I need a car(€5000)

gaui3d0pnbz86o

The time has come to change my car, but i cant decide what i would like. I will drive anything, but id like it to be realible and cheap to run. I have 5000 to spend, though if its less its better! although if a lil bit more will get me a better car in the long run i could increase the budget.

Currently i drive an '89 corolla, and its fine, nct'd and taxed, selling due to its age and i should have no problem selling it.

What can ye, the fine people of the motor forum(will flattery get me anywhere?) reccommend?What would be realible and good value, and have good resale value?

thanks to all
tom

x in the city

since moving from a honda i noticed the beemer much better to drive, also will hold resale value much better compared to other marques.

but by all means explore other options.

gaui3d0pnbz86o

bmw sounds good, which one would be best thought 3 series or 5 or whatever, was there not a head gasket problem withsome series bmws?

any other cars i should look out for?

x in the city

depends if you want 4 or 6 cylinders. main thing to consider is who will do the repairs, i have a mechanically inclined brother so im ok.

i got mine private and apart from some cooling problems mentioned, the engine is like new. generall speaking compared to other cars, bmws are usually well looked after <they do cost abit>, if you use your common sense and get the car checked out you could be having a nice big grin.

a 318i would be a good starting point, or a 525i would be very nice, depends on what you want to pay for insurance etc.

as mentioned in another post, a seven yr old 100grand 7 series now going for a song......

bazz26

Have a look at the Audi A4, you can pick up a 97 A4 1.8 for around €6k or €7k. Just make sure the cylinder coils were replaced by one of the previous owners. VW had issues with these in their 1.8 20 valve engine. If you need something with a bit more room then look at the VW Passat, has the same engines as the A4 but has a bigger interior, legroom and boot.

The ideal engine to go for would be the 1.9 Tdi which was available in both cars with 90bhp and 110bhp, you might find a nice tidy looked after car but to be honest a diesel of that age may have rocket ship mileage on it.

Check out http://www.carzone.ie

eljono

If you're looking for something reliable and cheap to run, I'd recommend you stick with Toyota. You could get a nice Corolla or Carina for that money. I did a quick search on carzone.ie and you could get a '97 Carina 1.6 with 55,000mls with CD twin airbags for 4,950

Silvera

I have a '97 Honda (with 40k miles) which I would sell for €5k !

.......... a BMW would be a good second choice

unkel

x in the city wrote:

as mentioned in another post, a seven yr old 100grand 7 series now going for a song......

Shut up, shut up, shut up!!!!

BrianD3

The OP mentioned reliability and low running costs as being a priority and also said he will drive anything. In this case, I would recommend another Toyota eg the 97 Carina as already mentioned.

Don't know why people are telling him to go for a BMW. Most 5 grand BMWs on the market are nails that have had the sh1te driven out of them.

Also I find it a bit amusing that in this and other threads people are mentioning 7 series Beamers, S-Class Mercs and even Rolls Royces as good secondhand buys for those on a budget. I don't think ye realise how much these vehicles can cost to run in terms of road tax, tyres, petrol, servicing, parts etc. not to mention insurance if you're under 30.

BrianD3

stratos

I hate to say it, if your on a budget, want it to keep going, and aren't too image concious. Buy a toyota starlet. You won't find yourself staring out the window at it, but it will do everything else without blinking.

stratos

I agree with Brian b.t.w. being on a low budget myself sometimes, and yet still wanting to stand out, I have bought the 5000 e nail B.M.W.'s and believe me they are. Now I have pair axle stands and don't mind getting dirty. But oh what price beauty!

lomb

ive been reading up on the old shell 5 series (early 90 s) one. it was stated this was bmws least problematic car. capable of 400000 miles easily.

my point on the sclasses, bmw, rollers is this. if ur depreciation is zero u can spend the money on other things like tax, tyres etc. and shift it on b4 it needs anything doing. they are bargains make no mistake but they wouldnt be if anyone knew this. also tax on 30 year old rollers is 80 quid or something, no nct is needed ever (dahamsta), depreciation is zero, and classic insurance is 250euro. id say that is a bargain wouldnt u?

stratos

I'v had 2 old shape 5 series at about 100'000 miles they still go fine. just everyday something breaks. It may be small things. Nothing but trouble.On both cars, rear suspension bushes failed around 100,000.Ahorrendous job to fix involving removing the rear axle.
Using a classic as a daily driver doesn't work either I tried it.The insurance is milage limited, And very specific about use too. Plus no matter how well any classic has bee'n restored, these cars are old. they have no safety devices like crumple zones or airbags. The brakes on most are appaling compared to a modern car. Not something to be driving your loved ones around in on a regular basis.

lomb

stratos wrote:

I'v had 2 old shape 5 series at about 100'000 miles they still go fine. just everyday something breaks. It may be small things. Nothing but trouble.On both cars, rear suspension bushes failed around 100,000.Ahorrendous job to fix involving removing the rear axle.

are u sure the clock hadnt been pulled on them down from say 150k

BrianD3

Running something like an old BMW 7 series, Merc S Class or even a Porsche 928 as a daily driver can make a lot of sense compared to buying a newer smaller car which is still depreciating, provided
a) you have have done your homework
b) have a small annual mileage say 8000 or less
c) know of a competent non franchised garage which wil be able to take on any maintenance
d) have some money set aside in case of a major mechanical mishap
e) are of an age where you can afford the insurance.
f) own your own petrol station

Otherwise I'm afraid you're just setting yourself up for hassle and expense.

As I said earlier, parts and servicing for these cars can be horrendous. Take the old model Merc S500. Great car and engine but what happens if it needs a new CAT, windscreen (double glazed remember) headlight or requires attention to the engine/brakes/suspension. It's going to be vastly more expensive than for a more "normal" car. And it's no good saying sell it when something expensive goes wrong, these cars are not that easy to sell anyway as people are (rightly) afraid of the running costs, hence the amazingly low 2nd hand prices.

BrianD3

unkel

BrianD3 wrote:

Running something like an old BMW 7 series, Merc S Class or even a Porsche 928 as a daily driver can make a lot of sense compared to buying a newer smaller car which is still depreciating, provided
a) you have have done your homework
b) have a small annual mileage say 8000 or less
c) know of a competent non franchised garage which wil be able to take on any maintenance
d) have some money set aside in case of a major mechanical mishap
e) are of an age where you can afford the insurance.
f) own your own petrol station

Good points. All very true, except point f)

The difference between doing 20mpg and 30mpg @8000 miles per annum is only €500, i.e. nothing compared to tax, insurance, depreciation

I've been doing the old luxobarge thing now for the last 4 years and it has worked out very well for me so far. No major repairs except standard servicing. The 7 will hit 120k miles before I have it a year next month

BrianD3

That's true about the petrol unkel, 20 mpg vs 30 mpg isn't a huge difference over 8k miles. As for maintenance and things going wrong, didn't your old V8 5 series have an oil leak which would have cost mega money to put right. OK it was a minor leak that didn't really need fixing but it does show how there is potential for big bills on these executive cars.

BrianD3

lomb

BrianD3 wrote:

As I said earlier, parts and servicing for these cars can be horrendous. Take the old model Merc S500. Great car and engine but what happens if it needs a new CAT, windscreen (double glazed remember) headlight or requires attention to the engine/brakes/suspension. It's going to be vastly more expensive than for a more "normal" car. And it's no good saying sell it when something expensive goes wrong, these cars are not that easy to sell anyway as people are (rightly) afraid of the running costs, hence the amazingly low 2nd hand prices.

BrianD3

i disagree. in some ways as someone mentioned previously there is a sweet spot of maybe 2 or 3 years between a car being cheap AND reliable.
the old shape s class was the best engineered car of all time. i still remember the 20 minute spin i took in one. absolutely fabulous.

windscreens are dear (about 1500 euro) however comprehensive insurance would cover it without affecting the no claims.
tax is dear@ 1300 euro pa. however when u consider that ur driving a 115000 euro car for 10000euro with little or no depreciation id say its a testimony to the rich in this country being absolute snobs or having too much money and probably both to afford new cars and shun these bargain.
it is true though ur never going to run a car the size of a 7series jag or sclass on hay pennies after all ur not driving a 10000euro car. ur driving a 100000+euro automobile. i would admit u do need a deep knowlegde of what ur getting into as if say the engine packs up u could be looking at 10000euro ie a writeoff but this is unlikely to say the least on a car of the sclasses caliber.

lomb

ps i wouldnt touch say an 80s 928 as ur past the sweet spot- only for the brave. im talking 96 or 97 ie virtually new. and as unkel said petrol is irrelevent.
a brand new e200 is loosing 10000euro in year one. il stick my neck out and say a 97 s500 is a vastly superior car than a new pretty e200.
even if u spent an extra 1000 euro on it on fuel sure thats nothing as opposed to suffering 10000 euro depreciation. also there is the cost of finance on a new car and slightly higher servicing costs due to servicing within the dealer network.

incidently i was driven in a new e240 recently and found it slightly cramped, could certainly hear noises from outside and found the suspension unyielding over speed bumps. by contrast the s320 i drove was whisper quiet, fabulous suspension and was spacious.

as final confirmation if u look around ul c taxi drivers driving the odd s320. i think this says it all with regards to fuel and reliability.

mike65

...and so another motors thread drifts off into the hazy world of exotic barges!

Back to the issue, 5000 and low running costs proberly means you should stick with what you know so be boring as suggested and buy another Toyota.

Leave the German heavy metal until you have reached a "certain" age!

Mike.

dahamsta

mike65 wrote:

Leave the German heavy metal until you have reached a "certain" age!

Careful now Mike...

(11yo 525i, <90k, €3.5k+€1.5k tax and insurance, which just about hits that chaps budget on the head. Rock solid car, tremendous fun to drive. Only problem I've had so far - touch wood - is a dip beam that keeps popping, prolly cos the headlight isn't anchored properly. NCT soon though! *shiver*)

adam

unkel

mike65 wrote:

Leave the German heavy metal until you have reached a "certain" age!

There would be very few owners of 7 or S in this country that that aren't at least approaching 30

I hear ya mike about going off topic, but feel the need to put in just one more post...

BrianD3 wrote:

didn't your old V8 5 series have an oil leak

You remember right

BrianD3 wrote:

which would have cost mega money to put right

About £300 and indeed it was not necessary to fix, so I didn't. I was VERY upfront and open about it when selling the car. Not mega money and as you posted yourself, you need to take into account potentially expensive repairs when you consider owning a car of this caliber. Having said that, I've heard more about €2000 jobbies needed doing on '00 Astras etc that were necessary...

lomb wrote:

there is a sweet spot of maybe 2 or 3 years

Sweet spot or period is right! Of course this period is subjective and depending on budget. For me (do no work on the car myself and I value reliability, but servicing and repairs with parts at cost is done by trusty and cheap specialist, non stealer) it is in the 7-10 year bracket currently with high end beamers. Pay €11k-ish, sell €5k-ish after 3 years

Make no mistake, this is more risky than buying a new toyota Yaris (which costs more than €11k BTW). I've done the figures and it works out for me similar to buying a 2 year old Astra / Golf / Focus / Corolla and keeping it for 2 years. I included a steep enough budget for repairs, which I have not needed yet

As we all agree, knowledge is very helpful. Both cats in my 7 were replaced @95k miles, I bought @112k. This job alone would have set me back between €1000 and €2000

When I did my calculations, I didn't put any monetary value on the big smile put on my face whenever I see the car, let alone the grandeur of driving it. And driving it does

lomb

hey unkel, why did it need a cat, surely not to pass emissions?

AlienGav

Liberty Delicious Chauffeur wrote:

What can ye, the fine people of the motor forum(will flattery get me anywhere?) reccommend?What would be realible and good value, and have good resale value?

Get a 93-95 Toyota Starlet GT Turbo, and live a little!

Don't know if u need a four door or not? But if u don't, the starlet has the most bang for your buck!

gaui3d0pnbz86o

thanks for all the replys, ye certenly gave me a lot to look up on the net and so on, i think ill pass on the mercs\rolls\high end bmws for the moment(that said i like the idea of driving a 5\3 series bmw a lot), maybe till car after this one, insurance is a factor for me as well(have full lisence and 1yrs NCB)

i only drive myself most of the time or 1 passenger, so 4 doors arnt a prioerty, the starlet gt turbo looks ok, and im sure drives fine, as does a carina. both fall well inside my budget. but surly there are more potentiol cars to looks at.

i do drive a lot(well probably not as much as most of ye but about 16000 a year) so comfort and road noise in the car is important to me as well

any more recomendations?

BrianD3

lomb wrote:

hey unkel, why did it need a cat, surely not to pass emissions?

Few/no cars built after 1992 will pass emissions without a cat in reasonable working order. I think you posted in another thread about how your Corolla passed emissions despite unburnt fuel having gotten into the cat. The reason it passed is not because you don't need a cat, it's because your cat survived relatively unscathed.

Anyhow, back on topic. Flameboy, what about the Nissan Primera. Car is comfortable, quiet and handles well. Some reports of unreliability and poor build quality in UK built cars. Check out honestjohn.co.uk and carsurvey.org to research this for yourself.

There's one in the buyandsell now, a 1996 with only 67k (hmm!) on the clock and apparently one owner since 1997, price 2700.

BrianD3

eljono

98 Civic 41k mls http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=180990
97 Civic 38k mls http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=185565

I still think that a nice spec Carina (SLi/Executive) would suit your needs best although the Civic would be slightly cheaper to run.

lomb

unkel wrote:

As we all agree, knowledge is very helpful. Both cats in my 7 were replaced @95k miles, I bought @112k. This job alone would have set me back between €1000 and €2000

http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/exhausts.htm

'universal cat converter 59.95'

gaui3d0pnbz86o

ive never considered the primera, certenly warrents further investagation.


as for a civic, when i see one all i can think about is boy racers, my apoligies to anyone who has one and is not a boy racer(im sure they exist) but thats the image they bring to mind to me!

Seth Brundle

lomb wrote:

http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/exhausts.htm

'universal cat converter 59.95'

I had to fork out €1200 for a new cat recently. This price was after I was reimboursed for the old one (dealer part x or something) and I also recieved a 10% discount (BMW Club). I was gutted when I handed it over. However, I don't think a 60 quid replacement would be a wise saving!

lomb

funny thing is the 60 quid ones might even be better as there free flowing ie not much catalyst material in it, so more power. i would have gone with one of these first personally, or one out of a breakers yard. 1200 is crazy discount or not.

Seth Brundle

You may be right but
a) I wasn't aware of it then,
b) I was really stuck and needed a quick, reliable fix, (my poor sick baby was parked at my parents on the opposite side of the big smoke!)
c) I originally thought it was going to be about 2/3 of that price!
d) at this stage I have accepted the financial loss and am happy with the restored power and am just looking towards increasing it (more financial loss I guess!)

unkel

kbannon wrote:

I had to fork out €1200 for a new cat recently

Feck that's terrible

What's the mileage on the 523? I was under the impression that a cat lasts for up to about 100k if you're lucky

@lomb - From your link:

you cna probably still have the entire system installed for under $500

I have 2 cats

One of the many good feelings I had before I bought was that they had just been replaced. My planned "soft spot / period" will take the car up to about 140k so I will never have to get them replaced

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote:

Feck that's terrible

What's the mileage on the 523? I was under the impression that a cat lasts for up to about 100k if you're lucky

523i is on ~65k miles. Apparently these cats only last about 6-8 years and is a common enough item to wear!

lomb

unkel wrote:

Feck that's terrible

What's the mileage on the 523? I was under the impression that a cat lasts for up to about 100k if you're lucky

@lomb - From your link:



I have 2 cats

One of the many good feelings I had before I bought was that they had just been replaced. My planned "soft spot / period" will take the car up to about 140k so I will never have to get them replaced

i

hi unkel if u read the parts list he does mention 2 cats in the 500




in any case gsf have cats for 350 euro each inc vat so a failed cat is not the end of the world.

on another point unkel i heard that v8 bmws are suseptible to water entering the engine and destroying it even if u drive slowly through a flooded road. this seems to have troubled the 740i in particular for some reason. cost of engine rebuild with new block probably 10000 so be careful now that the rainy season is coming.cold water can also damage the hot cat.

stratos

I just thought I'd post this probably everyone knows already. BMW 520i's were recalled due to the aluminium block bee'n eaten by sulpher in petrol. A lot were recalled and replaced by exactly the same engine, as BMW had no alternative, as some engines failed as early as 40,000 miles. So 98 2 litre BMW buyers beware. But you probably knew this already.

Seth Brundle

[ Maybe this thread needs a new title! ]
That problem was caused by premature wearing of the nikasil bore liners. Engines were replaced with different (steel) liners. BMW (GB) tended to replace blocks for the cost of fluids (coolant & oil) whereas BMW (Irl) weren't (AFAIK) as generous.
Engines affected were the M52 straight 6 and the M60 V8 between late 1995 and March 1998. However, due to the nature of the issue cars were not recalled but were dealt with if the problem arose.
A leakdown test will reveal any existing problems.

stratos

Just on my own experience. My 520 i failed at 49'000. The engine was replaced under warranty by B.M.W. They were amazed it missed "the recall". The reason as explained to me was the "alusil bonding process". laboratory fuel had bee'n used in testing. This had no sulphur content, whereas forecourt petrol did. Ridiculously it took 3 months to replace the engine. However I have to say the whole thing was hassle free, and dealt with proffesionaly.

professore

Liberty Delicious Chauffeur wrote:

thanks for all the replys, ye certenly gave me a lot to look up on the net and so on, i think ill pass on the mercs\rolls\high end bmws for the moment(that said i like the idea of driving a 5\3 series bmw a lot), maybe till car after this one, insurance is a factor for me as well(have full lisence and 1yrs NCB)

i only drive myself most of the time or 1 passenger, so 4 doors arnt a prioerty, the starlet gt turbo looks ok, and im sure drives fine, as does a carina. both fall well inside my budget. but surly there are more potentiol cars to looks at.

i do drive a lot(well probably not as much as most of ye but about 16000 a year) so comfort and road noise in the car is important to me as well

any more recomendations?

Try to find a 99 or 00 Xantia HDi.

I have a 98 Turbo D with 105k Miles when bought and now has 130k miles, nothing has gone wrong, reasonable insurance, very comfortable, loads of space and looks great (I think). Fantastic car.

The turbo D gets about 45 MPG but have been reliably informed that the HDi returns 55 MPG.

The Xantia is basically a Peugeot 406 with better build quality (yes really, look at the rubbers around the window on the peugeot), options and hydropneumatic suspension (make sure you have a mechanic who's familiar with this).

HERE

professore

Liberty Delicious Chauffeur wrote:

thanks for all the replys, ye certenly gave me a lot to look up on the net and so on, i think ill pass on the mercs\rolls\high end bmws for the moment(that said i like the idea of driving a 5\3 series bmw a lot), maybe till car after this one, insurance is a factor for me as well(have full lisence and 1yrs NCB)

i only drive myself most of the time or 1 passenger, so 4 doors arnt a prioerty, the starlet gt turbo looks ok, and im sure drives fine, as does a carina. both fall well inside my budget. but surly there are more potentiol cars to looks at.

i do drive a lot(well probably not as much as most of ye but about 16000 a year) so comfort and road noise in the car is important to me as well

any more recomendations?

Try to find a 99 or 00 Xantia HDi.

I have a 98 Turbo D with 105k Miles when bought and now has 130k miles, nothing has gone wrong, reasonable insurance, very comfortable, loads of space and looks great (I think). Fantastic car.

The turbo D gets about 45 MPG but have been reliably informed that the HDi returns 55 MPG.

The Xantia is basically a Peugeot 406 with better build quality (yes really, look at the rubbers around the window on the peugeot), options and hydropneumatic suspension (make sure you have a mechanic who's familiar with this).

Picture HERE