What would you do?

Iago

You're dealt K9s in late position, 7 players at the table and it's folded around to you.

Blinds are 200-400 and you have 15K in chips

What would you do preflop?

You raise to 1200 preflop, SB Folds BB Calls.

Presuming you're still in play at the flop

Flop is K 3 4 rainbow

It's checked to you, what play do you make?

You bet 1200, BB flat calls

As far as the Turn

Turn is 5

It's checked to you again, what's the action?

You bet 1200, BB raises to 2400

River is drawn

River is 6 no flush available

BB goes All-In for 6.5K

What do you do?

Please comment without reading the spoilers and then comment on the spoilers if you like. Although if you keep your spoiler answers in spoilers as well I'd appreciate it. Want to get an unbiased opinion from as many people as possible

karlh

I'd fold unless in the big blind, K9 is a crap hand.

Even then, if you don't hit yer flush/draw on the flop yer on yer own pal. If you play K9 to hit a K, then why not play K2?

karlh

which, incidentally, would have given you a straight

dsab

I would have called pre-flop. I would not have raised at all. If BB or SB would have decided to Raise, I would have folded.

Although it very much depends on who is my opponent. There are some players, I would have put all in with that hand on the flop. But this would be some of the specialists (always raisers / Stealing Pots) I know, and never someone I know nothing about.

I think thses things are always difficlut to judge, as every game and every table is different.

careca

I would prob flat call and muck to any raise. The problem with this type of hand is hitting some bit of the flop (as in the example). If you hit the flop well (two of your suit or a pair of nines come) then you're ok, or if you miss the flop completely you'll get away from the hand cheap. However the example is probably the worst case scenario. Any of the blinds could have K with higher kicker, or two small pair. I would be very worried about a player staying with you and would certainly muck after the river bet.

BigDragon

careca wrote:

I would prob flat call and muck to any raise. The problem with this type of hand is hitting some bit of the flop (as in the example). If you hit the flop well (two of your suit or a pair of nines come) then you're ok, or if you miss the flop completely you'll get away from the hand cheap. However the example is probably the worst case scenario. Any of the blinds could have K with higher kicker, or two small pair. I would be very worried about a player staying with you and would certainly muck after the river bet.

What he said.

Value in seeing a flop then get out as soon as you get nothing or it costs you to see out the hand. It does depend on the person you're playing etc,etc,etc.

Iago

karlh wrote:

which, incidentally, would have given you a straight

the idiot straight, almost as idiotic as K9 I guess

anyway

He had been playing pretty loose stealing pots and it was in a freeroll, and the first prize was only €200 or something. I actually felt confident with my K all the way to the river and then chickened out and folded. I didn't think he had a K at all, maybe a PP but a low one, as the low cards kept coming out I was getting more and more worried.

I think my biggest problem with online play is the time limit in which you have to make a decision. Offline I'd of thought about it some more and may or may not have called his bet on the river, based on his previous play and the angle of the moon shining in through the sitting room window!!

He declared his hand after I folded, AJo to give him A high. Ballsy/Stupid considering he didn't even have a flush draw to aim for, so I should have called at the end. Went out about 6 hands later when I called an all-in and 77 hit a 7 on the flop to beat my QQ

DeVore

I'd slap myself for raising with K9 preflop (unless it was supposed to be a bluff raise).
Call. Raise 600. Call. Call Showdown/Fold is how I would play this hand most likely.

DeV.

Hitman Actual

I'm inclined to just call this preflop, although I might fold it in the tougher games. If I stay in and hit the K on the flop, I'll take one stab at it and then slow down if called, hoping it's checked down to the end. Any more betting on the turn and river and I'm gone... you might be up against a draw (which might actually have gotten there with the 5 on the turn), but other than that there's there's not too many hands that you can beat here.

You don't mention your opponents stack size, but I think the 1200 bet on the flop was probably a bit weak... maybe 2500 would have closed it down?

Hitman Actual

Iago wrote:

Ballsy/Stupid considering he didn't even have a flush draw to aim for, so I should have called at the end.

I wouldn't beat myself up over this, I don't see how you could call the all-in here.

Iago

DeVore wrote:

I'd slap myself for raising with K9 preflop (unless it was supposed to be a bluff raise).
Call. Raise 600. Call. Call Showdown/Fold is how I would play this hand most likely.

DeV.

I was hoping the blinds would fold tbh, although I was also watching football at the time, so maybe my concentration wasn't what it should have been!

lenny_leonard wrote:

I wouldn't beat myself up over this, I don't see how you could call the all-in here.

I'm not, I should have bet bigger on the flop if I was going to bet at all, he didn't beat me on this hand, I beat myself

kencleary

Arrggghh some horrible plays recommended here. Why on earth would you flat call with K 9? Its pretty close to being a trash hand - if you're going to be playing it from late position you need to be raising it and driving people off hands. Depends on the stage of the tournament, stacks etc but if I feel like playing K9 i'm going to play it fast & aggressive.

Worse play though is flat calling then min raising or checking or calling on the flop. Lets face it K9 doesn't hit much harder than a King and two rags on the board. If you're calling pre-flop with it what else are you hoping for? two pair/straight/flush? you'll see a lot of flops before you get one of those!

Hitman Actual

kencleary wrote:

Arrggghh some horrible plays recommended here. Why on earth would you flat call with K 9? Its pretty close to being a trash hand - if you're going to be playing it from late position you need to be raising it and driving people off hands. Depends on the stage of the tournament, stacks etc but if I feel like playing K9 i'm going to play it fast & aggressive.

Worse play though is flat calling then min raising or checking or calling on the flop. Lets face it K9 doesn't hit much harder than a King and two rags on the board. If you're calling pre-flop with it what else are you hoping for? two pair/straight/flush? you'll see a lot of flops before you get one of those!

Well, with blinds at 200/400 and a stack-size of 15K, I don't mind seeing a cheap flop with K9s, purely for flush draw value... you're in good position to play it if you flop the draw. You don't really want to see a K, but when you hit you might as well bet if it's checked to you.

If you raise are you trying to steal the blinds? I don't see much point considering the blind size and your stack size.

And I agree with the trash-hand sentiment... like I said I probably will fold in the tougher games.

Hectorjelly

spoilers >>>

This is actually more complicated question that it first seems. First of K9s is a bad hand, and ordinarily should be an autofold. The only situation in which it becomes playable is in a deep stacked game with plenty of limpers all ready. That said, I think under those circumstances in a tournament, if the tournament is playing pretty tight, then you can profitably play almost any two cards in that position. You can either limp in and bet the flop regardless, or you can raise and take it from there.

Since you did raise you need to bet the pot on the flop, when you bet 1200 you let him in cheap. He was probably calling hoping to hit an ace. Your turn bet is pointless, each bet should be in relation to the size of the pot. If you had of bet either the turn or the flop properly, it would of been much harder for him to bluff you, basically nobody is going to commit that much of their chips without a real hand.

Once the river comes I dont see how you can call the bet, the only hand you beat is a bluff.

Lafortezza

You were fine to raise preflop, just the blinds left and you've a slightly better than average hand. The blinds need a better hand to call a raise than you need to make the raise.

You under bet the flop by a long way. The pot is 2600 and you bet 1200, bit of a value bet and if you wanted to end it there after hitting your top pair then you should bet 3000 or so.
Any less and you're tempting someone with a draw or overcards to peel one.

One thing I've noticed recently is that if you raise preflop and then bet the flop people tend to stay in because its quite common to raise preflop and bet the flop no matter what comes up. You're more hoping that your opponents missed instead of you hitting. That could be why the AJ guy called the flop.