Another bit of a moan :)

Blitzkrieger

Just saw an ad on TV : "At just 5mph over the 30mph limit it takes an extra 21ft to stop". Does it ******! I doubt it takes much more than 21ft to stop from 35mph, never mind an extra 21 feet. A Garda once told me a general rule would be 10ft for every 10mph, and even a little less than at lower speeds (less than 60mph). So maybe an extra 5ft, probably a little more, but certainly not 21 ft.

I'm getting really ****ed off at these blatant lies in government sponsered advertising. In this case it's the british goverment but the Irish goverment is just as guilty. I saw an ad on Irish TV recently claiming that speed is the number one cause of accidents. More ******! Research has shown that speed is a contributing factor in less than 10% of accidents. The phrase "contributing factor" is a direct quote, suggesting that it's not the sole cause.

The leading cause was driver inattention. I've said here before that the most common type of accident is at a T-junction, when a driver turning right doesn't check the way is clear and drives straight out in front of someone. Even if you're only doing 30mph you won't be able to stop if someone drives straight out in front of you. Another popular type of accident is common in a long queue of traffic. Someone just isn't paying attention and drives straight into the back of someone else. Yet another is featured in the latest Direct Line ad. People not paying attention approaching traffic lights of pedestrian crossings and can't stop in time. All driver inattention.

Also mentioned were various poor driving habits. Following too closely, not using indicators, using the wrong lane at the roundabout, poor overtaking, etc. Sometime around April there was a survey done on road signs. Less than 10% of people correctly identified the "end of dual carriageway" signs. 65% couldn't tell a clearway sign from a pedestrian zone. Here's a hint : THE ****ING CLEARWAY SIGN IS CLEAR! While they were discussing it, a woman phoned into 96fm to voice her disgust at the general lack of knowledge, then when questioned, didn’t know how to go around a roundabout properly.

Personally I was amazed drink driving didn't feature more. There's four pubs within spitting distance of my house. If I look out the window at 10:30, the street is half empty of cars. If I look again at 11, there's not a parking space for miles. Look again at 1am and the place is deserted. You see the same thing happen in the city and you know damn well none of them have dedicated drivers. Granted they're only having 3 or 4 rather than getting totally ****ed and driving home, but they're still a risk. All that money on drink driving campaigns worked a treat, didn't it?

But nowadays it's all speed, speed, speed. "Speed Kills." "Slow down boys." That last one is my personal favourite. At first glance it seems like it didn't apply to me, because I'm not a boy, but of course it is aimed at my age group. It's what every young man wants to hear, shortly after becoming a man and accepting all the responsibilities, etc., blah, blah, blah, : some patronising ***** indicative of society’s attitude as a whole ordering you to "slow down boys". Now I drive pretty safely and responsibly but I would be tempted to go buy the biggest **** off Overdrive system I could, attach lead weights to my shoe and take the spring out of my well-oiled accelerator pedal out of sheer spite! Also, the worst examples of speeding I’ve seen were on my way to and from Shannon recently, and almost all by people who were 30+ (there was one tit about 17 years old).

They've even got the Gardai out to clamp down on speeders. They've even given them quota's of speeding fines to give out. This is another fine example of pure genius by our goverment for three glaringly obvious reasons. For starters I’d much rather the Gardai were out investigating and preventing real crimes, rather than writing me a ticket for doing 48mph in a 40mph zone.

Another point is trying to catch speeders is not the same as preventing speeding. While the TV ads are proving a miserable failure at trying to get people to not speed because it’s dangerous, the only reason most people would slow down is in case they’re caught. You might think that this is success, but there’s an important difference. While they might slow down in areas they think there might be a speed trap, they will go just as fast, if not faster, once they are past the “danger”. It’s become a game to learn where the speed cameras are and avoid the speed traps.

There’s probably more good reasons, but my final point is that speeding is not always dangerous. You only have to look at a motorway to see that doing 70mph in certain situations is not dangerous, and it doesn’t always have to be motorway conditions either. In certain situations going slowly is actually dangerous, illustrated by the fact that in America and the UK you can get a ticket for driving too slowly. This topic has more examples : http://www.boards.ie/community/Forum5/HTML/000027.html . I can’t be arsed giving any more.

At the end of the day I’d like to see accidents and road deaths reduced as much as anyone, but speeding is not the cause and stopping speeding is not the solution. Better driver training is the answer. There’s people out there with no business behind the wheel. There’s even some who never took a driving test. I think we should be forced to take a tougher driving test every 5 years. I certainly wouldn’t want to, but I think it would be a big step in the right direction.

I also think it’s time to look into automatic cars. It would be expensive but I think it would be worth it. They could travel faster, safer, with less distance between them. Combined with traffic systems the throughput for any given road would increase dramatically. No more stress. No more road rage. Less traffic jams. Shorter journey times. Almost zero accidents. Almost zero injuries. Almost zero fatalities. On top of that, without having to worry about driving, you gain extra time. Extra time to read a newspaper, or go online with mobile telecommunications, watch a film, etc.. What’s not to like?


[This message has been edited by Blitzkrieger (edited 08-09-2001).]

El Marco

I agree with all your rant posts, but man you have too much time on your hands
Actualy your points are good enough for public attention, like a news paper. Serious.

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Wow big castle.......think he's making up for something?

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Manach

I'd love to recommend public transport as a viable alternative.
Except for the fact that it is poor fare. The city buses, esp now as children are back at school, are overcrowded & seldom arrive on time.

The train service hardly seems to be utilised, but this is hardly surprising, for the communter service I rely on to get to work was only on time once this week.

The upcoming No-car day which is upcoming seems only to be an another cheap Government publicity gimmick.

Finally Blitzkreiger has made alot of good points in his intial post that I'd agree with.

chernobyl

The distance to stop is depandent on the car,road conditions etc.


A Ferrari F50 is gonna stop more quickly, if it was going 60mph when compared to a Toyota corolla going 30mph.
Why?
quality of brakes, weight of car etc.

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Ashley Lyn

Ashley Lyn Cafagna

yellum

Blitz where are you getting your stats from ?

Xterminator

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
For starters I’d much rather the Gardai were out investigating and preventing real crimes, rather than writing me a ticket for doing 48mph in a 40mph zone.

I agree with many of the points in your post, but i highlighted the above passage for a reason.

Speeding is a contributary factor in so many crashes. I personally agree that speeders should be fined. I belive in speed cameras on the motorways, highway and byways, until everyone who speeds has to pay so much money to the court, they cant afford petrol, and they stop driving. Then they wont be a danger any more.

I think we should have a specific traffic police force here, dedicated to improving the appaling driving on the roads. Then the old excuse "don't you have anything better to do" would not be trotted out to the guards,each time they enforce the laws!

Every driver who runs a red light, or acts dangerously on the road seems to trot out this excuse.

Guess what! If your in a 40 zone, that is the MAXIMUM speed you are allowed. Not the average.

I think one of the most important battles we need to win, before we can reduce the no's of deaths in Ireland, is to change the attitudes of the drivers. I look forward to penalty points on peoples licenses, as they will have to change their habits, or be banned.

Thks

X

Blitzkrieger

I understand your point about speeding not being safe, and of course the faster you go the more danger you (and everyone else) are in, but it's not always that much more dangerous.

In the case of that ticket, I don't believe I was driving dangerously at all. It was at the end of a dual carrigeway (for the Cork lads it was at Tivoli) the bastid set up specifically to catch people going a few mph over the limit. The 40mph sign is on a bend, then you went onto a long straight were you have plenty of time to slow down before coming to any hazards. He was effectivly enforcing the speed limit with zero tolerance.

The notion of zero tolerance enforcement was discussed and rejected in England, on the basis that it would do more harm than good. Would you really want people to be looking at their speedo all the time instead of the road?

If he wanted to catch people driving dangerously, he would have set up further in towards the city. The fact was he wanted a few quick speeding tickets to make his quota, and found an easy spot to do it. Would you really rather I was focusing on the 40mph sign and my speedometer than the road?

If he wanted an even easier time of it, he should have set up in the opposite direction. The "national speed limit" sign on the outbound dual carrigeway is more than half-way along, probably because there's all sorts of restraunts and private homes off it. People don't seem to be aware of this though and speed along it at anywhere from 70-90mph. Do you think I should obey the speed limit here? Going slowly on that stretch of road you're a hazard. People will be anxious to over-take you, and probably not do so safely. If I did, I'd have a queue of traffic behind me, and catch someone doing 90 by surprise. I'd be more likely to cause an accident than prevent one.

Also, of course speed is a contributing factor to the severity of all accidents, but it's not a leading cause of accidents. As it says in my initial post, driver inattention is the leading cause. If someone doesn't look where they're going, and drives right out in front of you, it doesn't matter if you're going 40 or 48mph, you're going to plow into them regardless. There's no point in saying "if you had been going slower you might have stopped". If you were going slower some other pillock might have driven right out in front of you.

Right so - extreme example time. On the east Cork parkway near my house there's a half-mile stretch of straight road, which is actually used for drag racing from time to time (i.e. closed for drag racing - not the other kind ). Got knows what speed they got up to but I know it was 200mph plus. If this stretch of road is absolutly clear, would it be unsafe to go the motorway speed limit of 70mph? Of course it wouldn't. Depending on the car you'd go anything up to 120mph on a wide, clear road quite safely. If it was a particularly good car you'd go even faster and still be quite safe.

So, what if there was just one car ahead of you? Wouldn't it still be safe? What I'm leading to is something akin to German Autobahns. There's no speed limit on some stretches of the Autobahns but there isn't a particularly high number of accidents. Why? Because speed itself is not the problem.

As I've said before, I don't trust any of 'ye bastids to drive a car properly I'd like to see self-driving cars introduced.

They have a penalty points system in England and it's bollox. You could get disqualified for getting five speeding tickets in four years. Even in you drive quite safely, you only need a slight lapse in concentration to get a speeding ticket, and five times in four years isn't that unlikely at all.

On the subject of red lights - here's another extreme example. Last summer I was working the night shift most of the time, and would often drive home about 4:30 - 5:00am, through the city center. The place would be absolutly deserted, not a soul in sight. Would you have had me sit and wait at every traffic light when I can see there's nothing coming?


Btw - most of my stats come from an article in the Times printed mid-January, so while they are a little out of date, most of them are from long-term studies and aren't likely to have changed much either way since.

jaarius

blitz... you know that cork is a pedestrian city. ive been in the city centre at that time of night/morning and had to jump back on to the footpath cause some loon had decided that it was safe.

i think that when you get a ticket you should pay the fine and thats that. if you do it a second time the law should come out to you house and clamp the car in your drive way fo a week and come back and release the clamp!

also this youger drivers are more dangerous drivers might be true but look how easy it is to get a provisional license. i like the idea of those special traffic cops. they could pull over learners when they want and say that if they dont have a licensed driver with them in the car that they are UBERfined.

just my 2p


j

the fnj

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger


The leading cause was driver inattention. I've said here before that the most common type of accident is at a T-junction, when a driver turning right doesn't check the way is clear and drives straight out in front of someone. Even if you're only doing 30mph you won't be able to stop if someone drives straight out in front of you.

OK so your driving along and some idiot pulls out in front of you in similar style to what you discribed above. Would you prefer to go crashing into them at 60mph or 30mph???

This is why there trying to get people to slow down. Driving fast is all well and good and 99% of the time nothing happens but your still running the risk that if somone pulls out in front of you or if a child runs out in front of you. If you tyre blows out at 70mph your toast.

Everybody on the roads is in too much of a hurry. People need to learn to relax and enjoy driving instead of booting around to they don't miss the start of the favourite soap.

gandalf

Lads,

Speed is the major reason we have such a high level of fatal accidents end of story. People need to calm down and realise that a car is a lethal weapon. The speed limits are there for a reason, 30mph in a urban area with pedestrians, children etc is perfectly reasonable.

I have a driving thru town story at 4am as well (Dublin this time). I was heading out to Dublin airport to pick up some people, I was heading up Dorset Street towards Drumcondra, at one of the crossroads with the lights green for me around 100 Metres ahead of me a Taxi broke the lights from the Right hand side at speed obviously thinking no-one was there, I was lucky if I was any closer I would have hit him. You follow the rules of the road no-matter what time it is, if you don't then you are a dangerous driver !

People need to change their attitudes. We need a Full Time Traffic Police force. Stop blaming Provisional Drivers, their are loads of Fully Licensed bad drivers out there too, I see them in action every day. A friend of mine was driving his brothers (who is a learner) car recently with the L plate showing, he said the pure aggression that he got from other Drivers because they thought he was a learner was unbelieveable including overtaking him on a stretch of road where there was no overtaking allowed!! With a full time Traffic Police force we can start weeding out these idiots as well.

This is similar situation to driving on Motorways in this country. I always keep to the speed limits, but I always see idiots overtaking me at speed on dualers but when I get to the next town theres the gimp 2 or 3 cars ahead of me, what was the point of him speeding.

Gandalf.

Victor

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
I also think it’s time to look into automatic cars.

Maybe we could give the job to some windoze '95 programmers?

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I've been on the road 13 years. I have had two accidents in which I hit cars that pulled out of side roads, when they weren't looking. Once I hit someone's rear bumper - didn't scratch it. I think I bumped someone's mirror once. No tickets (***at all***), no fines, no prosecutions, no endorsements. Mileage has varied up to about 40 miles a day.

I'm a cyclist.

yellum

I would think inattention might be the cause of most accidents but the speed is what causes the deaths. A small increase in speed increases the cars momentum a great deal more.

A guy called Vivian Foley wrote a book on car safety in Ireland. He has unbiased statistics, unlike many that are fed to the press about road accidents from car companies. The book should be a compulsory read for all drivers. Its scary.

As for complaining about speeding tickets and red lights late at night. The law is the law. Its not up for debate, if you wish to bring it up as a matter of debate call on your local TD. If everyone had the attitude that the road rules could be bent in the "right circumstances" more road deaths would ensue.

Also remember its a speed limit. The maxiumum you are allowed to travel, its not the recommended driving speed.

The autobahns in Germany are not very safe. There are many deaths on the autobahns due to high speed. The faster the speed the less reaction time you have and the more momentum you carry.

Also you talk about inattention, how'd you get that ticket again ? Were you not paying attention to the road signs ? Was this the first time you traveled this road or did you travel previously? Did you notice the sign at all ? If you didn't then you were not paying attention which from your stats is the leading cause of accidents.

If you knew the speed limit beforehand theres no excuse. You knew you were breaking the law when you were going down that road.

Victor

Originally posted by yellum
As for complaining about ...red lights late at night. The law is the law.

To extend this, yes bank robberies are also illegal at night. Damn!

WhiteWashMan

today, at least, i think your moans are small time. unfortunately

Blitzkrieger

Too small fry atm - I'll reply in a few days, but you're all wrong

nesf

I'd agree on the bull**** over stopping distances. In the rules of the road book it actually gives a distance for reaction time. Like pls, that is something that varies hughely according to numerous factors, age, eyesight, visibility, experience etc.

I drive at the speed I'm comfortable at. I'll drive 60ish on roads I know well, but I never exceed 70, but i never drive fast in town or in 40 zones etc. Except for idiotic ones that you have to enter at a higher speed or you'll obstruct traffic behind you, e.g. the 40 mph zone before the roundabout on the cork-mallow road.

yellum

Originally posted by Victor


To extend this, yes bank robberies are also illegal at night. Damn!

Lol.

Victor

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
Just saw an ad on TV : "At just 5mph over the 30mph limit it takes an extra 21ft to stop". Does it ******! I doubt it takes much more than 21ft to stop from 35mph, never mind an extra 21 feet. A Garda once told me a general rule would be 10ft for every 10mph, and even a little less than at lower speeds (less than 60mph). So maybe an extra 5ft, probably a little more, but certainly not 21 ft.

I think he might have said 10 metres per 10 mph - are you suggesting you could go from 20mph to stopped in the length and a half of a car - or from 60mph to stopped in the length of a articulated truck?

Blitzkrieger

You're just not listening!

If you get people to stick to the speed limit and generally drive slower, there will be a reduction in accidents, injuries and fatalities - but not a major one. A campaign to reduce speed is not the same as a campaign to reduce accidents, simply because speed has been found not to be the cause of most accidents.

If you want less road deaths, the solution is increased driver training. I also see a lot of people who still don't wear seat belts. Most of my friends won't wear a seat belt while I'm driving them, because it's seen as having no confidence in the driver. Cheers lads, but I always wear mine! Also, a quick drive around town and you'll see any number of kids not in a proper child seat, or again not wearing any safety belt at all.

To illustrate my point - I almost had an accident yesterday. I was coming to a T-juntion, intending to turn right off the main road. Their was a Polo with a L-plate parked just beyond the junction on the side road I was intending to turn down. The L-plate driver wasn't using any indicators and I was watching him, unsure if he was parking or moving off or what. While I wasn't paying attention, a car moved off from in front of the shoping centre (again without indicating) and I was a split second away from pulling right accross in front of him.

The cause of this near accident was not speed. The combined speed of all three vehicles probably wasn't much above the 30mph speed limit, but I was nearly involved in an accident, mainly due to my inattention, and partially due to their poor driving habits. These are the most prevalent cause of accidents and this is what we must tackle.


P.S. That Garda did say feet - not metres. I think he was talking about 40mph and under though. At 10mph you'd stop in much less than 10ft. At 20mph you'd still stop in less than 20ft but at 60 you wouldn't stop in 60ft. At 40mph it'd be about right though.

P.P.S. I did know I was going above the speed limit when I got the ticket. My argument was that speeding is not always unsafe, and while it is a cause of some accidents, it is not the main cause and shouldn't be treated as such.

gandalf

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
You're just not listening!

..snipped..

To illustrate my point - I almost had an accident yesterday. I was coming to a T-juntion, intending to turn right off the main road. Their was a Polo with a L-plate parked just beyond the junction on the side road I was intending to turn down. The L-plate driver wasn't using any indicators and I was watching him, unsure if he was parking or moving off or what. While I wasn't paying attention, a car moved off from in front of the shoping centre (again without indicating) and I was a split second away from pulling right accross in front of him.

Well as far as I can see hardly anyone indicates any more. And some people even forget to turn off their indicators after coming off roundabouts (when they do use them). Where I live the road to get me out on the main road is 15-20 metres away from a roundabout and I have nearly had 2 accidents recently because idiots don't turn off their indicators after coming off the roundabout.

The cause of this near accident was not speed. The combined speed of all three vehicles probably wasn't much above the 30mph speed limit, but I was nearly involved in an accident, mainly due to my inattention, and partially due to their poor driving habits. These are the most prevalent cause of accidents and this is what we must tackle.

Thats why we need Traffic Police. Have them out on the roads looking out for this kind of thing and get them to pull over people who are not following the rules of the road. That will improve standards rapidally.

..snipped..

P.P.S. I did know I was going above the speed limit when I got the ticket. My argument was that speeding is not always unsafe, and while it is a cause of some accidents, it is not the main cause and shouldn't be treated as such. [/B]

Yes it may not be the main cause of accidents but you can be damn sure its the main cause of Fatal accidents. Lets sort that out 1st and then move onto the other problems you have talked about.

Gandalf.