Do you believe in the paranormal, aliens or black magic?

phobos

This is something that I have given some though to over the years. Since I am facinated with space and astronomy I can't help but feel that we are completely ignorant to say that we are alone in the universe. There has been the whole incident with Roswell, UFO sightings, abductions, missing time etc. But just as some of us get excited by the new discovery, someone else comes along and proves it to be B U L L S H I T.

On the topic of ghosts I am a bit more of a skeptic, and tend not to belive in the subject that much. But black magic on the otherhand is the most freaky and unexplainable thing that I have ever experienced firsthand. That is something that a group of friends and I used to partake in, during slumber parties in our teens. But TBH it completely scared the bejesus out of me back then and as a result I don't bother with it anymore.

Have any of you played with the Oija Board, or done anything similar. Let us know and hopefully enough feedback might be able to paint a better picture for all of us.

TIA
;-phobos-)

Asok

i experience lost time i go to the pub and BLAM its the next morning all i know is i wake up in a field everytime ... coincidence! lol

Manach

As soon as proof is published in Scientific journals for any of the above & not as a side article in the Sun.

chernobyl

Scientific explanation in 1500BC.."shes a witch"

Scientific explanation in 2000BC.."shes just blonde"

im open minded, but magic, no, paranormal activity, no.
There is a scientific explanation for every event that occurs, its just sometimes our science is not evolved enough to explain it.

now im off to watch "The Beach".
cya.

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Ashley Lyn

Ashley Lyn Cafagna



[This message has been edited by chernobyl (edited 02-09-2001).]

T.G Catter

David Blaine and his weird ways freak me out...

DEmeant0r

I too am facinated about space and teh universe, I believe that there are aliens, some shows on discovery channel have proved that with some alien artifacts or other. Black magic, I don't really think is real.

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

Magic/paranormal behavior- no, I don't believe in it. If it can't be reasoned to a logical conclusion, then it has no beginning, as Descartes would say.

As for aliens, it's not a matter of belief but probability assessment- and it's likely that there are- and at least as "intelligent" as us.

Most of David Blaine's hokum can be explained by simple sleight of hand, a good knowledge of human/child psycology, and the good ol' fashioned TV "con".

Occy

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Tonight's guests include: The Reverend Unseemly Dogposture, and friend; Dame Miss Celia Gnomestrangler, and gnome; and the Women's Over-80 Nudist Auxillary Rock-Climbing squad...and what a site they are...

chernobyl

There was a show on tv a while ago that showed how David Blaine did all his "street magic", i have since to see good o'l david make any more TV shows.

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Ashley Lyn

Ashley Lyn Cafagna

Farls

on a side note i also watched "The Beach" very good movie and i want that french burd in it.

Now back on topic, for starters i thought it was spelt Ouiji Board not Oija but i might and probably am wrong. I would have to say I believe in all that you mention except Black Magic because i have never really been interested in it basically. Theres too many incidents and sightings for you not to believe in Aliens, the same with Ghosts.

What about poltergeists???...i remember back about 6 months watching a movie on sky about a poltergeist terrorising a woman and her family...i mean it actually raped her and followed her everywhere she went, not only did it do this but also it was caught yes, you heard me caught as in trapped...this was achieved by putting the woman in a massive lab which was actually a reconstruction of her house but with no roof and over the house a LOT of liquid nitrogen was stored, in the house there was one small corner that was shielded from this when she stepped in there she was safe and the nitrogen was dropped. She lived in the house for a while and then one night the paranormal happened and the poltergeist came to her and she ran in the corner and the nitrogen was dropped and it did actually trap the poltergeist but only for a short while 5/6 seconds i think...then it broke the "mould" and the lab collapsed. I thought it a very good movie then at the end it stated that it was actually "A TRUE STORY" i didn't believe it so i looked the woman up on the net and sure as i'm going to get drunk next weekend there was a website on her. This experiment took place in front of a LOT of scientists and to this day they have no answer for what excactly happened altho the woman was still alive the last time i checked and she was living in America still being abused by the poltergeist.

My problem is i can't remember the movies name or the womans name so i'm going to search the net for her and i'll post a link if i can find the site again.

Ghosts do exist, wheather you want to believe it or not frankly i dont care but i know some ppl who have seen ghosts and i have a lot of stories (real ones) about them which i believe. Another thing i often wonder about is Banshee's you know the "thing" the howls the night before a death is imminent, i remember listening to a radio station them once on FM 104.4 where numerous ppl rang in saying they'd heard/seen them. All in all Ireland is a strange place for these things, especially rural Ireland so many religious and barbarric things happened on these soils over the years you'd wonder like.

I've never tried the Ouiji board for the simple reason i'm too afraid too, i know two girls that went to my first secondary school with me who actually went demented and had to seek psychological help after doing it.

This is a massive subject you have touched on I'm wondering wheather i should even mention dreams anyone ever had an out-of-body experience?. These things absolute amaze me everything got to do with the paranormal and the likes...things that science pretend don't exist.

looking fwd to hearing more on these subjects

Farls

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The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

phobos

Thank you Farls, @ last someone who can post something other than: "I'm a total skeptic and won't entertain this thread". No offense guys but I think these topics are much more interesting than: I'm a better CS player and know so much more than you do type threads.

Anyway here is the movie that Farls was talking about. Twas called Entity", and it was in fact an excellent movie.

I can agree with most of what people have said so far, but I still think you are not being so open minded. Or else you don't want to, I dunno. Let's take for example when I was younger we were messing around with the Ouiji (correct spelling) Board. We were asking it stupid questions and nothing appeared to be working and we thought it was all just a big laugh. Then the electricity went out!. It wasn't stormy outside or anything, and it was just in our area, as in it was not widespead all over the city. All I remember is telling the lads to ****ing leave it alone. But we were all shaking like leaves just after it went and we were left sitting in the dark. I remember saying to myself I definatly believe in it now. I know there could have been several logical explanations as to why the electricity went, but it was the coincidence that made it sooo real. The power was only gone for about 30 seconds, but that was enough to put the ****s up me.

Anybody from Galway remember the poltergeist in Corrib Park estate, about 3 years ago. An exorcist type priest guy had to be called, and mass was said in the house as it was becomming unbearable to live in. Durin the mass (while nobody was upstairs), a vase picked itself up off a window cill and ****ed itself over the other side of the room. The whole thing was going to be aired on TV but the family didn't want the exposure, and half the country showing up on their doorstep.

So ya see folks, it doesn't just happen in America. That estate is about 3km from my house.

;-phobos-)

_CreeD_

The question of science vs. magic is a bit misleading I think. The conflict only exists if you believe Magic to encompass only things which science cannot explain - which I think is wrong. To me the supernatural just means mind over matter, or the influence of 'spirits' (invisible lifeforms) on the material world.
I'm pretty much in the middle I guess. I have never seen empirical proof that there are such forces, but have had enough 'hints' over the years that I'm keeping an open mind anyway.
2 things have made me less skeptical.
Firstly is that when I ws young my mum had a reading done by a travelling fortune teller,along with her friends. She told one neighbour that she would have a child within 2 years, which they all laughed at since her husband was sterile....Yet it happened anyway (not a happy hubby)....self fulfilling prophecy? Possibly. But the bit Id didn't know until months ago was that I had come to the door (all of about 3/4 years old), apparently the Fortune teller stopped, turned around and pointed straight at me and said 'That one will travel, all over the world'. And here I am in Angola, I do 60,000 airmiles a year nowadays....
Secondly,My previous girlfriend was a High Priestess in a wiccan order. She wasn't crazy, sensationalist, stupid, or the tv cliched fruitbat type, and she told me of many supernatural things she was involved in. I've known of future readings she has done that have been VERY precise, and in the end very accurate - enough anyway to make me question my instinctive disbelief.

There are scientific theory's that can place each of these back into a logical context, but that does not stop them being what I would call the supernatural.

Paladin

Ouijii boards. HAHAHA

Most of that *kind* of stuff is only real if you believe in it.

This doesnt mean its real of course, but from the believers perspective....its kinda like horoscopes. If you believe in them you will always find some way in your mind to interpret them as correct.

Farls

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paladin:
Ouijii boards. HAHAHA

Most of that *kind* of stuff is only real if you believe in it.

This doesnt mean its real of course, but from the believers perspective....its kinda like horoscopes. If you believe in them you will always find some way in your mind to interpret them as correct.</font>

And there was me thinking there were going to be some interesting stories on this thread, what do you expect tho its saturday and the kids aren't back to school till Monday!.

Anyways, the Entity is the movie i seen thanx for posting a link to it phobos i couldn't for the life of me think of its name last night. As you may notice Barbara Hershey plays "Carla" in the movie what i want to know is what is Carla's surname?...if anyone has the movie could you please look it up cuz if you do a search for her name you will find a site about her and evidence that no science could possibly explain of the paranormal.

I've heard many storys on ghosts and the likes but never tried the Ouiji board , very shady with the lights going out btw phobos!

I've heard that on Halloween night if you go into an old abandoned church during the "haunting hour" and recite our lords prayer backwards the devil will appear dunno bout that one but a lot of ppl believe in it.

It is truly an amazing subject that i'd like to hear more about so if ppl start to post stories/experiences of anything mentioned in the previous posts it would b awesome.

Btw DONT i repeat DONT post how to use things such as the Ouiji Board or how to make one cuz i really dont want to see this thread locked =Þ

Farls

scutchy

I find shamanistic possession and chi useful paradigms for meditation and, well, fighting - I suppose you could call that a belief.

Karl Hungus

I've looked into quite a bit of black magick. Not wicca mind you, but the real satanic magick.

Quite interesting really... But really scary to be honest.
Basicaly plenty of curses and junk like that, that I wouldn't be particularly interested in learning.

The only thing I really have any intrest in is the psy-vampirism, which is basicaly draining energy from others.
Could be useful.

I know a couple of people who can actualy do it... It's a wierd feeling to have your energy drained... Bit like getting drunk actualy...

phobos

Angelwhore, I knew it was only a matter of time before you contributed to this thread. But I don't think that the satanic stuff is a good idea, coz you are only tempting fate there!.

But that psy-vampirism stuff sounds interesting. Not that I would ever participate in it (sounds very goth like), and I'm a dance head. But suits you down to the ground m8

Actually there was a documentary on channel4 not too long ago about "Living Vampires". Basically twas a bunch of goths that went and had their dentals altered (fangs and all that). They were a little weird, but they said that drinking human blood was like getting high, with no side effects (apart from being fukked in the head, lol). This was over in San Francisco or something, and they had official ni8 clubs or club ni8s that catered for this type of clientelle. It even showed the drinking process. They didn't do the original drinking from the neck or wrist thing. On TV it showed them drinking from their arms and upper backs. It was very interesting actually, but IMO I think it was a couple of people who just got a rush from doing something out of the ordinary. The fact that they were doing something that could make eachother sick or even die, made the rush more pronounced.

But basically what I hopeed to achieve in this thread is for people to perhaps discuss their experiences with the topic, as opposed to wheather or not they believe in it or not. I know I probably asked the wrong question in the topic header, but from now on it's changed!.

;-phobos-)

bonkey

At present, there are many things which defy scientific explanation.

Often, such events/items are often dismissed as being "an elaborate hoax that we cant explain", or science conveniently just ignores certain things.

An (admittedly weak) example is the Sphinx. It is usually aged at about 10,000 years. However, the rock from which it was carved shows distinct signs of water-based erosion, on a scale which could not have happened in the last 10,000 years according to our current historic/prehistoric model. Add to that the fact that it would constantly be buried under sand while being made, and a few other factors, and you end up with a strong indication that :

1) The sphinx is not 10,000 years old, but much older - perhaps as old as 30,000 years, which flies in the face of our model of the evolution of mankind.

or

2) Our eco-model of the area over the last 10,000 years is completely horse.

or

3) Its inexplicable

Now, normally, you dont hear any controversy about the Sphinx, because the conflicting information is simply ignored, because trying to explain it causes too many problems to existing models. As a result, when pushed, you have a number of conflicting theories, all of which are rubbished by the supporters of the current model which fits a large amount of the evidence.

So, where am I going with this....

Simple...

I do not believe in the unexplicable, just in the unexplained. I believe there are a great many things that science does not explain, or explains incorrectly at the moment. We end up classifying these under "magic", "paranormal", "alien-influence", and so on. Maybe some of them are alien-influenced. Maybe ghosts do exist, and maybe magic is possible.

Science may someday explain these things. Because it doesnt do so today does not mean that they are rubbish, but neither does it mean that they are true.

jc

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by phobos:
Angelwhore, I knew it was only a matter of time before you contributed to this thread. But I don't think that the satanic stuff is a good idea, coz you are only tempting fate there!.

But that psy-vampirism stuff sounds interesting. Not that I would ever participate in it (sounds very goth like), and I'm a dance head. But suits you down to the ground m8 </font>

No, I don't think the satanic stuff is a good idea at all, that why I never professed any intrest in learning any of it.

Actualy... I was thinking Psy-vampirism would be quite useful to a dance head such as yourself... Draining the energy at raves is something I can only speculate on, but you might give it a try?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by phobos:
Actually there was a documentary on channel4 not too long ago about "Living Vampires". Basically twas a bunch of goths that went and had their dentals altered (fangs and all that). They were a little weird, but they said that drinking human blood was like getting high, with no side effects (apart from being fukked in the head, lol). This was over in San Francisco or something, and they had official ni8 clubs or club ni8s that catered for this type of clientelle. It even showed the drinking process. They didn't do the original drinking from the neck or wrist thing. On TV it showed them drinking from their arms and upper backs. It was very interesting actually, but IMO I think it was a couple of people who just got a rush from doing something out of the ordinary. The fact that they were doing something that could make eachother sick or even die, made the rush more pronounced.
</font>

I think I saw this one... American Vampires?
If thats the one, I saw that...

But nobody had their teeth actualy altered, just little fake things.
A lot of people do it for a laugh, like a dress up and all that.

As for getting high of blood...
Can't say I've ever gotten high in this fasion!
I think it said in the programme that it was something to do with a certain amount of adrenaline in the blood.

But getting sick and dying from it?
Man, thats just getting paranoid...
If it's AIDS that the concern is about, you'd have no more chance of catching it than with any other form of bodily fluid transfer...

And most when actual vampirism is concerned, it is most common as a way for to lovers to express love in a non-sexual way.

phobos

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I believe there are a great many things that science does not explain, or explains incorrectly at the moment. We end up classifying these under "magic", "paranormal", "alien-influence", and so on. Maybe some of them are alien-influenced. Maybe ghosts do exist, and maybe magic is possible.

Science may someday explain these things. Because it doesnt do so today does not mean that they are rubbish, but neither does it mean that they are true.
</font>

That is a very good point!. But it's something that I belive in too. TBH guys I am quite the skeptic myself, and believe in science and not miracles etc. But at the same time I want to keep an open mind. Because if we take for example all those years ago ppl made BIG mistakes for not keeping an open mind. A lot of people went in to mental institutions because their medical condition could not be explained. A lot of them were not insane going in, but went insane while there. But because people could not explain their conditions, they instanty decided that they were insane, instead of realising that they might have encountered something new. So for that very reason I think its important we keep an open mind to the things that we still can't explain, as opposed to trying to fob them off with theories that just define objects and occurances that are of a similar nature.

I can see this discussion getting very deep, but I do like some of the points mentioned so far. I personally think that narrow minds inhibit future trends etc. If somebody walked up to you and said TV screen can be called up in mid air for instant viewing, you would probably tell them that it couldn't be done. But go back and tell the cavemen that you listen to music a minidisc walkman, while using your PDA to wirelessly connect to the Internet, and you probably would get the same response.

So by now you can see the moral of the story is down to how people choose to react to what they don't understand. Is it so very hard to belive the "unbelievable"?

;-phobos-)

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AngelWhore:
The only thing I really have any intrest in is the psy-vampirism, which is basicaly draining energy from others.
Could be useful. </font>

Then you have the party vampire that sucks the life out of a party.

sucking the lifeforce out of people is bad m'kay.

Miguel_Sanchez

Farls - the name of the woman in "The Entity" is Carla Moran. Apparently that's not the name of the real woman it was supposed to have happened to though.

If I can find a link to a story about the real woman I'll post it.

jaarius

until i see proof that there is NOTHING out there, that ghosts dont exist or black magic is just a hoax... i will believe. there are to many cases of this throughout the world in different form in different cultures. co-inkie-dink? i think no.


j

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"Why not put the match in a shark tank, with real live sharks, hungry sharks, and the only way to beat your
opponent is to stuff them down a shark's throat and pin a shark".
-Kurt Angle to Lilian Garcia

bonkey

Something which this thread has reminded me of....

"There is no such thing as the inexplicable, merely the unexplained".

Im a born skeptic, and havent encountered any truly weird stuff firsthand that falls into the "paranormal" category or any other for that matter. As a result, I am skeptical of second-hand reporting, as it mostly comes from someone with a belief one way or the other.

Watch any "documentary" about Nessie. They either set out to show how there has been so many reports that there *has* to be something there, or they show how the same reports are dubious at best, and then debunk the photos.

It is rare that someone debunks a large amount of stuff and then comes back to a core and says "but we still have no clue about this".

So is there really that much unexplained stuff out there, or is it just that we refuse to accept some of the explanations offered, despite their being plausible.

Dont get me wrong...I believe there is a lot which is still unexplained....but nowhere near as much as many seem to believe in.

jc

LURCH

i apologise if anyone hassaid this already (this is a long topic and i couldn'be arsed reading it all )
but as we survey the universe and the many galaxies and constolations it HAS to be possible that another planet out there has the capacity for life. As far as scientits can establish , the universe is infinite, and every star we see in the sky at night is another solar system each with more planets some possibly like our own. it is not possible to prove that there is alien life out there but judgeing by the possibilities then i say "YES" alien life is absolutely possible.
i also find the subject fascinating but magic, i dont think so on this world and at our level of technology, although it would be totally kewl to be able to do some of the stuff we read about in fantasy novels and the like, however the laws of physics can be bent and even broken in this universe (eg. black holes), and other races on other planets may be more advanced in the technological scale than we are, possibly being able to bend and break the laws of the universe and produce the like of fire from their bare hands
i know this is all a little far fetched but it is something that can be considered and could be possible under the right circumstances

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is it real ? it can't be, are u serious ?

Farls

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski:
Farls - the name of the woman in "The Entity" is Carla Moran. Apparently that's not the name of the real woman it was supposed to have happened to though.

If I can find a link to a story about the real woman I'll post it.</font>

Cheers jeff, can i ask how u found that name out tho, i remember when i watched the movie i actually wrote the name down and looked her up on the net cuz i didn't believe it, boy was i wrong...i'll b flucked if i can find where i wrote her name down tho!

Farls

Miguel_Sanchez

Farls - I went ot www.imdb.com and it gave a list of character names for The Entity.

I couldn't find any sites that went into any details about the real life stories. Maybe at the end of the film it gave her real name or something and that's how you found the info. Maybe I'm just crap at using search engines though.

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You can imagine where it goes from here. --- He fixes the cable?

bonkey

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LURCH:
but as we survey the universe and the many galaxies and constolations it HAS to be possible that another planet out there has the capacity for life. As far as scientits can establish , the universe is infinite, and every star we see in the sky at night is another solar system each with more planets some possibly like our own. it is not possible to prove that there is alien life out there but judgeing by the possibilities then i say "YES" alien life is absolutely possible.
</font>

Actually, as far as scientists can tell, the universe is finite. But it is very big.

As to the odds of another planet existing which can support life....actually, these odds vary up and down. Generally, there is considered only to be a very small "zone" of conditions where life similar to that found on earth can survive. It is not inconceivable that there is no other life similar to that on this planet out there.

However, given the vast diversity of life found on this planet, we cannot assume that conditions need to be anything like our planet, and this makes the odds unknowable.

To steal a quote from Carl Sagan's book "Contact"... "if there isnt, its an awful waste of space".


"i also find the subject fascinating but magic, i dont think so on this world and at our level of technology"

Magic is not technology based. As for the laws of physics - who said they cant be broken. One of the noteable things about people who study a lot of esotericism is that they constantly believe that we are "bound" by our own belief that the so-called laws of physics are immuteable.

Look at it this way....there was once a small girl in the US who could turn a tennis-ball inside out, without rupturing the skin, or depressurizing the inside. Now, this is impossible according to our "laws" of physics. Strangely, as she grew older, and learned why this was impossible, she lost the ability to do it.

Magic is not necessarily about throwing fireballs and casting teleport spells. Magic is a "catchall" description to a completely different way of believing in our existence, which supposedly leads to being able to manipulate reality in a manner which conventional thinking can neither understand
nor explain. This does not make it impossible.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">however the laws of physics can be bent and even broken in this universe (eg. black holes)</font>

Black holes dont break any laws of physics.

Our theories of physics have been expanded and refined in order to explain how/why black holes can exist. Our current theories "break down" at the singularity point inside a black hole. This is not to say that the black hole breaks any laws, but is just an indication that our model of the universe is incomplete and therefore at least partially incorrect.

Furthermore, to be really accurate about it, we do not have any "laws of physics", as we do not have a unified model of how things work.

At the smallest scale, we have the Quantum models, and at larger scales we have the Special Theoryu of Relativity. However, these two theories do not combine yet. Ergo, we do not have a single model which can explain everything...this "Theory of Everything" (aka Grand Unified Theory or GUT) is one of the holy grails in physics.

jc

popinfresh

Well I'm personally not really a bleiver in humans having extra abilitys, but I'm a strong beleiver in the angels, hense the demons....
I think this is what magic is, just a bunch of higher beings taking the ****. As for Ouigi-boards, I heard that the exorcist film was based on an actual story..

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i hate you guys......

Magwitch

In answer to the origional question...no. The rise in UFO spottings and paranormal belief if a substitute for religion, because both rely on a lack of proof and blind faith.

I have heard many facinating and intelligent explanations for UFO abductions and ghosts which are far more interesting than the percieved "unexplained".

Few people of education or intelligence put any creedance in these things ( I do not detract from those who do) but in my experince the most enthusiastic, informed and animated on these subjects are usually academically under-achieved and/or short a few marbles. The same goes for the ultra-religous (see my point?).

An interest in the unknown is healthy, very healthy in my opinion, but accceptance of Aliens and ghosts as "fact" is not. I am not refering to the average joe, but the "born again" intellectuals of the X-Files age.

Religous Theme parks and UFO theme parks both exist as part of the same industry for books, tee-shirts and bumper stickers. I am a huge sci-fi fan but frankly find the whole rise in UFO popularity ludacris. 10 years ago I may have bought a book on the unexplained, but now I would just feel there is some Yank having a good laugh at me for the price of his book.