Parliamentary Questions

Sparks

We know which TD poses them, but not who asks the TD to ask the question. Most of the time, this stuff does just vanish into the aether; and with the recent coverage, we'd expect a little activity allright.

meathstevie

Looks like the Deasy fella is assuming that Aherne wants to restrict handguns at all. Hasn't it really gotten into these boys brains yet that the overwhelming majority of handguns in legal ownership are target pistols of whom the majority most likely are either air pistols or smallbore rimfire pistols ?

Sparks

Answers up:

787. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number, type and calibre of firearms for which licences have been issued each year for the past five years up to 31 July 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22612/08]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I have requested this information from the Garda Commissioner and I will be in touch with the Deputy on the matter in the near future.

797. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of licences that have issued for legally held hand guns in each of the past five years. [22772/08]
798. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the plans he has to restrict the licensing of hand guns here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22773/08][/i]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 797 and 798 together.

I have been informed by the Garda authorities that there has been an increase in the number of handguns licensed in this jurisdiction since 2004 following a legal challenge taken on the temporary custody order made in 1972 by the then Minister for Justice. Prior to that it was generally not the practice to issue licenses for handguns.

I am informed by the Garda Commissioner that the number of licenses issued for handguns in the licensing years since the legal challenge is as follows:
Year(1 August to 31 July )|Total(Cumulative Number)
2007/08*|1701
2006/07|1367
2005/06|946
2004/05|305
* 2007/08 figures are operational, provisional and liable to change

I can inform the Deputy that the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 came into effect on 1st May 2008. It designates practically all handguns (except for pistols used in Olympic competitions) to be restricted firearms.

Sections 30 & 32 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 when commenced will mean that an application for a restricted firearm will have to be made to the Garda Commissioner, rather than the local Superintendent. He shall not grant the certificate unless satisfied that the applicant complies with a range of conditions such as having secure accommodation for the firearm, holds club membership, has a good reason for requiring such a firearm, and that the firearm is the only type appropriate for the purpose for which it is required.

I intend to bring the remaining parts of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 into force as quickly as possible and I will bring forward some technical amendments to enable their commencement in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which will be published in the coming weeks.

Sparks

Today's questions:

113. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the
increase in gun licences here in recent years; and if he will make a statement on the
matter. — Charles Flanagan. [27149/08]

There are a few others on gun crime levels and garda firearms training levels, but nothing relevant to the sport.

IRLConor

Would there be any TD willing to stand up and ask:

"To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to reveal the proportion of gun crime committed by the legal holder of the firearm used. If that statistic is not available would he make a statement explaining why he is bringing forward new firearms legislation in the absence of data to show that it would produce any tangible reduction in crime?"

or something similar? Does anyone know a TD who'd be willing to do that?

chem

I`ll ask my local TD Dermot Ahern. Oh wait he is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.:rolleyes:

It might be too hot at the mo for anyone to take up for us. Ah demoracy at work:(

Grizzly 45

Feck No!:eek: Get down to his clinic ASAP,and ask politely what exactly he means by this tightning up bit?Remind him also that he should be more concerned about appx 15k plus minus illegal firearms in the hands of criminals .Not 1,500 people and counting signed off by the Gardai as 99 % risk free.Or the fact that some Garda Superintendants seem to think that they are above the law of the land and exceed their authorithy in granting/refusing fACs.That has only cost the Irish taxpayer another est 4 million euros in wasted revenue by these Supers being dragged into the High court only to have 99% of the cases in favour of the gun applicant,plus six plus precedents,being weighted up by one,now pending Supreme court challange??How much more money does he care to waste in these times.
You have ewvery right to ask,and I,personally would be very grateful if you did.
IRL
I'l see if I can get somone to ask,maybe they will?

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'l see if I can get somone to ask,maybe they will?

You never know.

Anyone live in the constituency of a Justice/Crime spokesperson for any of the opposition parties?

FG - Charlie Flanagan
Lab - Sen. Dominic Hannigan (no use for asking in the Dáil, but maybe he could kick up a stink some other way)

Sparks

IRLConor wrote: »

Would there be any TD willing to stand up and ask:

"To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to reveal the proportion of gun crime committed by the legal holder of the firearm used. If that statistic is not available would he make a statement explaining why he is bringing forward new firearms legislation in the absence of data to show that it would produce any tangible reduction in crime?"

or something similar? Does anyone know a TD who'd be willing to do that?

You ready for the "WHAT?????" moment? Post number 20 on this thread:

*181. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of serious crimes (details supplied) using firearms which took place during 2003 or during the latest year for which figures are available; the number of these which were carried out with legally held firearms; the number with previously legally held firearms which had been stolen from their owners; and the number carried out with firearms which were not legally held at any time here. — Trevor Sargent. [2322/05]

Yup, the dreaded green party...
And the answer was:

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I wish to inform the Deputy that the number of offences recorded in 2003 in which a firearm was used are outlined in the following table:
2003:
Murders|20
Manslaughter|0
Robberies|251
Aggravated burglaries|62
Possession of a firearm|374
Discharge of a firearm|210
A breakdown of the offences by reference to whether or not the weapon used was legally held is not readily available and could only be obtained by a disproportionate expenditure of Garda time and resources.

Might be worth re-asking the question though...

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Feck No!:eek: Get down to his clinic ASAP,and ask politely what exactly he means by this tightning up bit?Remind him also that he should be more concerned about appx 15k plus minus illegal firearms in the hands of criminals .Not 1,500 people and counting signed off by the Gardai as 99 % risk free.Or the fact that some Garda Superintendants seem to think that they are above the law of the land and exceed their authorithy in granting/refusing fACs.That has only cost the Irish taxpayer another est 4 million euros in wasted revenue by these Supers being dragged into the High court only to have 99% of the cases in favour of the gun applicant,plus six plus precedents,being weighted up by one,now pending Supreme court challange??How much more money does he care to waste in these times.
You have ewvery right to ask,and I,personally would be very grateful if you did.
IRL
I'l see if I can get somone to ask,maybe they will?

Will do G45. Never really went into any TD's office and asked him anything. Just feel someone more in the know might be better suited and be able to ask what is needed to be asked. But ill do my best. Do you have to set a date for this kind of thing or can you just show up?

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

Might be worth re-asking the question though...

Yeah, well, I was thinking it would be something of a loaded question. He probably won't have the stats, so really the question is "Since you have no idea what proportion of gun crime is done with legally held firearms then how the hell do you propose to reduce gun crime with more legislation?".

Grizzly 45

chem wrote: »

Will do G45. Never really went into any TD's office and asked him anything. Just feel someone more in the know might be better suited and be able to ask what is needed to be asked. But ill do my best. Do you have to set a date for this kind of thing or can you just show up?

No trouble really Chem.Just pitch up at his clinic and wait to chat to him with all the other locals .If he wont/cant talk to you on the day get to make an appointment with him.
Dont be over awed by titles!This is one thing I find people get tounge tied about.He is a Minister!:eek: A personality!:eek:.So what?He puts on his trousers one leg at a time like the rest of us:D.IOW,talk to them as if it was your neighbour,etc etc.It works.

Sparks

Today:

*312. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of handgun
licences issued in each Garda division for each of the past five years. — John Deasy.
[27991/08]

Sparks

And the answer from yesterday:

113. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the increase in gun licences here in recent years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27149/08]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am informed by the Garda Commissioner that the number of licensed firearms has increased by approx 5% over the last five years. On the other hand, figures from the Central Statistics Office indicate that the population grew by over 8% between 2002 and 2006 so, while there has been a small increase in the number of licensed firearms in recent years, in real terms the number of firearms per capita has decreased.

The Deputy may be interested to know that our definition of what constitutes a firearm is among the most stringent to be found in any jurisdiction. Under the Firearms Act 1925, any device with a muzzle energy greater that one joule is regarded as a firearm. Many countries, for example, do not require a licence for a wide range of sporting firearms which are all treated as part of the firearms regime here.

Nevertheless since my appointment, I have been concerned at the increasing number of handguns being licensed, which follows a series of court decisions favourable to persons seeking licenses. Sections 30 and 32 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 provide for a new, stricter licensing regime for what are termed as ’restricted’ firearms, which include the vast majority of handguns. Certain technical amendments are necessary in relation to their implementation and work has been proceeding on these. I also directed that consideration be given to what further measures may be necessary to tighten up the legislation in this regard.

Following consultations with the Attorney General and the Garda Commissioner, I will bring forward proposals to the Cabinet with a view to introducing legislation early in the next Parliamentary session dealing with this matter. This will reflect the outcome of a short, intensive review of the relevant legislative provisions which I have directed take place.

While I am aware that the vast majority of persons with licensed firearms pursue their interests legitimately, public safety has to be the paramount consideration and I will take whatever action is necessary to ensure that that is put beyond doubt in our laws.

bunny shooter

There seems to be a few TD's jumping on the band wagon

Grizzly 45

Nothing new really there.Sweeping generalities on what will be done and no specifics.Gotta love this bit about "public saftey":rolleyes:.Go and bother the most law abiding cos they are an easy touch,and leave Mr drug dealer & co about their busisness importing drugs , AKS and RPGs on a weekly basis.
Minister,who do you think you are kidding????:rolleyes:

Sparks

IRLConor wrote: »

You never know.
Anyone live in the constituency of a Justice/Crime spokesperson for any of the opposition parties?
FG - Charlie Flanagan
Lab - Sen. Dominic Hannigan (no use for asking in the Dáil, but maybe he could kick up a stink some other way)

We might give Charlie a miss. From yesterday in the Dail during a question on gangland killings in Dublin:

Deputy Charles Flanagan: Regarding firearms, the recently announced proliferation of handguns is totally unacceptable. We have had 1,600 more handguns licensed last year. The Minister expresses his acknowledgement and thanks to a High Court judge for reminding him of that situation. Could I remind him that we had drawn his attention to that by way of parliamentary question on 28 May and 17 June, to which we received very little by way of positive response? How is it that people are leaving this city on a fairly regular basis for cities such as Prague in the Czech Republic to receive firearms training and returning to engage in the use of firearms on a regular basis? What is the Minister doing about this? We have put this question to the Minister in the past, and to his predecessor. Where are the targets, the results and the strategy?

Deputy Dermot Ahern: Regarding firearms, I did not need reminding by the judge or the Fine Gael Party because it was one of the issues I targeted when I became Minister a number of months ago. This is a serious issue and there has been a dramatic rise in the number of licences issued. Prior to this weekend, I intend to bring forward a technical decision because of some court decisions on the interpretation of the recent Act and regulations. There needs to a tightening up because we need to bring this legislation together to ensure there is no further proliferation of these firearms.

G17

to ensure there is no further proliferation of these firearms..


On a scale of one to not good, that's not good.

chem

Yea smells of a blanket ban to me:( I love the way they trow out licenced handgun figures as if it was the drug dealers who were getting the licences. What planet do these people live on

Grizzly 45

Not to mind the naiveity.:rolleyes::(.What does mr Flanagan want now,an internal passport wthin the EU to prevent people from travelling to places where firearms are allowed to be shot?????Shades of the X Y Z abortion cases spring to mind again.Got to wonder somtimes what color is the sky in the Ireland these people reside in???:eek:

bunny shooter

This has just got worse and by the weekend. Renewals due at end of month. :eek:

It was Autumn yesterday now it's end of week. The judgement in Kerry re man not firearm has just blown in our faces me thinks

meathstevie

Imagine some smug caracter giving a press conference very smugly stating that they've taken 1500 dangerous super turbo gti killer pistols out of circulation.

Well, you will have taken f a pistols out of circulation if you're thinking of pistols used as criminal tools because the pistols that look like they're going to be beyond the reach of law abiding sports shooters aren't the ones used in the criminal industry for starters.

Can any of these scaremonger so called politicians, judges or guards tell me how many members of the Limerick criminal families, Drimnagh gang members, Finglas bank robbers and whatever other known or suspected potentially dangerous criminal has a licenced firearm ? Even an old puny worn out break barrel airrifle with a bust pump will do, tell me please ! And than state your case for clamping down on licenced firearms in any shape or size.

In the meantime you could start and gain public confidence by getting tough on dangerous criminals and putting a few of the caracters any of their terrorised neighbours know what they're up to behind bars.

Or are you afraid to come down on the wrong side of the same PC brigade who wants to take away sports shooters pride and joy but is willing to cry foul on so called human rights grounds when the powers that be take the gloves of for a while when dealing with the scum of the earth ?

For goodness sake, use the powers of the state for sorting out problems and don't go looking for trouble where there isn't any !

chem

Email sent to Dermot Ahern TD

dermot@dermotahern.ie

From his own web site:

He got into politics through his football club and a campaign to secure sporting and community services.

Now is his fight still in him or has his passion died?

Just wondering. Anyone konw how many licenced pistols were here before the 70's ban?

Sparks

Answers from yesterday's question:

312. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of handgun licences issued in each Garda division for each of the past five years. [27991/08]

313. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of overall fire arm licences issued in each Garda division in each of the past five years; and the particular type of fire arms licences issued. [27992/08]

319. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of handgun licences issued in each Garda district for each of the past five years. [28139/08]

320. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of overall fire arms licences issued in each Garda district in each of the past five years; and the type of fire arms licences issued. [28140/08]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 312, 313, 319 and 320 together.

I have requested this information from the Garda Commissioner and I will be in touch with the Deputy on the matter as soon as it comes to hand.

This stuff would be handy to know so I'm emailing Deasy to ask for a copy of it...

chem

If most of the handguns turn out to be .22 it would be a good thing:cool: not so many of them evil 9mm about after all:eek:

BornToKill

I think the fine distinctions between .22 and 9mm is lost on the general public. The debate and media coverage is about the number of handguns rather than the type.

chem

BornToKill wrote: »

I think the fine distinctions between .22 and 9mm is lost on the general public. The debate and media coverage is about the number of handguns rather than the type.

I dont think so BTK (not to fond of the name by the way) all I see is the fear of the 9mm police/mill type handgun. I even know a super who will licence .22 pistols and not 9mm. Even the government realise .22 pistols do not need to be on the restricted list.

I do understand your point alright. But .22 has a long history in this country. Everyone has known someone with a .22 and alot even fired the round. So alot of people have 1st hand experience with it. Its the fear of something new and unknown. Most people only know of 9mm and .45 from the movies and we all know how Hollywood makes them look.

BornToKill

chem wrote: »

I dont think so BTK (not to fond of the name by the way) ... Everyone has known someone with a .22 and alot even fired the round.

You don't have to like the name. Neither does 'Bunny Shooter' who finds it silly. Irony?

Anyway, you have to be kidding if you actually believe that everyone knows someone with a .22. Maybe in shooting circles, sure. But this debate is not about shooters discussing and deciding the future. This is about public perception and public unease hence Primetime and Morning Ireland and all the rest.

Repeating 'All weapons are dangerous' like a mantra on the most listened to radio programme in the country is not reassuring anyone. No-one out there cares about whether the handguns are .177, 9mm, .4, .22 or whatever. The only point is that there are suddenly 1,700 of them and growing fast.

chem

BornToKill wrote: »

This is about public perception and public unease hence Primetime and Morning Ireland and all the rest.

Repeating 'All weapons are dangerous' like a mantra on the most listened to radio programme in the country is not reassuring anyone. No-one out there cares about whether the handguns are .177, 9mm, .4, .22 or whatever. The only point is that there are suddenly 1,700 of them and growing fast.

Think your putting the cart before the horse there BTK. I dont remember crowds marching the streets of dublin calling for handgun bans, then primetime picking up on it and the rest of the media following the public.

No. Im sure not many people even knew that handguns were been licenced until primetime and the papers started telling them. They also put the slant on the story by including criminal shooting stats in the same story.

You have even been caught up in the media miss information. 1,700 licenced handguns and growing fast? There were alot more licenced handguns in Ireland before the ban in the 70`s. And did you ever hear of much gun crime in Ireland in the 70`s? 1,700 handguns is notting over four years.

chem

Born to kill. I see your in Dundalk? Im close to dundalk. Id like to invite you to the range some day if you were interested? Id show you saftey 1st and 2nd and 3rd then I will show you how to hold the rifle and how to opperate it. Then we might get in afew shots. Its up to you!