Wannabe Dealers

careca

It struck me last night that there are way too many 'wannabe dealers' playing cards in the Fitz. Now I know people are trying to be helpful and I'm sure I've pointed things out myself which have been wrong but I think its getting out of hand.

There was one hand last night with a few side pots involved and as Dave was working out the amounts there were at least three people shouting "Put x amount in the side pot" and "take x amount from each player" and so on. It just seemed to make it harder for Dave. Then you have players telling new players they don't get this hand or calling for cards to be turned over when there is still betting.

As I said I'm all for informing the dealer if he/she does make a mistake but sometimes it goes to far. Would like to hear any of the dealers views ?

dirkey_wynne

I'm the same Careca. I'll point something out if I spot something blatantly wrong but try my best not to say anything. The Dealers know what they're doing, and I know from personal experience in other areas it's much harder to work things out correctly if you have a number of people shouting different things at you, all at once. In fact that drives me mad when it happens to me, so I sometimes wonder how the dealers keep their cool.

Hitman Actual

I totally agree, especially with the side-pots... everyone hates a slow game, and so many people calling the pot-size only slows things down even more.

I have to admit, though, I have a habit of always commenting on string-betting... but everyone seems to do this, trying to help out the newbies.

DeVore

Take the pack and the cutting card and offer it to them. Thats what I do when I'm dealing. "hey mate, tell you what, I'll play your stack and you deal. Looks like we'd BOTH do better that way".

Its good to have people watch to be sure there are no **** ups but having 3 people shout at the dealer just flusters them as you say. Often they are wrong anyway and then the dealer gets the blame when the pots are wrong. (as happened one night with Player X).

The thing that bugs me is people who offer to deal for a SNG or freeroll and deal the cards poorly or so clumsily that others can see my cards as they are dealt. Or people who object to a dedicated dealer for the table and then cant count to 9 and deal like grannies.

</rant>

DeV.

biteme

Most dealers just ignore what punters say when it comes to side pots. Some times they can be a little tricky to get right when numbers are a little awkward. For example I dislike 75's. Hence my inability to calculate 75 *3 last night

However it can be quite offputting when people shout out numbers at you when your trying to calculate side pots. Especially because most people do side pots differently.

On a side note I understand why people call it out and make comments in general. I do it when I'm playing. I think side pots are where you should leave it up to the dealer though as it's them that have to get it right. But if you see something that's gone against the rules or the dealer made a mistake you should point it out. Dealers aren't infalable.

That's possibly the most illegiable post I've written. No sleep and programming makes my brain go something something...

Lafortezza

With all the new dealers starting in the fitz in the last few months one thing I've noticed is that there's alot more interfering by the regular players in what goes on at the table.
If Marq or Snowy or whoever is dealing then there's never any ambiguity about who its up to, or whose turn it is to bet etc.

Its very important for the dealer to be in control at the table, and I'd prefer new dealers to be a bit rude and tell interfering punters to stay out of a situation instead of let someone like Player X start saying whats what.

dirkey_wynne

What I found quite amusing was during the cash game a few weeks back with those lads from Northern Ireland, when DeV and player X had an argument over the rules. Now that was quality viewing.

baker1

I was at the table last night and i was one of the "wannabe dealers" that you mention. I feel that i need to defend myself, firstly i realise that being a dealer is a thankless job in general and i have the utmost respect for all dealers. In this case i certainly did not just jump in and render my opinion ad lib. I could see that the dealer in question was having a spot of trouble and as it was taking him some time i suggested a way to calculate the pot. I also realise that dealers are trained to calculate side pots in certain ways. In this case it seemed that the easiest way to do it was 375 *4 which is 1500 and add the small blind 25 to make the main pot 1525 as there was 4 players. As i say i only renenderd my opinion as it seemed as if the dealer was having a hard time doing it. i certainly was not trying to do his job. While we are on the subject of dealer/ player realtionships it seemed to me as if some of the dealers were discussing the play of hands and strategies while working. While i realise that it is important to have a friendly banter anomg players and dealers the lines of profesiolalim should not be comprised. Other than that i think the standard of dealers in the fitz is second to none. Now rant over!

DeVore

Urk? You sound like we were discussing you specifically, Baker1. I think the comment was general rather then specific.

There are two comments I'd make from both player and occasional dealer POV.
1. Not everyone knows the "take the difference and multiple by players-1" trick. Despite that fact that its fast its also confusing for new players who dont understand whats going on. When I started it used to REALLY bug me that a seemingly random pot of chips would be put in front of me and told "you can win that, mate!".

Part of a dealers job is that everyone at the table should be clear about whats going on and not feel like they are just going along with it. So its a good idea for the dealer to go through it slowly starting with the smallest stack etc. That way everyone is clear what has happened and cant argue later.

2. My "argument" with Norman was more mind games then anything else. I was far from sure of what I was saying but the way he just started to spout canon law about what he could and couldnt do in a cash game irked me and I dont like to let him bully the table. Besides, I've absolutely no problem having a row with narky people on a table. Say what you think and stand up for yourself. Besides Player X can be tilted just as much as anyone else, even more so if you out draw him!

I rarely make "mind games" and tilting people part of my game. I think its not something I want to do to win. However if someone wants to *start* on me, well I'm more then happy to accomodate!

DeV.

Marq

Let the dealer sort out side pots. There are numerous ways to sort out side-pots. your way might be wonderful, but that doesn't mean that if the dealer does it a different way you have the right to start interfering with their job. People often say that the dealer was being too slow in organising a side pot (or side-pots), and that is the reason that they interfered. Most likely the reason the dealer is taking his time is because he is listening to three or four different people tell him how to do his job in three or four different ways.

When I started, my standard response was "fúck off". thanfully my brain wouldn't allow me to say this at the table, but i can tell you that it pisses me off something awful when punters interrupt your flow of thought.

I once had a hand in saturday night PLO/HE tourney with six side pots. This was at the 10-25 ante level. some motherfúcker went all in for 30. Knobjockey. idiots at the table were telling me "there's x amount in the main pot" which has absolutely no relevence to the organising of two or more sidepots, as there must be change in the remaining stacks to make the next one. people shouting at you when you are doing your job can be one of the most irrtating and off-putting things at the table, particularly when they are of absolutely no help. Thankfully, I am the side-pot master.

Bottom Line: Leave the dealer to do his job, that's what he's paid to do. If you spot a mistake, by all means point it out, but wait until he's finished doing what he's doing before you mention it, because there's a good chance that he is simply doing things a different way to how you would do them and the result will be the same if you are patient.

baker1

As i have allready said i realise that it is essential that dealers sort out the pot. However in the spefic case taht was mentioned in the orignal post a long amount of time had elapsed and the dealer was no nearer to sorting it out. what coure of action should i take? Call luke over and ask him to sort out a simple sitution?

bohsman

Do what you like go out for a smoke or something, its not your job to organise sidepots

Davey Devil

Sometimes I wonder if there is any patience left in the world. Oscar is right, if you can't help yourself butting in then find a new game. Let the dealers do their jobs.

charlie_says

These wannabe dealers are the bane of my job. Grrrr....

I deal myself and it is really annoying when the players start telling you how to do x and "woah what are you doing" before you have even finished.

If a player has a problem, then he/she should wait untill the dealer has finished what they are doing, and then ask them. Then I would explain clearly to the person what has been done, and if there was any errors they get fleshed out at that point.

The trick is to tell them what you are doing whilst you are doing it in a loud clear voice (I'm usually *always* loud at the table when I first start dealing with everything as to acertain my control of the game) so all the players can hear you, and stay in control of the proceedings. Sometimes this is very difficult if you are being distracted, so what I usually do in those situations is to just try to ignore the bowsers and get on with it.

With the side pots, I was taught to label each pot by number by putting all the chips in that pot stacked up execpt for one which you leave by itself next to the stack, and two for the second side pot and three for the third etc etc. Then move the pot in front of the player who is in that pot and not in the later side pots (pot two or three etc). This works out well - for when you implode the hand at showdown you simply go from the highest number in the labeled sidepots and work backwards.

Be polite to dealers whenever you can. We hardly ever get any apprication for good dealing, just the mistakes get mentioned.

Frankygolucky

give Me a job

amp

I find ignoring the hell out of people, works. If it doesn't then I politely say that I'd be much faster and better at side pots if I was occasionally allowed to do one myself.

Ah sarcasm, is there no end to it's powers.

BigDragon

pam wrote:

I find ignoring the hell out of people, works. If it doesn't then I politely say that I'd be much faster and better at side pots if I was occasionally allowed to do one myself.

Ah sarcasm, is there no end to it's powers.

Had to laugh at the freeslog on Sat with Mick, Danielle and you at the table and Anto dealing. There was nearly full blown meltdown trying to sort out a sidepot....