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Why use a MAC for musicmaking??
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20-12-2004 11:50am#1
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PC might be cheaper, but that's about as far as it goes. Reasons?
1. On board audio - Macs have always had it and it's always been damn good. With the variety of inexpensive external USB and Firewire in-out boxes now available it's even better, but the internal A-D converters are still great quality. Also something like an eMac has pretty decent built-in speakers (not that loud but OK for listening to a playback). I use an eMac with an M-audio USB box and a couple of AKG D770 mics for the odd live recording thing, straight to stereo using the free bundled SoundStudio app and the results are great. I can also fit the whole lot into the front seat of the car and have it set up ready to record in about two minutes, including starting up the Mac
2. Ease of use - OSX is simple and pretty idiot proof.
3. Bundled apps - as mentioned above, GarageBand is free with all Macs and is not bad for simple recordings. I got a limited (in number of tracks and features, but still highly useable) copies of Live 3 and Reason bundled with the M-audio box.
3. Security - simply put, you can use OSX and forget about viruses, worms, trojans etc. They may exist for X but you'll be very very unlucky to get hit by one. Windies machine OTOH will need perpetual patching and antivirus updates, which if your mate is not a techie, he won't be very adept or happy about doing.
Other general advice. Buy as much RAM as possible with whichever puter he decides to get. Music progs love RAM and eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner. 512MB or 1GB is about right. Also biggest feasible HD - even a 40 or 80GB disk fills up quick with multitrack audio.0 -
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oh yeah and, the latency on built in audio is about 1/4 what onboard PC's will have.
Oh also you could get him to check out the protools mac for sale in the for sale section ... deffo worth while if he's halfway serious here the digi 001 goes for 400 + on ebay alone, he gets the mac + plugins + monitor + fully licenced industry standard software ...0 -
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One other great advantage is that mac (well mine does anyway) ignores all copy protection. I have yet to find a pseudo-cd that doesn't work in my powerbook.eth0_ wrote:
If that is not a reason to use a Mac, I just don't know
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How much of an issue is upgradability? Really? CPU sockets change all the time, so once you want to upgrade you'll need a new motherboard. What's left... RAM? graphics card? audio interface? hard drives? upgradable on both platforms. Don't get me wrong, it's important alright, but it's a lot less important than some people think imho. The price you pay for it is possible incompatibility between components... which undoubtedly comes in the form of horrible glitches at crucial points in the production process
I think the benefits of OS X outweigh the upgradability issue anyway. Here's another link to go with etho_'s: http://developer.apple.com/audio/coreaudio.html. CoreAudio is better than DirectX. OS X is better than Windows :P. Go Mac. 0 -
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Come on, a glitch can appear at any time. It was just a joke anyway. Apples arent immune but from my experience OS X is a fair bit more solid. I can probably dig up some stats to back that point up if you'd like. Apple machines are definately more solid than PCs on average, if only for the fact that you can build a really crappy machine if you get the wrong stuff.
I don't want to start a "my OS is best" war (though i own more PCs than macs), otherwise I would argue os X's superiority a little more 0 -
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RicardoSmith wrote:Personally the low tech advantages that Apples used to have for creatives, has been diminished with OS X which is a lot more complex than OS 7,8 or 9.
But they still over a different user experience. Which some prefer. Try before you buy. OS X looks better for sure. For that alone gets some brownie points.
Is this a statement of fact or a matter of opinion? OSX is NOT more complex than OS7, 8 or 9, it's different, and in many ways a damn sight easier. I remember the fun and games I had getting MIDI gear to work with OS9, installing Opcode extensions all over the place and going through millions of setup screens, just to get a USB keyboard to trigger QuickTime sounds and talk to an external sound module. All this is detected and set up virtually automatically in X.
OSX looks better - gee thanks. We kind of knew that already
The point I made about an OSX box not needing A/V patches and security plugs every week still stands. If OP's mate wants to use his machine for general internet stuff and he's not techie, he'll just LOVE keeping his Windies box updated and worm/spyware/malware-free won't he?0 -
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RicardoSmith wrote:Asking for an opinion in a Mac forum is only going to give you one answer anyway. What did you expect?
*/ Puts hand up */
Please sir ! Me sir, me me me !!!!
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Feature count and creep is very Microsoft. Amused to see it used here.
SP2 is not a replacement for a security policy and quality AV solution. People should be aware of the issues. Its like having a internet usage policy for your kids. You should be aware of the issues. If you choose to be ignorant, thats you're lookout.
I've worked in IT for 10 years, I worked in companies where we had thousands of PC's. Maybe 10 or so Mac's. About 95% of the people I know use PC's. I know people with Mac's because I have one, and I come from a design background having worked in it for years. Saying all those thousands of PC's and the systems that run on them don't work fine is just absurd. Theres no credibility in that line of argument with any IT Professional.
I'm more likely to have a user ask me where is the doc gone that the've been working on for month without saving is gone, after a power outage. Than have a problem that is OS specific. Same with home users. The differences in hardware are invisible to most users once they've become familar with a system.
As you say theres lots of reason for choosing a PC over a Mac. But actually cost isn't one of them. Theres been lots of report illustrating that the cost of a Mac systems, even the G5 iMac is lower than an equivilent PC. So people are choosing on other criteria. Personally I think that most Mac people don't realise that the main issues are things you've mentioned like the cost of replacing software, compatibility with entrenched systems, familiarity with what they know, retraining users et. Most people will buy what everyone else or what they have at work. They don't want something they see as different.
The niche market is 1.8% of people who choose Macs. You'll find most PC users have no empathy for the PC. They see it as a machine. Whereas most Mac users are fanaticial about their Mac's. They tend to be a certain type of user. Either use Macs in college or work, are creative people who want to be different, people who just like the Apple experience and style. Apple is a as much about style and elegance than it is about computing. People who buy expensive household appliances like a Dualit Toaster for 200 quid. Or a Stark orange Juicer are more like to have a Mac than a PC. They tend to be the creative types.0 -
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RicardoSmith wrote:There isn't any technical reason. There may have been 5 years ago but not now. Like I said its about the computing experience and style. Its a subjective opinion. If you are someone who has no contact with windows computers and doesn't want to know squat about computers, then maybe the Mac is a good choice. But you will end up having to learn something about computers regardless. Its like want to be able to drive a car, but not learn to drive or know anything about mechanics. It just can't be done. You have to maintain it by at least putting in fuel and getting it serviced.
Did we fall out earlier? You talk an awful lot of sense, I wasn't having a go
OP's mate being a muso and all, he may just find the experience and style arguments convincing. We musos are shallow creatures and tend to go for that sort of thing. You do need to do some maintenance with OSX (permissions repairs etc) but I stand by my AV argument - I've used Macs for well over ten years professionally, including a large-ish network on broadband, and never EVER been brought down by a virus. I understand that it's advisable to exercise some caution in not transferring PC viruses via email, and that AV is generally good practice, but I don't use it on my home system because I don't need the hassle.
One last argument. An eMac, fully loaded with max RAM and big drive, will leave OP's mate a hell of a lot more desk space for his audio peripherals than anything else on the planet The built-in speakers are great for doing radio-style mixes (should save on the cost of a pair of those weenie things - Auratones?) 0 -
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Yeah yeah, OS X is bloated It's possibly it's worst problem. It does have enough redeeming qualities, IMHO. I maintain that it's ahead of the curve.
As far as security, SP2 is better than nothing. The biggest factor for me is the firewall being enabled all the time. People should be aware of the issues but they're generally not. Most people know they need a virus scanner these days, but thats about it. What you're talking about is corporate networks. This is about a guy making music.
I don't work in computers. In my spare time I look after a few small windows networks in the area. I don't have any software trouble with them, generally. I also help out the people I know with computer trouble as any decent geek would. There's a high percentage of macs around here - I guess cos there's a lot of artists. I know this is all circumstantial evidence, I just want to show you where I'm coming from. The problems I get from pc users are typically "i can't connect to the internet" or "the internet isn't working right", of course 90% of the time it's a spyware and virus infestation. Other times it's a blue screen on boot after installing something dodgy. The problems I get from mac users are more varied... "iTunes is stuck", "I can't turn off my computer", "safari won't open". There isn't any real technical reason for this, people using windows seem to be more likely to download crap because there's more windows crap out there. It is security through obscurity. OS X hasn't been tested in a similar environment so it's anyone's guess as to how it would perform.
Cost can be a factor for some people, even if it shouldn't be. For example, the G5 iMac is good value for what you get, but it doesn't compare to the 'bargain' of a €600 dell. People do get what everyone else has though. In the ~15 people I help out with macs, many went with apple because of their excellent laptop hardware, many others chose macs because they used them before or knew people who had them. The tend to turn into fanatics. No idea why None of them buy ultra expensive household appliances though.
I agree that there's no single big reason for musicians to use a Mac. The little reasons I mentioned (CoreAudio etc.) have only small benefits to end users at the moment and are no more significant than the rest of the computing experience.0 -
Acous wrote:The problems I get from pc users are typically "i can't connect to the internet" or "the internet isn't working right", of course 90% of the time it's a spyware and virus infestation. Other times it's a blue screen on boot after installing something dodgy. The problems I get from mac users are more varied... "iTunes is stuck", "I can't turn off my computer", "safari won't open". There isn't any real technical reason for this, people using windows seem to be more likely to download crap because there's more windows crap out there. It is security through obscurity. OS X hasn't been tested in a similar environment so it's anyone's guess as to how it would perform.
Just to introduce an unwelcome note of snobbery;) I read somewhere that the typical Mac buyer's social alignment was on a par with those who drive Saabs, i.e. a bit better off than average, and educated. Does that tie in with your experience? Must admit, the only Maccies I know who I'd define as "working class" (whatever that is) are those who've discovered the benefits through practical work experience, rather than those who've made a style choice. Same goes for me. I was computer-illiterate before being forced into using a Mac in the print business, and had I had to use a PC at that time (ca System 7 / DOS / early attempts at Windies), I probably would have changed career and stayed illiterate 0 -
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Kingsize wrote:i have an old g3 blue mac which was kindly donated to me by a mate ( with reason installed )which got me seriously into makin music on the computer i do love macs although i think its easier to get up & running on a pc especially if you are on a budget.you can now buy a half decent pc for about 400 squid & if you look in the right places get top notch software /& upgrade bits for about the same price which is still cheaper than a mac.
if your mate is anyway serious he probably should not use his music pc for the internet, or at least use a dual boot system to minimise any possible "viral" damage.I currently do most of my stuff on the pc which can sometimes be a pain but i would never have been able to get to this stage on my old mac...& could not afford a top notch mac
Best post so far!!! Nice n simple! like meself! yuck yuck!!
He's not usin the machine for internet at all as he doesn't have a landline installed even so looks like my PC know how will be used to build a damn good system andplenty of software to be bought methinks!0 -
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