pci or agp?

Fanny Cradock

quick question - how do u determine what whether ur computer will take a pci or agp graphics card?

bizmark

Agp slots are brown and longer + are closer to the cpu Pci are white and shorter

should also say so in your motherboard manule

Fanny Cradock

bought the thing secondhand so i dont have a manual.
is it anything to do with make, specifications or age? or is the only way to know by opening it?

nice 1

bizmark

Just open up the case and have a look the agp slot is unmistakeable tbh how old is the mb?

radiospan

You'll probably have one AGP slot, with 5 or 6 PCI slots below it, depending on the PC.

Fanny Cradock

i had a look at some of the same models (i think - its the same name anyway - different processor speeds) but i didnt have a clue as to what they were on about - i did notice that it said direct agp for motherboard, but somebody told me that it was a pci connection
could u help?
http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-Dell_Optiplex_GX110_GX110

i know what i have is an - intel(r)82810E Graphics Controller is this agp or pci?

Fanny Cradock

i'll open it up now

Bass.exe

Your "Intel Graphics blablabla" piece of crap is neither. It's a chip on the mobo which acts in place of an expansion card.

AGP, as had been said, is longer than a PCI slot, and usually a different colour... often brown. PCI is usually that ubiquitous beige colour..... sometimes you'll get an orange PCI slot too...

HungryJoey

Bass.exe wrote:

Your "Intel Graphics blablabla" piece of crap is neither. It's a chip on the mobo which acts in place of an expansion card.

AGP, as had been said, is longer than a PCI slot, and usually a different colour... often brown. PCI is usually that ubiquitous beige colour..... sometimes you'll get an orange PCI slot too...

An orange PCI Slot is on some newer MSI Boards. It indicates and is a special slot for Communications...

Bass.exe

Not just on MSI boards... although now that I think about it, I recall seeing it in Red as well.... and Purple on a Lan Party board.

Anyway, this is off-topic...

Any luck Cradock?

Fanny Cradock

well that was a disaster - nearly. the on button popped out and i couldnt find the ****er for ages.

anyways no sign of a brown port there were 3 creamy white coloures ones. my modem was jammed into one of em.
any clues?

Bass.exe

Ok. That'll be the PCI slots. There was no port that was longer than the PCI slots? Then you are sans-AGP, I'm afraid. (If there was one, it would have been reasonably apparant... as it is in-line with the PCI slots)

Thordon

Yep, that must have been them then if a modem was in one, the AGP one should have been parallell to it, just a different shape, and moved up a bit, how old is your PC?

HungryJoey

Fanny Cradock wrote:

well that was a disaster - nearly. the on button popped out and i couldnt find the ****er for ages.

anyways no sign of a brown port there were 3 creamy white coloures ones. my modem was jammed into one of em.
any clues?

Well if ure modem is plugged into one of those slots and all them 3 slots are the smae then u just have 3 PCI Slots which is almost useless for GFX Cards but its not like ure using a killer sysetm anyway...Ure CPU Is slow enough so PCI Should work of for ya but don't expect much.

Bass.exe

Hehe, Wow. Komplett has TWO, count 'em, TWO PCI cards. Here's the only one they have in stock

bizmark

what do you want the pc to do anyway ? you dont need a apg g-card for web surfing etc and with those specs you wont be playing modren games

Bass.exe

Yes, but with the "Intel Integrated Graphics Controller"™ he won't be playing old games either.

Fanny Cradock

thanks hungry joe (and everyone else )
damn complicated thing this computer business
i know that my system is to say the least limited, but anythings better than what i have right now!
from what everyone says it looks like its a pci port which up untill about three days ago had no idea of its existance.
anyways, like i said a couple of posts back heres my computer - [URL=http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-Dell_Optiplex_GX110_GX110 ]optiplex gx110[/URL] with at least 1 difference i.e. mine is a p 3 750mhz. what concerns me at is where it says that the Video Output Interface is Direct AGP.
does that mean its agp then?

Bass.exe

That would seem to imply that it has an AGP slot... but as you just opened your machine and found NO AGP slot, then I would say... you have no AGP slot.

Fanny Cradock

actually about the only games i can get running are championship manager 1998 and dune from **** knows when!
wooh :rolleyes:

btw didnt the dimebag fella get shot and murdered on stage???

Bass.exe

Yep, that's what happened to Dimebag *sniff*.

If you get a reasonable PCI graphics card... you MAY, i repeat, MAY be able to get some games running

Fanny Cradock

good point!
oh to hell with it, i'll go mental and blow €50. i mean at worst its a 50:50 chance but the odds are increased thanks to ur superior knowledge.

nice 1 bass.exe

Fanny Cradock

what a way to go though! better than the standard vomit death thing i guess.

anyway the only game i really want to get going is enemry territory, which if im to believe what folks say should be possible even with one of the cheaper pci cards.
im just hoping they're right

Bass.exe

Way hey! Someone says I have superior knowledge!!

Where did you get 50:50 from?
You definetly have PCI slots... all PCs do.
And It'll improve your games' performances... the question is, By how much?
Good luck

Fanny Cradock

that is the quesation indeed

an as for ur superior knowledge well u just displayed it again. i thought there was only either 1 or the other.
oh well

thanks for all the help!!!




__________________________________end transmission_________________________

jessy

Bass.exe wrote:

You definetly have PCI slots... all PCs do.

Not Exactly True, The New Dell SX280's don’t have any expansion slots. Although I don’t think dells count as real computer’s only joking, (but not really).

duridian

Fanny Cradock wrote:

what concerns me at is where it says that the Video Output Interface is Direct AGP.
does that mean its agp then?

Bass.exe wrote:

That would seem to imply that it has an AGP slot... but as you just opened your machine and found NO AGP slot, then I would say... you have no AGP slot.

The current graphics in your Dell are AGP, but they are really poor integrated AGP graphics targeted at business pc use not at gamers. It is possible to have an AGP bus in the computer without having an AGP slot. Since the integrated graphics are as the name implies part of the motherboard they do not require the AGP slot to work because all the connections required between the graphics chipset and the rest of the pc are permanently soldered in the motherboard. AGP slots on the other hand are a way of connecting graphics chipsets that are on daughter boards(which we usually call graphic cards) which we can plug into the motherboard or plug out again if we want to change the graphics. ie. non permanent. The agp bus in a computer is dedicated to one thing only - the graphics. Graphics cards can also be connected to the pci bus (as long as they are a pci graphics card) through the pci slots, in the case of your Dell Optiplex this is the only way you can change the graphics. However because the pci bus is slower than the agp bus and also because there may be other devices sharing the pci bus along with it (such as you modem), performance will not be as good as if you had a similar card in an agp slot.
For example an ATI Radeon 9200 AGP card will be faster than an ATI Radeon 9200 PCI card, not because of the chips on the cards themselves but because of the method by which they are connected to the computer. However a ATI Radeon 9200 PCI card for example will outperform the Intel AGP graphics in your Optiplex. This is because the Radeon 9200 PCI despite being somewhat hindered by its connection method has a much more powerful chipset, whereas the Intel graphics despite their faster connection cannot process graphic information as quickly and therefore cannot take the advantage.
PCI graphics are not to be confused with PCI-Express graphics which you may hear of nowadays. PCI-Express is an even newer and faster technology(although current graphics technology can't take full advantage of this yet, it will be the standard in the years ahead) and only the most recent pcs would be equipped with this.
I hope this has cleared up some points for you .

Fanny Cradock

wow, that was really comprehensive stuff. thanks for putting the time into typing that.

one question does arise though-

of the two types of pci card im thinking of getting, one is a plain old PCI where as the other is a PCI EXPRESS x 16. does this mean that the second one is the better of the 2?

btw i guessing coz express is newer technology than agp (which my comp cant take) any benifits from the express card would be lost on my crappy machine. am i right?

duridian

The PCI-Express card will not work in your Dell Optiplex full stop! Do not make the mistake of purchasing a PCI-Express card, it will be of no use to you.
Only very recent computers (less than 4 to 5 months old) would possibly have PCI-Express slots, and not that many of those have it either. AGP slots are still the most common. It is a PCI graphics card you need, if you hear any mention of Express then you know it is not for you.
Here's a few examples of suitable cards for your system:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/9200_Series.html
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/FX_5200_Series.html
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_MX_Series.html
http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10415

PCI graphics cards are becoming scarcer and the choice more limited. They will probably shortly be completely unavailable (maybe within a year). Any of the graphics cards linked above would be a big improvement on the built-in graphics of your Dell even though they are by today's standard themselves very basic graphic cards.

Fanny Cradock

thanks duridian,
saved me wasting cash on the express card!
just ordered the one from komplett so im looking forward to lightning fast graphics on my uber powerful machine!

duridian

I'd recommend that in the meantime you check out the manual of your Dell for any relevant info on changing the graphics. Some computers will automatically switch off the integrated graphics if another graphics card is detected in the expansion slots. Others will require you to change a jumper or a dip switch on the mainboard to disable the integrated graphics. I've a suspicion that the Optiplex doesn't need a jumper change but cannot be certain.
It seems there are several different case designs in the GX110 modelsHere is Dell's start page for online documents about the GX110 . You will first have to select which type of processor (slotted processor is about 4-5 inches long and stands 'upright' relative to the mainboard between 2 'posts' whereas the socket type is about 2 inch square laying flat relative to the mainboard with heatsink on top). They are quite easy to tell apart. You will then have to determine which of the 3 or 4 chassis types your system has. Dell's site gives a fairly good bit of info on what's inside your case and should help you get more familiar with the various bits and bobs. Let us know how you got on.

Fanny Cradock

and here was i thinking u could just slot the thing in and that was that.
if the christmas post isnt to slow hopefully it should arrive in the next few days!
anyway must get back to studing. got a computer applications exam tomorrow, which considering my total lack of computer knowledge is kinda worrying :eek:

anyways, ill get back to u if there's any problems - that is if u dont mind?

have a good christmas!

duridian

Ask away, if I'm on I'll try and answer. Happy Xmas to you too. You might be playing Wolfenstein by then

Fanny Cradock

well ive been looking at the manual and im almost sure that i have a Low-Profile Chassis PCI Riser Board. it doesnt say anything about jumper or dip switches so i guess im in the clear!! waaaay!

That said, there was something worrying in the manual though :eek:!!!!
in the same place were it gives the chassis descriptions it says,

"Each OptiPlex GX110 chassis can accommodate 32-bit Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) expansion cards and 16-bit and 8-bit Industry-Standard Architecture (ISA) expansion cards, depending on the installed riser board. See Figure 1 for examples of the expansion cards."

so from what i gather it can accomodate 32 16 or 8, but mine is a 128 bit card!
is this bad news???

Fanny Cradock

Fanny Cradock wrote:

well ive been looking at the manual and im almost sure that i have a Low-Profile Chassis PCI Riser Board. it doesnt say anything about jumper or dip switches so i guess im in the clear!! waaaay!

That said, there was something worrying in the manual though :eek:!!!!
in the same place were it gives the chassis descriptions it says,

"Each OptiPlex GX110 chassis can accommodate 32-bit Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) expansion cards and 16-bit and 8-bit Industry-Standard Architecture (ISA) expansion cards, depending on the installed riser board. See Figure 1 for examples of the expansion cards."

so from what i gather it can accomodate 32 16 or 8, but mine is a 128 bit card!
is this bad news???

can anyone answer this 4 me?

duridian

Don't panic, the 128bit only refers to what's going on inside the graphics card itself and not how it interfaces with the rest of the computer. It's only a 32bit at the slot connector I gather you are now familiar with the quick release lever thingy thats used for removing the riser card in these type of pcs. Once you can take that in and out there ain't much more to it, just remove a blanking plate, insert graphics card in one of the pci slots alongside the modem, secure the graphics card with a screw and pop the whole riser/cards thing back into the case.

Lydesia

You have a dell Prob demension 2350.

yes i had the same Problem, dell dont want you to expand your system.
They want you to buy a new Dell. So you can get a PCI graphics card, but most of them suck. Get a new MB is the only way

RicardoSmith

You can get just over 7K in 3D Mark 2001 (which is ok) on a Radeon 9250 128bit PCI card. Theres more discussion about it here.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17336887

test999

run Levaleys(sp?) "Everest" on your machine it'll tell you what it is