M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [under construction; 2028 completion]

DylanQuestion

The only hope is the existing N28 (likely future R609). It's narrow in parts, but in general it's an okay width and has very few houses along it. An active travel scheme can be built from the Carr's Hill Interchange in the City to Carrigaline Town Centre pretty easily on the old R609 with limited widening at pinch points. The existing R609 doesn't need to be touched, as there is the Ballybrack Greenway from Maryborough Hill, under the N/M28, through Carleton/Bayly, and down into Douglas. Sort West Douglas Street, or add a greenway by the GAA club to Vernon Mount, and then you have an uninterupted connection from the furtherst parts of the south eastern city all the way to Turner's Cross, which has an inbound cycle lane into the City Centre.

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124085083#Comment_124085083

Never thought of that! Thanks for the explanation. Though I imagine with planning and NIMBY sentiment it will be 10+ years before ever delivered!

hans aus dtschl

Someone I know was told by the project team and LA that they hoped to do a separate scheme on the old alignment soon after the road. Remember there was a lot of legal difficulty progressing the M28. I don't want to say too much about it but in general the theme was "yes this needs to be done, but please don't shine a light on it too brightly until we get the road over the line, we'll fight one battle at a time".

Now could be a good time to start discussions with the LA about getting the scheme at least added to the Cork Cycling Network Plan.

(more detailed info: they were at the time trying to understand whether full segregation would be necessary on the old alignment or whether traffic calming and quiet street treatment would suffice, so it was a "realistic" discussion, it's definitely on the LA radar)

DylanQuestion

I'd split the N28 in half when considering works on both, as if it's detrunked to a regional road, it will be split between two LAs. Carr's Hill to Shannonpark, and Shannonpark to Ringaskiddy. The Carr's Hill to Shannonpark part of the current N28 is in the City, there is only one small section with houses along it, and it's realtively wide. I'd like to think that the City Council would be more ambitious too in getting it progressed, as it forms a natural extension to the Ballybrack Greenway. The N28 between Shannonpark and Ringaskiddy is a bit more difficult, mainly as it goes through Raffeen and Shanbally villages. They have this included on the M28 website. It's also interesting that the M28 website emphasises Tivoli as opposed to Kennedy Quay as being the main benefitor of the new road

A lot of the lands up by Moneygurney and Ballyorban were included in the submissions for the City Council's residential rezoning consultation. A lot of them are bounded by the current N28. I wonder if that's detrunked, will they allow those lands to open out onto the N28? There could be conditions put in place then that the road is widened

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124089076#Comment_124089076

great thanks for the detail. I had presumed it was just going to be Douglas-Passage-Rafeen-Carrig type greenway, which would be lovely by the sea and FLAT!!

But the above would be great, more direct, but I imagine a LONG way off.

Also another question, any updates on the proposed Lee-Sea greenway? A lot of talk on it maybe 5 years ago, but none more recently.

I think it would be fabulous, connect rural Mid-Cork to the city to the coast with a huge population, suburbs, schools, 3rd level, work places all linked in between.

I think it would make more sense to do this over say the Kinsale greenway. "Better Bang for your Buck" as it were!!

hans aus dtschl

There's a fairly constant campaign for the Lee-to-Sea but the Councils themselves have not heavily committed to it in recent years. They had a defeat in Passage a few years ago and it set them back I think

MindBent

How feasible or realistic is something like this? A greenway to the northern side along the N40 linking Douglas to to Mahon, the marina and the passage west greenway. A bridge or underpass at the western end by KFC. A bridge over the river just past the interchange and a small CPO by the Golf club.

Ideally this would be connected to Ballybrack greenway either through the Douglas Village Park or from Church Road. Connected also over to South Douglas Road to Tramore Valley Park.

Sorry for the terrible drawing.

Chris_5339762

Its certainly not impossible - the grounds of the Bessborough centre for instance contain the mini-Lakes-of-Killarney and would be a little tourist attraction if restored. The trouble is no-one wants to touch the Bessborough Center with a bargepole.

You also wouldn't be able to light that section due to the estuary.

DylanQuestion

There already is a walkway around the perimeter of the Bessborough site thankfully, similar to the Douglas to Tramore Valley Park walkway (although nowhere near as pretty).

I do think connecting it to Douglas is relatively possible. One issue is the golf course, which it would need to navigate, however that probably wouldn’t be too bad since it’s Council owned. The golf course stretches from Bessborough all the way to Ardmahon Estate, which is good. It probably gets a bit hairy then determining back garden boundaries, but that’s a small stretch. Then it gets to Douglas Hall Lawn. This is the main problem, as the N40 is at height south of here (if it even managed to get through all the houses), so it would need to move out on to the Well Road. A cycle scheme there as part of BusConnects was scrapped after residents’ objections, so I’m not sure if there is a realistic upgrade possible within the existing road width (very narrow in parts). There is a footpath, so maybe if they upgrade the crossings at the Well Road roundabout, it could technically end there with the option to walk into Douglas then if you want to go further? However, I don’t see why they couldn’t build the Bessborough to Ballinlough section while trying to figure out how to get to Douglas better

(I know this has nothing to do with the M28, sorry)

DylanQuestion

I drove from Douglas to Ringaskiddy and back today to see the works going on at Ringaskiddy and on the R609. The N28 public realm works in Ringaskiddy look great on the county end, but on the city end in Douglas I was surprised to see the apartment blocks in Bayly so close to the road. They also planted trees and added parallel parking. It seems the road wasn't widened at all.

I drove around the new roundabout at the very end of the existing N28 too, usually featured at the start of DroneHawk's videos. If I was to guess based off the signage, the existing N28 from Ringaskiddy to Shannonpark and through Shanbally will become the R611 until Shannonpark. The confusing part is that it seems some of the road will still be the N28. There were signs for Cork in green saying N28 with M28 in brackets at the new roundabout. Barnahely Roundabout will be the start of the M28, so I assume everything east of that will remain the N28

blindsider

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXfnzlb1a0s

DroneHawk's M28 Wrap.

spacetweek

Great video it is too.

HNY everyone.

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124096159#Comment_124096159

I agree Bayly looks like an eye sore. V close to the road. They really should have widened the road a bit. I grew up in a rural area. But I always feel a bit sad seeing a small valley like that being turned into a massive housing estate, I have no problem with flat fields, I dunno the culcie in me! Needs must i guess.

I can't see the greenway proposed along mahon wetlands going ahead. The wetlands, bessboro, golf course and a lot of affluent residents, will stop that! I think the greenway from Douglas to raffeen would be much better!

They have done great work so far on the M28, I'm always blown away by the amount of machinery and haulage of stone/earth that is needed for these projects!

Question - what do you think the impact of the M28 will have on Carrigaline? Will it just dump more traffic faster into the town? Or help to move traffic around the area? What would be needed to help alleviate this in the town?

Baldilocks

The traffic lights outside Janeville are a disaster - traffic is backing up through the Shannonpark roundabout with the current N28. (the current set-up does nothing to inspire confidence in the abilities of those who are planning/approving such roads)

A new outer bypass is required in order to facilitate people travelling to/from south of Carrigaline to the north without having to deal. Regrettably there is no obvious corridor to the east due to urban sprawl, the west side of the town will soon have the same problem, and the geography is a a bit more challenging (easily overcome, but with higher cost)

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124110272#Comment_124110272

Ya the new pottery road "bypass" is good, but I don't think it really moves people to where they need to go.

West - Maybe a bridge further down river connecting Crosshaven road towards ringaskiddy direction might be an expensive option!

East - An outer ring road connecting Shanbally roundabout to the Ballea Road/Potter Road first and then onto the Forest Road/Mountain road, could be a long term expernsive option.

hans aus dtschl

There's no way we should be talking investing in cars to a greater extent in Carrigaline right now. The answer is to move on with all the TPREP projects we were promised would "definitely" happen during the second bypass and TPREP consultations, before we start discussing a third bypass (a bypass of the bypass).

The Carrigaline TPREP needs to be done in full, not just the "car priority" bits. Until then, I will personally be submitting against any additional bypasses that come through public consultations and I presume others will too. This thing of "we'll get around to solving traffic issues, right after we get a new road" needs to stop.

I don't live in Carrigaline but I do drive to it and through it a lot. Yes it's a nightmare. But the answer definitely isn't "more cars".

DylanQuestion

Depending on the boundary definition, Carrigaline is probably close to 25k people now, if not more. There needs to be more buses between it and the City Centre, Douglas, Mahon, Little Island and Wilton (CUH) in my opinion, via Maryborough Hill and Donnybrook Hill but also the M28. Connections to West Cork are also important. At the moment, the 220 and 220X are bursting at the seams, and Bus Connects isn’t the radical change needed. I think at the minimum, the routes should be:

1. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - Maryborough - City Centre - Wilton (CUH)
2. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - Donnybrook - City Centre - Blackpool - Apple
3. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - M28 - Castletreasure - Douglas - Mahon
4. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - M28 - Mahon Point - Little Island
5. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - M28/N27 - City Centre
6. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - Passage West - Ringaskiddy
7. Ringaskiddy - Carrigaline - Ballygarvan - Airport - BlackAsh - Kent
8. Kinsale - R611 - Carrigaline - Ringaskiddy
9. Bandon - Airport - Ballygarvan - Carrigaline - Ringaskiddy
10. Crosshaven - Carrigaline - Ringaskiddy - M28 - Douglas - City Centre

There are some variants of these in Bus Connects, but I think all those 10 are needed at a minimum. All double decker and most high frequency. Carrigaline is unique in the Metro Area in that it has no proper way to walk out of it. It’s a massive town, but no towns are close by, and most of its connections to the rest of the city are either by national road or country road, neither of which are suitable for pedestrians. Before there can be any consideration of more roads, there needs to be more busses

Aontachtoir

Agree with the desperate need for far more buses between Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy and elsewhere, especially Douglas and Mahon. This interesting article states that nearly half of cars going northbound on the N28 in the mornings are bound for Mahon. An express service to Mahon up the N28 or via Douglas would probably deliver some benefits.

Incidentally, it also sounds like a Park and Ride for Carrigaline is now off the table. Is there anything to be said for more cars…?

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41768774.html

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122654#Comment_124122654

Is it too reductive to look at that reasoning and think they've essentially boiled it down to "people are currently using alternatives to the park and ride (which doesn't exist) therefore they won't use it if it's built"? I get the same sense with many public business cases, faulty reasoning used as an excuse to not go ahead with it.

hans aus dtschl

I can kind of understand why they don't propose a P&R at Carr's Hill, because you could probably collect those car journeys closer to source (Ringaskiddy, Carrigaline) but I hope they are properly considering and planning that "collection at source".

The original TPREP had the main street as a kind of plaza with only bus through-traffic, so with the Super Valu car park and maybe something on the Kilnagleary road, that could be the Carrigaline "park and ride" strategy? But as others are saying, it seems obvious there needs to be more routes now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122560#Comment_124122560

Not sure about all of your suggestions, but have you seen this, and can you reconcile your suggestions against what's proposed and see any gaps? https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Cork-New-Network-Outer-South.pdf

DylanQuestion

The proposed buses to pass through Carrigaline under that plan are:

• Number 4A and 4B (Carrigaline - Apple via Maryborough/Donnybrook and City Centre) [10 min frequency]
• Number 13A (Haulbowline to Kent Station via Airport, similar to 225) [hourly service]
• Number 15 (Carrigaline Primary Care Centre to Kent Station via Passage West and Douglas) [30 min frequency]
• Number L40 (Haulbowline to Fort Camden via Carrigaline) [30 min frequency]
• Number X42 (Fountainstown to Kent Station via M28, similar to 220A/220X) [hourly]

Some of those frequencies increase during peak hours, but that's the base frequency. So basically, the only areas serveed are the City Centre, Passage West/Monkstown, Douglas/Rochestown, Hollyhill/Guarranbraher, the Airport and Kent Station. Not great, especially since apparently most commuters on the M28 are going to Mahon Point more than the City Centre. I know the aim is to have more hopping on and off different routes since they'll all be timed better and stop at the same main stops. However, I think with such a big population, Carrigaline needs direct connections to CUH, UCC, Little Island and Mahon at a minimum. It would also be a good opportunity to link to West Cork, given its nearly in West Cork and a lot of people in West Cork don't want to go to the City Centre just to go back out to Ringaskiddy, a huge employment hub

KrisW1001

BusConnects is about connections, not direct services: the goal is that with high enough frequency, passengers will consider changing buses to get where they’re going - something that is almost unheard of in Cork, but is the norm in cities with proper bus services.

Douglas acts as a hub for services to/from Carrigaline, which makes most of those suggestions accesible with a single change of bus. If the 41X looped into the Black Ash on its trip along the South Link Road, then that would provide the West Cork to Ringaskiddy connection you mention.

That’s the basic system, but once the roadworks are done to create the core route corridors, it’s possible to add new services along different combinations of these corridors: any journey that can be achieved using a change of bus can also be provided as a point-to-point if there is sufficient demand - the trick is to know which of these possible point-to-point services would attract customers, and right now that’s really hard to discover.

Luckily, one of the benefits of the upcoming tap-on ticketing is that it will provide detailed information of the trips people actually take: if enough people are going changing to the 14 for CUH from Carrigaline at Douglas, then that can be used as a reason to provide a direct service along that route. (Actually, using a phone app, passengers could opt-in to send much more detailed journey information, up to and including their actual destination once they get off the bus, which would help determine where new services need to go and how often: basically, the same data that all of the taxi apps collect anyway)

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122823#Comment_124122823

I think it's more that they don't want people to get in the car in the first place if possible, so they're trying to collect from source in Carrigaline, Ringaskiddy and Crosshaven at-source. P&R are good, but only with a large external "catchment", which doesn't really exist further South than Carrigaline. A P&R or even just a car park to the South of Carrigaline (Captain's Boreen/Pottery Road) seems like it could do the job. 7-10min frequency on the 4A or 4B buses…

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124123128#Comment_124123128

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124122913#Comment_124122913

I understand about more roads = more cars = more traffic around Carrigaline. Still I think it needs some sort of by pass.

Anyway the bus routes are interesting. Especially bus connects. It is completely unheard of In Cork to take 1 bus, get off and change onto a 2nd bus. It will be revolutionary I feel, if it ever gets delivered!

Any updates on TPREP? Was announced in 2022 I think, but not a lot has happened on the ground. There is the new small greenway to herons wood and a pedestrian bridge being built. Anything else scheduled to happen this year?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124124258#Comment_124124258

Bits of the TPREP are being done piecemeal: the new road is done. The new cycle bridge is nearly done I think, for the strategic cycle corridor. I haven't seen much/anything about the Public Realm projects. I haven't seen anything about the primary pedestrian and cycle networks. I haven't seen anything about the secondary networks. I haven't seen anything about the feeder networks. I haven't seen anything on the new bus priority measures. The P&R is possibly dead. I've seen nothing on traffic management. I've seen nothing on parking management. But just because I haven't seen them, doesn't mean they're not happening though.

As per section 5 of the TPREP the short-term implementation plan was:

1. Main Street Public Realm (I've seen nothing on this)
2. Western Relief road (complete)
3. Western Cycle Network (as above, I've seen nothing on this)
4. Crosshaven Greenway (I've seen nothing on this)

So you might forgive me for not wanting to entertain discussion about the medium and long-term plans when a lot of the short-term plans aren't done! This is generally how we do transport projects in Ireland: propose an overall transport solution then just build the bits for cars and carry on to the next overall transport solution and build the car bits from that and so on.

Mr.CoolGuy

The cycleway on the eastern bridge isn't even anything to do with the TPREP. That was them going out on their own.

I think what happened is it sailed through consultation and planning too quickly. Now they're at the stage where they have to do a bit of work, they're holding back.

Latest I heard is they won't do anything until the Heron roundabout is a signalled 4 way junction. This sounds like can kicking to me. There's no reason they couldn't do 90% of the work independent of this.

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124125897#Comment_124125897

Jesus that is bleak!! For the biggest town in Cork and one of the biggest in Ireland, Carrigaline is criminally under developed.

At the very least could they bring the Greenway all the way from Herons Wood to Rafeen, would give more people in Herons wood and Janesville the option to bike or walk. This is mostly offline as well so would not impact too many people, especially cars!!

The other quick fix or Quick (well Quickish!!) Win would be to connect the new pedestrian bridge to the Crosshaven greenway. Looks like 1km on Google Maps. I wonder how would they do this, along the waterfront or main road? Seems to be some big new houses on the way though, might be an issue and the GAA club.

That way it would be relatively easy to connect Rafeen all the way to Crosshaven. Rather than spending millions on the Kinsale greenway that the locals don't want, would it make more sense to connect up these missing bits, like Monkstown to Rafeen or Ballincollig to UCC etc

sonnyblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124126218#Comment_124126218

I understand that there is only a small length of greenway to finish in Herons wood to join the last Phase of the Janeville estate containing the next phase of the greenway. This last housing phase is either under way or about to start.This will bring the greenway as far as the original brick bridge, on the Rock road, that the trains used to run under. It then piggy backs along the existing road and goes along the new motorway underpass over to the existing ringaskiddy road.

The council should be speaking to BAM now and suggesting that this overpass over the Rock road be built now so that they can get the greenway opened at least down as far as the turnoff for Raffeen and ready for when the motorway opens in 2028. Surely there could be some plan of action to join down to Monkstown and onto Passage then. Its only a few kms. I might write them an email…..

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124126532#Comment_124126532

Ya looks achievable, bit I imagine they won't do any of it until motorway, then wait a few years and then start construction, so maybe might be done by 2036……everything is so slow in this country!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124126532#Comment_124126532

Overpass over the rock road? Maybe they will use the original train bridge instead? Or is the rock road getting a larger upgrade? If that were the case I'd push for rock road to overpass the greenway still