, I limped in here for 200

Flop was 4s 7h 8s,

BB checked, I checked, next player bet 200, one caller, BB folds and I raised to 600 which both players called..

Turn was Qs, I bet 1200 both players folded.

My thinking was to increase the value on the flop but at the same time I was worried about the straight and flush draws. When the third Spade hit I had to bet big and represent the filled flush, otherwise I risked it being checked to the river and somebody filling their straight or flush.

I'm always tempted to try and slowplay these hands for value, but I found I was getting outdrawn a lot, which led to me switching to playing them aggresively. So how do you normally play this situation?

dirkey_wynne

Had a hand this w/end on VC. Incidentally I lost a fortune over the w/end, and not by playing badly. I played badly on Thursday night and lost a small bit, but each time I got my money in over the w/end I went in in front, and came out behind. It was awful. Right now I don't ever feel like playing again, but know I will.

Cash game. I'm UTG I think it was. I called the blind with 33. About 3/4 more callers, before late position raises it up a bit. Two callers between me and him, so I call for hte value. I've tried to erase this from memory, so most of this is hazy. Anyway, I remember there were about 5 of us in, and a good pot brewing. Flop is 3QQ.

I'm early, first/second, to act, and check. I knew someone would bet, if noone else the initial raiser had to. A MP player bets. Raiser raises this bet. Folds to me. I re-raise. MP calls. Original raiser moves all in. I raise all in. MP folds. Cards show (unusual for a cash game, but happens on VC.) He has AQ. I'm sitting there thinking, no Ace! Turn comes 2. River comes 2.

Disgusting.

careca

sickener

Jaden

If I hit trips on the flop with small pocket pairs, I come out shooting.

If there are 2 over cards to my trips, or a straight on the cards, I don't want to give anyone a chance to overtake me.

You have trips, stop messing about and take the pot. A good 5 to 10 x BB should tell you if anyone else may have hit better trips. Nobody calls a bet like that with a flush or straight draw, unless they really, really need the money. And you can always fill up if the board pairs up.

Waylander

Thats rough Dirkey, have a few outdraws like that myself lately. Iago I think I would have played that pretty much the same yway you did. Every now and I again I try to be crafty and slow play this kind of hand, but usually get burned for my troubles.

Hyzepher

If I hit a set and there is a flush or str8 draw then I am betting - most online players will call- even if they dont have the odds - the problem with checking is that not only do you give them a free card but if they fail to hit then you are not going to get paid - they are less likely to call with one one card to come.

Dirkey - I have found that low PP are very dodgy - especially if the board pairs as well. Not only can a higher pocket pair kill you but the board can also get you.

Hyzepher

dirkey_wynne

Hyzepher wrote:

Dirkey - I have found that low PP are very dodgy - especially if the board pairs as well. Not only can a higher pocket pair kill you but the board can also get you.

Hyzepher

Most definitely. I knew the bet was coming from somewhere though, too many players in a raised pot for it not to happen, hence the check raise. Knew I was ahead, got the money in while ahead - realistically he was on a 4 outter (the three aces and one remaining queen) as you really don't expect the turn and river to pair! Still stranger things have happened.

That was just the icing though. I'm feeling particularly odd with poker today, as the w/end was all similar like that, getting money in ahead, getting runner runnered, coming out behind. Another was my AA all in pre to AQ off, course he hits his 4 spades with the Q to give him a flush...

careca

Interesting article on card player about very same topic. His thought-up hand is very similar to yours Iago, albeit he has more players involved. Good example though.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14485