You have to tail gate because...

Kersh

If you dont, someone dives into the 2 carlength gap every time (which isnt a very safe gap anyway at 70mph)....
Does anyone else get that at all, when you leave a 'safe' gap to the car in front some ****er dives in, thus making you drop back, then someone else does it and so on... :mad: and this at 60+ on motorways.
probably has a lot to do with irish drivers' brutal lane discipline..

fletch

Yeh I get this ALL the time.....but doesn't mean you have to "tail-gate" jus means you have to maintain a gap with the car in front such that you don't think that another motorist will try fit into it.

edmund_f

what happened to the 'only a fool breaks the two second rule' seems like there are lots of fools on the Irish roads?

fletch

It is really annoying though because when I'm in traffic I would rather keep a slow but steady pace than constantly starting and stopping. Whenever I try to do this, sum c#nt jumps into the space in front of me and I have to come to a standstill

Kersh

Ye Fletch, I get it a lot too, really annoys me. I try not to tail gate on mways, but when other traffic is acting the arse, sometimes you have to stick close.

edmund_f

fletch

to incur your complete wrath..

did not realise cu#ts could jump?.. thought they were drivers, and more importantly people?.. to me it sounds like you are constantly on the edge of road rage? remember these are not cars, they are people driving cars, if they cut you off they have either missed their lane, and are just human, or are genuienly wan#ers, and thus are not worth it.

you like to drive at a slow and steady pace, only others that seem to like doing that are truck drivers, so if this annoys you, you can (a) get over it (b) drive amongst the trucks in the slow lane (c) stop driving

Kersh

Edmund, hes talking about when he is in traffic, when everyone is going slow.
Whether it happens on an mway or street, other drivers should not suddenly jump into a 2 carlength space in front of your car....should they?

fletch

edmund_f wrote:

fletch

to incur your complete wrath..

did not realise cu#ts could jump?.. thought they were drivers,

Childish, as you and me both know this is a figure of speech :rolleyes:

edmund_f wrote:

you like to drive at a slow and steady pace, only others that seem to like doing that are truck drivers, so if this annoys you, you can (a) get over it (b) drive amongst the trucks in the slow lane (c) stop driving

As I said, I like to drive at a slow and steady pace "in traffic", if you had cared to read my post properly

edmund_f wrote:

.....the trucks in the slow lane

I seem to be unaware of the existence of such a lane, I'm guessing you call the overtaking/outside lane, the "fast lane"?

edmund_f

fletch,

your use of cu#t is more indicitiave of how you perceive other drivers, i was bringing your attention to the fact that they were in fact people, the 'cannot jump' is more my poor attempt at humour.


Traffic, be it stop start, or 20 mph, 60 mph whatever, the point still stands, if you tailgate you are increasing the risk of a multiple car accident. drivers cutting you off is something you do not have any control over, tailgating is not the answer. If you need to, call the Garda, that is their job, they are paid and trained to deal with these things.

you are technically correct regarding the fast lane/slow lane thing.

and yes, technically you should not make fast lane changes, there is no excuse for that, but it may be easier just to let them in?

alias no.9

What do people think of the idea of limiting roads to just one lane in each direction? The reason I ask is because the behaviour of many motorists, particularly in the greater dublin area, who refuse to use the left hand lane even when it is empty and therefore effectively turn a two lane road into the equivalent of a one lane road. Kersh, lane discipline is as much about using the leftmost lane that is available until you need to overtake as it is about ensuring there is a sufficient gap in the traffic to merge into an overtaking lane.

fletch

edmund_f wrote:

Traffic, be it stop start, or 20 mph, 60 mph whatever, the point still stands, if you tailgate you are increasing the risk of a multiple car accident.

Once again, if you had taken the time to adequately read my posts.....
Never once did I say that I tail-gate I said that you should

maintain a gap with the car in front such that you don't think that another motorist will try fit into it.

edmund_f wrote:

drivers cutting you off is something you do not have any control over, tailgating is not the answer. If you need to, call the Garda, that is their job, they are paid and trained to deal with these things.

Call the Gardaí while doing 70mph on the motorway ? .... I would call that more dangerous and a bit naive to think that a guard is going to follow up every complaint of somebody cutting somebody up given that there will be no proof

edmund_f wrote:

you are technically correct regarding the fast lane/slow lane thing.

I know, the fact that you called the inside lane, the slow lane would suggest to me that you are one of those motorists who think.....Oooh I am doing 70mph, that means I can sit out in the "fast lane"

edmund_f wrote:

and yes, technically you should not make fast lane changes, there is no excuse for that, but it may be easier just to let them in?

I have no problem letting people in, in front of me but 1 at a time

edmund_f

came across an interesting point regarding the people who drive in the 'fast' lane (or overtaking). If you are driving in the left lane, and someone happens to be driving slower in the 'fast' (or overtaking) lane, that is not your problem. you are driving legally, what they are doing is outside your contol.

Perhaps someone knows more about this and can perhaps clarify it?

as far as the one lane thing? nope, would not agreee with that at all. would agree with the Garda enforcing all the other road laws, not just speeding.

fletch

edmund_f wrote:

came across an interesting point regarding the people who drive in the 'fast' lane (or overtaking). If you are driving in the left lane, and someone happens to be driving slower in the 'fast' (or overtaking) lane, that is not your problem. you are driving legally, what they are doing is outside your contol.

Would have thought that would constitute undertaking provided both lanes weren't densely populated with cars?

edmund_f

fletch,

My apologies if you considered i was specifically accusing you of tailgating. I was using the term 'you' as being the person who was reading the message.

regarding phoning the Garda while doing 70 on a motorway, agreed, probably not a good idea unless you have a hands free,(just note the license plate number and time) but as far as the Garda not following it up, i did actually phone the traffic watch after someone cut me off, and it was followed up. Generally these drivers will continue to do this until they get a quiet word from some Garda somplace, and if they get a number of complaints about the same driver then they can do something about it.

Dont knock it until you have tried it

I always thought my road manners were okay, but if you could let me know when i was sitting in the 'fast' (or overtaking) lane while not actually overtaking i will be happy to accept your critism

Generally i believe if people actually start recognising that drivers are people and capeable of a mistake, and just occasionally give people a bit of slack, the roads will be a safer better place for all, and for the others, let the Garda sort that out, it is not my job. The only thing you can do it drive to the best of your ability, and if that is not good enough realise you should not be on the road (you, not meaning you personally Fletch)

alias no.9

The one lane thing was not a serious suggestion, I was merely trying to illustrate the point that there are lots of drivers out there who are prepared to effectively reduce an expensively constructed motorway to a single line of traffic by sitting in the overtaking lane when there is one or more lanes to the left of them that are free. If people like Kersh obeyed the rules of the road, people would be able to merge into the overtaking lane when they need to overtake, merge back into the left hand lane after they had overtaken the car/van/truck and Kersh could return to his business of being stuck to the arse of the car in front which in all probability will be the same car he had been stuck to before the whole incident meaning he in effect had not lost any time. However, we live in a country where some peoples greatest fear, I'm looking at you Kersh, is that there will be a car in front of them for the entire period of time it takes to pass one car, creating difficulty for anyone who follows correct lane discipline to overtake when they do encounter an occasional slow car. This difficulty in overtaking means that people are discouraged from following correct lane discipline and hog the overtaking lane, creating long lines of traffic in the overtaking lane, making it even more difficult for the driver following correct lane discipline to overtake when necessary, creating the frustration that causes them to 'jump' into they only gap they've seen in about 10 cars, causing poor kersh to have to slow down marginally and the whole sorry cycle continues causing even more congestion, slowing everybody down.

In short Kersh, you're the problem not the solution.

Kersh

Alias...I never said that I did tail gate, I said you end up because whenever you leave a gap, someone fills it, thus making you back off etc etc etc.
Very few ppl in this country actually do 70 in the slow lane, so the only place at 5-8 pm on m50 to go anywhere near 70 is the outside lane. Thats where I do be, leaving a safe gap...til someone fills it by jumping lanes w/out indicating...and then I end up tailgating by default, so I am not the problem, I was asking did anyone else get ppl diving into their lane at the faintest whiff of a gap....

alias no.9

Kersh wrote:

Ye Fletch, I get it a lot too, really annoys me. I try not to tail gate on mways, but when other traffic is acting the arse, sometimes you have to stick close.

Anyone else want to offer an interpretation of this? Even if you try to weasel out of it like a shinner, you're advocating tailgating.

landser

i only tailgate if i'm getting ready to overtake.

i realised a good time ago that i didn't own that stretch of raod between me and the car in front. if some fookwit wants to squeeze in, let him.

if someone tailgates me (usually scangers or auld fellas), in town, or on a dangerous stretch of road, even when i'm going fast, i slow down! i'm not a slow driver but these **** sittin on your bumper are awful gob****es. drives them mad. great fun, albeit a bit dangerous

alias no.9

Just to add a little more prespective Kersh, you're travelling northbound on the M50 from the toll booths to swords, since it's listed as your location, between 5 and 8. Over this distance, a total of 10 cars join the overtaking lane between you and whatever car is in front of you, at various points along the route. People exiting at blanch will hardly be moving across though, you'd never know, but for fairness we'll say they won't. Maybe 3 or 4 of the cars will exit at either the finglas or ballymun exits, maybe 1 will merge back into the left hand lane, when you get to the end of the M50 2 keep going for the N32 the rest head round towards the airport/M1/swords, now they can't all be going to swords can they? By the time they have taken their respective lanes for wherever they are going, how many will be still in front of you in the same lane when you get to the first standstill, be it a junction/traffic lights/roundabout, 1 maybe 2 of the cars? So the whole thing has impacted you by about 30 to 50 feet. Man, that's gotta hurt :rolleyes:

Kersh

Ye Landser , I do that too, really pisses them off.
Alias,
I move over into left lane just after the ballymun exit, when the lane isnt full of filtering traffic.
Then most ppl slow down to 60 for the speed camera (why), then off the Mway...

Kersh

Besides, like I have said, I DONT TAILGATE unless some fukwit pulls in front of me into a space without indicating, and the space is obviously my safe distance,,,then I suppose i would be tailgating, but then why should i back off cos of some inconsiderate tit.
Sometimes you end up tailgating cos of this, then the speeder comes up and joins the queue behind you....It happens at least once every night on my way home...always.

JohnCleary

edmund_f wrote:

what happened to the 'only a fool breaks the two second rule' seems like there are lots of fools on the Irish roads?

here here

Squirrel

fletch wrote:

Would have thought that would constitute undertaking provided both lanes weren't densely populated with cars?

The law actually states that yuo are not allowed pass on the inside lane unless the traffic in the outside lane is moving slower. It was supposed to mean in slow moving traffic on 2 lane roads but because of its ambiguity undertaking is technically legal

Kersh

Happened again today. Yet, I have driven across UK to every circuit many times, and I drove my latest acquisition from London to Holyhead only 2 months ago, and yet in all those times (about 30), it has happened only a handful of times. Its Irish drivers- compared to UK drivers- they are brutal, absolutely brutal. Probably has something to do with various licence amnesties through the years.
Cant wait til the M50 goes 3 lane, boy wont it be fun seeing ppl crossing 2 lanes in one go cos there exit is coming up a bit quick...

edmund_f

Kersch,
Good point, and a fair one i think.. use the darwinian principle to kill off all the bad drivers. Would happen faster than the irish goverment actually doing something about it

Kersh

Lol, reckon you are right edmind...

alias no.9

Kersh wrote:

Besides, like I have said, I DONT TAILGATE unless some fukwit pulls in front of me into a space without indicating, and the space is obviously my safe distance,,,then I suppose i would be tailgating, but then why should i back off cos of some inconsiderate tit.
Sometimes you end up tailgating cos of this, then the speeder comes up and joins the queue behind you....It happens at least once every night on my way home...always.

So a driver pulls in front of you, obviously a bad driver since he/she made a lane change where there wasn't sufficient room and never indicated, and your reaction is to tailgate this bad driver who is likely to do anything at any time without warning?

Kersh

With h/lights blazing too. Ah no not really. yes I will let him know Im there, then drop back....it just annoys me. I might try it on a few ppl myself, surely you would agree there, since you seem to support the dangerous driver by lambasting me....

alias no.9

Kersh wrote:

Happened again today. Yet, I have driven across UK to every circuit many times, and I drove my latest acquisition from London to Holyhead only 2 months ago, and yet in all those times (about 30), it has happened only a handful of times. Its Irish drivers- compared to UK drivers- they are brutal, absolutely brutal. Probably has something to do with various licence amnesties through the years.
Cant wait til the M50 goes 3 lane, boy wont it be fun seeing ppl crossing 2 lanes in one go cos there exit is coming up a bit quick...

Having also driven in the UK, I've always found lane discipline and general courtesy over there to be far better than here. People don't hog the overtaking lane(s). When you come up behind a slow car, you check your mirrors, indicate, check your mirrors again and hey presto, somebody has backed off a little to let you move across to overtake the slow car.

alias no.9

Kersh wrote:

With h/lights blazing too. Ah no not really. yes I will let him know Im there, then drop back....it just annoys me. I might try it on a few ppl myself, surely you would agree there, since you seem to support the dangerous driver by lambasting me....

I don't support the dangerous driver but when I do encounter one, I try to give them enough room so that any mistakes they may make will not end up taking me out too, then as soon as is safe, I pass them and move on. There seems to be an attitude in this country that if you're driving in the overtaking lane that nobody should ever get to join it ahead you you. It's as if people are so paranoid that they believe that the only reason somebody would ever want to move across in front of them is to slow them down as opposed to actually wanting to move along with the faster moving traffic. This is as much a part of the problem as the drivers jumping across. You don't own the road, you share it with other road users.

Ponder this if you will...

"You have to jump lanes erratically, into spaces that really aren't big enough for you to fit into, without indicating, because every time you've tried indicating, whatever pratt who's coming along in the right hand lane will immediately close that gap even further if you dare to indicate"

I don't for a second advocate doing the above, but it's no more ludicrous than what you're suggesting.

Kersh

hmmm, true, but it doesnt really explain why none of this stuff happens in the UK. Surely it must be driver education....really and truly it must be, either its cos learners are on the mway, or cos of the amnesties.
That said if someone indicates I will always let them in, but if a car s 'body language' says its gonna pull in, then I will close the gap, always. I am mannerly on the roads, I expect it in return....

alias no.9

Kersh wrote:

hmmm, true, but it doesnt really explain why none of this stuff happens in the UK. Surely it must be driver education....really and truly it must be, either its cos learners are on the mway, or cos of the amnesties.

Driver education, but only for other people, 'cos you don't come across for a minute as a potential perpitrator of road rage :eek:

Kersh wrote:

That said if someone indicates I will always let them in, but if a car s 'body language' says its gonna pull in, then I will close the gap, always. I am mannerly on the roads, I expect it in return....

So you think playing a game of chicken will help the situation, do you? All it takes is for the other driver to have the same won't back down attitude for a high speed pile up to occur. If a car's body language says its gonna pull in, then it's a hazard and so caution should be observed.

Kersh

I race cars every other weekend...backing down doesnt happen...
You know the drivers Im talking about..chancers. Hate them. Really do.
Like I said, all it takes is an indicator, I indicate..

Seth Brundle

Kersh wrote:

hmmm, true, but it doesnt really explain why none of this stuff happens in the UK. Surely it must be driver education....really and truly it must be, either its cos learners are on the mway, or cos of the amnesties.

Comparing here to the UK is like comparing chalk & cheese. We don't have:-
1. an adequate driver licencing system
2. an adequate driving training system
3. an adequate enforcement system

people in the UK know they will get pulled for bad driving. Jebus, the police will even do you for eating a kit kat at the wheel! Therefore people do drive more carefully there. A friend of mine living in the UK, who drives a performance car, to my surprise drives so much more carefully, now that he is over there compared to when he lived here, as he knows that it isn't worth his while because he will easily get points.

edit: what/where do you race Kersh?

Kersh

Race vees, here and done 2 years in UK, instructor at Mondello too, you out and about there at all.....

Seth Brundle

going off topic here!

I marshal at mondello (or at least did until new son arrived a year ago). I also organise some private track days there (next one March 26th on Intl. track).

Kersh

Might drag the 911 out for a track day. Poor thing is lying idle for winter. Could bring the zx tt out, reckon a set of tyres would last 3 laps.....
will you be out marshalling this year..

Seth Brundle

The date above Im organising will be a 1/2 day - the other 1/2 is taken by the Porsche club!

Kersh wrote:

will you be out marshalling this year..

I'll see if Im allowed!

Squirrel

The best thing to do if someone is tailgating you during the day is to turn on your headlights, the red lights suddenly coming on scares the sh1t out of the person tailgating you

joehig

Kersh wrote: »

If you dont, someone dives into the 2 carlength gap every time (which isnt a very safe gap anyway at 70mph)....
Does anyone else get that at all, when you leave a 'safe' gap to the car in front some ****er dives in, thus making you drop back, then someone else does it and so on... :mad: and this at 60+ on motorways.
probably has a lot to do with irish drivers' brutal lane discipline..

What do you mean Irish drivers ? Ive driven in Spain Germany Belgium and Italy and they are absolute luanatics... give the Irish a break

Mycroft H

joehig wrote: »

What do you mean Irish drivers ? Ive driven in Spain Germany Belgium and Italy and they are absolute luanatics... give the Irish a break

one from the archives? Thread is eight years old :-)

denhaagenite

.

biko

Bringing up an old thread to continue arguing is like a girlfriend recalling something you said many years ago.
It's something we can live without.