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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Confusing headline. The Murnane & O'Shea Limited development isn't in "outer" Moneygourney, "wider" Moneygourney or anywhere else in Moneygourney - apart from a very small sliver it is actually in Castletreasure (other side of the N/M28), immediately South of the Cairn development (Bayly). The site consists of a number (not all) of the ploughed fields in the following map and the woodland to the right. The existing N28 is clearly visible. The site runs right up to the M28 CPO boundary. The bridge will run from the site to Carr's Hill, similar to the "new" bridge on Woodland Drive further North. It will be located about 100m North of the fork at the top of Carr's hill, opposite the three bungalows that are on the right as you head down the hill - I've roughly indicated the site of the bridge in yellow. There will a further bridge crossing the stream further South as part of the Ballybrack Cycle Scheme.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/CaEGup8vnBbA8xo47

    Post edited by Hibernicis on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Very good point.

    There were a number of discussions about this earlier in this thread if you fancy trawling back. It was also mentioned in post #1262 in this thread:

    Adrian Kavanagh currently lists the following candidates for CSC:

    Cork South-Central (5 seats):

     Deputy Micheál Martin (Fianna Fáil), Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Sinn Féin), Senator Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael), Cllr. Séamus McGrath (Fianna Fáil), Cllr. Úna McCarthy (Fine Gael), Cllr. Shane O’Callaghan (Fine Gael), Cllr. Laura Harmon (Labour Party), Cllr. Pádraig Rice (Social Democrats), Mick Finn (Independent), Anna Daly (Aontú), Monica Oikeh (Green Party)

    Buttimer was 100% against the M28 as proposed by the NRA/TII/CCC and an ardent support of the self styled "M28 Steering Group"

    Martin didn't say much but attended a number of the events organised by Harrington and his "M28 Steering Group". His PA and loyal side kick Mary Rose Desmond, who wouldn't blink without his assent, was a vociferous supporter of the "M28 Steering Group" attending and being photographed at many of their events and this could be taken as a clear indication of where Martin's support lay, while allowing him to remain aloof. As always, there is almost noting on the record with which he can be confronted…..

    The McGrath brothers as with so many issues, did a two faced thing in order to please everybody, on the one hand saying that an improved road was extremely necessary for the hard pressed long suffering residents in their Carrigaline fiefdom, while at the same time that the voices of the residents needed to be listed to attentively and their views taken on board. In other words saying everything and nothing as is typical.

    I'm not aware of any of the others listed as candidates having taken a stance on the matter.

    The above mentioned were complicit in the absolutely pointless 3 year delay in the road proceeding. Not one CSC politician was openly or vocally in support of the M28. Of course as I've said before that won't prevent any of the claiming the credit or turning up for Fanta and buns when the road is opened.

    Post edited by Hibernicis on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    As with yourself, I am hugely conscious that a person was very seriously injured in the crash and I really hope they recover and that the injuries are not life changing etc so thoughts go out to them.

    However I do think the Guards have serious questions to answer about what happened on Wednesday. They fully closed Bloomfield access to the N28 but that also took out the possibility of aaccessing the Rochestown Road. That caused absolute chaos and led to the bizarre scenario of forcing traffic coming through the tunnel to go as far as the Kindale Road roundabout to either loop around and try to take one of the Douglas W or Douglas exits or exit through Turners Cross/City Link to take the Douglas or South Douglas Roads or go up through Frankfield etc. There appeared to be no reason whatsoever to not let cars access Bloomfield exits but then be prevented from going onto N28.

    At the same time, there wasn't a Guard to be seen at any junction whatsoever to try to help traffic flows - Well Road jct, Douglas W exit, Skehard Road jct etc etc. Meanwhile the twitter posts, including the Guards own post, simply said N28 closed, use alternate route without any suggestion whatsoever as to what the alternative might be.

    I appreciate this was an unusual scenario, but I thought that was what contingency planning should be, by definition, planning for...?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Not strictly M28, but I understand that works to improve the 'streetscape' in and around Ringaskiddy is starting next week. Might mean more disruption for those going to the NMCI, public park, Haulbowline and the Crematorium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    November M28 update from the amazing Dronehawk



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,605 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The embankments through and west of Raffeen Quarry are remarkable. Great to have such major earthworks done before any main contract commences.

    Going by the eastern 1.5km on the video this is effectively under construction now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The embankment looks great and logically it makes sense to get the major earthworks out of the way as early as possible, especially if fill is available. However I'm glad to see it completed for another reason. There has been a cloud hanging over Ballyhemiken (Rafeen) Quarry for quite some time. As he slammed the door on his way out, after accepting defeat in the Judicial Review and the subsequent failed appeals, the leader of the 10,000 ranted about a potential poisoned pill. You'll remember that despite all the grandstanding that the objectors did about the proposed M28 dividing communities, quality of life, impact on Rochestown etc etc, the grounds for the judicial review and later appeals related most solely to the quarry and the quarrying licences/permissions. Harrington claimed that the plan to supply 50% of the fill required for the project by re-opening the quarry for extraction was in breach of the original quarrying permission (predating the M28 plans) as the amount to be extracted was the total amount permitted over the life of the quarry, and that the permission allowed for this quantity to be extracted evenly over the multi-decade life of the quarry. He contended that extracting the full amount in one or two years as was now proposed was a significant material breach of the original quarry permission and that no new permission had been applied for or granted. In his final rant there was a sweeping "we will be watching and won't fail to consult with our legal advisors" threat and I've always worried that this could re-emerge in the form of an injunction when the quarry reopened. Looks like it's too late for that now and that extraction is well underway and the risk has passed proving once again that he was nothing other than a pompous, cantankerous, egoistical and totally ineffectual windbag, who cost the taxpayer an awful lot of money and ended up with nothing to show for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭sonnyblack


    One would hope that all these advance groundworks will shorten the overall build significantly when it starts next year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    Any word on whether the Construction Tender has been awarded yet?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭blindsider


    DroneHawk's latest video - focusing on the 'last mile' single carriage-way road from Ringaskiddy to the M28

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itrgj9CPJCg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Good to see Sorensen getting stuck in on the protected road from Barnehely to Ringaskiddy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭Baldilocks


    I see the current end date is now 2030……

    that's fairly depressing for 12.5km (2.5km/yr)… with no significant bridges, tunnels, etc..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    That's the required end date. It has a 3 year build schedule so will be open by 2028 once the tender is awarded this year.

    I love DroneHawks videos, but he does get a some of the comments he puts on screen wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Some of the personal comments he puts on Youtube can be wonky too. He had been responding positively to a lot of "bring bak de traaaane" posts on the Youghal Greenway videos. The usual "no hi vis" and "lycra clad" bingo cards. Again, absolutely fantastic videos, just the written content isn't perfect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭sonnyblack


    Do you think it will still take 3 years when the main contract begins? There has been a lot of earthmoving/groundworks completed as part of the enabling works? They could get stuck into working on the concrete structures quite quickly in the build I would have thought. It will be interesting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Mr.CoolGuy


    Bloomfield tie-in and Maryborough is probably the most finicky parts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 Itoa


    Well BAM have won the tender so god knows……….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭eastie17


    who did dunkettle?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭sonnyblack




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭sonnyblack


    Is that definite? Any news of when they will start? Isn't there less leeway for extras in fixed price infrastructural projects? If there's a ton of rock along the route then its tough luck. You've seen the cards in the the tender documents, including site investigations, and you have to play them.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    BAM are one of the most reliable construction companies in Ireland. Ignore the Childrens Hospital, it's a one off. Quite a lot of the responsibility for that debacle lies with the contract the government used and multiple HSE changes after construction started.

    They are currently building (on time and on budget) the Waterford North Quays project, Galway Ceannt Station and the N5 Westport to Turlough. In the past they've built the New Ross Bypass (including the Rose Kennedy Bridge), The Newlands Cross overbridge, the Waterford Bypass (including the Suir Bridge), the Portlaoise bypass and the Dundalk Bypass (including the Boyne Bridge) along with many other projects.

    If they get this job there are no worries about the time or the budget. TII don't use (and never have used) the type of contract used for the Childrens Hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    BAM Civil will do N28.

    BAM Building is doing the Children’s Hospital.

    They have the same ultimate owner, but they’re separate organisations within that group: this was a lot clearer before 2008 when they traded as Ascon and Rohcon, respectively.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Just to be clear, there are two contracts. Sorensen Civil Engineering are main contractor for the Protected Road Project from Barnahely to Ringaskiddy. BAM Ireland (BAM Civil) are apparently the contractor for the Motorway section from Bloomfield to Barnahely, which incorporates a short non-motorway stretch at it’s Northern end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Where is the BAM information coming from, apart from further up this thread? I’d imagine that the minister would have to give final consent to sign a contract of that size, and right now we have only a caretaker minister. There’s a longstanding tradition that caretaker ministers don’t take major decisions, even if they are legally entitled to do so. Now that I write that, it occurs to me that this might be the reason for the delay in finalising the contract. Maybe there is a contract written up somewhere with BAM’s name on it, waiting for a nod from the shiny new minister.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Have heard BAM also - totally different source - in Dublin, would you believe it? 99% reliable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    I had the same question regarding the source of the news that the main contract had been warded to BAM. While I don't doubt the accuracy of the grapevine/gossip quoted here, I too couldn't find any authoritative source, which is why I put the word "apparently" in my post.

    I'm unclear whether the M28 project requires Ministerial or Cabinet approval, given the transition from the PSC to the Infrastructure Guidelines, the proximity between this project's value and the "major project" classification and the outgoing Minister's contempt for the PSC when it suited his purposes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I’m only surmising here but, in view of the huge amount of taxpayer monies being allocated, one final ministerial signature doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. That’s not the same thing as cabinet approval. When my boss approves me to spend up to €5,000 on a work trip, they still have to sign off on the airfare and the hotel reservation, even if they’re within the approved limit. Checks and balances. But I really don’t know how these things work in the public sector.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    I completely agree that sign-off on behalf of the taxpayer is appropriate and necessary. My question (which I worded badly) was which of Ministerial or Cabinet approval would be required in this case. From memory, the threshold for Decision Gate 3 Cabinet approval was due to increase to €200m.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I’ve just noticed something that I’d previously missed in the August press release about the contract going to tender. The last paragraph says, “subject to cabinet approval”:

    https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/news/tender-published-for-m28-motorway-linking-rochestown-with-ringaskiddy

    As I mentioned before, longstanding tradition is that caretaker governments don’t write big cheques. So that likely explains the delay. Now that the new cabinet is finally in place, it’s presumably just a case of how quickly the new minister gets up to speed. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Are they even at the point of seeking Cabinet approval? There are a lot of formalities to go through and loose ends to be tied up before awarding a contract like this, particularly with extra scrutiny which would come if awarded to BAM.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I really don’t know. But several people have said recently in this thread that the contract is going to BAM, which sounds like things are at least close. And I’m just saying that we’re now out of the political interregnum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    BAM seem to be the lowest price tenderer but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be recommended for contract award. For a €200m contract with tender issued in August, I'd be surprised if they were ready to go to Cabinet this soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    There is machinery back at the Rochestown Road entrance to Bloomfield



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,605 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Reply to a PQ from new TD Seamus McGrath on January 22nd

    Appointment of the main contractor and commencement of work is subject to Government Consent to award the contract under the Infrastructure Guidelines. In that regard, the final business case was submitted to the Department of Transport on December 20th.

    Noting the above position, I have referred your question to TII for a direct reply updating you as to the latest status of the project. Please advise my private office if you do not receive a reply within 10 working days.

    This should move fairly quickly when the new Government is up and running.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    A further 350 houses planned just south of Carrigaline. The town is at absolute bursting point.

    It will have a single dumbbell interchange linking it to the M28. I’ve said before that a second interchange was required to feed into the R613 west of the town.

    The traffic trying to enter the town at peak times on the R611 will IMO back out onto the M28 from the Cork direction.


    It’s already horrendous. However, we’ll not have nearly twice the flow heading towards the R611 when the M28 opens. It’ll be chaos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Mr.CoolGuy


    The extensive and ambituos Cork commuter rail improvements will help here no doubt. If not, then the Luas which will terminate about 10 minutes from the city centre will take up the slack



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I haven’t heard of any plans to bring commuter or light rail to Carrigaline. I think more improvements to bus services / bus connect is as good as Carrigaline can hope for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    A light rail line that goes from the city centre to Carrigaline via Douglas Road, Carrigaline Road and the existing N28 would be great. Although, a big problem is the lack of density along the existing N28



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭Mr.CoolGuy


    Apologies, bad habit of mine but that comment was dripping in sarcasm. Unfortunately the southern edges of the city have no public transport planned in either short, medium or long term apart from Bus Connects, and our friends in the city/city council have done their best to make that unviable.

    I have spoken to elected and non-elected candidates on this and they don't want to know. They just blurt out "Bus Connects" and consider the matter closed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Cork's not getting any light rail anyway, the City Council dinosaurs put the nail in that coffin with their repeated "WhAt AbOuT dE cAr pArKiNg?" meetings when NTA wanted to push it through. The culture is changing albeit slowly.

    Mind you there's plenty of dinosaurs in Carrigaline too, blocking the greenway and pushing back against the proposed urban realm project. TLDR: Car town by car people for car people.



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