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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

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  • Will the N28 remain a national road or will it be downgraded to regional? Where exactly does the new M28 become a new build?

    The old N28 between Carrs Hill and Douglas is now the R855 so it may take this designation south of Carrs Hill.




  • On the Facebook page
    Legal challenge to M28 EIA comes to an end.

    In 2016 the M28 steering group was formed to assess and identify issues which would arise out of the proposed Ringaskiddy to Cork motorway scheme to be known as the M28.

    Having engaged in the public consultation process it became clear that mitigation measures would not engineer out the many issues in relation to Noise and Air pollution, traffic gridlock and bio diversity relative to Maryborough Hill Douglas, Rochestown Rise, Lissadell, Mt Oval and Ballyheimeken quarry at Rafeen.

    Our group met with the then Minister for transport Shane Ross, Simon Coveney TD and Michael Martin TD along with various local public representatives where we set out concerns as to the damage that routing a section of the M28 through a densely populated area would have on residents.
    We advised that alternative route options were available which would deal with the many issues that even the consultant engineers for the road project accepted were inevitable should the project route down Carrs Hill to Bloomfield.

    Having submitted our objections to certain elements of the EIS we participated in the M28 An Bord Pleanala oral hearing in November/ December 2017. We placed all of the issues before the board. Unfortunately the board subsequently granted approval for the entire scheme despite the facts as follows;
    Demand management study for the N40 was not presented for examination.
    Traffic counting in and around Douglas and Rochestown was gathered in May 2014....the significance of this is that Easter fell during this period, schools were closed and not forgetting that as a consequence of the economic crash unemployment rate was between 13% 14 %. In effect very limited traffic was on our local roadway network during this time.

    Future developments as in SLRs ( strategic land reserves) in the Douglas and Upper Rochestown area where 1000s of houses are earmarked for development were to form part of the future traffic modelling system within the motorway design year to 2036. These were not considered.

    New land bridges connecting Donnybrook to Carrs Hill and Grange cross to Carrs Hill were also not included in the future traffic modelling predictions . It is now accepted that traffic volumes will largely increase in the near future and not just at peak hours but also during inter peak periods. The modelling figures which were subsequent amended gave very little comfort to residents.
    Noise pollution decibel levels will reach in excess of 84 dbl in and around Bloomfield R610 and despite the fact that these levels are quadruple the recommended WHO guidelines residents will have to put up with it.

    That is a fact and despite a courtesy of apology at the oral hearing from council engineers given the topography of the area noise mitigating measures will not be able to reduce the expected levels of noise for those living within the footprint of Bloomfield.

    As these are guidelines we have no legal recourse to stop this from happening.
    According to the motorway developer CCC/ TII Ballyheimeken quarry at Rafeen is to be the sole source of aggregate for the road project of which 2.1 million tonnes are to be extracted from this disused quarry.

    Ballyheimeken has a wide array of flora and fauna that thrive in this beautiful eco system. Millions of invertebrate, damsel flys and pennyroyal mint thrive there also. A pair of peregrine Falcons nest on the cliff face of this disused quarry. Yet following a review of the M28 route in 2014 it was decided to not only use the quarry for aggregate but run part of the motorway through it.
    The original route was through the disused golf course at Fernhill. This subsequently became an SLR ....????

    The quarry ceased major quarrying Operations years ago but continued to extract small amounts of aggregate on what its permission calls a campaign basis. The water table was beached many years ago and a lake formed which led to the development of the eco system there.

    Despite the very best efforts of ecologists and concerned groups the board gave its permission to not only restart operations at the quarry but to totally exhaust its 30 year permission in 24 months. Basically accelerating its extraction on a 10 fold basis. Killing everything that lives there in order to meet the M28 EIA construction timelines.

    There is however a sting in this very sad tale insofar as we the M28 Steering group were blocked by the high court from raising the facts that the planning permission for Rafeen Quarry handed down in 2008 by ...yes you guessed it... An Board Pleanala placed strict limits on extraction by way of Blasting , Rock breaking and other plant and machinery operating at the quarry and the conditions attached to this file place could only realise 100,000 tonnes of aggregate per year and not the 1,000000 tonnes that would be required to comply with the construction timelines as set in the EIA. A scoping exercise carried out in 2012 and based solely on the 08 planning file gave rise to the applicants response to the Natura element of the EIS and the boards decision on the natura of the EIA is based on this and nothing else.

    In his judgement Mr Justice McGrath acknowledged the notice party - Cork County Councils confirmation that the 08 planning at Rafeen is the extant permission for the M28 development. This is significant.

    It was the courts contention that any challenge of an already extant permission was tantamount to what is termed " An impermissable collateral attack" hence our acceptance to withdraw our case for appropriate assessments of this site.
    So ....where are we....!... much back slapping has been taking place over the past few days by the various interested partys not to mention the trolls on social media whose understanding and knowledge of environment assessment wouldn't fit on the back of a postage stamp.

    Much has been made that our group was / is against the motorway when a 5 minute scroll of our page would inform that we are and always have been and will continue to be in support of a roadway from ringaskiddy to Cork that delivers for all and not at the expense of residents who will be impacted by a section of this route.

    Indeed I have noted on one so called Cork page their rank amateur attempts to discredit our group through obvious cut and paste of misinformation and not professional journalism.

    My advice to them is as follows:

    Now that the M28 EIA has been approved and the legal challenge has ended how will this motorway be built at all given the fact that it's only source for aggregate that is Rafeen Quarry can not realise the 2.1 million tonnes of aggregate within the timeframe as set out in the EIA. And before you ask....the EIA does not permit or was ever assessed to import aggregate from anywhere else other than Rafeen....to do so would breach the EIA and to accelerate extraction outside of its 08 permission will also breach the EIA not to mention planning laws.

    Residents and concerned groups in and around Rafeen Ballyheimeken Quarry are alert to what has taken place both in the High Court and the Oral Hearing. Given the foregoing it remains to be seen as to whether there will be an amended planning application to the current permission however this I am assured will be met head on by those groups by way of challenge and or breach of planning should it occur.

    I trust the above informs and updates those of you who have been both supporters and followers of our campaign and our facebook page. It has been a trying time for many residents who gave much of their time and money to have the motorway diverted away from our area but alas we were not successful.

    Thank you for your time and much needed support over the past 5 years....it has been a privilege and one which I would gladly do all over again. On behalf of our committee I wish to thank you most sincerely as it is time for us to say goodbye.

    Yours sincerely,
    Gerard Harrington




  • Interesting comment on the steering group page. Person notes how he contributed but most of his neighbours couldn’t care less.




  • A long, tedious and characteristically self pitying epistle in two parts; the first a series of points which were dismissed by ABP and which the M28 Steering Group obviously conceded as they didn't raise them again and the rest being yet another lament for the precious and much loved flora and fauna of the hole in the ground known as Ballyheimeken quarry. This lot lost five times and still appear to believe that they are in the right. Quite sad really. Still it's great that they have been roundly and conclusively defeated and sent packing by "the highest court in the land" even if it did take 5 long years.
    It was the courts contention that any challenge of an already extant permission was tantamount to what is termed " An impermissable collateral attack"

    Reference to the impermissible collateral attack doctrine might be a little more convincing had they spelled impermissible correctly. 

    All in all they had their day five years in the sun holding many thousands of drivers to ransom on a daily basis. So now it's goodbye and good riddance from "the trolls on social media"

    Let construction commence !




  • Now that the M28 EIA has been approved and the legal challenge has ended how will this motorway be built at all given the fact that it's only source for aggregate that is Rafeen Quarry can not realise the 2.1 million tonnes of aggregate within the timeframe as set out in the EIA. And before you ask....the EIA does not permit or was ever assessed to import aggregate from anywhere else other than Rafeen....to do so would breach the EIA and to accelerate extraction outside of its 08 permission will also breach the EIA not to mention planning laws.

    Sounds like they want to go the AA5A route and keep running out the EIA, do they have a hope on this?


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  • Sounds like they want to go the AA5A route and keep running out the EIA, do they have a hope on this?

    Sorry for sounding stupid but can you explain this? I don't know what AA5A & EIA is.


    Googling AA5A brings me results for a Grumman plane and an American Airlines flight. Hence my confusion




  • ianobrien wrote: »
    Sorry for sounding stupid but can you explain this? I don't know what AA5A & EIA is.


    Googling AA5A brings me results for a Grumman plane and an American Airlines flight. Hence my confusion

    Sorry! "Alternative A5 Alliance" they are the opposition to the Dublin to Derry road in northern Ireland.

    EIA is an environmental impact assessment




  • Hibernicis wrote: »
    A long, tedious and characteristically self pitying epistle in two parts; the first a series of points which were dismissed by ABP and which the M28 Steering Group obviously conceded as they didn't raise them again and the rest being yet another lament for the precious and much loved flora and fauna of the hole in the ground known as Ballyheimeken quarry. This lot lost five times and still appear to believe that they are in the right. Quite sad really. Still it's great that they have been roundly and conclusively defeated and sent packing by "the highest court in the land" even if it did take 5 long years.



    Reference to the impermissible collateral attack doctrine might be a little more convincing had they spelled impermissible correctly.

    All in all they had their day five years in the sun holding many thousands of drivers to ransom on a daily basis. So now it's goodbye and good riddance from "the trolls on social media"

    Let construction commence !




    I imagine i can in all probability count on one hand the amount of the Steering Groups 10,000 followers who have any idea where the Ballyheimeken Quarry is.




  • kub wrote: »
    I imagine i can in all probability count on one hand the amount of the Steering Groups 10,000 followers who have any idea where the Ballyheimeken Quarry is.

    Although not from the area myself, I would be there quite a bit and the N28 as is has always been a shockingly poor road for at least the last decade.

    The M28 finally going ahead is a great result, and it's bemusing to see one last rant from the "steering group" quoted above.

    What I never understood though is how his lot were allowed call themselves a "steering group" (implying some sort of official connection with the project) when the reality seems to be nothing more than a bunch of self-serving locals?




  • “ Indeed I have noted on one so called Cork page their rank amateur attempts to discredit our group through obvious cut and paste of misinformation and not professional journalism.”

    What an ironic paragraph. Who exactly is he referring to?


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  • _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    What I never understood though is how his lot were allowed call themselves a "steering group" (implying some sort of official connection with the project) when the reality seems to be nothing more than a bunch of self-serving locals?

    In the most part, you can call yourself whatever you want. The country is full of private businesses with signs like ‘Official Tourist Office’ outside. I could set up the National Music & Poetry Authority tomorrow, and I very much doubt I’d be breaking any laws. The NEC in Killarney is so-named because they can.




  • Does this project now need to go before Government to approve before funding can be approved in Europe etc and how long is all that likely to take




  • danny004 wrote: »
    Does this project now need to go before Government to approve before funding can be approved in Europe etc and how long is all that likely to take

    Considering they've given themselves 3 more years before construction, I'd say it'll take at least 3 years.

    I'm not getting smart, just saying what the timeline indicates.




  • I have tried and failed to find this quarry on a map, can someone point it out? Rafeen seems to cover a wide area and I don't see any water-filled quarries.




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    I have tried and failed to find this quarry on a map, can someone point it out? Rafeen seems to cover a wide area and I don't see any water-filled quarries.

    Is that it, beside Ballygarvan GAA?




  • Is that it, beside Ballygarvan GAA?

    Just beyond the GAA club if you’re going towards Carrigaline




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    I have tried and failed to find this quarry on a map, can someone point it out? Rafeen seems to cover a wide area and I don't see any water-filled quarries.

    Here you go https://www.google.ie/maps/place/51°49'52.2%22N+8°22'24.6%22W/@51.831161,-8.3756757,662m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d51.831161!4d-8.3734866

    In case it needs to be said it is private property, allegedly dangerous and there is no right of way or right of admittance.




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    Considering they've given themselves 3 more years before construction, I'd say it'll take at least 3 years.

    I'm not getting smart, just saying what the timeline indicates.

    You're correct you're not being smart ,your being stupid as that wasn't the trajectory of my question as I think most others would have understood.




  • I would really hope that the € for this has been ring-fenced so that once construction (incl. pre-work) is ready, then so is the cash!

    Given that the Port of Cork is relying on this, and sea-trade being such a hot topic, I'm presuming* that this will not be further delayed.

    *I know, I shouldn't presume anything...but just once....!




  • Just beyond the GAA club if you’re going towards Carrigaline

    That's not it. That's an active Roadstone quarry and the M28 goes nowhere near it.


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  • blindsider wrote: »
    I would really hope that the € for this has been ring-fenced so that once construction (incl. pre-work) is ready, then so is the cash!

    Given that the Port of Cork is relying on this, and sea-trade being such a hot topic, I'm presuming* that this will not be further delayed.

    *I know, I shouldn't presume anything...but just once....!


    I thought this was being paid for by EU funds under something called Ten-T ?


    If that is the case then surely funding is not a worry.




  • kub wrote: »
    I thought this was being paid for by EU funds under something called Ten-T ?


    If that is the case then surely funding is not a worry.
    Partially paid for. The Irish exchequer will still be paying for the majority of it.




  • anacc wrote: »
    That's not it. That's an active Roadstone quarry and the M28 goes nowhere near it.

    I didn’t read the rest of the replies, just that one.




  • Partially paid for. The Irish exchequer will still be paying for the majority of it.

    Indeed - EU funding is overrated - I believe we'll only get 10%.




  • spacetweek wrote: »
    Indeed - EU funding is overrated - I believe we'll only get 10%.

    Agreed. People seem to think EU funding comes from a bountiful money tree, to be harvested whenever the Irish government don't want to pay for something themselves. It's really more of a top-up for projects that complement overall European goals, with the state still doing the heavy lifting.

    'EU Funding' is also often suggested to try and justify totally unviable or low priority projects, because it's seen as a way of bypassing "them up in Dublin who hate the West/South/North/East". The logic being that their pet project is inherently viable and only gets rejected because of biased politicians, and that these wise EU level decision makers, unclouded by this bias will judge the project worthwhile.




  • Agreed. People seem to think EU funding comes from a bountiful money tree, to be harvested whenever the Irish government don't want to pay for something themselves. It's really more of a top-up for projects that complement overall European goals, with the state still doing the heavy lifting.

    'EU Funding' is also often suggested to try and justify totally unviable or low priority projects, because it's seen as a way of bypassing "them up in Dublin who hate the West/South/North/East". The logic being that their pet project is inherently viable and only gets rejected because of biased politicians, and that these wise EU level decision makers, unclouded by this bias will judge the project worthwhile.

    It is context/country dependent also though. Some countries are heavily inclined to invest in certain areas, the EU often takes a more 'balanced' approach as it doesn't have the same political baggage etc to deal with, so they can more freely 'encourage' development in underdeveloped regions. It can also provide political cover for a government who genuinely might want to improve a region but its politically difficult to justify, so they can say "project will receive EU funding" and mollify people.

    Its a useful tool to have and of course also helps strengthen overall ties between EU nations and the overall prosperity of the bloc




  • It is context/country dependent also though. Some countries are heavily inclined to invest in certain areas, the EU often takes a more 'balanced' approach as it doesn't have the same political baggage etc to deal with, so they can more freely 'encourage' development in underdeveloped regions. It can also provide political cover for a government who genuinely might want to improve a region but its politically difficult to justify, so they can say "project will receive EU funding" and mollify people.

    Its a useful tool to have and of course also helps strengthen overall ties between EU nations and the overall prosperity of the bloc

    I agree with the principle that you describe, and understand funds being used to even up imbalances. But too often I see "EU funding" being thrown out in desperation after all national appraisals have rejected the proposal, thinking the EU will somehow see silk purse potential in their sows ear of a project.




  • I agree with the principle that you describe, and understand funds being used to even up imbalances. But too often I see "EU funding" being thrown out in desperation after all national appraisals have rejected the proposal, thinking the EU will somehow see silk purse potential in their sows ear of a project.

    Oh definitely, thankfully the EU are good at producing fairly clear cut criteria, in infrastructure, for example, the Ten-T Network is well defined so only those routes will get funding under that stream.




  • Two serious incidents yesterday as traffic levels return to normal on Carr's Hill. Hopefully all ok.


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  • People were crashing all over the place yesterday, it was bonkers. Also a crash outbound at Little Island, and then when I was coming home there was one going inbound. Not sure what was in the air.


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