Lexus IS200 - opinions solicited

ambro25

Right-y-o. Looking to go respectable (& fully-legit) in this beautiful green land-o-yours, and am thinking of treating my burgeoning family ( ) to a Lexus IS200. Scoob & MX5 will now either be part-exed up North or down here (or even put up on "Cars FS" here come first week of Jan'05, but they're on Brit plates).

Thing is, I don't know much about IS200s other than what I've read/Googl'd since I've set my heart on the thing. So, in case any of the enlightened regular posters have/had driven/owned one:

_is there a model and/or year to be preferred, excepting "sporty" Beams ones, whatever that "Beams" stuff is (as I'm done with "sporty" (Scoob/MX5), now I want "comfy sport")?

_any particular things to look out for (other than the usual suspects, e.g. something IS200-specific)?

_what's the auto box like (on understanding that I'd prefer a manual anyway, but then the 'right' one may come as an auto)?

_anything I've missed?

Very much appreciate your input/feedback, if any.

unkel

Very reliable, high quality alternative to small Mercedes / BMW, but it comes nowhere near the status/style of the Mercedes or the driving qualities of the BMW


Bit boring tbh. Usually driven by people without a passion for cars, so not for you

unkel

Honestjohn finds everything hunkydory, except:

What's Bad
Needs to be revved to perform, otherwise doesn't feel powerful enough. Auto can be sluggish at times. Complaints of alloy wheels suffering from pitting as a result of salt on UK roads

Also expensive second hand

puntosporting

A pretty mundane car after owning an mx5 for pure driving pleasure!
But they will prove ultra reliable just like the mazda!
Personaly id buy the lexus is200 over a 320 bmw or merc whatever c something!
I do like the way they look and i reckon you will have better reliability than that of the merc and bmw.

lanno

have a 00 IS Sport and have had no problems nice for long journeys &
everthing is electric. Look for one w full service history. Only problem
was error on the cd but that was changed under warrantry.

Squirrel

go for an IS300 if you can afford it. more of a status symbol

Interceptor

The car in front is a.... oh wait, its not...uh-oh its a Lexus. In a slight-of-hand move that would make David Blane blink, Toyota slotted its mid-size Japanese-market performance saloon into the EU market as a Lexus and everyone went oooh. I haven't driven the IS300 but I've driven several IS200's and they are all gutless and disappointing to drive. The manual is tedious and needs to be constantly stirred to make progress, the auto is lame and unresponsive. The quality of finish is good and the seats/ergonomics acceptable but not life-enhancing. The 16" standard wheels look awful, the 17" sport wheels suffer as mentioned but look yum. The handling is on a par with a Mazda 6 or Honda Accord - its not as sharp as the people at Lexus would like you to believe.

All this aside I have never heard of one breaking down and I haven't seen one in a breakers yard (recently saw 2 Pug 406coupes!).

On balance I would recommend that you look elsewhere - the IS is long overdue an overhaul and depite medium-term residuals being good, long term and with high mileage you will lose more money as compared with the Accord or Mazda. On comparison with the 3-series, which is mechanically similar the Lexus falls down on power, handling, equipment levels, space and comfort. The BMW isn't as well screwed together though and the quality of plastics/trim on the current range is awful - that tan leather trim is bile inducing.

Oh my God is that the time.... I'm off.

'c

Today I are mostly driving a Nissan Primastar. Yeugh.

impr0v

I haven't driven one of them and don't particularly know much about them. I do remember reading some review where some trouser-suited career woman was reviewing it and similar small exec motors. Her conclusion in relation to the IS200 was that she couldn't help feeling like a 40 year old man when driving it, and that's the impression i have of it too. It's for fairly wealthy executives who need to express their wealth, without necessarily having the style to do so!

Interceptor

I was thinking about this on the way home last night and trying to figure if I had been fair to what is on balance a very good car. I was well impressed the first time I saw one and thought the Sport version quite tasty but pricey. I have chewed it over and can't find anything to change my mind. A titanium gearknob and some sparkly clocks won't cut it anymore and the car hasn't been updated to keep it current with its competition. I haven't anything to back it up but I suspect the cost of ownership will be noticeably higher than others in its class.

The round rear lights which are its signature and spawned a million aftermarket light designs are old-hat compared to even the current Mondeo/Avensis designs (chicken-egg?).

Ambro25, drive one of them and see if it fits the bill - if you always wanted one and it makes you happy then what I say won't matter, but sometimes when you meet your heroes you can be disappointed.

'ceptr

ambro25

Thank you all so very much for the input.

TBH, I'm not particularly bothered about the whole "tarted-up Toyota" image thing, or associations/connotations with "40-year old wealthy execs" & the like... I'm too young for people to mistake me as such . Those are totally subjective opinions, which I can live with as, when and if encountered (especially if the guy who profers those drives a Passat or a Mondeo ).

Insofar as BMWs & Mercs are concerned, I'd be of the opinion that the above (save for the Toyot' thing) are just as true for those (aspirational etc.). Particularly if you're only talking about 3-series and C-classes (which, on my purchase budget, I would be ).

The things that attracts me the most with the Lexus are the reliability & the comfort: I want somthing big enough for my family for the next 3-4 years, without falling into the excesses of SUVs and people carriers (expect maybe the scenic, but I absolutely despise Renaults, so there).

I've done the uncomfortable sporty times enough (XR2i, Delta Integrale, 200SX Turbo, Hyundai Coupe (that was an accident in my car ownership trail, sorry! ), MX5 1.8, Scooby), now it's time to grow up, so-to-speak.

So the 0-60 is not particularly relevant (I do hear you unkel , re. the transition from MX-5. But different cars, different purposes...), but I'm not looking to race it at red lights or at Mondello. So long as I can get out of trouble with dropping a gear or two...

Interceptor - I will test-drive indeed, thanks. It's not a car (or a brand) I've "always wanted", just what car I think fits the bill best for our current needs. There's only one car I've always wanted and may someday be lucky enough to afford: a TVR (that in replacement of the one car which I've wanted from age 1 but now realised I'll probably never own: an original 427 Cobra) .

unkel

ambro25 wrote:

The things that attracts me the most with the Lexus are the reliability & the comfort: I want somthing big enough for my family for the next 3-4 years

Well in that case you can't really go wrong. The Lexus is probably one of the most reliable cars you can get

Try and get one with loads of goodies

Did you consider getting a GS300 instead?

Interceptor

Or a late 90's Honda Legend 3.2 V6?! Very comfy, more gadgets than you could ever need, ultra reliable and cheap as chips to buy. Number 14 on my list, just after the A8...

'ceptr

Squirrel

I know it might sound stupid but have you ever considered a Hyundai Sonata, its huge, has the overall look of a jag and its cheap too. Get one in Celadon Green and you wont go wrong

ambro25

unkel wrote:

Did you consider getting a GS300 instead?

Neighbour of my mother-in-law in UK has two: a '97 he bought three years ago and a '00 he bought last year. He's single, but he didn't want to part with the first one... that tells me something .

Still, 'bit too big and I don't expect the handling to be as sharp as the IS200 - but then I haven't driven either yet, so feel free to ignore.

Interceptor wrote:

Number 14 on my list, just after the A8...

Accord? I don't think Jap cars come any blander than that. What an ugly thing that car is - personal opinion, though, and still not as ugly as the Multibleuark. Plus, straight six over V6 any day.

Interceptor

Squirrel wrote:

I know it might sound stupid but have you ever considered a Hyundai Sonata, its huge, has the overall look of a jag and its cheap too. Get one in Celadon Green and you wont go wrong

...and they are made from the bits that Kia throw out, so they have to be good. Or get a Daewoo Lacetti - it has the overall look of a ponces toilet-bag and the handling of a kids trike. And it sounds like an ice-cream so it can't be all bad...

'c

ambro25

Interceptor wrote:

...and they are made from the bits that Kia throw out, so they have to be good. Or get a Daewoo Lacetti - it has the overall look of a ponces toilet-bag and the handling of a kids trike. And it sounds like an ice-cream so it can't be all bad...

LOL!

I said I was looking to go respectable, not cheap . Correct my earlier posting: some cars do come in blander than an Accord, for instance Sonatas

magpie

Ryan Tubridy drives a Lexus. Make of that what you will.

ambro25

Who is he? And what should I care? The Pope drives a Popemobile, too.

magpie

Alan Partridge drives one too. "It's known as the Japanese Mercedes you know...".

Interceptor

ambro25 wrote:

LOL!

I said I was looking to go respectable, not cheap . Correct my earlier posting: some cars do come in blander than an Accord, for instance Sonatas

Not Accord - Legend. Electric everything and no pretentious image. Its been redesigned for next year but thats another thread.

'c

ambro25

Accord/Legend - my mistake (still ugly, though ).

I don't want to wait for next year + never buy new anyway, I let company car buyers or snobs suffer the worst depreciation .

Alan Partridge / Tub-what-his-name / Jap Merc - see earlier posts, such comments are pretty redundant and take up "posting room" unnecessarily... Why should I consider a Merc, which might not be as reliable, looks older, will cost me 2 x as much to run with not even half the equipment? To say "I drive a Merc"? Big f***ing deal :rolleyes:

unkel

The Honda Legend is a great car, albeit a good size bigger than what you are looking for

Its size matches that of my BMW 735iA V8, although its performance doesn't. Very few of them around in Ireland and second hand prices are just silly

Fair play to Honda though for not playing the Toyota marketing game of setting up a new brand

Interceptor

unkel wrote:

Fair play to Honda though for not playing the Toyota marketing game of setting up a new brand

No, and they'd have to call it something silly like Acura...

I suppose they would only sell a handful so there wasn't any point introducing the brand to Europe. In the States where the Honda Civic was always a 'budget buy' and they needed to battle Toyota for supremacy over the Camry, they came up with the luxury Acura brand for the higher end models. Then Nissan came up with Infiniti, which was originally just rebadged Maximas and has also grown to US-only models like the FX and the new QX whale-sized SUV.

I'd still love a Legend though - nearly bought one a while back but bought Accord instead.

'c

magpie

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/partridge/life/iap_new/epguide3.shtml

unkel

Interceptor wrote:

No, and they'd have to call it something silly like Acura...

Only in America

I guess it would have been commercial suicide for Nissan and Honda not to go the "me to" route over there after the enormous succes of Toyota with Lexus on high margin cars...

A lot of Americans think the ultimate in style and quality comes from Japan. Us Europeans tend to disagree

Cionn

IS 200 is a lovely car but the driver doesn't get a chance to enjoy it as he is always busy changing gears. I had one for a week last year I was happy to give it back pain in the ar#e driving after a while. You get fed up changing gear all the time, and if you've got kids there isn't that much room in the back . Try putting a baby seat in the back before you buy. On the plus side great build quality and feel.

unkel

Cionn wrote:

if you've got kids there isn't that much room in the back . Try putting a baby seat in the back before you buy

Good point, always try for size first

Couldn't get the baby seat in my previous car, a BMW 530iA V8. Not that there wasn't enough space, but the seatbelt was too short!

Squirrel

ambro25 wrote:

I said I was looking to go respectable, not cheap . Correct my earlier posting: some cars do come in blander than an Accord, for instance Sonatas

You asked for help and all i offered was advice and you had to offend the car i have. For less than 30 grand i got a car with just as much kit, maybe more than the lexus. Have you even seen the sonata by the way. Since you want respectable, buy the lexus and think about this every time you drive I'm driving a toyota that cost me more than 40 grand I can see that being respectable

ambro25

Squirrel wrote:

You asked for help and all i offered was advice and you had to offend the car i have.

Just some play-wording... lighten up

If only you'd searched my earlier postings in 'Motors' (no reason why you would, but still...) you'd have noticed that I have owned a Hyundai and I consider it still one of the best cars I've ever had, in terms of value for money - and I've had few.

On a lighter note, I asked for help about a Lexus IS200, not alternatives (the only alternatives I'd consider are a newer Impreza or Legacy).

Squirrel wrote:

For less than 30 grand i got a car with just as much kit, maybe more than the lexus. Have you even seen the sonata by the way. Since you want respectable, buy the lexus and think about this every time you drive I'm driving a toyota that cost me more than 40 grand I can see that being respectable.

Good for you. Since I want respectable, I'll buy the lexus and think about this every time I'm driving it: I'm driving a Lexus that cost me less than 20 grand and this guy went & spent 40 grand on a Hyundai

PS: I'm not buying the badge (if I wanted that I'd go Beemer or Merc), I'm buying style & reliability because now (after 16 years of motoring) I finally can.

And comments are duly noted in respect of gear stages + baby seats, I'll be certain to pay particular attention, thanks a bunch!

Squirrel

Enjoy the Lexus. Tell me what you think of it

ambro25

Soon as I've managed to clear my schedule (no joke, workload is currently blazing madness :eek:) for a test drive somewhere, I'll update.

Thanks for your good wishes, Squirrel & a Happy New Year to you all on Boards.ie

knifey_spoonie

Squirrel wrote:

I'm driving a toyota that cost me more than 40 grand I can see that being respectable

Remember: Your drivnig a hyundai that cost 30 grand and its not a trajet or a coupe.

So whats your point

Squirrel

Have you seen the Trajet, one of my friends mistook it for a hearse when we went past a parked one. The coupe didnt suit my needs at the time as I have something better, a 93 toyota MR2 G-Limited T-Bar, in black. Just out of curiosity, what do you drive? Also my car happily takes me all around the country for athletics meets. The car suits me perfectly and for a car that size and the amount of kit you would be paying alot more elsewhere. The only car that gets near close is the Kia Magentis which, on the looks front is hideous and uses technology from the previous generation Sonata.

vector

unkel wrote:

...nowhere near the status/style of the Mercedes or the driving qualities of the BMW...

Very well put

ambro25

Style of a Merc? Unless you're talking about the new SL, they all look the same since the 80s, IMHO. Same shape, marginal lifting around the eyes...
It's an acquired taste, just not mine.

So a BMW drives well. So I've been told. I've tried a few over the years, one not so long ago (a '96 520 manual) and wasn't particularly impressed. I enjoyed driving my dad's C5 HDi more this Xmas - for the comfort. Not bothered about Beemers, can't get more of a look-at-me-too car these days...
Resale value holds good & build quality's commendable, though, I'll give them that, but I'm not looking for something to go round Mondello or burn Passats at red lights (leave that to people with shares in bushes & gearbox manufacturers) ( unkel), since I'm gonna become an electric scooter man myself :eek:

twinturbo

If your going to get a lexus try and get an altezza one they are more expensive and quite rare but their is definitley a marked improvement in performance from what i've heard

DukeDredd

twinturbo wrote:

If your going to get a lexus try and get an altezza one they are more expensive and quite rare but their is definitley a marked improvement in performance from what i've heard

Thats only with the Altezza RS200 - more power but only 4 cylinder engine. Pretty much a souped up corolla engine in that one - i'd say it'd be fun to drive though!

ambro25

I thought std engine was straight-six? Or is it a 4 cyl on some models only (e.g. Altezza)?

(Can't be asked to Google it - some apparently knowledgeable people on the Forum )

unkel

Straight 6. That and RWD and fairly good handling and sportyness were deliberaty instilled in the IS200 by the force of Toyota's marketing department to compete with the 3-series

puntosporting

Was at a tunning crowd recently and they had a standard is200 on a dyno pack and it only made 140 bhp at the flywheel,pretty poor i taught i never got its torque reading do!

unkel

puntosporting wrote:

and it only made 140 bhp at the flywheel

That is poor. Standard output is 155 bhp

Dan_B

I owned a Subaru Legacy for two years and cannot speak highly enough of it.
The best car I ever owned bar none.
Sold it to my Father and he drove it for 3 years and says the same thing.
Totally bullett proof, comfortable, plenty of poke and I always liked the idea of driving something a bit different.
Was let down by the interior but newer models have rectified this.
Subaru has constantly been in the top 5 of the JD Power survey in the UK which is compliled from owners experiences not trouser suited women.
Defenitley worth a look IMO.

ambro25

Don't need converting to the fold - I currently also drive an Impreza ('97, 2.0 Sport ed.). Check my earlier posts in this thread and you'll see that if the IS200 (test-drive coming this w/end, yay!) doesn't measure up, then it's back to Mr Scooby

Incidentally, what would I get for my Scoob 2nd-hand around these parts? ('97, green met, 65k, full Magnex s/s exhaust line, nearly new Yokohama tyres all-round, SH, vgc). It's on Brit plates, btw. Thinking of selling that private & part-exing the MX-5 (if they'll take it).

Dan_B

Have a copy of the blue book lying around somewhere but if it's UK reg?
Suppose you could subtract the VRT from the value in the south.
Should give you a ball park figure.

ambro25

Dan_B wrote:

Suppose you could subtract the VRT from the value in the south.

I'd have thought that VRT would be on top of the Blue Book value, not subtracted from. OMSP calculator gives €3381, which seems low to me, as I'd have expected closer to €4,500.

ambro25

Right, my good people. I have test-driven a '00 IS200 on Saturday & am now speaking with some knowledge of the thing...

1/ for a 4-year, 43k miles on the clock, the thing was in a rather sorry state, (rust on metal wiper holders & in places under the bonnet, headlights outer plastic casing 'scuffed', etc.) - unless it was mostly unloved, which is totally possible, this doesn't entice me that much to the alleged build-quality.

2/ thoroughly enjoyed driving the thing, felt responsive in all the right places

3/ I hear the argument about constantly changing gears + the under-powering question... But I think it's down to the gear ratios (it's a 6-speed, so the first five 'bottom out' much earlier than more conventional 2-litres saloon)

4/ The useful room is smaller then my Impreza! :eek: Boot's smaller, legroom in back is smaller as well as the driving position 'abode'.

5/ Absolutely no part-ex on brit plates (even though I'd have been pretty 'generous ' ).

So, after much deliberations... I'll keep driving the MX & the Scoob for another year and they'll both be Irish-reg'd/NCT'd/Tax'd by the end of the week. Thanks to all for the contributions.

Dan_B

I meant if you subtract the vrt you'd have got a value without having paid the duty.

Thanks for the feedback on the IS200, funnily enough I was considering one as my next car, Seen a NI plate 01 200 sport for 10.5K Stg.
May take a look anyway though you have not been kind!!

ambro25

Dan_B wrote:

May take a look anyway though you have not been kind!!

I've tried to be fair. I used to get all emotional about which car and this and that, but it's a sign that I must be growing up when I let my wife do more than half of the test drive and am nit-picking about the car to the n-th degree...

As I wrote, tbh, I think the poor motor had been somewhat neglected (or had spent an inordinate amount near the docks, to account for the corrosion) - and that's down to that particular one, not all of them.

And I did point out that yes, it drove superbly for a mid-sized family saloon - the sound of the straight-6... pure delight and I'd have bought it just for that, were it not for the lack of room.

Do you have kids? Of pram-in-boot + full-on-armchair-on-the-backseat age? When you do, you'll realize what I meant in respect of boot size and legroom...(and that's because I absolutely refuse to drive a 4x4 / SUV / MPV, as a matter of personal taste).

Dan_B

No small people so buggie / pram not a problem.
In fact a single seater with enough room for a set of golf clubs
would fit my needs!

Was thinking of 318Ci but have been put off by stories of it being underpowered and fuel gauge's going down when you open the door :eek:

Cheers.

ambro25

Golf clubs? Forget it... No Sh1t, the very dealer who had it on the forecourt told me Saturday that he used to drive the IS 200 'Chanel' ltd edition, but got rid of it soon after as the boot couldn't comfortbaly accomodate his golf set (I mean, the boot is small for car of that size). Sorry for you...

1 seater with golf bag, mmm...let me think... Honda S2K ragtop? Boot's decent (possibly bigger than IS200 ).
Or an Impreza, boot's quite large for the size (mine takes the [big] 3-wheeler pram, two fairly good-sized week-end bags and two rucksacks, with some spaces left here and there).
Or a Legacy (a sporty twin-turbs one ), boot's positively cavernous, you'd fit a coffin lengthways in there...