Just sold my BMW and .......

ED-209

I just sold my German , non-registered, leaky radiator, blown head gasket, dodgy engine mountings BMW 316 and ....


The guy just drove it away !!!. It has no number plates and is not taxed or insured and he didn't even have a licence that covered driving the car.

Both myself and the girlfriend stood there in awe when he told us he was driving it home. We had expected him to turn up with a truck or something.

I even told him that it was very illegal but he was a cocky 21 year old and didn't care.

We gave him the papers and the keys and what I need to know is can WE get into trouble if he is stopped by the Gardai ??

Silvera

Bit of a grey area seeing that it is unregistered.

However, I would guess that the car legally became his once he paid you for it.
(It probably would have been a good idea to get/issue a receipt, for your own peace of mind - as is the case when selling ANY vehicle)

Silvera

.........as a matter of interest,

Did you drive it in Ireland with no plates, or did you just remove the German plates before you sold it ?

ED-209

Silvera wrote:

.........as a matter of interest,

Did you drive it in Ireland with no plates, or did you just remove the German plates before you sold it ?

I drove it in Ireland for 5 months (max 6 months legally) and then took the plates off.
We deregistered the car a couple of weeks ago by sending them back to Germany.
So essentially it doesn't exist anywhere apart from on the registration papers and it's not currently registered to anyone.

Silvera

fair enough.

I hope all turns out ok for you re the car.

Canis Lupus

The criminals used an unregistered BMW to escape from the scene, Gardai are calling for witnesses.

mike65

Canis Lupus wrote:

The criminals used an unregistered BMW to escape from the scene, Gardai are calling for witnesses.

ROFL! Thats a point. I'd keep an ear to local radio news over the next few days...

Mike.

Seth Brundle

maybe pop into your local station and just mention it to them that you sold it and the new buyer has the paperwork, etc. Just cover your back!

Fudger

ED-209 wrote:

I just sold my German , non-registered, leaky radiator, blown head gasket, dodgy engine mountings BMW 316 and ....


The guy just drove it away !!!. It has no number plates and is not taxed or insured and he didn't even have a licence that covered driving the car.

Both myself and the girlfriend stood there in awe when he told us he was driving it home. We had expected him to turn up with a truck or something.

I even told him that it was very illegal but he was a cocky 21 year old and didn't care.

We gave him the papers and the keys and what I need to know is can WE get into trouble if he is stopped by the Gardai ??

How responsible of you.......

unkel

Fudger wrote:

How responsible of you.......

Common, gave ED-209 a break! He told him it was illegal. Adult people are responsible for their own behaviour

ambro25

kbannon wrote:

maybe pop into your local station and just mention it to them that you sold it and the new buyer has the paperwork, etc. Just cover your back!

Given the investigative prowess of the Gardai transpiring from Boards.ie posts,
do this just so they come straight knocking on his door if anything wrongful is committed with the Beemer, and cop' him as "accessory to (whatever)"

Fudger

unkel wrote:

Common, gave ED-209 a break! He told him it was illegal. Adult people are responsible for their own behaviour

Some adults should have more copon and a sense of civic duty. Thanks to a certain someone, there is one more (plenty already) idiot on the road, in a faulty car by the sounds of it with no insurance and as discribed this cockey fella most likely isn't going to bother with insurance that has the potential to crash into me or you or god forbid knock someone down.

Just making a point of it.

rander00

What year was it. And how much did he give ya out of interest?

ambro25

Fudger wrote:

Some adults should have more copon and a sense of civic duty. Thanks to a certain someone, there is one more (plenty already) idiot on the road, in a faulty car by the sounds of it with no insurance and as discribed this cockey fella most likely isn't going to bother with insurance that has the potential to crash into me or you or god forbid knock someone down.

Just making a point of it.

Good one (point).

Seth Brundle

Fudger wrote:

Some adults should have more copon and a sense of civic duty. Thanks to a certain someone, there is one more (plenty already) idiot on the road, in a faulty car by the sounds of it with no insurance and as discribed this cockey fella most likely isn't going to bother with insurance that has the potential to crash into me or you or god forbid knock someone down.

Just making a point of it.

If the sale was made before ED-209 was aware that the buyer was going to drive off then there isn't much he can o about it really!

Fudger

kbannon wrote:

If the sale was made before ED-209 was aware that the buyer was going to drive off then there isn't much he can o about it really!

Really.....??.... so this cockey fella with no insurance, licence, or as described care in the world would take our car selling pal to the small claims court for not honouring a said contract agreement for the purchase of a non irish registered imported car with no tax that isn't road worthy ??

Seth Brundle

A car does not need to be licenced, road worthy or anything else if it is sold as seen. It was the buyers responsibility to ensure the car was removed/collected or whatever legally.

Fudger

kbannon wrote:

A car does not need to be licenced, road worthy or anything else if it is sold as seen. It was the buyers responsibility to ensure the car was removed/collected or whatever legally.

Look i think the point is being missed here. Our car selling pal is worried that if something happens with our cockey fella he (car seller) will take the wrap. My point is he should of thought of that before he decided to sell this no registered un-taxed car. He should have had the cop-on and used his judgement to think, "wait a sec this is a bit dodgy, a cockey 21 year old with no insurance or licence wants to buy my car". If this happens (i.e. something bad with our cockey pal), which i would wholly hope doesnt for our car sellers sake, i would doubt the general public, courts or any young drivers association like MIJAG is going to have any sympathy for him and then thus law abiding young drivers insurance rising again through no fault of their own.
To get to the bone of this issue, unless a change of ownership form (whatever it is called) has been done out for the car to the cockey fella our car selling pal will still be the registered owner but because its not irish registered in the first place god only knows what will happen. I'm sure though if the relevant authorities wanted to track down who is the registered owner they can take serial numbers from the car in question and trace it back and what do they find but our car selling pals name on some german database with the plates he posted back. I am no Garda but i wouldn't think that would be hard to do. Our car selling pal was looking for opionions and i am giving my two cents.

ED-209

He had paid for it and then came to collect it yesterday evening.

As I said before I thought he would bring a truck with him.

Just want to get a definitive answer as to where my responsibilty ends after I have given him the keys.

Fudger

ED-209 wrote:

He had paid for it and then came to collect it yesterday evening.

As I said before I thought he would bring a truck with him.

Just want to get a definitive answer as to where my responsibilty ends after I have given him the keys.

In normal circumstances i.e. a registered irish car and with the appropiate ownership papers being completed the answer is clear cut, (because i have bought and sold a few cars myself so i have an idea how it works here) but with this whole de-registered imported car i personally would feel a bit wary about the whole thing. Maybe someone on boards has had a similiar experience and could advise you or do some research about such legal issues. I wouldn't wobble down to the garda station just yet proclaiming that you sold an imported un registered car to some uninsured cockey 21 year old without a care in the world. They might not look to favourable on you.

Our cockey pal could have been playing the hard man though and is driving around with his granny in the passenger seat in his new shiney insured legally registered BMW. Its the unkown that would worry me.

Fudger

have a look at the below the revenue commissioners are the boys to have a look at. It hasn't got the answers you need on this page but it may point you in the right direction.

http://www.revenue.ie/services/vrt/vrt.htm

unkel

Fudger wrote:

Our cockey pal could have been playing the hard man though and is driving around with his granny in the passenger seat in his new shiney insured legally registered BMW

LOL

Your point is sound, Fudger, although there is only so much you can do...

Gurgle

Fudger wrote:

My point is he should of thought of that before he decided to sell this no registered un-taxed car.

Oh come on, If its an unregistered untaxed car, wtf was he meant to do ?
Refuse to sell it based on his opinion of the buyer ?

The same cocky 21 yo could just have easily bought a registered taxed car with cash and a false name/address if he wanted it for nefarious purposes, or if he didn't plan to insure it.

Most likely he just wanted to save a few quid on a truck, while he brought it to where he plans to do it up.

ED-209, drop an e-mail to the gardai just to let them know the car changed hands (give the chassis ID if you have it) and that the new owner will take care of registration.

Fudger

Gurgle wrote:

Oh come on, If its an unregistered untaxed car, wtf was he meant to do ?
Refuse to sell it based on his opinion of the buyer ?

The same cocky 21 yo could just have easily bought a registered taxed car with cash and a false name/address if he wanted it for nefarious purposes, or if he didn't plan to insure it.

Most likely he just wanted to save a few quid on a truck, while he brought it to where he plans to do it up.

ED-209, drop an e-mail to the gardai just to let them know the car changed hands (give the chassis ID if you have it) and that the new owner will take care of registration.

Yea he could have refused, what is mr cockey going to do about it ? Sue him ?! :rolleyes:
Yes the same cockey fella could have bought a registered car and given a false name and address but at least ED-209 would have the paperwork to back him up. Thats the point he has no paper work !

Read the Revenues website, the car is supposed to be registered as soon as it enters the country unless he is a visitor on a short term stay. If you got a problem with that email them I am sure they would value your opinion.

Victor

Eh, I suspect you might have some responsibility regarding VRT. Have a chat with the Revenue.

ED-209

Victor wrote:

Eh, I suspect you might have some responsibility regarding VRT. Have a chat with the Revenue.

Mmmmm, can't see myself doing that somehow.

Conversation:

Me: Hello is this the revenue comissioners ??
Rev: Yes.
Me: I brought a car into the country, sold it and I would like to give you all my hard earned cash.
Rev: Sounds good, send us in a cheque for X amount.
Me: Oh yeah and I stiffed you on my tax payment for last year , can I send you in more money.
Rev: Hang on, I'll send an auditor out to your house.


You can see where this is going ........


Big can of worms = not prepared to open .

Victor

ED-209 wrote:

Mmmmm, can't see myself doing that somehow.

Well, phone up with think German accent and speak hypotheticly.

ED-209

Victor wrote:

Well, phone up with think German accent and speak hypotheticly.

No way man, those guys can smell a tax scam 20 miles away.

Gurgle

So someone bought a car with no documents.
If he didn't want it for road use, it doesn't need documents.

I assume its RHD ?
And he got it cheap ?

Used to be a passtime for me & my mates to buy a scrapheap and rally it to bits in a field (yes a field we owned, not the green in a council estate). Its kind of a legitimate form of joyriding.

Registration/Tax/NCT/Insurance/Roadworthy car are not required.

You have to pay all kinds of taxes to register an imported car for road use but not for just having it in the country.

As such, IMHO you have no more responsibility for this car than if it was a TV.
Relax!

ED-209

Gurgle wrote:

So someone bought a car with no documents.
If he didn't want it for road use, it doesn't need documents.

I assume its RHD ?
And he got it cheap ?

Used to be a passtime for me & my mates to buy a scrapheap and rally it to bits in a field (yes a field we owned, not the green in a council estate). Its kind of a legitimate form of joyriding.

Registration/Tax/NCT/Insurance/Roadworthy car are not required.

You have to pay all kinds of taxes to register an imported car for road use but not for just having it in the country.

As such, IMHO you have no more responsibility for this car than if it was a TV.
Relax!

Thanks Gurgle,

*/ Now where's that rep button

Fudger

Gurgle wrote:

So someone bought a car with no documents.
If he didn't want it for road use, it doesn't need documents.

On Private property, this is true but how does ED 209 know if it will be used on private property ? ED 209 is looking at the worst possible situation, that is for road use, why would he post this topic if not, thats the point. *yawn*

Gurgle

Fudger wrote:

On Private property, this is true but how does ED 209 know if it will be used on private property ?

Because as he sold it unregistered, it was for use on private property only. It could be wanted for spare parts, for the dogs to sleep in, a lawn ornament.
Do rally cars need registration?

Its the new owner's responsibility to register it if it needs registration.

Fudger wrote:

ED 209 is looking at the worst possible situation, that is for road use, why would he post this topic if not, thats the point. *yawn*

Because he was concerned about it.
And we're here to put his mind at ease

Fudger

Gurgle wrote:

And we're here to put his mind at ease

hmmmmmmmmm............. once again i think your ideas on this are a bit strange, but each to there own. If putting someones mind at easy is telling them what they want to hear even though there is a possible very bad side to the situation I think it was pointless to ask the question in the first place.

By the way unless the rally car is being towed on a trailer or in the back of a truck on a public road it has to be registered.