psychic or mentally unbalanced

rcunning03

What is the difference between a person who can hear the dead and a person with a psychological disorder.

Is it just a case of labelling depending on your beliefs, or is there actually a difference ?

What defences are there to stop a spiritual journey (e.g. Taking a fly agaric mushroom) from sending you to a mental hospital

landser

rcunning03 wrote:

What is the difference between a person who can hear the dead and a person with a psychological disorder.

none, they're both psycho, or the former's a fraud and the latter unfortunate

Oryx

Troll, troll troll troll troll

I am MAN

I dont believe in psychic people they look and sound silly.

I do believe in coincidence though.

stevenmu

rcunning03 wrote:

Is it just a case of labelling depending on your beliefs, or is there actually a difference ?

I think that most people who believe it's possible to communicate with the dead would accept that some people are just mentally ill and hallucinating. People who don't believe it's possible, such as landser apparently, would claim that it's all mental illness/hallucinations.
I don't know of any firm, fast way to tell the difference between the two. I think you'd just have to try and judge it on a case by case basis, probably looking at things like the character, belief systems, and other behaviour of the person involved and the nature of the messages they recieve. I think anyboy who recieves messages saying they should hurt themselves or others is probably ill and needs urgent professional help. On the other hand someone who recieves a message saying to tell someone that their grandmother loves them very much and their missing cat is trapped down a well is possibly recieving genuine messages.

<edit>
It's probably also worth pointing out that everybody has a mental illness of some form. Landser, for example, is obviously very insecure in his/her belief system and unable to deal with the paradigm shift that believing in paranormal phenomena would bring
</edit>

rcunning03 wrote:

What defences are there to stop a spiritual journey (e.g. Taking a fly agaric mushroom) from sending you to a mental hospital

Not taking them !
There are ways of protecting yourself on genuine spiritual journeys but by definition drugs remove the control of your mind from you and can render them useless. It's generally recommended not to use drugs for spiritual journeying. Those people who would use them as an aid generally recommend that you be very experienced (on the spiritual side ) first.

I am MAN wrote:

I do believe in coincidence though.

Me too ! What a .... erm ... never mind

landser

stevenmu wrote:

. People who don't believe it's possible, such as landser apparently, would claim that it's all mental illness/hallucinations.

i do indeed, or they are complete fraudsters preying on the vulnerable and usually grief stricken bereaved, like that blind cow from derry.
any of these mediums, psychics what have ye peddle lies and false hope. i'm not saying that there's no after life (i have no way of knowng) but i do know that if i walk into a room full of people and say "i'm getting a msg from mary, does that mean anything to anyone", chances are it will.

psychics me ar*e

GuanYin

landser wrote:

i do indeed, or they are complete fraudsters preying on the vulnerable and usually grief stricken bereaved, like that blind cow from derry.
any of these mediums, psychics what have ye peddle lies and false hope. i'm not saying that there's no after life (i have no way of knowng) but i do know that if i walk into a room full of people and say "i'm getting a msg from mary, does that mean anything to anyone", chances are it will.

psychics me ar*e

Just before I decide if you are trolling or not.

Are you saying that anyone anywhere who perceives dead people is a psycho, a liar and a fraud or are you just suggesting that the mediums who perform grandiose seances are?


Are you saying that there is no way anyone could perceive the dead or communicate with them or are you saying that you don't believe the commercial ones can.

How can you back up this viewpoint.

Oryx

landser wrote:

i do indeed, or they are complete fraudsters preying on the vulnerable and usually grief stricken bereaved, like that blind cow from derry.
any of these mediums, psychics what have ye peddle lies and false hope. i'm not saying that there's no after life (i have no way of knowng) but i do know that if i walk into a room full of people and say "i'm getting a msg from mary, does that mean anything to anyone", chances are it will.

psychics me ar*e

I accept that there are fraudsters out there and I hate them as much as you do and wish them an eternity of misery. BUT to class all psychics as fraudsters is ignorant and cynical

landser

syke wrote:

Just before I decide if you are trolling or not.

Are you saying that anyone anywhere who perceives dead people is a psycho, a liar and a fraud or are you just suggesting that the mediums who perform grandiose seances are?


Are you saying that there is no way anyone could perceive the dead or communicate with them or are you saying that you don't believe the commercial ones can.

How can you back up this viewpoint.

i'm not trollin. this is my belief. EDIT out the unsubstantiated insults WARNING you will be banned for future offenses i can't back this is up as you would like me too, no more than you can prove that there is an after life, a tooth fairy or an honest politician.

there is NO empirical evidence to say that psychics, medians or whatever they call themselves can communicate with the dead. i have seen many of these so called gifted people and they deal in banalities EDIT out the unsubstantiated offensive remarks

i haven't classed all psychich as frauds, EDIT out the unsubstantiated remark

i don't want to rant about it, but it's all BS

Oryx

landser wrote:

i'm not trollin. this is my belief. i believe all psychich are either loons or con men. i can't back this is up as you would like me too, no more than you can prove that there is an after life, a tooth fairy or an honest politician.

there is NO empirical evidence to say that psychics, medians or whatever they call themselves can communicate with the dead. i have seen many of these so called gifted people and they deal in banalities and generalities to which the vulnerable or feeble monded can attach any significance they wish to.

i haven't classed all psychich as frauds, there may well be some people out there who genuinely believe that they can speak to the dead.... but they can't.

i don't want to rant about it, but it's all BS

Thanks for calling me a loon

All I can say is how little you know. When you die your in for a BIG surprise

GuanYin

landser wrote:

i'm not trollin. this is my belief. EDIT out the unsubstantiated insults WARNING you will be banned for future offenses
i can't back this is up as you would like me too, no more than you can prove that there is an after life, a tooth fairy or an honest politician.

Gross generalisation and your beliefs are fine but I'd like to point you towards the forum charter. This isn't the place to make those accusations and if you can't put your points forward in a civil manner you will be banned. As such I'm editing the offensive remarks.

there is NO empirical evidence to say that psychics, medians or whatever they call themselves can communicate with the dead. EDIT out the unsubstantiated offensive remarks

Not quite true, there is quite alot of physical evidence that has yet to be debunked. Topically (with the advent of the movie) EVP is something that has in several cases, produced evidence that cannot be explained by paranormal/skeptical investigators.

i haven't classed all psychich as frauds, there may well be some people out there who genuinely believe that they can speak to the dead.... EDIT out the unsubstantiated remark

i don't want to rant about it, but it's all BS

Well its ok, because you're ranting is about to be removed.

Zillah

I'm wondering what the hell these mean strangers are doing on our forum...

Carpo

stevenmu wrote:

I think anyboy who recieves messages saying they should hurt themselves or others is probably ill and needs urgent professional help. On the other hand someone who recieves a message saying to tell someone that their grandmother loves them very much and their missing cat is trapped down a well is possibly recieving genuine messages.

eh? Are you saying that if someone recieves a 'nice' message then they are probably genuine psychics/mediums/whatever, but if they recieve a 'nasty' message they are probably nuts?

I'm just curious why you might thik this.

keu

not sure where to start.

What is the difference between a person who can hear the dead and a person with a psychological disorder.

most people who have psychological disorders are on some form of medication or (the dangerous ones) are locked up. But, classing mediums and psychics as having some type of mental incapacity might be better worded as having a higher mental capacity.
for example..do you think blind people don't know the difference between red and white? Do you believe that they might have developed other senses to substitute. (maybe you could ask the blind cow in derry)
same with deaf people (I've met lots of deaf "mediums"), can you not understand that they might be able to use other senses to determine what they can't "hear"?
They can sense how someone is feeling ten times better than people who dont need to rely on those senses .
Over time they learn to trust these other senses and the information it provides.
I think mediums and psychics have learned to trust their other senses too.
I have given quite a few messages in my time (been actively involved since i was 23 will be thirty this year) and I'm not sure that I believe in the afterlife.
I know I used to, but I have managed to change my understanding as to where those messages have come from. Your body emits an energy, a particular signature and if like a palm reader I were to read those lines, I would be able to determine information regarding you. This takes away the involvment of having "dead people" around. Any information regarding "spirit" is just an echo of them, imprinted into your energy.
So, there's no heaven and when you die the worms just eat you. Happy now?

Oryx

Carpo wrote:

eh? Are you saying that if someone recieves a 'nice' message then they are probably genuine psychics/mediums/whatever, but if they recieve a 'nasty' message they are probably nuts?

I'm just curious why you might thik this.

Anyone causing harm to themselves or others needs help regardless of where its coming from. Nasty or nice, the only messages worth considering are those verifiable and understood by the recipient. And anyone passing messages from spirit should 'above all do no harm' so nasty messages should not be passed on. Thats my bit dont know about stevenmu

Nevyn

IT is hard to tell sometimes,

I have meet people that think/say they are phsyic or a witch when
quiet frankly they need to talk to a theraphist and an analyst
and get medication, And it is thier belief in this that stops them getting the help they needs.

Like wise I have meet people that are genuine cases of mediums ect that have been mediacted up to the eyeballs by family and doctors living a miserible life until they got off the meds, got some training and now live happy lives comfortible with thier skills.

Or then there there are people that only after going through trama or a break down are opened up to thier skills and have to fight thier way to getting off meds and dealing with how thier life has changed.

There are no easy answers to this but you soon learn to tell the difference once you have meet enough people.

stormkeeper

Hrm... I'd like to believe that I'm psychic, as opposed to mentally unstable. But that said, I noticed that people who are intuitive seem to have a disability or condition... I'm not sure if it's all people or just some, but it's an observation I made.

Always in black

landser has been lambasted for daring to express his opinion as contrary to the greater part of the forum. a difference of opinion does not imply that he is a mean stranger (and you are not six and hes not offering you a lollipop). he has not as far as i can see classedd all as frauds but is saying that a healthy majority are somewhat dubious in this ....ability...i suppose i would call it. to accuse him of trolling immediatly shows the kind of closemindedness that is contrary to charter of the forum. i have seen that lady from derry on the late late and when the phone in time came around, EVERY SINGLE CALL was to oust her as a fraud. it is easy to see why one would be cynical of physcis if she is a public representation of an already, in many peoples eyes, a dubious skill.

gogo

This thread is very curious, rcunning03 put across a very valid and interesting question, and i was looking forward to reading the answers as I don't know too much about the paranormal.

But regarding the previous post, how come landser did get heckles of troll for expressing his/her opinion?
Especially when i am man came in and said pretty much the same thing and got no lash back for it?
To be fair I can see why landser's responses are getting angrier?

So I feel that katiek response of troll troll troll should be equally greeted with a banning if any are to be handed out.



As for this?

phlematic wrote:

I'm wondering what the hell these mean strangers are doing on our forum...

Who's forum is this now, because the last time I looked you weren't in the equation (neither was i for that matter, but I'm not claiming it as mine.)

As for the inital question asked, an answer to that would be that I am really unsure, there are a lot of frauds out there, but then a lot of what some mediums come up with is uncanny, so I'm really out on the topic, and would like to see more revelant replys here to the inital question.

Oryx

landser wrote:

none, they're both psycho, or the former's a fraud and the latter unfortunate

My troll response was to the above remark which is unequivocally calling anyone with a belief in the paranormal a psycho. Thats trolling to me.

Always in black

it was a childish reply to a statement of opinion. that is intolerence.

gogo

rcunning03 wrote:

What is the difference between a person who can hear the dead and a person with a psychological disorder.

Lets read this again together shall we.- what is the difference between a person who can hear the dead and a person with a psychological disorder.

landser reply

landser wrote:

none, they're both psycho, or the former's a fraud and the latter unfortunate

Now how is that

katiek wrote:

unequivocally calling anyone with a belief in the paranormal a psycho

.

I'll give you time to read over it again katiek. seeing as you obvioulsy didn't read it right the first time, and as it was you who started this in the first place, i think you owe landser an apology as you were wrong.

Now as anyone got anything decent to reply to this thread or is it going to continue in this fashion for its indurance.

Always in black

/me nods head and agrees readily.

Oryx

In an effort to get this back on track, sorry landser, thought the whole argument was a stitch up yesterday, accept I misread the intent. OK?

As Ive said before, here and in other posts, psychic ability and mental illness are very close to each other, whether it drives you mad or you were mad in the first place is hard or impossible to decide as those with the power to decide dont always believe in the phenomenon anyway. There are always people who will hear voices that have nothing to do with the paranormal. In my case I thought I was going mad for years (maybe I am ) and I only got past that when I accepted what was going on might be paranormal, and from there I could deal with it.

Always in black

gogo wrote:

Now as anyone got anything decent in reply to this thread or is it going to continue in this fashion for its indurance.

/Me Nods hed and Agrees completly!!

gogo

Cool katiek, But an interesting point brought up somewhere is who does draw the line?
Are some people unfortunate and get put in mental institutes or who is it that says they are crazy, surely not all instiute Governors/doctors are disbeliving of the paranormal? where does one draw the line?

Oryx

Who can say? Hopefully with time tolerance and knowledge will increase. In the early 1900s promiscuity and post natal depression saw people locked up for life as incurable lunatics, and we now have a better understanding of that.

Always in black

has anyone here had an indisputable psycic incident. katiek...you last post was tantalizing!!more detail please.

Always in black

KatieK wrote:

In an effort to get this back on track, sorry landser, thought the whole argument was a stitch up yesterday, accept I misread the intent. OK?

As Ive said before, here and in other posts, psychic ability and mental illness are very close to each other, whether it drives you mad or you were mad in the first place is hard or impossible to decide as those with the power to decide dont always believe in the phenomenon anyway. There are always people who will hear voices that have nothing to do with the paranormal. [Quote=Katiek} In my case I thought I was going mad for years (maybe I am ) and I only got past that when I accepted what was going on might be paranormal, and from there I could deal with it.

i meant this!

GuanYin

Look READ THE CHARTER.

When you do, come back and read the posts I edited.

They violate the charter, end of story.

Always in black and gogo first friendly warning.

If you have a problem in future, keep it off the thread, either PM me or go to feedback.

S

Oryx

Yes I have had definite psychic experiences. I have had to deal with a lack of understanding and the type of comment made earlier in this post for a long time, which is why Im always reluctant to talk in detail about it. Put it this way I believe without a doubt, and so do a lot of people who know me well.

landser

syke wrote:

Look READ THE CHARTER.

When you do, come back and read the posts I edited.

They violate the charter, end of story.

Always in black and gogo first friendly warning.

If you have a problem in future, keep it off the thread, either PM me or go to feedback.

S

i'll get my coat so,

stevenmu

Carpo wrote:

eh? Are you saying that if someone recieves a 'nice' message then they are probably genuine psychics/mediums/whatever, but if they recieve a 'nasty' message they are probably nuts?

I'm just curious why you might thik this.

Not exactly. First of all I don't really believe in an afterlife, or at least not the kind of one most people would think of. That said I don't totally rule it out, I can't say for sure seeing as I haven't died yet (not too big on reincarnation either).

I think it's pretty certain that there are people who are mentally unwell, who hallucinate and think that they're hearing the voices of the dead, aliens or the CIA. I had a discussion about this kind of stuff before with a girl who was training to be a forensic psychologist and she was saying that there's ways of diagnosing people such as this by traits they display other than those related to hearing voices. In general with people like this, the voices convince them one way or another to do something that would be generally regarded as wrong. It's also pretty certain that there are people claiming to be psychic and channel messages from the dead who are complete and utter frauds.

Then there are people like KatieK who claim to be able to recieve messages who don't benefit from it in any way, I don't think she really minds if we believe her or not, and she's not asking for any money. Also I've never met her but she seems reasonably sane, or at least no more insane then the rest of us . Like I said I don't believe in an afterlife but it is possible that she's right and I'm wrong.

Oryx

Jeez, thanks stevenmu love you too!

stormkeeper

It's kind of frustrating that in this country, stuff like this isn't discussed more openly... It has the potential to cause lots of trouble, as I found out some time ago

stevenmu

keu wrote:

So, there's no heaven and when you die the worms just eat you. Happy now?

Pink Floyd-The Wall-Hey You wrote:

But it was only fantasy.
The wall was too high,
As you can see.
No matter how he tried,
He could not break free.
And the worms ate into his brain.

p.s. Sorry KatieK, it was all meant in the nicest possible way.
Out of curiosity, does it seem possible to you that messages you recieve may not actually be from an afterlife but that you're actually picking up on something else an just percieving it that way ? Or perhaps is there some kind of bi-directional communication or some evidence in some messages that confirms your belief ? I don't really know the first thing about channelling and if there is something to it it'd be interesting to learn about.

stormkeeper

Of my underestanding... If you're a medium or higher, you can send and recieve messages. Psychics can only recieve messages. I actually had an incident where I "recieved" some messages in relation to a place I've been. It seems I'm being called back there by the resident spirits...

Oryx

stevenmu, I took it as a compliment! If you ever meet me you will find me boring im so normal.

With regard to the experiences Ive had at first things happened that I had no control over, and it was frightening. As I got older, I was less scared of it and realised I could 'see' messages from - whereever they come from. I always see pictures so Im not so good on names and dates. This is clairvoyance, wheras hearing is clairaudience. I also sense feelings which is clairsentience. I never see in reality it is always in my mind. As for whether this is my subconcoius doing this, I doubt it because I often give stuff I simply dont know, and when reading someone the less I know the easier it is, as its easier to be objective. I have had direct contact with spirits who have passed and I see them clearly. In one case I was then shown a group photo and could easily pick out the deceased person, (whom I had never met). It all sounds real easy, but it isnt. Its like radio, sometimes the signals good, sometimes not. You also have to stop your own mind throwing in your own ideas which is probably the hardest thing. Maybe that gets easier with practice I dont know. I dont use this often only when theres a need, I dont do parlour tricks!

keu

Originally Posted by Pink Floyd-The Wall-Hey You
But it was only fantasy.
The wall was too high,
As you can see.
No matter how he tried,
He could not break free.
And the worms ate into his brain.

figured it would just be easier to tell them what they want to hear..
no..there's no afterlife and yea all psychics and mediums are crazy.
They're not interested in proof, they want to disprove so they can be right and feel less inadequate.

stormkeeper

KatieK wrote:

stevenmu, I took it as a compliment! If you ever meet me you will find me boring im so normal.

I tend to rarely use normal and myself, or indeed people in the same sentence. I find I can't classify normal for people as no one was brought up the same, and we all had different experiences. Of course, that's just me.... And I know that I'm not in the bracket of normal anyway, so meh.. lol

stormkeeper

keu wrote:

figured it would just be easier to tell them what they want to hear..
no..there's no afterlife and yea all psychics and mediums are crazy.
They're not interested in proof, they want to disprove so they can be right and feel less inadequate.

Just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I'm out of touch with reality... Just ask my friend Fred the Pink Elephant.

Seriously, the way I figure it, that if you're crazy (within reason), then there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with a dose of randomness and unpredictability. Keeps things from getting dull imo.

Oryx

I use the word normal in the conventional sense as in I dont dress like a witch or howl at the moon, and I eat breakfast and watch soaps like anyone else....but I do have my own little peculiarities as you have seen! Im quite happy and I dont need to fit in with anyone elses idea of right or wrong. But I do want to find like minded people to talk to!

Nevyn

KatieK wrote:

I dont dress like a witch or howl at the moon,

ah but that can be the fun part

stevenmu

KatieK wrote:

stevenmu, I took it as a compliment! If you ever meet me you will find me boring im so normal.

With regard to the experiences Ive had at first things happened that I had no control over, and it was frightening. As I got older, I was less scared of it and realised I could 'see' messages from - whereever they come from. I always see pictures so Im not so good on names and dates. This is clairvoyance, wheras hearing is clairaudience. I also sense feelings which is clairsentience. I never see in reality it is always in my mind. As for whether this is my subconcoius doing this, I doubt it because I often give stuff I simply dont know, and when reading someone the less I know the easier it is, as its easier to be objective. I have had direct contact with spirits who have passed and I see them clearly. In one case I was then shown a group photo and could easily pick out the deceased person, (whom I had never met). It all sounds real easy, but it isnt. Its like radio, sometimes the signals good, sometimes not. You also have to stop your own mind throwing in your own ideas which is probably the hardest thing. Maybe that gets easier with practice I dont know. I dont use this often only when theres a need, I dont do parlour tricks!

For once I wasn't actually trying to blame anything on subconcious shennanigans. I suppose what I'm wondering is are you picking up on messages/energies from an afterlife, or are they messages/energies that were left around by someone before they died (or while they did). I'm ont sure how someone could tell the difference but I thought you might be able to say you know one way or the other because of 'xyz'.

Oryx

stevenmu wrote:

For once I wasn't actually trying to blame anything on subconcious shennanigans. I suppose what I'm wondering is are you picking up on messages/energies from an afterlife, or are they messages/energies that were left around by someone before they died (or while they did). I'm ont sure how someone could tell the difference but I thought you might be able to say you know one way or the other because of 'xyz'.

I wouldnt say its just a remnant as on one occasion the info was to sort out a problem (something missing) in the present, I cant go into details, it would make things clearer if I could. Sometimes I see things that are like a replay of something that happened, yes, but I also get images, say of whats going on in the life of the person Im reading for right now, and it doesnt seem to me to be coming from their energy. Any clearer now?

stormkeeper

KatieK wrote:

I use the word normal in the conventional sense as in I dont dress like a witch or howl at the moon, and I eat breakfast and watch soaps like anyone else....but I do have my own little peculiarities as you have seen! Im quite happy and I dont need to fit in with anyone elses idea of right or wrong. But I do want to find like minded people to talk to!

I'm the same way, though that said, I tend to wear a pentigram around my neck at all times. I also have two tattoos I keep hidden most of the time. I consider them all to have a spiritual, or in the case of the pentegram, a protective purpose...

stevenmu

Thanks, that clears it up a good bit. I'll have to look into it further sometime. There's so much stuff though, that I use to just dismiss but now think may be possible, that I don't know how to keep up with it all.

stormkeeper

Yeah... It takes a long time to study it all, due to the amount of stuff there is. You could study a lifetime and still only be scratching the surface...

Oryx

Kennett, I wear a smoky quartz crystal around my neck, and I have a crucifix ring my mum gave me, mixed messages I know, but they both have a protective purpose for me. I also have a tattoo, but thats just a product of a misspent youth, and has no higher purpose

elivsvonchiaing

This is unknowable imho! However if you are female - and believe otherwise - and are reasonably good looking - and believe otherwise - evangelise me baby!
[EDIT]Reasonably good -looking - Jebus! That sounds so hollow and empty! Did'nt mean it like that! [/EDIT]

stormkeeper

KatieK wrote:

Kennett, I wear a smoky quartz crystal around my neck, and I have a crucifix ring my mum gave me, mixed messages I know, but they both have a protective purpose for me. I also have a tattoo, but thats just a product of a misspent youth, and has no higher purpose

Good stuff Btw, the pendulum I use can be used for protection too... As well as communication. I thought long and hard about my tattoos... Got them done when I was 20... Right one is a wolf, left one is a Chinese Dragon... Kind of represents myself in a sense... Ie: The dragon represents my worst side, where I can really go on a rampage, and the wolf is my calm, and dare I say wise state. Still though, if you believe they protect you, then it's all that matters in the long run

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

This is unknowable imho! However if you are female - and believe otherwise - and are reasonably good looking - and believe otherwise - evangelise me baby!
[EDIT]Reasonably good -looking - Jebus! That sounds so hollow and empty! Did'nt mean it like that! [/EDIT]

Huh?