In the middle of a serious situation.

LegacyUser

Ok, here go's:

I have 2 friends one male the other female, whom I both like and have a had a history of friendship over a few years.

Now I find myself stuck between them in a situation that is serious.

Fúck, I dont know how I can explain the complexitys of this one but Ill try.

First up, despite not having done a thing wrong, Im slap bang in the middle and have no choice but to proceed.........

First up the personality flaws involved:

The girl in question is cliniclly depressed and I know her to be a lyier when It suits her. She also posses a lack of awareness in relation to her actions and may be considered ditsy.

The guy in question has a lousy attitude to women in his speech and his Ideas on sex are somewhat dodgy.

Anyway, there were 4 of us on the piss earlier this year, and I ended up waking up the next morning with a memory block that began at about 2-4 oclock the night before. Anyway It transpired that the guy and girl in question had sex that previous night. By the time I woke up the next morning he was gone. Anyway I hung round for a while, chatting to the girl and the other person who was present. From what she said the guy in question was rough, she had black marks on her waist, but there was no indication of stress on her part and nothing seemed out of place.

Anyway on a few months and I hadnt seen either of them, just living my life minding my business. Im on a piss up with a mutual mate, who knows both but would be closer to the girl in question then the guy. Anyway He's says that the girl in question was saying that she was raped, and from his account seemed seriously depressed.

Now here's my position: I cannot in any reasonable way know who is lying, All I know is that I will hate the one who is either guilty of rape or the one who is guilty of slander and abusing something you dont joke about.

Now heres the kicker:
Far as I know the guy in question is unaware of the accusations or what has passed.
I came close to a fight with him recently in that when I brought up the subject of the other 2 that night, now problem was I was drunk, I percieved agression on his part when they were mention and I pushed his buttons to see if I could derive anything. Thing is tho being drunk is not the state to persue an investigation and from what I heard since I may have been the obnoxous one.

Now heres my dilimma:
I can let it sit and it will surface eventually in some form or other. I will encounter this guy a bit in my locality and holding back rarely works, especially when drink is involved.

He as the accused has the right to know of the alligation, however telling him may set in sequence a chain of events that will come back on me when Its found out I told him. It may also lead to friction with other muttual friends.

Fúcked if I do, Fúcked If I dont, and at this stage, I dont trust either of them.So far Im just thinking in legal terms such that if she was raped she should report it, and if he was slandered its up to him to clear his name by way of law. Funny thing is it wont happen and this issue will remain unresolved.

And i didnt do a Fúcking thing wrong!!!

I want advice and not opinion!
If this turn's in to an arguement between feminists and victim males all I can say is Fúck you and thanks for nothing.

Beruthiel

My opinion would be to say nothing and if you cannot drink and keep your mouth shut then stay away from him.
You have to ask yourself the question, how come she is telling people he did this to her and not gone to the police? It seems very odd to me that she is doing that.
Either way, until she comes to you and tells you herself, you are not obliged to jump in feet first on hearsay

Hobart

Saying nothing will just leave you as you are.

My advice would be to approach this head on with the bloke. Do not bring the subject up over drink. You seem to have a relationship with this bloke whereby he seems to be comfortable talking to you about his sexual preferences. Ask him out for a commmon interest, which does not involve drink. Could be golf, a game of football, whatever.

Start off the converstation, while looking him straight in the eye, and explain to him, slowly and clearly the situation you find yourself in. Emphasise to him that you are not accusing him of raping anybody. Explain to him that you are having this conversation for the benifit of both you and him. You could allude to the fact that you believe the female involved is, in your opinion, depressed and that you are concerned for her state of mind at the moment.

If you know this chap like you say you do, you should be able to quite quickly deduce whether he is being honest with you. Proceed with your relationship with him from there.

Secondly, if you are any sort of a real friend organise some help for the girl. As Ber pointed out, it is strange that she is crying wolf, but not involving the guards. However she would not be the first person to act in this manner. Whatever is bothering this girl, and it may be none of your business, she needs help. And pratical help. I don't mean that you "have to be there for her". You have to DO something for her. Get on the web. Find out who she can talk too. Make sure that you, or a close friend can accompany her. Make an appointment for her. Find out what drugs may help her situiation. But do stuff.

pickarooney

You don't necessarily have to take sides. Neither might be lying and neither might be telling the whole truth, or their two perceptions of the same event might differ. It might be a grey area in that she wasn't sure if she wanted to shag him or not, and only made up her mind afterwards, or she was too drunk to be fully aware of what was happening. You said yourself you had a memory block of a couple of hours.
If it wasn't 100% clear what exactly transpired, it might explain her reluctance to report it to the gardaí.
The only thing you should do is try and talk to both parties individually, as currently you only have the version of a third-party to go on.

Dr. Loon

StUcKiNmIdDlE wrote:

If this turn's in to an arguement between feminists and victim males all I can say is Fúck you and thanks for nothing.

That's a super way to get advice you twat!
Here's advice for you. Don't go drinking with the potential rapist. Don't go drinking with the obsessive liar. Leave them to sort it out.

Beruthiel

now Dr. Loon
you know that's not acceptable in here!
B

Dr. Loon

Beruthiel wrote:

now Dr. Loon
you know that's not acceptable in here!
B

I do, but stuck in the middle or whatever should also be able to request advice without abusing his potential advice giver people.

logic1

Be very careful here. I have a 'friend' who was going out with a girl for a few months everything was honky dory. They mutually broke up - afterwards she started telling all her friends he raped her and beat her which I know he didn't.

Turns out over time every learned one the girl was a compulsive liar who also suffered from bouts of depression.

She basically has lost all her friends through lying about them and anyone new that knows her stands her **** for about 6 weeks before ignoring her.

Basically if he did rape her then he should be dealt with. However you have to be 100% sure he did before you personally get involved.

Being drunk and confronting him in an aggresive manner won't get the answers you want. Either will trying to be deceitful and tricking an answer out of him.

Talk to him while totally sober in a non-threathening manner and let him know the "rumours" that you heard. Keep it simple and ask him his side. If you know him well as a friend you should be able to judge whether his being truthful or not.

.logic.

Frank Drebin

Beruthiel wrote:

My opinion would be to say nothing and if you cannot drink and keep your mouth shut then stay away from him.
You have to ask yourself the question, how come she is telling people he did this to her and not gone to the police? It seems very odd to me that she is doing that.
Either way, until she comes to you and tells you herself, you are not obliged to jump in feet first on hearsay

I agree!

ChRoMe

I've read the original post 3 times.... I still cant figure out what it has to do with the original poster??? Um it really seems to have nothing to do with you at all. So since you want advice. Its nothing to do with you so dont do anything about it simple.

"If this turn's in to an arguement between feminists and victim males all I can say is Fúck you and thanks for nothing" -- Err WTF

MistressPandora

StUcKiNmIdDlE wrote:

I want advice and not opinion!
If this turn's in to an arguement between feminists and victim males all I can say is Fúck you and thanks for nothing.

Right, you want advice and you come up with that. Oh bravo, well done.

I was gonna be nice and write some helpful advice, but basically, all I'm gonna say now is mind your own business and stay out of it.

so...very...tempted to say something incredibly nasty, but I'll keep my mouth shut. This time.

EKRIUQ

MistressPandora wrote:

Right, you want advice and you come up with that. Oh bravo, well done.

so...very...tempted to say something incredibly nasty, but I'll keep my mouth shut. This time.

I can see where the original poster is coming from, far too often when threads are started by people looking for advice people jump up on there high moral horse and instead of giving advice proceed to flame them for not doing the correct thing.

MistressPandora

But at least I didn't say anything nasty. Or feminist. I just gave some advice.

koneko

TIPPTOP wrote:

I can see where the original poster is coming from, far too often when threads are started by people looking for advice people jump up on there high moral horse and instead of giving advice proceed to flame them for not doing the correct thing.

But you can't come onto a bulletin board and tell people what not to say. This is the internet. People will give their opinion no matter what you say. It's what happens on the internet. That's not going to change.

Besides, if you want serious QUALIFIED advice, go see a therapist. You're asking a bunch of nerds on a message board to give you advice, but not their opinions. That's like asking the world not the turn, the fish not to swim, and the nerds not to.. ermm... nerd it up.

Beruthiel

lets keep it on topic boys and girls
B

MickFarr

Have you asked her why she has not told the police? Why is she telling her friends? and has she told anyone in her family yet?

Musashi

I actually work with a guy who was accused of Rape by his then girl friend.
She went to the Gardai next morning, he was hauled in the whole nine yards.
In the end she admitted that they'd had sex, gotten in a drunk arguement and broken up.She woke pissed and wanted a little payback so went to the guards.
Even though she owned up his life was amde hell for a week at the least and even now he is often referred to as "Tyson" behind his back.
If this girl feels she was raped she should go to the Gardai.If she won't, then why do you need to get involved,you don't know what in hell went on.I'd stay out of it as you are not really in a position to help anyone here.

Nasty_Girl

Stuckinthemiddle,

Just from reading your message you don't seem to be particularly close to either party or have a high opinion of them. I think perhaps you need to assess just how much these people mean to you, before even thinking about getting involved with their mess.
But if I were you I'd leave em to it, you'll never ever know what happened and even if you take sides you'll always wonder what really happened

LegacyUser

Posted by tipptop

I can see where the original poster is coming from, far too often when threads are started by people looking for advice people jump up on there high moral horse and instead of giving advice proceed to flame them for not doing the correct thing.

Dead right TippTop, To those who were more intrested in opining as opposed to advising, Just go back and show me where you helped.

Nasty_girl: There both good friends, but considering the situation, Im trying to be cold and objective about it all.


Beruthial, Hobart, Logic1, Pickaroony. Thank's for your input, Im hoping I dont meet the gent involved during christmas, but I do think the sober sit down may be the best way forward.
As for the girl involved, she's in dublin now and I havent had a chance to talk to her(comm problems), thats why Im the one holding the baby when It comes to telling the accused what he's accused off.

ShiverinEskimo

koneko wrote:

You're asking a bunch of nerds on a message board to give you advice, but not their opinions. That's like asking the world not the turn, the fish not to swim, and the nerds not to.. ermm... nerd it up.

I love this, i laughed a lot. **** on your own doorstep why don't you!!

I think i'm going to go with the people saying "say nothing". For one, you mentioned drink more times than I will over christmas. I think thats your first problem, your enitre story is based around drink..secondly, I think that whatever action you take is going to put you in a worse situation. If she is serious about this rape thing, as Beruthiel said, why is she telling people who are telling people who are telling people when she could go straight to the police and mount a complaint. Even if she makes a complaint now, i don't know how strong it will be considering she can now be accused of prepping her witnesses. If she is scared of going to the police and doesn't want to then telling people is only going to worsen her situation, sounds to me like raped or not, she is more concerned with turning people against him then actually seeking justice.
And if you approach him, he might go on the defensive and kick up a storm with her and even possibly you - I mean he will expect you to side with him, and if you don't he will probably take the "with me or against me" approach.

Leave it, its up to her to report it if she is serious about it. There is already too many people involved without some of them being the cops.

koneko

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

I love this, i laughed a lot. **** on your own doorstep why don't you!!

Pff, I'm a nerd too, so don't worry pet.

meditraitor

You sound like a decent enough skin so ignoring it will only eat you up, IMO the only thing to do is to contrive a situation were the 3 of yous get together and then throw your cards on the table,
One of your friends is has badly wronged and you are in a position to help, nobody wins here but at least the truth will be out... Thats when the healing begins

Empatia

I reckon you should talk to her first as the whole "rape allegation" might be just chinese whispers. Reason I say talk to her first as if she has the courage (often takes courage for women to report rape) to tell people then she would (i imagine) have the courage to tell the gardai, which makes me believe someone her words got changed. Also if you go and tell this guy theres rumours of him being accused for rape, and he finds out that he actually wasnt accused of it he will be mightly pissed with you.

If you want to get involved, figure out the hell is wrong with the girl first, if your suspicion of rape allegations is confirmed by her, then tell him, otherwise theres no reason to upset the chap over nothing.



Ohh and btw, this

StUcKiNmIdDlE wrote:

If this turn's in to an arguement between feminists and victim males all I can say is Fúck you and thanks for nothing.

had me in knots laughing, I was thinkin right before i finished reading your post that it could turn into one of those threads haha