Why are we looking to charities to help Asian Disaster victims?

logonapr

We are seeing great examples of generous donations from the general public in Ireland and also in many other countries to a huge number of different charities.
I can't help but feel that we should not be looking towards charities to deal with major disasters such as we are presently witnessing.
I can't understand why more people are not insisting on their governments making massive donations to help. I'm talking about contributions on a level that will be felt by us and not just of amounts that are not much more than the equivalent to petty cash in national terms.
When one thinks we wasted over 50 million on electronic voting it puts our national contribution into context. The US increased their commitment by tenfold today. Sounds great until you discover this is less that their war effort in Iraq costs for just 2 days.
I, for one, would not object to 2 cent going onto my taxes permanently with one going towards poverty and the other for the various disaster appeals. My only requirement would be that an independent agency would manage the funds so as to prevent politicians exploiting it.
If all rich countries (like us!) wanted to we could make a real difference by having a poverty/disaster relief tax.
As great as the 45 million so far collected by Irish charities is, it is really only a drop in the ocean to what will be needed and within a few weeks we will all forget about it as we have about Sudan, Beslan etc once these events disappeared off our news media.

D!ve^Bomb!

When i go into work on Sun, i'm gonna leave a collection box by the till in the canteen, and i'm gonna mail the whole building and ask them that if they cannot give much, at least give whatever change you get from when you pay for your dinner/lunch, hopefully, after a week or so there'll be a couple of hundred saved up in change..

logonapr

All very laudable but surely we need a better respoonse than boxes beside tills etc.
With so many charities all doing their own thing and many of them spending a good bit on administration and fund raising I feel that as well intentioned as it is that charities are not the way forward.
Arguably they mainly help ease our own consciences as even with all these charities in place for years have they had any more effect than a band aid.
Surely it is time that a real response is given and this can only be done by the governments of the wealthier nations.

MojoMaker

45 million collected by Irish charities?? Surely you mean the €2m pledged thus far. We'd be doing bloody well to ever collect €45m...for anything.

gandalf

Err that 45 Million has been collected by British Charities !!!

Irish Charities have collected around 3 Million so far with the government pledging €10 million.

Uthur

Apparantly more than 50% of money collected by a typical charity ends up going into administration and advertising etc. In chronic cases this has been known to rise to 90% - and that's for the honest charities! I'm not saying that governments could do a more efficient job (they probably couldn't) but at least it would remove the advertising costs (which are massive for tv).

logonapr

Sorry meant to say 45 million in UK and around 3 here. Even if it doubles, triples or quadruples in all the countries collecting it still will only make a tiny, tiny dent in extent of problem. It also will do nothing for future disasters or poverty that is ongoing.
Not trying to knock peoples generosity or intentions but simply questioning if the charity route achieves anything beyond easing our own consciences.

is_that_so

I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with the post. I think the sentiment is well-meant but unfortunately it forces people into giving to charity. Charities themselves speak of "donor fatigue" and I think it is true. There is only so much we can give. We give according to our means. There are many other charities that do other types of work. In an ideal world many of these would not be needed to help children ,women, disabled etc. It is also true that stories disappear off the radar- 30 days is the shelf-life of a story unless someone keeps it alive which is where activists and charities come in.
As regards world poverty most of the answer is with governments and banks.
http://www.jubilee2000uk.org/

Drop the Debt !!

MojoMaker

How many people prepared to stay in tonight and donate the otherwise pi$$ed away €100-odd to the Red Cross?

Might be a better reflection of the spirit of the Irish people. There's not a lot we can personally do but fronting our booze money is certainly a step in the right direction.

is_that_so

Pubs and clubs are being asked to have charity buckets available so maybe some good will come out of the evening

alleepally

The UN guy was entirely right and the OP is correct. We have to lobby our Government to meet development targets... A small nation like ours can make a difference...

www.keepourword.org

But in the meantime.... Put anything you can in a collection box... There's a collection at all masses at the weekend if you run out of money in the pub!!!

D!ve^Bomb!

i think you underestimate the power of a collection box.. a box beside a till may seem small, but like the saying goes, 'every penny counts'. and it contributes a hell of a lot..

Oh yeah, anyone any idea what i could use as a collection box all i have is on big tin can that used to house lollipops:)(approx 1ft high) but that's it.. if possible i'd like to have a few, maybe one in each kitchen(there's a kitchen on both floors).. that way when people get a can or a bar, they can put their change into the box...

Besides, some poeple are actually really generous and will stick a fiver or a tenner in there as well.. it all adds up.

The Real B-man

exacltyl why should charitys in ireland have to pay for life saving machines in hospitals in a well developed country like ireland???

Oriel

More importantly,
What the **** is money going to do, really?
That's not what makes the world go round, so why is it going to make the difference in a place where money is of no help?

Human aid is what is needed most.

Please help.
Trust me, if there was a way I could go out there, I would.

S.

simu

sinecurea wrote:

More importantly,
What the **** is money going to do, really?
That's not what makes the world go round, so why is it going to make the difference in a place where money is of no help?

Human aid is what is needed most.

Please help.
Trust me, if there was a way I could go out there, I would.

S.

???

Provide medical staff & supplies, food, clean water, shelter, help with rebuilding etc etc

JackKelly

sinecurea wrote:

More importantly,
What the **** is money going to do, really?
That's not what makes the world go round, so why is it going to make the difference in a place where money is of no help?

Human aid is what is needed most.

Please help.
Trust me, if there was a way I could go out there, I would.

S.

Seriously,think about the first part. The money goes to the buying of everrything basically.

I agree with the "if i could go out there" thing though.

chewy

i duno if theres a dfiference betwenn cahrities and development NGO's

the red cross is asking for cash donations so it spend money on food in the local country rather then buying and shipping it from the uk...

you could alwasy donate to local ngo in the countries themsleves rather then international agencies cut down on layers of beaucracy...

de5p0i1er

logonapr wrote:

I, for one, would not object to 2 cent going onto my taxes permanently with one going towards poverty and the other for the various disaster appeals. My only requirement would be that an independent agency would manage the funds so as to prevent politicians exploiting it.
If all rich countries (like us!) wanted to we could make a real difference by having a poverty/disaster relief tax.

You can't force ppl to give to charities just because something bad happens in the world. We all should make donations to things like this but some ppl won't and you can't force ppl to give away there money.

is_that_so wrote:

Pubs and clubs are being asked to have charity buckets available so maybe some good will come out of the evening

I was in to pubs this evening and both had buckets on the bar and at some point during the night one of the bar staff went around the bar with the bucket and asked for money from everybody.

chewy

went to the keepourword site and signed the petition but why is the minister tom kitt who's government is refusing to keep their word standing smiling along with bono about keeping our word... is this not totally a government decision?

is_that_so

sinecurea wrote:

More importantly,
What the **** is money going to do, really?
That's not what makes the world go round, so why is it going to make the difference in a place where money is of no help?

Human aid is what is needed most.

Please help.
Trust me, if there was a way I could go out there, I would.

S.

The agencies themselves asked for cash. They can buy things cheaper locally. As for volunteering those agencies that are recruiting are looking for people with experience. However much any one of us want to go out there and help, someone with no experience with humanitarian crises would be no help in this situation, more of a hindrance. Money is our form of human aid.

alleepally

chewy wrote:

went to the keepourword site and signed the petition but why is the minister tom kitt who's government is refusing to keep their word standing smiling along with bono about keeping our word... is this not totally a government decision?

The government quite neatly focus the attention on dropping the debt campaign , hence the Bono connection whilst quietly rowing back on the commitment to ensure 0.7% of GDP goes to foreign aid. Both issues are interlinked of course but the latter is one we can directly influence. If enough people send those letters and sign the petition, politicians will take note. 13,000 or so have signed cards and the petition online..... I've had responses from ministers on the issue by post and I'm not satisfied with the answers I got so I'm going to continue writing to them. I am also sending a letter to the local newspaper to highlight the issue - we can't let this commitment on foreign aid slip. It's not good enough.

alleepally

de5p0i1er wrote:

You can't force ppl to give to charities just because something bad happens in the world. We all should make donations to things like this but some ppl won't and you can't force ppl to give away there money.
.

Your quite right, we can't force people to give away their money and aid agencies consistently say that private donations cannot be depended on which is why the agencices are heavily involved in issues such as the millenium goals, fair trade, dropt the debt.

Each and every one of us MUST ensure that we lobby politicians to ensure that we meet our foreign aid obligations.

As an example, the plastic card tax the government enforced a few years back. A sneaky and unfair tax...I would have no objections if this tax were renamed as a foreign aid tax... It raises 70 MILLION A YEAR!!!! Eh, sorry Bertie - 10 MILL doesn't cut it me old mate.. I want the card tax to go to save lives...

alleepally

Make Poverty History

Just launched today... I'd urge everyone to start wearing the white band this year. Make it your new years resolution. A brilliant concept and a very visible way to get more people thinking about the issues of aid, debt and trade

http://www.makepovertyhistory.com/home.html

JackKelly

i would happily buy one as long as it doesnt turn out like a Lance Armstrong thing with everyone wearing them cause they look good. Out of the 3 friends of mine who have the yellow ones, none of them payed for them.

Edit:Actually, the white bands are a far better idea. Its more of a gesture.

MojoMaker

alleepally wrote:

The government quite neatly focus the attention on dropping the debt campaign , hence the Bono connection whilst quietly rowing back on the commitment to ensure 0.7% of GDP goes to foreign aid. Both issues are interlinked of course but the latter is one we can directly influence. If enough people send those letters and sign the petition, politicians will take note. 13,000 or so have signed cards and the petition online..... I've had responses from ministers on the issue by post and I'm not satisfied with the answers I got so I'm going to continue writing to them. I am also sending a letter to the local newspaper to highlight the issue - we can't let this commitment on foreign aid slip. It's not good enough.

Yeah yeah, foreign aid is sooo much sexier than domestic aid. Really tugs at the heart strings watching flies crawling over the face of African children but what about the very serious homeless problem in Ireland, particularly Dublin. I agree it is in no way atractive to stand up and face a problem like that, a problem of our own making. Far too close to home for that.

Rozabeez

I'm hoping that my Youth Club will hold something to collect money, hopefully we can do a few things. Any ideas?

dangerman

It's an impossible conundrum.

Should I give according to my means? Well what does that mean? I don't need the computer I'm typing this on, I don't need to go out tonight I don't need...

I don't have a full time job...should I go over and help? Could I help?

It's an impossible balance to strike.

One thing on the news tonight was the suggestion that the Irish army should go - I 100% agree - I'd send a bunch of EU battlegroups too.

interesting point of view in this article on why the us goverment shouldn't give any money:
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10688&news_iv_ctrl=1021

The United States government, however, should not give any money to help the tsunami victims. Why? Because the money is not the government's to give.

Blisterman

I think it should be up to the individuals to give money, not the government. I'll be giving money to them.

alleepally

MojoMaker wrote:

Yeah yeah, foreign aid is sooo much sexier than domestic aid. Really tugs at the heart strings watching flies crawling over the face of African children but what about the very serious homeless problem in Ireland, particularly Dublin. I agree it is in no way atractive to stand up and face a problem like that, a problem of our own making. Far too close to home for that.

Excuse me but that's bullsh1t... You're assuming a lot there. I feel strongly about this issue AND many others too - and you're right - homelessness is an absolute disgrace and if you feel strongly about it tell others in a positive way and make them care too. Don't assume someone doesn't care about domestic issues just because they are passionate about foreign issues....

captainplanet

150,000 people? in one disaster? over 40 million people have died from aids in africa. since the asian disaster, over 150,000 people have died from aids. by 2025, 80% of children in africa will be orphans.
how about giving some of that money to help them?

elivsvonchiaing

... From dangerman's link: "David Holcberg is a research associate at the Ayn Rand Institute in Irvine, Calif. The Institute promotes the philosophy of Ayn Rand, author of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead."

Seriously thought this post (on link - not Dangerman;s); Holcberg's, was from an 11 year old! The idea that the world is unconnected; is what you would expect from from some white-racist bitter jerk gas-pump attendant that has to remember his high-school Spanish when speaking to his boss.

American foreign policy completely ignored - lack of payout to Americans from US army induced health problems - totally ignored.

This man is an arch-asshole!

Cactus Col

captainplanet wrote:

150,000 people? in one disaster? over 40 million people have died from aids in africa. since the asian disaster, over 150,000 people have died from aids. by 2025, 80% of children in africa will be orphans.
how about giving some of that money to help them?

I guess that's the problem with charities, there's always another cause that needs the money just as badly.

A Dub in Glasgo

captainplanet wrote:

150,000 people? in one disaster? over 40 million people have died from aids in africa. since the asian disaster, over 150,000 people have died from aids. by 2025, 80% of children in africa will be orphans.
how about giving some of that money to help them?

The AIDS problem is a huge although those figures would be a lot lower if some of the religions get to fcuk with their preaching against using condoms. Their stance is shameful.

Cactus Col

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The AIDS problem is a huge although those figures would be a lot lower if some of the religions get to fcuk with their preaching against using condoms. Their stance is shameful.

It is shameful, however, it is not any kind of excuse.

Afterall sex before marriage is also a sin, but it stops very few people from doing it. (What I'm saying here is, if your gonna sin by having sex, why would you think twice about using a condom, except for your own selfish purposes in not wearing one.)

It's a sociological problem. Educate the ignorant.

billy the squid

What would you have people do, go out there themselves?

Isn't it better to send the aid agencies money so they can buy stuff that they do need rather than receive actual items from donators that they don't need. if donators were to send nothing but food, there would be food going off piling up with no one to eat it, if they were sending nothing but blankets then the people would starve to death.

and even aid workers have to feed their families, so why shouldnt some of their money go to administation and aid staff. they could be working in a nice little office like you but they chose to go out and risk exposure to all sorts of dangers. what is to stop a secondary wave hitting that area.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cactus Col wrote:

It is shameful, however, it is not any kind of excuse.

Afterall sex before marriage is also a sin, but it stops very few people from doing it. (What I'm saying here is, if your gonna sin by having sex, why would you think twice about using a condom, except for your own selfish purposes in not wearing one.)

It's a sociological problem. Educate the ignorant.

Any kind of excuse for what? The fact of the matter is that people are dying needlessly because of some interpretation of a book that was written over 2,000 years ago that apparantly says 'do not use condoms'.

No point in sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring these facts. I totally agree with educating the ignorant and a good starting point is telling people to ignore the 'advice' of some religions. This 'advice' is causing millions of people to lose their lives.

Cactus Col

I know this is probably getting away from the point of the thread so sorry,

but, my point was that people aren't dying because the bible says not to use condoms (or at least interpretations of the bible say that). If people believed so strongly in the bible that they don't use condoms, then they wouldn't be having pre-married sex, or sex with anybody else but their spouse.

billy the squid

It is shameful, however, it is not any kind of excuse.

Afterall sex before marriage is also a sin, but it stops very few people from doing it. (What I'm saying here is, if your gonna sin by having sex, why would you think twice about using a condom, except for your own selfish purposes in not wearing one.)

It's a sociological problem. Educate the ignorant.

what has the wearing of condoms have to do with charitable organisations.

there are countries in places like africa where people have not been educated probperly about safe sex. not to mention the fact that different cultures treat the act of sex differently to that done by the christian community.

as well as that AIDS is not exclusively a sexually transmitted desease. it can also be passed on through contaminated blood transfusions. there are poorer medical facilities in the likes of africa and asia who would not have the propper equipment to screen for AIDS contamination in blood.

it is the charities' job to help these communities obtain such equipment and to give healthcare to those who were affected before said equipment was acquired.

and before you go on about why countries governments dont provide this equipment, you have to consider the fact that they are crippled paying debts by their predessors governments to the likes of rich countries like britain the USA Germany France etc.

Bard

Myself and the missus gave 50 quid between us to a collection that was taken up in the pub/hotel we spent New Year's Eve in. I only hope it really helps.

mycroft

Uthur wrote:

Apparantly more than 50% of money collected by a typical charity ends up going into administration and advertising etc. In chronic cases this has been known to rise to 90% - and that's for the honest charities! I'm not saying that governments could do a more efficient job (they probably couldn't) but at least it would remove the advertising costs (which are massive for tv).

Bollocks, Oxfams administration costs runs to 20% Meaning 80% of what you donate will go to the Asian appeal and the other 20% will go to ensure that Oxfam has the staff to administrate that money.

Also charities rarly run peak time ads and are charged at a discount than other commerical advertisments