Dublin Student Poker Championship

evilbert

The 1st ever Dublin Student Poker Championship will take place on Wednesday 9th February in the Gresham Hotel, O'Connell St.

Tickets are priced at €20 and will be available next week from The Trinity Cards Society in Trinity College. The Prize Fund is estimated to be above €3000. It will be a 270 man tournament making it the largest tournament to date in the UK or Ireland.

The event is being organised by The Trinty Cards Society but will include players from all of Dublin's major Universities & Colleges. However, tickets are not restricted purely to students...ANYONE MAY COMPETE!

The Event is being sponsored by vcstudentpoker.com and poker.ie so there will be plenty of goodies for participants. The Winner will recieve as well as prize money, a €275 buy-in to VCpoker's first Irish tournament to be announced soon, and also a seat at the VC Student Poker grand final in London with a £25,000 prize pool.

For more information contact cards@csc.tcd.ie

Skitbra

Why is it called Dublin Student Poker Championship if anyone can enter. Would it not make sense for a student society to run a competition for just students? As the places are also limited and could be sold out probably a few times over by just students why open it up to others?

delrodge

evilbert wrote:

Tickets are priced at €20 and will be available next week from The Trinity Cards Society in Trinity College. The Prize Fund is estimated to be above €3000. It will be a 270 man tournament making it the largest tournament to date in the UK or Ireland.

The Event is being sponsored by vcstudentpoker.com and poker.ie so there will be plenty of goodies for participants. The Winner will recieve as well as prize money, a €275 buy-in to VCpoker's first Irish tournament to be announced soon, and also a seat at the VC Student Poker grand final in London with a £25,000 prize pool.

So the trinity card club will be taking 2000 or more from the prize fund (assuming it's not a rebuy tournament, in which case it'll be atrocious value!)?
I'm estimating this as roughly a 13+7 tournament, sounds like ridiculously bad value, another incidence of a college card society creaming a ludicrously large amount off the prize pool for their own nefarious doings? FOR SHAME I say. college societies are not profit making organisations let alone extortionate ones.

gerire

If there is a skim off the pool. Why are there sponsors as well, I thought sponsors added to the fund at the end of a tournie?

johnor

maybe there is money for places too.....id still be interested, 20 quid is a nice amount..not too much loss there

MrPudding

delrodge wrote:

So the trinity card club will be taking 2000 or more from the prize fund (assuming it's not a rebuy tournament, in which case it'll be atrocious value!)?
I'm estimating this as roughly a 13+7 tournament, sounds like ridiculously bad value, another incidence of a college card society creaming a ludicrously large amount off the prize pool for their own nefarious doings? FOR SHAME I say. college societies are not profit making organisations let alone extortionate ones.

Yeah, shame on them for trying to make money. I am sure there are no costs at all for what they are trying to do and by God they should not be compensated for their own time.

These things do not organise themselves. I am presuming you have not tried to organise such an event yourself as you obviously have no idea how hassle and time is involved. Luckily, as you live in a free society you have the option of not going to the fcuking thing. I have nothing to do with this tournament but I am sure there will not be many sad faces if you excercise this option.

IF you want something for nothing go round to your ma's for sunday dinner.

MrP

DeVore

The prize fund is usually the total split out between the players.
usually first gets about 45% so the prize breakdown would be something like
1350
700
350
250
150
100
50
50

Your "risk" is 20 (I'm presuming no rebuys) and your possible reward is 1350 about 1:68
not good odds for a 1:270 shot. You'd want to really fancy your abilities to consider yourself considerably better then 3/4 of the attendees...

DeV.

Spiritus

MrPudding wrote:

IF you want something for nothing go round to your ma's for sunday dinner.

MrP

LOL

delrodge

MrPudding wrote:

Yeah, shame on them for trying to make money. I am sure there are no costs at all for what they are trying to do and by God they should not be compensated for their own time.

The costs for this will be miniscule compared to what they will be making espcially since the trinity CSC-(central societies committee) will most likely refund them the cost of renting the hotel. So what they are taking is all profit.
[Quote}
These things do not organise themselves. I am presuming you have not tried to organise such an event yourself as you obviously have no idea how hassle and time is involved.
[/Quote]
Afraid you're completely wrong here, I am the auditor of a college society and have every idea how much hassle and time is involved. Yet i don't feel the need to screw my over my society members.

Luckily, as you live in a free society you have the option of not going to the fcuking thing. I have nothing to do with this tournament but I am sure there will not be many sad faces if you excercise this option.

Nice of you to be pointlessly aggressive here, trolling perhaps?

IF you want something for nothing go round to your ma's for sunday dinner.

MrP

Funny :-) pretty much the only good thing about your post.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

Your "risk" is 20 (I'm presuming no rebuys) and your possible reward is 1350 about 1:68
not good odds for a 1:270 shot. You'd want to really fancy your abilities to consider yourself considerably better then 3/4 of the attendees...

DeV.

If this payment structure is right, or nearly right, then as Dev says its a bad deal. However its not a 1:270 for 1:68, its a totallly different figure. Anyone see why?

MrPudding

delrodge wrote:

Funny :-) pretty much the only good thing about your post.

Thank you, I liked it.

The point I was trying to make is perhaps we should wait for an explaination before jumping to the "robbing poor students" conclusion.

The fact that you are willing to give up your time for free does not mean you should hold everyone to the same standard. It is admirable that you do your work for free but I feel if a person is spending time organsing something like this, there ia a surprising amount of work in getting a poker tournie together, they should be entitled to cover their own costs. This should include their time. Of course if the UNI has a rule against this then that is different.

Anyway, whatever our thoughts are on the subject there isn't really enough info provided. hopefully the organisers will get back on and provide us with the info we need.

MrP

MrPudding

Hectorjelly wrote:

...... Anyone see why?

Oh, oh, me me me.

He forgot to factor in the free hookers and fluffers at the final table?

MrP

JuliusFranco

Hectorjelly wrote:

If this payment structure is right, or nearly right, then as Dev says its a bad deal. However its not a 1:270 for 1:68, its a totallly different figure. Anyone see why?

it actually EV of €11.11 for a €20 buy in (assuming prize pool of €3000, 270 players)

I got there first!!!
can I have a gold star please

Happy Camper

Is it because you can finish "not 1st", and still make money?

I think it is.

Mike.

Hectorjelly

JuliusFranco wrote:

it actually EV of €11.11 for a €20 buy in (assuming prize pool of €3000, 270 players)

I got there first!!!
can I have a gold star please

You get a silver star for being very clever but not answering the question

Hectorjelly

Happy Camper wrote:

Is it because you can finish "not 1st", and still make money?

I think it is.

Mike.

Gold star!

evilbert

First of all let me clarify the Student/non Student thing....

It will solely be a student event.Tickets will be sold exclusively to students at colleges around Dublin. There may however be a limited number of tickets available on the door.

I apologise for any confusion caused earlier.

evilbert

I'd like to thank Mr.Pudding for jumping to my defence as the internet crashed on me.

yes, when you factor in the cost of the hotel, cost of printing & designing posters, cost of security for the night, bar extension, food in the hotel, tickets, man hours put into the event, any money left over to be split between about 5 student societies then each organisation stands to make very little.

We are not running this event as a money maker but rather want to see the dublin student poker scene built up & made into something special. We feel that this can be a great event worth doing annually.

As regards the €3000 prize fund this is an early estimate & is set to rise when all costs have been covered, this is just a cautious initial estimate.

As far as the distribution of prizes goes, this hasn't been finalised yet but definately will stretch much further than the top table as was suggested is someone's post.

The suggestion that we'll get the hotel paid for from Trinty CSC is false as we applied to do this earlier in the year & were rejected (had we got it the prize fund would be higher). besides this we've spent all the money we've been allocated for this year.

Davey Devil

It seems very top heavy if you are expecting a field of 270 people. The winner gets a good chunk of the money - fair enough but also gets 2 tickets to further tournaments?

Presuming you get a full field of 270, what is the planned payout structure?

Can you also tell me what the starting stacks are, is there rebuys/top-ups, and the lenght of the levels?

One last question, will there be dealers?

evilbert

As I said the prize fund will be distributed quite equitably. The reason the winner get the 2 tickets is just because of the sponsorship...clearly Victor |Chandler wouldn't want whoever came 2nd to get the tickets or a ticket as then they'd look like a 2nd rate company...it makes sense.


The payout structure hasn't been devised yet but once it is,it will be posted here.

starting stacks are most likely to be to the value of 1500 in the form 25 x 4, 100 x 4, 500 x 2. as with all our other tournaments.

Players will deal themselves.

As a student event priced at €20 we don't think top-ups & re-buys will be much of a feature at all.

Lafortezza

270 x 20 = 5400.
Prize fund "estimated to be above €3000. Call it €3200.

evilbert wrote:

when you factor in the cost of the hotel, cost of printing & designing posters, cost of security for the night, bar extension, food in the hotel, tickets, man hours put into the event,

I'm not going to question how the numbers add up but it sounds weird to me.
You're getting big sponsorship from VC, extra prizes but surely they are contributing cash towards running costs? I.e. promotions, posters, flyers, etc.

Just seems a bit unusual that of the €5400 in entry fees, people can only win less than 60% of it.

Still though, any more info you can tell us would be much appreciated. Is it 100% students only? Or can graduates play? Buy tickets at the door?

evilbert

VC Poker couldn't give us huge sponsorship as they're about to launch their own poker tournaments in ireland in the next few months. i got all i could off them but they're not contributing to costs nor are poker.ie, just giving prixes to players.

It's a student only event undergrads & postgrads.there may be a limited number of tickets on the door.

Hectorjelly

This is my feeling on the subject. A €20 tournament should be a €20 tournament, with the full fee going to the prize pool. Now obviously there are costs involved, but thats why there is a registration fee, but its clearly denoted how much this is. So its a €20 + €3 tournament, and so on. Every player that enters must mean an extra €20 in the prize pool, this means no free entries. If there are a large amount of costs, or some € are going to charity then this must be made clear, like the tournament Tom organised before christmas.

If as has been implied the registration fee is 30%, this is way too high. No matter how good you are, playing this tournament is - EV. Daniel Negenu could not make a profit playing mtts with that much juice. Its also shady not to make this clear.

Spiritus

MrPudding wrote:

Oh, oh, me me me.

He forgot to factor in the free hookers and fluffers at the final table?

MrP

I would like to subscribe to your magazine. Oh wait, is this a maths question?

footoes

Evidently the TCD Cards Society have taken it upon themselves to completely ignore everything that has been said in this thread. Posters* for the "Dublin Student Poker Championship" are up around TCD at the moment and here's what they're advertising:

20 Euro buy-in

3000 Euro prize fund

--> Not 11.11 Euro + 8.89 Euro registration.

Thanks for misleading hundreds of students guys!

Regrading the "costs" involved:

evilbert wrote:

...when you factor in the cost of Hotel

- Wonder how much that is... care to tell?

cost of printing

- The posters are sponsored by "Reads of Nassau Street". Wonder how much they cost...

...& designing posters

- hmm... Who exactly did you pay to design the posters? You're P.R.O. officer perhaps? If so you should get the money back because all he did was google the word "Vegas" or perhaps "casino", inserted a relevent picture into an MSWord document and typed some words over it. Oh wait, student societies aren't allowed to pay their officers... forgot about that.

cost of security for the night

- Ooohh sounds all safe and brilliant... Wonder how much that is...

bar extension

- For the losers i assume... Wonder how much that is...

food in the hotel

- Can't argue with finger food... Wonder how much that is...

tickets

- Reads sponsor this too? Wonder how much that is...

man hours put into the event

- WOW hang on there for a second. It is 100% against CSC rules to pay your committiee members in any way, shape or form!

any money left over to be split between about 5 student societies then each organisation stands to make very little.

They SHOULD stand to make zero.

evilbert wrote:

We are not running this event as a money maker but rather want to see the dublin student poker scene built up & made into something special. We feel that this can be a great event worth doing annually.

Hopefully you'll see the light on the night and have a proper prize fund with a proper payout. Unfortunately i can't see the TCD Cards Society keeping their grubby mits off the player's prize pool.

Skitbra

Someone is very bitter.

Does is say when and where the tickets can be bought?

footoes

Skitbra wrote:

Someone is very bitter.

Can you believe i actually tryed to keep my bitter levels as low as possible.

Does is say when and where the tickets can be bought?

I don't recall, perhaps due to the fact i have no intention of attending. ZING!

That was bitter, i'm sorry.

peeko

I agree with Hector on this.... But alas our opinions mean nothing now! I would consider playing as it would be a bit of crack, and I haven't played in many big touranments, and I love to play, but if I won, I'd still be feeling ripped off!

Will probably be a lot of loose players though

Iago

anyone who willingly plays in this will be ripe for the taking. You'ld have to have no grasp of basic mathematics never mind what's +EV to consider entering this tournament. I can see it now, all-in on any PP or Axs....

I'd fit right in

DeVore

Apparently the recent tournie in Kilcock was similarly light on prizes... They took in about 35,000 and paid out 10,000. Nice money if you can separate it from the fool currently holding it.

DeV.

krattapopov

DeVore wrote:

Apparently the recent tournie in Kilcock was similarly light on prizes... They took in about 35,000 and paid out 10,000. Nice money if you can separate it from the fool currently holding it.

DeV.

someone should report that to the guards

MadsL

It will be a 270 man tournament making it the largest tournament to date in the UK or Ireland.

Err, the record is well over 300 players some years back at Punchestown.

Davey Devil

According to poker.ie there is re-buys/top-ups at this event, even though the organiser states earlier in this thread that there was going to be no re-buys. The plot thickens.


http://www.poker.ie/index.php?option=com_events&Itemid=93&task=view_detail&agid=18

poker.ie wrote:

Date : Wednesday 9th February
Venue : The Gresham Hotel, Dublin
Game : No Limit Texas Hold 'Em
Buy In : 20euros with re-buys/top ups
Prize Pool : Minimum 3,000euro +$500 and extras (see below)

evilbert

Footoes is basically wrong in everything he says and here's why.

9 euro registration fee - Thats assuming the prize fund stays at 3000 which it most likely won't. We have to start it small because we can't guarantee anything higher before the night. If we guarantee 5000 and only get 4000 then some character like footoes here would probably have something to say about it.

The value may not be as good as casinos but then this is a student event for students. We have costs they don't.

Find me a hotel that seats 270 people for under 1900 euro and i'll be very surprised.

Sponsored posters. we get half price posters for 50 cent each. Gimme a rough estimate of how much you think we need bearing in mind DIT DBS DCU and other colleges need them too.

The P.r.o has never been paid since the society began. We're probably the best advertised society in college with the resources we have.

We have to pay for a bar extension. Otherwise we have to finnish by twelve.

We Have to pay for food otherwise we can't get a bar extension.

The comitee don' take a penny of this money and i'm pretty sure you can ask for our bank account details from the college afterwards.

Footoes. Start thinking realistically about running a student event and don't bother wasting our time.

For everyone else ticket are on sale in trinity arts block from monday between 1 and 2.

Davey Devil

You never answered my question, is it a re-buy event or is it not? Also it doesn't say what time in the event starts at in your origional post. I ask that not because I'm going to play, I'm just interested on how your going to get a 270 man tourney finsihed in time.

Fantastopotamus

This will be a rebuy and top-up tournament and the prize fund will rise accordingly.
The event will start at seven P.M sharp so all should be there at about six.
Rebuys will last for an hour or 90 minutes with the blinds raising at in tervals of twenty or thirty minutes as in casinos.

evilbert

tickets are on sale everyday this week between 1 and 2 in the Arts Block & Hamilton buildings in Trinity College

johnor

how much are the tickets??

nevermind i presume the 9 yoyo price still stands.....

DeVore

9 euro registration fee - Thats assuming the prize fund stays at 3000 which it most likely won't. We have to start it small because we can't guarantee anything higher before the night. If we guarantee 5000 and only get 4000 then some character like footoes here would probably have something to say about it.

Actually to be fair, thats the whole POINT of the guarunteed prize events. That you guaruntee the players who travel a prize worth playing for while also encouraging other players to come and play. Thats a risk to you, yes but if you dont want that risk, dont guaruntee the fund, cos guarunteeing something tiny makes it sound like you are retricting it to that. There have been a LOT of heavily creamed tournies lately, the worst being Kilcock by the sounds of it. 36,000+ taken in and only 10K given out.

How much of the entry free is reg and how much is for the prize fund?

DeV.

cormie

It's not all about the odds though. Sure, you can find better value tournaments then this as first stated. But there are also great prizes been given away which add to the prize fund. €3,000 is the minimum that will be given out. There will also be $500 of online money to be won and not forgetting the VC prizes too. This all adds up. Special Days are also contributing great prizes too.

I remember the first (and only) poker.ie tournament. Luke (lafforteza) will tell you about it. He has said he really enjoyed it. There were about 30 people at it. The prize pool didn't reflect the buy in/amount of players. We did profit, but everyone still had a great time. Luke may not be so keen on such a tournament these days. This is because he has the opportunity to play in a Casino whenever he wants. Casinos give much better odds regarding prize pool/reg.

It's €20 to be part of a 270 man tournament. If this happened back in the day, I'm almost certain everyone on boards would be very excited and everyone who could make it, would go. As it has turned out, over the past 2 years or so allot of us have become more familiar with tournament styles, buy-ins etc. Bert has explained costs fairly. You have a choice of going or not. And you also have the chance to be crowned Dublin Student Poker Champion! Imagine the pride

DeVore

To be fair I dont feel like Evilbert has explained anything in his post except why Footoes is wrong. He didnt actually tell us the RIGHT answer.

20 euro rebuy tournie means that you can expect each player to pay 20 in, rebuy on average once and topup (I presume there is a top up if there are rebuys) . 60 a man so.... thats nearly 16000+

Now, I appreciate you have some costs but I'd like to know what I'm playing for BEFORE I sit down to play. I've run these things before myself (and been hauled over the coals to account for just a 150 notes as I recall) so I know whats involved. I'm just not happy to get to the end of the night, preferably as winner , and then for someone to "decide" how much I've won.

There are other questions I have, like how many will you be paying? Will it be self-dealt (I presume so). Who is going to be Tournament Director and do they know their arse from their elbow. Whats the reg and will the entire rest and the rebuys ALL be going to the fund? How much is likely to have to come from the fund to pay for the costs (you must have a reasonable idea of that at the moment, that at least gives everyone a rough guide to what they can expect).

DeV.

Fantastopotamus

Dev is fair enough in what he's saying and we fully understand why people may be worried about our prize fund. We can garauntee the money for everyone who has bought a ticket of whom there have been many so far.
However we cannot come up with a solid figure by which to raise the prize fund. Student events of this size have never been run. We certainly do not expect each player to spend 60 euro. 25 to 30 euro each would be optimistic in our eyes. This is not a casino event. Twenty euro is alot to a student and forty is an awful lot.
We haven't selected an event organiser yet though you can be sure we know our stuff. Dealers won't be provided until the last few tables and the prize fund is expected to span over the last two tables.

Lafortezza

You should also post up a list of the tournament rules, regarding blinds, tournament structure, special rules, if there's a ruling needed, etc.

DapperGent

Fantastopotamus wrote:

However we cannot come up with a solid figure by which to raise the prize fund. Student events of this size have never been run. We certainly do not expect each player to spend 60 euro. 25 to 30 euro each would be optimistic in our eyes. This is not a casino event. Twenty euro is alot to a student and forty is an awful lot.

This is why you absolutely cannot and should not guarantee a certain prize fund.

Online Casinos can do it becuase they would have enough stats on a given event to know their ballpark and will know that they cannot go broke. Brick and mortar casinos do it quite rarely from what I've seen, because a safe guaranteed prize fund is often ridiculously low.

Guarnateeing a prize fund for a once off event is complete madness. What happens if you don't get enough people to even generate 3k and pay your costs? Do you have €3000?

I really think what you're trying to do is cool and ambitious but you're simply not in a position to guarantee an prize fund.

RasTa

DapperGent wrote:

Guarnateeing a prize fund for a once off event is complete madness. What happens if you don't get enough people to even generate 3k and pay your costs? Do you have €3000?

Good point, i might buy 2 tickets for friday but i want to know the prize fund before i do ?

evilbert

The prize fund will be at least €3000. This is the risk we have taken on and we are prepared to cover it. i fully agree that guaranteed prize funds can be a problem but at the same time if you don't guarantee something, you won't generate interest or sell tickets.

DeVore

If you guaruntee something small you wont get the interest either. It would be better if you said "our costs are estimated to run to 1500, beyond that the prize fund will consist of all buy ins and rebuys minus that amount approximately. It will be paid in the following ratio:
1st: 42%
2nd: 22%
3rd: 12%
etc
etc
etc"


After that I can do my own maths.Cos right now it looks like I'm paying 60 Euro (likely spend) to win something about the 1500 mark but have to play through 270 players to get there. I too admire your moxy, this is just a bit of advice from someone who's been there!

DeV.

evilbert

That's all welland good DeVore but how do you suppose we fit all that onto a poster?

I've drawn up a draft prize payout structure & once i show it to our committee & everyone agrees on it, i'll post it here.


Again if anyone wants tickets e-mail cards@csc.tcd.ie

Dub13

Just a quick question....say a non student was to win it would they still be sent to the VC Student Poker grand final in London,if so it would be funny if a 60 year old was to win it.

jem

I have never played in one of these before but will be playing in this one. I wouldn't mind winning €1500 for a payout of circa €60 this is a 2400% profit. I will admit the crew of us that are heading up are "dead money" but we don't care to be honest, to us it is all about playing the game and having some fun. I would expect that the vast majority of players will also be in this position.
Best of luck in the event and I hope you do make money for your society, I am sure a lot of work will go into the organising of it.

Davey Devil

Haha, funny post.